I think he's great, except his twitter blitzs'
alternate headline: man does job
I think he's great, except his twitter blitzs'
Could turn out to be the all time scoring leader. In other words, who the hell knows who the most important recruit is?
I rated this as "insightful" because I think everyone needs to be reminded that discussions like these are neither interesting nor fun.
the /s and you'd be 100% correct. ;)
If a coach doesn't "recruit" DB, he or she is in for a short and stress-filled tenure.
Bacari Alexander, Jeff Meyer, and LaVall Jordan
stole my thunder!
And I agree wholeheartedly
Beilein's staff is collectively and individually awesome and a huge factor in how this team plays.
A lot of great kids have been brought in and, IMHO, Coach B's biggest recruit won't be known until their careers are over at Michigan and in full swing at the next level. I can see GR III blowing up in the NBA and impacting future UM recruits.
Started the new era of legitimacy around the country among AAU types
Novak--He really did a lot for this program and got us through some rough years. I don't know if the team would be in the same place today without him. He spent four years in the Beilein system and helped change the culture of the program.
Novak and Co. won a tourney game in their first season and went to the dance three times in four years. They went through the most successful run Michigan has had in a very long time. It looks like things may get even better but I would hardly characterize those years as rough.
That's a good point. I guess it just seemed rough because it felt like we had no star players. Harris was perpetually underperforming, Morris was good but we didn't really have any other weapons. Novak and Douglass just always seemed like the glue that held those teams together and made the Tourny runs possible.
I think Novak also catalyzed the culture shift to high energy/team basketball that has been fundamental for the team's success, with his leadership aneurysms and whatnot. This is obviously all just subjective though.
with 3 seconds left and needed a 3pter
I can't seem to focus on anything other than your avatar....
always like Darius. For the reason he seemed to start the upward trend of higher rated recruits. He was a great leader and really helped lead this team to being a tournament team and helped bring the excitement around Michigan Basketball again.
He was pivotal to laying the foundation like you said. He was also monumental in that game at East Lansing which helped to turn our season around two years ago. Don't make the Tournament that year it's possible recruits eye us as a team that will occasionally make the Tournament as opposed to a Tournament regular.
Everybody has contributed though.
If you look at 2008-2010 the only recruit with any sort of profile was Morris. If he was a bust imagine what would have happened going forward....
Beilein's first #@%! recruit. (That's how I read it...haha).
In all seriousness, Novak. He gave our program its spirit back.
i remember him as being more highly rated. but perhaps that was early in the process. i thought he was a borderline top 100 guy when morris was a 3 star.
With the way Manny went out it was really Morris and to a lesser extent Novak and Douglass that kept the team moving in a positive trajectory. I say lesser b/c Novak and Stu neeeded Morris more than vica-versa.
Morris was the guy who carried the team and made them relevant to future recruits (THjr, Burke..etc...etc). Then its snowballed. More importantly, Morris was NOT a typical Beilein player and shown Beilein's willingness to adapt his style (pick n roll O). This further attracted more high recruit type playerrs since it is a stable in the Pros.
Novak and Douglass were key ROLE players but not key RECRUITS. If Morris wasn't on those teams nobody would have ever heard of Novak and Douglass. UM wouldn't be ranked right now either.
Nathan Brink and it's not close.
No, I'll go with Darius Morris. For some reason, that felt like the signal to other recruits that it's okay for elite prospects to come here, and without Morris we don't have a 2010-11 season that suggests promise going forward.
Hey man, Brink is from the same school I am. He's a good guy.
Sorry... My post made more sense when there were two Nathan Brink threads right below this one. Everything I've heard suggests that Brink is a really good guy.
LOLZ. I rendered your comedy useless. (FWIW, I got the joke and it was hi-larious.)
is hi-larious above ha-larious or below? I can never remember. Guess I should have made flash cards.
Well, at the risk of putting words in Brian's mouth, the ranking in order of MGoImportance is below:
HI-larious >>> HILL-arious >>> Hilarious
HA-larious does not appear on our charts.
