I'll take the guy who gets to the tourney 3/4 years.
John Beilein vs. Thad Motta
Its impossible to decouple Thad's douchebaggery from his coaching style. Impossible to answer impartially.
I'll take the guy that isn't Thad Motta. Every time. You didn't even have to tell me about option B, I was taking it as soon as I got done reading option A.
i think the booster situation at OSU is still alive and kicking. that has certainly helped recruiting.
cant believe M goes down for NCAA violations but OSU bball and fball are riding clean.
I'm pretty sure we are not allowed to throw the "dirty basketball recruiting" stone.
I'm not sure this applies 100%. It would be different if we didn't get caught, but we paid dearly for our "dirty recruiting," and there's no shame in wanting the rules applied consistently across the board.
This isn't to say that OSU isn't clean, because I don't really know one way or the other. I do know that their paper won't be bending over backwards to spark up any investigations, though.
We also profited greatly.
if there were one website free of tools and trolls.
But after today I can't call him an elite coach. He's good but not great.
I'd still take him over Matta any day.
Because his team lost to the #1 seed on a 40-foot buzzer-beater, he's not a great coach? (I mean, there are other potential reasons out there, but this one seems a bit spurious.)
No, because he set up the worst defensive play ever. Matta even said after the game "they didnt press us like we thought they would." Which I interpreted as Matta saying "thats what I would of done" How do you set up a play where you let one of the best players in the country dribble and shoot with no man pressure?
Dude - he dribbed and shot a 40-footer. Calling that the worst defensive play ever is just silly. We made OSU take an extremely difficult shot and unfortunately, they made it.
in that situation you have to pressure the ball and make the ball handler go around you/left or right - not straight up the court unabated.
I would have agressively denied him the ball in the first place.
I'm not saying that what we did was necessarily the best strategy but still . . . forcing your opponent to heave up a 40-footer is not bad defense. It's not like we gave up a layup.
as a point of reference that cocksucker Laettner's shot came w/ what 2.1 seconds left and he had to get a baseball pass 3/4 court to get to where he was..... I would have pressured Turner to get the ball as close to the baseline as possible which would affect how close to the basket his shot attempt would be.
I'm also a hater of the zone in late game - deadball situations too.
Thats just me though.
Plus he was 20 ft away from the 3 pt line. I rather take my chances with that and play zone than someone getting an easy shot.
Michigan didnt "force" anything, Turner dribbled up set his feet and let it fly. Why wasnt someone on him? pressure him at half court? Deny him the ball? Not only did we not pressure him we didnt pressure the inbounding player. Hes one of the best players in the country. Michigan should of forced him away from the basket so he'd have to take an off balance shot. A lay-up would have at least given us a chance in overtime. I would love for someone to explain to me how that "D" was supposed to work.
Here's how it was supposed to work: we took away the deep pass and dared them to throw it short to Turner, who would have to take an extremely low-percentage shot. That's what happened. Unfortunately, it went in.
Marty Mornhinweg thought that was a bad call.
This is a no brainer. Blame goes completely to Beilein for the last shot fiasco. This was very poor end of game coaching by Beilein in the OSU game. No pressure on the inbound, no one guarding the #1 player in the Big Ten (heck, they could've double teamed him by not putting someone on the inbound pass), and no ball pressure on ET until he was past half court.
Also, how about using a timeout before the last play to talk over strategy? Or to try to confuse OSU or at least make them think about changing the play? This one is debatable because I'm not sure if UM had a timeout at the end or not. If they didn't, then I would retract this criticism.
The final play strategy did absolutely nothing to separate Beilein as a top tier coach. This was just bad all around. It's extremely basic strategy and it's very bothersome that he blundered this big on this large of a stage.
JB has a lot of ground to make up, IMHO, to solidify himself as a quality college coach. I see a lot of 1 on 1, commando basketball from UM and very little toughness overall. This team seems to get pushed by other Big 10 teams very easily. People are absolutely in the right to be questioning him at this point. His performance so far deserves it.
