Last part. Kid isn't leaving Cali.
JuJu Smith said he thinks Michigan is a great school, but not a fit for him. Cancelled his visit said losses caused them to drop on his list
— Tom VanHaaren (@TomVH) November 5, 2013
he watched DG get pummeled Saturday and said 'no thanks'
I don't disagree with this, but if your argument is based on bad losses and you still have USC on your list, me thinks that location is a bigger factor than performance on the field.
He is going to end up at USC. I think Lane Kiffin being fired was actually better for his recruitment.
It's not good that's for sure. Perhaps just a coincidence in timing but the obvious concern after a game last Saturday is recruiting fallout. I really hope this isn't a harbinger of things to come.
I suppose it's my belief that things are not going to get better anytime soon and that really bothers me. I have watched Michigan football for a long, long time (I even recruited Northern Ohio for the team in the early 90's when Moeller was the HC) and I'm deeply concerned with where this team is headed.
Your point is well taken though and I'll try and work on finding positives even if they are very hard to find right now.
You mean headed towards having more than something like 3 seniors on the team? Yeah, that'll probably be terrible for us.
If you're ok with waiting until 2015 for a good win/loss record then that's the
difference between us right now I guess. I see three more losses this season with a royal ass-kicking by OSU on the way and next year all of our "red letter" games are on the road. And to date we haven't exactly performed well away from AA. So that means two more years for a chance at a B1G title and that saddens me.
What really gets me is people writing a team off for season that is a year away. For the love of God, nick Saban went 6-6 his first year, not a lot of fans gave them a chance for his second season... He won a national championship, I'm not saying that we are going to win it all next year, in fact I wouldn't put money on it, but are you really calling next year a lost season because of what happens this year?
Look at ND during their run to the NC game last year, they should have lost 4 of those games, they didn't. The fact is no one knows what is going to happen next year, if they did they would be one rich person.
What the hell does Nick Saban have to do with our situation. That guy is the best coach in all of college football. Saying he had trouble his first year before becoming amazing has nothing to do with Hoke struggling in his third year at Michigan.
Facts are facts. Hoke is not doing a good job coaching this team THIS YEAR. Will he improve? I hope so and I'm sure he'll get a chance since DB will 100% give him another year if not 2 or 3. Until then, Saban is a terrible analogy.
He had won an NC with LSU but not many would have said he was the best coach in CFB in 2007.
He was definitely near the top of the list with guys like Carrol or Mack. The Dolphins did hire him.
You are not performing very well in the points department...
My pessimism comes from just not seeing any improvement week-to-week. And in many ways, seeing deterioration both week-to-week, and, in some ways, season-to-season.
Yes, the number of seniors playing will naturally help. But only significantly if one sees that week to week, and hence, season to season, these seniors will utlimately actually demonstrate not just increased size, but improved technique. And I just don't see the improvement/development on the field as I had hoped.
So for me, it's not just the wins and losses: it's the acknowledgement that I just don't see the individual players improving their individual perfomances. Who cares about great recruiting if we can't DEVELOP that talent?
That's where my pessimism comes from. And I SO SO SO wish I didn't feel this way, but there it is.
You sure it is not the gameplan instead of development that is causing this deterioration?
Entirely possible that it is gameplan.
It's a little chicken-and-eggish. There are times when the playcall seems reasonable, but execution is piss poor, in a way that makes me question the quality of the teaching.
Then, there are times when the playcalling, and hence gameplan, just makes me speechless, like the Penn State game.
Either way, it's hard for me to see where this is going in a positive fashion. If either the execution was sound, but the playcalling questionable, OR vice versa, I'd be more comfortable that these are just growing pains. But to see both questionable execution and gameplan... whew. That's rough.
Agreed that is is "chicken-and-eggish", but even when the execution is piss-poor it could be that the play call is an issue because it asks for a performance that the players are not capable of delivering. For example, Fitz does/did not do a good job blocking. It seems unlikely that they haven't tried to teach him and it is a known issue, so maybe it is something he is simply not capable of doing well. At that point, don't you again have to question a play call that repeatedly asks him to block? On the flip side, maybe living with the blocking issues is your best viable option, but then you need to recognize that this is not an "execution" problem, but simply a shortcoming that you can't work around.
I am no expert, but it seems like the coaches are repeatedly asking players to make plays that they cannot execute and then say they need to execute better. Find things the players can execute or stop saying it is an problem with execution.
