Justice Hayes calls us a "sinking ship"
Seems Mr. Hayes has dropped us and has probably burned his bridge. Maybe he is just afaird of competition with Dee Hart (Sam Webb has a strong gut feeling).
No worries, it'll take care of itself.
It must take a lot for a kid that grew up loving Michigan and publicy said he would have committed had the season gone better.. oh wait, there's that guy in EL. Peace Justice.
He did some scout interviews on May 12 and April 21 and had some pretty good things to say about Michigan. I wonder if he said that because the coaches have moved on and he's a little salty about it, or if someone *cough* MSU, has been in his ear about UofM
If it were negative recruiting as you seem to believe, why would it just start now, asopposed to months ago? Wins takes away the "sinking ship".
someone knows when he doesn't have the goods to win a job with Michigan....
He can come to Michigan and risk having a dismal 5-7 season or go to Northwestern and have an expected 5-7 season. I guess it's all up to him.
Maybe Mr Hayes was fucking around on youtube and happened to see this...
If I'm a high school teen-ger, would I rather go to the school coming off consecutive bowl games, including one on Jan 1 or go to a school that's 8-16 during that time.
Frankly, we look like a sinking ship to the outside world. We'll see more of this until we start winning.
The kid is being somehwat practical. And, he wont be the only recruit to feel this way.
and it's reasonable to think so. But why 1) be a douche and say this and 2) proclaim like (not love) of Michigan and the staff a week earlier?
I'm sure we have over 10 (that's a guess and it's likely more) players who would have given M a more serious look if we had been better last year and were projected to be even this year. It's nothing new.
Because he is a teenager and taking what any recruit says in those boiler plate Q/A's with recruiting reporters at face value is like buying into the accuracy of the assorted political chain mails that get circulated.
Just gotta prove him wrong. Plain and simple.
Ya know, had he said he was interested in going to Ohio State, Penn State, Alabama, Virginia Tech, hell, anywhere that is a consistent performer, but Northwestern?
I'll take my sinking ship of a program over your tiny purple sloop any day.
A tiny purple sloop that played in consecutive New Years Day Bowls. While we went 8-16. He thinks Michigan is down. Is that so unreasonable?
Down does not equal sinking ship. A sinking ship was Syracuse under Robinson. Washington under Ty. A sunk ship is Wazzou. He didn't say down, he said sinking ship.
If Justice wants to make his decision off of two years of football, hey, by all means, go for it. He wouldn't be the first and he won't be the last.
He used a cliched phrase. You're parsing it way too much.
Maybe. If he said, "Hey, the program is down, it'll probably come back, but for now it's not for me," you probably wouldn't have this thread. A thousand players have already said that. But it sounds as if he is taking an intentional shot at the program.
It probably doesn't matter. I agree with Magnus that there are other guys that we should want more than Justice.
He just shotened it to a sinking ship. Sinking ships can also be restored.
We do look like a sinking ship to the outside world, on many fronts.
W's are the 'tussin that will cure those ills.
The more the outside world downgrades Michigan's players and coaches, the more likely it is that they'll all have a gigantic chip on their shoulders by the time UConn rolls into town.
I wouldn't assume Hart is a lock, either, Sam's gut notwithstanding.
What we have here is a failure to communicate. what looks like a sinking ship is actually a nuclear submarine armed with nuclear warheads in the process of submerging and setting it sights on Pasadena.
Almost spit out the beer I was in the middle of drinking!
Now, now , Justice don't be angry because the coaches know Demetrius Hart is better than you. Hopefully we face him sometime in his college career so he can see how supposedly "bad" we are.
what does that make his current top choice, Northwestern? See yo on the field , Justice.
1) Can you blame him for calling us a sinking ship? We went from 11-2 to 9-4 to 3-9 to 5-7.
2) Regardless of what he says about Michigan, be better than calling him a "douche." Seriously. He hasn't even finished his junior year in high school. Just because he doesn't like your favorite school doesn't mean you should call him names.
3) I've been saying this all along, but there are several running backs I'd take over Hayes. He's really not that great. He's probably about the 5th or 6th best player in the state, and we have other, better running backs on our radar. Guys who are better, IMO: Demetrius Hart, Savon Huggins, Andrew Buie, Malcolm Crockett, Mike Bellamy, Mike Blakely.
and Hayes is definitely still an amateur. Thank you for saying this, Magnus
We certainly DO look like a sinking ship and we'll have to prove we can bail ourselves out and weigh anchor.
I like that Mike Bellamy character you mentioned...don't know how interested Michigan is in him, though.
a genious or anything but isn't the point of a sinking ship that it goes deeper or "sinks" as time progresses? Going from 3 wins to 5 seems to be more of an upswing than a down.