One of those two has to be the most important recruit.
Without an adequate foundation, a building can collapse. If you are not planning on building a foundation for a building then you have to have a lot of money in for perpetual repair work.
I'm assuming that the vast majority of fans want a program that allows for teams rather than sporadically successful teams. To build that program you have to start with a foundation. I don't think that there is any question that Zach and Stu are the most important recruits because they represent the foundation.
...tell us you were trying to be funny and/or make some sort of statement re: their combined importance by transposing the first and last names of the Stu and Zach...
I think Novak is definitely up there. He's the personification of Coach B's system. The only way I can describe him is as an overachiever. He wasn't the most athletic guy or most talented out there, but he was the toughest and did all of the little things, I almost liked watching Novak take a charge more than draining threes. He's the epitome of how far this program has come.
Novak may be the most important player, but as far as recruiting, I'd have to go with Darius Morris or Tre Burke. Those guys weren't typical Beilein recruits, being so elite, but they were the signal that not only does Michigan have guys like Novak and Douglass, your sharpshooting and hard working guards, but Michigan can attracte elite talent to.
I would say Darius Morris, an NBA talent choosing M combined with the team/Tournament success he led, gave us some needed legitimacy in the eyes of the recruits we're getting now.
I wouldn't be mad at Novak though (leadership, gave us a leg up in the Mitch/Spike, GR3 relationships)
Stu going for 20 against UCLA for our first big win was pretty huge. Couple that with him being our best perimeter defender, I'd say he has to be in the discussion as well.
Keeping him committed was huge because it allowed for our first NCAA Tourney appearance in forever, and showed guys like Darius Morris and our latest recruiting class that the program was on a upswing.
Manny Harris was not recruited by John Beilein
Harris originally committed to Amaker, but he then decomitted after Amaker was fired and Beilein was hired, and he had to be re-recruited by Beilein, after which he committed to Michigan again.
Sam Webb, though, has said that Morris's success at Michigan showed other PGs that they could thrive with Coach Beilein, and Michigan wouldn't have made the tournament in 2010 w/out him...Novak and Douglass did set the foundation, though, so I don't know. This is like asking me which of my (fictional) children is my favorite!
I think if he stays for 4 years he has a chance to rewrite the record books.
Manny, Darius, Burke, and GRIII are all fantastic players, but in my book it takes 4 years(Or a national championship)to be a legend.
4 yrs? based on other threads he might be going pro after this year - after all, potentially better then Glen Rice and Larry Bird (combined).
I can't say enough how important he was in developing those around him. First big get for JB. Loved watchin him play too.
That it's Burke and McGary.
But I'll go different - Hardaway. This was the first of the under the radar guys he got that really exploded and became more than just a good player. Sure Novak was even more Gritty McGritterson than we could have hoped, but I don't think he blew us away with how much more ability he had than when he committed. This not only was a sign that guys like Burke, and later GR3, (and Nik as we're seeing now) would out perform their early rankings, but he was the "talent" on the team that lifted us from just being a system program, and created interest for these other guys to take a look at our program.
Hardaway has also been important in raising M hoops' profile nationally in large part because he has a famous name, and also because he came up huge in some nationally televised games his freshman year, as the program was emerging.
Was giddy with excitement at the prospect of landing a skilled, Euro big man like Benzing.
I'd say it was Morris. (Manny Harris was definitely crucial to the turnaround, but it was Amaker who did most of the heavy lifting to get him, and his close friend DeShawn Sims was already on the team.) Getting a kid from California to commit to a school that hadn't been in the tournament in a decade (I believe the tourney drought was still on when he committed) was huge. Morris then went on to bridge the gap between the Harris/Sims and Burke-led teams.
A couple of other reasons I give Trey Burke the narrow edge.
Trey is probably going to be a first round NBA pick next year. The first M basketball player taken in the first round since..... Probably Jamal Crawford?