I am right there with Mgrow. The fact is this staff has been very consistent and there is no reason to expect them to change - take care of things at HOME and try not to lose on the road. For this reason alone I have a hard time being optomistic for the future of this team. I desparately want them to turn the corner but, I see no evidence of improvement. This staff has been handcuffing what talent it has and seems to be blind to their strengths - particularly on offense. When Saban went 6/6 his team was tightening things up each week (one week late in the year looked like regression) against serious competition. I am hoping that when they "have all their guys in place" they will be so talent rich that they can get away with this strategy.
How is this team going to replace the rushing threat that Denard, Fitz, and Devin have provided in recent years? Derrick Green's 3.3 ypc? The other guys who aren't allowed to see a football? The non-existent guy in this recruiting class? Even if the spring hype on Darboh is accurate and he gets healthy, is he going to be that much better than Jeremy Gallon? Lewan and Schofield, not to mention recent guys like Schilling, Molk, Omameh, etc.? We heard all the hype about guys like Kalis (almost played last year) and Bryant (would have started if not for injury) but it turned out to be bullshit or idiocy. Glasgow and Magnuson don't seem like a fit for where they are now, so basically you are looking at 5 new guys next year and a repeat of the "Can't get any worse" mantra we keep hearing from all things offense related. And do we just assume that turnovers will become a thing of the past so long as we have a white QB who wasn't recruited by Rich Rodriguez?
Outside of Funchess and a few young guys on D, the future is what is giving me a headache, not the guys who will be out the door in a year or two. This seems like the complete opposite of where we were a few years ago. I just don't see how losing our only trusted/productive players on offense is somehow the answer to all our prayers at this point.
The defense is solid and will be (good enough to win every game if the offense doesn't fuck up, in fact), but I don't see enough game changers to carry the team if we can't score a TD @ND, vs.MSU, can't score in the 2nd half @OSU, and again can't score a TD @MSU. Maybe a guy like Peppers can change that, but he's just going to be a freshman. And with what we've seen from Green, Kalis, and Pipkins, the 5-star pedigree isn't necessarily a guarantee of success.
Wow, we might as well pack it up and stop playing football. None of our young guys are ever going to get better, they will never be as good as players of yore. Derrick Green will never improve on his 3.3 ypc in very limited time.
You realize that before Devin was quarterback, Gallon was looked at as a scrub who couldn't catch a punt correctly, right? Players grow, they get better, they get older. Michigan will get better.
Michigan should, in fact, pack it up and stop playing football. Put all emphasis on academics.
Unlikely, to happen immediately because of all the investment in football...but eventually we'll get there.
No one said players won't improve. Players also leave, they graduate. Teams just don't all get better because time passes, or because they are your favorites or because you have total faith in a guy with a losing record before he got here.
I'm not asking will our young lineman get better. I'm asking if they will be as good as guys like Lewan, Molk, Omameh, Schilling, Schofield etc. If not our offense won't get better than it was when those guys were here. Right now, the current crop are way behind schedule compared to what those guys look liked at the same point in their respective careers. One of Darboh/Chesson will almost certainly get more production, but will they be able to match what Gallon is doing now (i.e. about as good a season as we've had from a receiver)? If not we're treading water. Green may be a 1,000 yard rusher (though there is no evidence of that yet), but he has a long way to go to match Devin/Fitz together and certainly Denard/Fitz from 2011, or even Denard by himself in 2010. And he looks like our only option for a while.
To get back above mediocrity in the next year or two, we need to replace guys like Lewan, Schofield, Gallon, Fitz, and Gardner with comparable players. And we have to shore up the interior o-line as young players mature and hopefully turn to be as talented as their recruiting profile. Even assuming a best case scenario for player development like you do, how are we actually getting better? And what is your evidence to support that best case scenario?
The part that makes it even worse for me is seeing what Urban Meyer has down at Ohio. The year before he got there Ohio was 6-6 with an awful O-line. Since his arrival they have yet to lose and their O-line has been doing very well.
Last year supposedly the interior o-line struggled because the 5th year seniors with a full year of coaching and S&C (one who was 1st team all-conference actually, the other two who were blue chip recruits) just sucked so bad compared to the Michigan Men we'd been bringing in under Hoke. Now the mighty road graders suck infinitely worse because having 2-3 years on campus isn't enough to avoid total awfulness, even if that isn't the case at other top programs.
And we have all our eggs in the Derrick Green basket at RB for 3+ recruiting classes. Not exactly the Ingram, Richardson, Lacy assembly line we are supposedly emulating (because we all know Alabama wins with the pro-style so that shit will work awesome). Really hoping Peppers plays RB or we might be in some ridiculously deep doo-doo.