...and the piece of shit school that writes his checks.
I don't want Sloth running my basketball program.
In this day and age - I am very skeptical of one program (Kentucky, OSU, etc.) landing 3-4 top10 recruits in 1 year.
I don't want to be that school.
That and Thad is a grade A dickfuck.
It worked during the Fab Five era. Not so much after, but during.
I can't bring myself to use that group of guys as an example of what I want this basketball program to be again.
I loved the athleticism, the energy, the skill, the flash, the "swagger" and more than anything the wins but.... ya' gotta' admit - it all came at a cost.
Mike Barwis probably doesn't like the high carb fare one gets at Zingerman's. I do, but I like my carbs to come from delicious beer.
I'm stuck at home w/ the boys.
I just sent a desperate text to my to come home early w/ gifts of beer in hand ASAP.
Everyday I find a new low.
I'm going to be there in about six months when we have our first.
being the center of your own universe while you can... that'll all soon change.
The wife just called - she forgot her ID.
No beer for more beer for Z.Barwis tonight.
Now to go to the cupboard and see what I can mix w/ my limited liquor stash.
I want the winner of the intercontinental belt.
I love America too!
For $279, it better come with a replica of Ric Flair's robe and boots.
I went to a Halloween party (while at law school at USC) a few years back dressed as the Nature Boy. Farrah Fawcett wig, glitter paint on the robe to let the people know who I was, championship belt, the whole nine yards. Sadly, all the girls in law school thought I was a drag queen, but I was redeemed when a bunch of Mexican dudes outside the club immediately recognized me and I'm pretty sure elected me king of something.
I take option B because I basically just couldn't look at Thad Matta more than twice a year. Dude is just one ugly gentleman, and I use that term loosely.
With that nose, he reminds me of Gonzo from the Muppets.
Case in point:
Besides being a jerk, Matta just seems . . . weird. He probably drives 3 hours out of his way to an outlet mall to buy irregular tube socks.
Not Motta. And he can obviously coach pretty well, douchebaggery aside.
he's actually a pretty bad coach considering the talent he gets every year.
If you can put douchebaggery aside, then you sir, are a better man than I. Guy's a classless fucking blowhard. With a temperamental cocksucker like that representing my University, I'd just as soon lose.
you should tell us how you really feel!
(edit, in case it isn't obvious: +1 for brutal honesty)
I think I heard in Beilein's first season here that the two dont like each other much, it goes back to their early days at coaches.
... kinda like a dog doesn't like the owner who constantly kicks the shit out of him. lulz
Matta is 10-2 vs. Michigan, which I think qualifies as "kicking the shit out of" under any reasonable definition.
Your other question, "Why bother even posting here?", may be rhetorical, but I'll answer it anyway.
I stumbled across this website while Googling to see whether Matta was delivering a verbal smackdown to Beilein or arguing with the officials and/or the scorer's table. When I came to this site, I was surprised to find that everyone is on here making childish jokes about Matta's physical appearance, calling him a douchebag, and saying he must be cheating (when in fact Michigan fans must know better than anyone that cheating does not lead automatically to success, right RichRod?)
I thought people would be (a) criticizing Beilein for fucking up the defense at the end of the game (which a few people did); and/or (b) mocking Beilein for refusing to vote for Evan Turner as POY, who is posting a 20/9/6 season despite breaking his back and missing six games (and more importantly, most of two others, when he was injured and his first game back).
Once I got on here, though, I started urging you guys to stop making lame excuses and start demanding accountability from your Athletic Department. Because when it comes down to it, we need you. Ohio State needs Michigan like Batman needs the Joker. And right now, you guys are just a joke. So get your act together so we can have more games like 2006 and fewer like 2008.