With Darius departing early to the NBA, there was a lot of pressure on Trey to perform at a high level as a true freshman, and Trey exceeded all expectations. Freshman POY in the BIG
helped us rush the court against Duke on Dec 6, 2008. Played lights out as a freshman with 14 points off the bench (with two crucial three pointers in a row in the late second half). (Deshawn Sims, an Amaker recruit, also dropped 28 points and 12 rebounds in that game.)
From freshman year to senior year, Novak inspired everybody. He was the heart and soul of the team. In 2009, he helped will M's way to their first big dance since 1998, as well as in 2010 and 2011. Breaking that tournament drought was tantamount to getting more recruits.
Willed the team to the toruney in 2009?
If you think Novak was even one of the three biggest reasons that team made the toruney you are a fool.
It was nice of Beilein to recruit a good portion of the 2010 football receiving corps in 2007.
As far as most important, I'd go with Morris. As others have said, he was a high-profile recruit from out of state when it wasn't fashionable for high-profile recruits from out of state to come to 'M', and he demonstratd the success that was possible with Beilein, paving the way for others.
The next one.
I would say Novak. He really laid the foundation and was a great leader. Without him I don't see us being a good team any of the 4 years he was here and I also don't see us improving like we have. He also pretty much single handledly dominated MSU the past few years. Not to mention, without him we probably wouldn't have gotten Mcgary(you never know though).
Its funny how some things play out, some would call it destiny....
for obvious reasons.
No mediocre player has an argument for being the best, so that automatically eliminates Novak.
I'd go with Morris.
It's tough to define important. Without re-recruiting Manny, do we have enough firepower to get that first NCAA bid? WIthout that first NCAA bid, does Beilein have enough program momentum to continue to attract talent, let alone keep himself off the hot seat? (I think Morris was a commit before the bid, FWIW)
Bottom line; it's either Manny, Morris, or Burke Hardaway is important, but hasn't been asked to carry the load as much as either of those guys. JMo was coming regardless. Novak and Douglass can make an argument, but they couldn't have possibly done it alone. New guys are fantastic but I define important as changing the trajectory of the program. Manny began the upswing; Morris and Burke prevented a downswing. The new guys just get to keep building.
Manny is the choice because he was the catalyst for it all. And because I was a Maize Rager during that first bid and it was a glorious season.
Nouglass. Those guys nursed the squad through so many knuckle-biting wins. . .
if Crisler is the house that Cazzie built, then the PDC is the house that Zack built.
Even if he doesn't grow another 8 inches in the next two years, Beilein's greatest value recruit needs a nickname...Saint Nik, Nik the Knife, Staus-skeet, eh?
Good point. Either I missed him or he wasn't on the list. I will go back and check. I almost missed Caris Levert because he was listed separately from the others in his class.
coaching staff a close second. Keeping Manny gave Coach B,cred and a rep!!
because of his killer instinct and closer mentality, Id rather have the ball in his hands over Harris or DMo...call me crazy but he's a straight up baller. Novak was also the man...
Darius Morris for sure. Even though he was only here a couple years that 2010-11 run was the most fun I had watching Michigan in a while (beating State twice, killing Tenn in the tournament and almoast beating Duke on that last runner) and he carried us in it. I would put Jordan Morgan up there too as he was our only servicable interior player/defender the last couple years. Which is funny because I remember a lot of people groaning when he originally commited.
Zack Novak by a landslide, with D-Mo coming in second.
Considering context, being able to get a vital contributor out of a class out of mostly underrecruited guys at a time when UM was about to hit rock bottom was key to bouncing back.
Also, in being able to play multiple positions, Novak helped paper over a lot of our roster deficiencies (particularly at the 4) -- given his size, he had no business being able to do that.
I think to truly appreciate what Michigan appears to have become you have to look at what JB was trying to build and who helped him build the foundation. He wanted guys who thought the game, who were coachable, who were decent students, who had the character to represent the university, who helped install his system to usher in future classes, etc. It's true, without Harris or Morris or Burke Michigan would have accomplished far less, but I think it's equally true, when it comes to all of the ingredients it takes to build a program, that without Stu and Zack's 4 years that the program would not be where it is today.
Football and BB?