Dude we have all watched them for a long time(ok not everyone) and nobody is super excited about how the team has played. Being an "Old"-er gentleman you should be able to control your emotions a bit better and post more rationally. I figure a lot of the negative posts are from younger members of the board but like Gus said, it's a bit of surprise to see the nonstop negativity from you of all people. Lighten up champ, everything is going to be alright and being negative nonstop on the board isn't going to make it any better.
I guess it makes you feel better to think the pessimists--or (scary) perhaps realists--are of the younger variety. You might be surprised.
I really don't think he's being overly emotional. He's just really disapointed and there's nothing wrong with that.
Given his involvement with the program back in the '90s, I think he's got a different kind of insight than most of us here.
Thank you Don. I thought about this last night and I'm not quite sure what to do. On one hand there is definite case for people who want to be opptomistic - we havent played the four remaining games yet so we definitely could win them all and finish 10-2 and I would consider that a GREAT season - no complaints here at all.
But the realist side of me says that's extremely unlikely to happen. I believe what will occur will be a win this Saturday (ugly but we'll take it) that will further expose the increadible weakness along our O-line and playcalling in general. Then two more road losses and then back home for a complete ass-kicking by OSU. And if anyone doubts for a minute that Urban will hang as many points on us as he can they are kidding themselves. They want to play in the MNC and margin of victory (while not counting officially) will mattter in the minds of many voters and he knows it.
So am I pessimist or a realist? Sounds like many on the board are tired of hearing the message either way so I think it's prolly time for me to simply take a time out from commenting on the team and let things unfold. Time will tell if I am right in my assessment or not (not that it matters) and being a long-time season ticket holder who drives three hours one way for each game....I hope I am wrong.
But I really don't think so. So this is the last thing I'll say regarding the team's fortunes for a while. I'll comment in other areas but I'm going to stop offering my opinion on the team and the coaches till season's end. It's pretty clear that people dont want to hear the "town crier" anymore.
The Town Crier used to be the guy that dispensed news to the town. All you have given are dire opinions. I think we have a good chance to win the next 3 games. Nebraska's at home and their defense isn't very good. Northwestern hasn't won a B1G game yet and even if they're winning they'll give it back in the 4th quarter because that's what they do. Iowa is a legitimate threat at home but they're not world beaters. Now, of course, that leaves OSU and they are scary. I think they win but it will be much closer than the naysayers think. But, like your's, these are opinions not facts.
Oh well. Its unfortunate, but he seemed like a long shot anyway.
I mean, it's not like he was coming here anyway.
When Da'Shawn Hand commits elsewhere then I'll panic.
Michigan needs to out the press on him for the next few weeks or so until his commitment date. Not comfortable with that recruitment at the moment.
If Hoke & Co manage to persuade Hand to choose UM over Alabama, that will be an amazing recruiting coup. I'm not betting on it.
It's OK, most of us did not believe that Hoke had a good chance (<60%) of obtaining him. I, for one, am not that disappointed. However, if Hand and McDowell both go elsewhere maybe we should get a little more worried.
Winning/being competitive in the next couple games is going to be critical.
Teams have bad games. Recruits don't base who they are going to visit off of single games, but on relationship with coaches, playing time, and distance. Smith was already a very long shot. This is simply him trimming his list.
More than one example now exists that we struggle mightily on the road, against ranked teams etc. These things don't occur in a vacuum. Not to say his visit was worth our time, but i do think recruits base their decision on a teams performance for sure.
Those factors are important, but they also look at the current trajectory of the programs they're considering. One game in isolation is not a deciding factor, but a season's worth of games is a different matter.
In his 3 seasons Hoke:
1- had a great/lucky year & Sugar Bowl win with Rodriguez's players then...
2- posted a typical M-stands-for-mediocre-Michigan 8-5 season and now...
3- is presiding over a near disasterous season that could easily have included losses to Akron & Uconn.
It's clear that Hoke is reverting to his mean as an average coach with a just short of .500 career record. He's a decent recruiter but at best is Michigan's version of Ron Zook.
Michigan is now balls deep into an era of mediocrity with no end in sight.
That's recruiting. When you are recruiting top tier talent you'll lose more often than not. I've followed recruiting for 20 years. Nothing would surprise me at this point.
don't forget the headset
Other coaches use their headsets to call recruits during the game.
For the love of all that is right, don't forget the short sleeves!
WHY ISNT HOKE WEARING A HEADSET DURING THE PRESSER?
now that would solve everything.
and, you're welcome!
His nipples also don't get hard in the cold. He's too soft!!