No, once you got on here you starting acting like the cockbiting douchebag that everyone in your third-rate trailer park knows you are. You can't sign up with a username like that and post the shit you post and pretend to be Mr. Sensible and just trying to act in our best interest. We're not stupid. I know there are classy OSU fans out there, but a username like that pretty much pegs you as one of the cooler-shitting, couch-burning, trailer-dwelling, Icehouse-swilling, mullet-sporting rednecks that give rednecks a bad name. Your act is pure Bucknuts and zero BP. Either man up and act like you have an atom of class in your body and start fresh with a new username, or stop trying to pull the lipstick on a pig act and go back to making sure your neighbor hasn't seen the extension cord you've plugged in to his double-wide.
Which makes you the pot and me the kettle.
Obviously, I signed up to troll the boards. But that doesn't mean what I said about you guys needing to get your act together isn't true.
And how would you know what class looks like if you saw it? (Hint: it has nothing to do with new rims.)
1. Don't reach back to Ellerbe or Amaker for win totals. They are gone (and never should have been here). You're lucky that OSU won one game against Michigan's underachieving squad this year.
This is exactly what I am talking about. You are a textbook case of DMF (Delusional Michigan Fan). Matta is 10-2 against Michigan. Fact!
2. I don't post on OSU boards because I couldn't give a shit less about them. I'm a Michigan Man, not a garbage man.
Believe me, it's no picnic posting on here, getting dozens of minuses, and yes, I know I brought some of it on myself by selecting an inflammatory screen name. But it's pretty obvious that Michigan could learn a thing or ten from Ohio State about hiring coaches, just for starters. Tressel/Matta is the best one-two punch in all of Div. I (you could have said Meyer/Donovan at Florida before Urban's freakout a few weeks ago). You can whine about Thad chewing gum all you want, but it won't change the fact that Ohio State owns you in both major sports right now.
3. Matta doesn't cheat...he pays players. I don't consider that cheating, but I do consider it highly unethical and a major problem. How do I know this? Sorry, sources won't be revealed (but you can check my track record...I haven't been wrong on an inside scoop...not once). You don't need to believe me, and I don't care if you do.
4. Matta is a scumbag. What kind of asshole, after lucking into a win on a last second heave (was that "kicking the shit out of us"), goes to taunt the opposing bench instead of congratulating his own players? He's like Dantonio, who rooted against his own team just so he could root against Michigan. Matta and Dantonio belong together. They're both corn niblets in the same log of shit.
No, Beilein is the asshole, withholding Turner's vote just for spite, and a worse coach than Matta, too, which is an even bigger sin.
5. Finally, when you pry the machete from Maurice Clarette's hands, I'll demand accountability from UofM's athletic department.
Clarett was dismissed from the team, i.e., he was held accountable. Learn it. Live it. Know it. You're only hurting yourself. Believe me, nothing would make me happier than watching Ohio State crush Michigan 42-7 every year. Bottom line:
Dorothy is to Kansas as RichRod is to the Big Least. And it's a harsh, cold reality that scUM fans have to face someday if they ever want it to change.
That is all.
Go to your message boards, flame out: "You're a bad guy!"
And we're all laughing at you.
It was true then, and it's even truer now.
2006 - Cowherd says, "Michigan's program is eroding. Grownups can see it."
2007 - Appalachiageddon (followed by Oregon debacle the very next week).
2008 - Wolves score 10 in a home loss to Toledo. End up 3-9.
2009 - Lose seven of last eight.
All the while, DMFs (Delusional Michigan Fans) continue to talk trash, make excuses, and pretend that Michigan is a football powerhouse.
That's about all that I feel is appropriate to say to you. And it is true, you are a moron.
And who is talking trash here? You? Yeah.
You're living proof that the effects of thalidomide are truly devastating.
Where does the Thad Matta is a terrible coach line of thinking come from?
Does anybody think the 2005-2006 osu team (Dials/Butler and who else?) was way more talented than the rest of the Big Ten?