Pending sanctions and a coach on the hot seat might have something to do with the "sinking ship" comment, too.
Going with 4.5. Conference record needs to be reversed.
He could be a Northwestern Wildcat or a Wisconsin Badger, and I will still confer upon him honorary Little Brother status.
Since we went from 3-9 two years ago to 5-7 last year, doesn't that mean we sunk at one point and are on our way back up to parascope depth so we can start torpedoing the shit out of the Big 10?
All things being equal, you wouldn't ordinarily make a comment such as this unless there's some bitterness brewing or an ulterior motive at play.
Plus, if he heads to a Big 10 school, you can bet the "sinking ship" comment will come back to haunt him BIG TIME.
Trashing teenagers is cool. How would you feel if it were your kid?
it is probably teenagers that are trashing him.
I'd be shocked to know I had a 17 year old son.
but I don't believe in making it a better place for our children's children. Because I don't think children should be having sex."
~ Jack Handey
He is 17. He doesn't want to come here. Some grown up who wants him to go to another school probably said, "don't go to M, they are a sinking ship." He believed it. He immaturely (because, as mentioned, he is 17) repeated it in a text.
I know some very experienced business people and attorneys who put a lot worse things into email. They are not 17. Annoying that he said it, but who cares.
...Hayes, if he would agree to publicly name any rival coaches who told him, "Michigan is a sinking ship."
...but I wouldn't put it past other schools to plant the "sinking ship" seed in his head. I definitely wouldn't be surprised if some school in EL (cough, cough) said something like that to him. I hope he goes to NW; it would be better than seeing MSU benefit from negative recruiting.
"The ship is rising..."
You say this largely because you're a Michigan fan. It's certainly understandable if outsiders consider Michigan's ship to be sinking or, at least, floating aimlessly.
I think he says it from the 3-9 to 5-7 idea, or the whole, having two sophomore QBs instead of two freshmen QBs. Or the OL.
Obvious counterpoint, losing the two best defensive players. Obvious cat is obvious. Point being, you could say we're rising and base it off of some solid non-fan like stuff.
Right. And we're also announcing self-imposed sanctions in a few days while our coach is on the hot seat.
The point? It can be seen both ways.
No reason to get all upset Mr Hayes you will be getting a fine education from North Western. If you think Michigan is a sinking ship get ready for a ride in the HMS Titanic of football your North Western Wilcats. Don't get me wrong NW is a fine program with many national championships and all americans + Big 10 titles and Mike Wilbon right?
Two things stand out here. 1) Deeeeeeee 2) Just win Michigan so we can strike these Mother F'ers out I mean up .... Damn Major League quote popped into my head there.
"North Western"? Really?
Agreed, we just need to win and there are other RB recruits out there. No big deal.
Is it really unreasonable to think, from the outside, that our program is down?
It doesn't excuse a stupid and unneccesary public statement, but if program stability is high on his list among recruiters, he's not insane for favoring NU. Say what you will about the team's history, but Fitzgerald will be there until he's retired or dead.
If I had to lay down money right now, I'd guess Rodriguez will have his team winning this season, competing for championships in 2011, and secured for as long as he wants it by the start of the 2012 season. But then I'm a fan, not a junior trying to make a huge life decision with imperfect and biased information coming at him from a dozen directions. RR is, sadly, on a hotseat this season.
When you add in the depth chart dimension, I can see a good case that NU is a better fit for him: would you rather compete with Shaw, Smith, Cox, Toussaint, Hopkins and (fingers crossed) Hart, or Arby Fields and Scott Concannon? NU's current system has a history of producing big numbers backs (Damien Anderson, Noah Herron, Mike Kafka oh wait) but lacks an obvious star at the moment.
Dumb thing to say out loud, still.
I don't follow recruiting as closely as a lot of you, but I don't recall ever hearing a recruit talk disparagingly about a program publicly. That seems like a strange move - he may regret it, it may have just slipped out - but it would be good for him to learn that stuff like that inevitably comes back and bites you in the ass.
BEST POST OF THREAD. THANKS. GOOD THREAD TOO. SORRY FOR THE CAPS. AND, REMEMBER TO KICK IT OVER... ALOT OF PEOPLE WON'T GET NO JUSTICE TONIGHT.
oops.
of this is whether this is the beginning of a trend. You can view Hayes's opinion of UM as an outlier or as a hint of things to come. I would not be surprised if, as time goes by, we start to see the effects of having a losing record on recruiting in a more pronounced way. And losing will continue to have this amplifying, positive feedback effect on recruiting. Which is why RR has to change perceptions this season, why he has to make a statement (not some 7-6 or 6-7 season). If not....well, someone will have a tough decision to make.