In 2004-2005 his was the only team in the Big Ten that beat Illinois (was that due to recruiting?).
He has had one season since he got to osu where ken pomeroy has ranked their defense outside the top 25 nationally.
He is 9-4 in the Big Ten tournament, and 69-33 in Big Ten regular season play.
Evan Turner, Dallas Lauderdale, Jon Diebler, David Lighty and William Bufford have all shown improvement in their basketball performance since last season (could you imagine how good this UM team could have been if the players had actually gotten better?).
If Matta is the model of a guy who "can't coach" maybe UM should find somebody who "can't coach" just as well.
have an opinion that is different from the general consensus? Worst yet, you actually backed up your opinion facts and data. Now take your negs for having your own opinion you free thinking fucker.
I love how NOBODY argued with you...but you were at -3 when I read your post.
Leaders and the best we are.
Once Beilein gets players on the floor who can hit the three at the 35-37% clip that they hit them at WVU, UM will start posting top 20 offenses on a regular basis. Three point percentages of 31% 33% 30%, the middle year was a first round tournament win, imagine what they can do when they hit at 37%.
Hearing so much about The System as in the last three years.
It begs the question: are these the types of hires that big time schools make? We have, as our two high profile programs (using the term loosely of course), coaches who seem so rooted in The System that there are only certain types of players that can succeed in it, or the results are bust.
I realize that to a certain extent (and maybe a very large extent), coaches all have some sort of system as their foundational approach, but to Michigan fans, the arguments about The System are reaching biblical proportions.
It also seems to me as if the argemenst about The System are distorting our logic; our ability to objectively evaluate results, games, talent, and coaching decisions--as well as offering criticisms and opinions (as is our right as fans); and, of course (this being the single most important aspect of the last three years), the points that go along with posting here.
Just seems to me to be a bit fishy how OSU suddenly started getting top basketball classes as soon as Thad showed up. He never recruited that well at Xavier or Butler so what gives? With that said the guy can coach, he's just not an elite coach. And I too would take Beilein over Matta anyday if nothing else because I know he runs a clean program.
I wouldn't expect a guy to recruit as well to Butler and Xavier as he can to Ohio State.
Kind of like we all expect Rich Rodriguez to recruit better to Michigan than he could to West Virginia.
If Matta couldn't coach, he would not have been highly successful at Butler and Xavier. He also had 4 freshman and went to the Finals at OSU. The dislike toward Matta is mainly due to the lack of success under Beilein. According to the recruiting services, he has a very highly rated class of 6 players coming in next season. I've noticed that his players also play very hard under him. I'm not going to trash talk someone else's success because it's not going to change anything. It's obvious now that Matta will be competing for the Big 10 Championship every year with Izzo. Purdue, Wisconsin, Minnesota look like they also will stay up there and be very competitive.
Beilein needs to create his own success. Trash talking any other Big 10 program is not going to change the reality.
I got negged simply for asking why the Matta is a bad coach stereotype exists. Recognizing success outside of UM is not permitted here!
You'd rather have dumb fuck John "Don't Guard the Inbounds With 2.2 Seconds Left" Beilein than Thad Matta as coach? Right. And I've got some property in the greater Detroit area that will make you rich if you just buy and hold.
It's just comical reading you douchebags make excuses for your sorry fucking football and basketball programs.
Hey, Coach Beilein, tell us again, who is the Big 10 player of the year?
So in the early morning hours on a Tuesday, you registered here to troll? You must lead an exciting, fulfilling life.
... trying to define hard-core pornography. I know it when I see it.
Bo Schembechler = class
RichRod ... not so much.
I don't want Matta. Apart from his coaching, I don't like his recruiting. Don't feel the need to dis him, but I really like Beilein.
I think we may forget how crummy our facilities are. The new practice facility is huge, and re-doing Crisler is also critical. Our terrible facilities really put Beilein at a huge competitive disadvantage.