Is it for real this time? What's the source?
at least it's not just us?
Is it for real this time? What's the source?
Per CNN and ESPN. So...maybe?
We place to much importance as fans on this game at times which leads to alot of unforeseen events. To much emphasis on being the g.o.a.t. Im not blaming anyone but if you honestly think fans dont have an impact on the choices joepa made or didnt make.. Take a look in the mirror. We all share blame, the media, boosters, etc etc. Not sure how i would follow up, say placing it in the hands of authority and letting the system prevail. Just my opinion but the man did alot of great things and its a shame how it ended. Can anyone of us honestly say we would so willingly let go of something our entire life had been focused on?
So he stayed too long. In the scope of lifes great tragedies, this is not one of them. While the man didnt solve world hunger he did have a positive impact on this country, and anyone who tells the president directly to get bent is ok by me. It is what it is but lets not crucify the man. Im not psu fan but i dont buy into the mentality of "fuck him hes just as bad as jerry"
Family said it.
My sympathies to his family and PSU alums and fans.
There is little doubt that, in light of recent events, the nature of his ultimate legacy at PSU will be debated by people (and those events should not be forgotten, of course - nobody here is minimizing the Sandusky scandal and the magnitude of what happened by any means, I think), but it is undeniable that Joe Paterno did much for Penn State and State College, and he will be remembered for his impact on the football program, the school and the community.
Thoughts go out to the Paterno family and the PSU family.
I wonder how the sports world will define Joe Pa's legacy.
The Sandusky Scandal should have little to nothing to do with Paterno's legacy. Paterno should go down as one of the greatest coaches and most influential people in college sports history.
Why would this not affect his legacy? I'm guessing Sandusky's victims and their families don't think too highly of his "legacy"
I'm not going to even diganfy this with an answer. I don't think you deserve one.
Paterno was a great coach, a great man, and today I am going to celebrate his life.
So as long as you win lots of football games and talk the good talk it doesn't matter how many boys get raped? THIS attitude is what's wrong with this whole situation. Putting football before the wellbeing of crime victims. If JoePa was just some guy, he'd get fired, maybe indicted for obstructing justice or perjury at worst, and everyone would call it righteous justice. But he won 409 football games, so we bend over backwards to dub him a great man, celebrating his victories and sweeping his failures under the rug.
JoePa did many very good things in his lifetime. He did at least one very, very bad thing. All of those things will, and should be, part of his legacy. We are who we are when we're faced with a crisis, and JoePa made his choice. I think it's important we never forget the cost of putting reputation and appearances above justice.
May Joe now rest peacefully, and may those who suffered the unspeakable in part because of his failure find justice and peace of their own.
is that people assume they know exactly what happened while investigations are still in progress both within the university and the police. We don't know how much JoePa could have and/or should have done, despite the fact the nation has already made up their mind. That, to me, is one of the biggest tragedies, but unfortunately that is engraved as part of US culture.
Supposedly JoePa reported the incidence to the campus authority (an actual police force), they investigated, and did nothing. Then, he disassociated with Sandusky. Now, maybe that's not the right story, but you nor anyone else in the public knows because JoePa was never allowed to speak publicly about the investigation because it would interfere with the investigation.
All I'm saying is this story isn't finished, so I don't think it's right to vilify JoePa yet. We don't know what actually happened. We don't.
whatever good he may have done will always have an asterisk for the one thing he didn't do.
what he may or may not have done. You, I, nor anyone else on this board knows what happened. We only know what has been spooned-fed to us by the media. The facts will eventually come out, then we can make our judgments.
Exactly! Nobady on this board knows jack shit about what Paterno did or did not do, but we mindlessly listen to the media as if it was absolute. Sadly people the media bend the truth everytime a story is told. Now I do not know if Joe Paterno did the right thing by going to the police and disassociating himself from Sandusky(There are reports that he did and reports that he didn't), but I am going to judge the man's life about what I know is absolutely true, he was a philanthropist, an insperational coach, a great man ( I met him once when I was in high school) and most of all a loving father husband and friend to many. Let's not forget the many many many many many many many many great things he did throughout his life.
Oh yeah meeting Peterno once for no more than 2 minutes is one of the greatest moments of my life. Only surpassed by the birth of my son, day I got Married, and the day I graduated college.
there were 2 people who would upvote this, let alone 5.
Are you the lead detective on the Sandusky Investigation? because if your not don't write on a blog like you know everything that happened. I thought America was based on Innocent until proven guilty. Oh wait Peterno isn't being accused of anything except for the fact that he may or may not have said anything about the Scandal when he found out about what was going on. This is something I am comfortable guaranteeing you do not absolutely know, because if you did you would be the same person you are persecuting Paterno for.
jeez.. will you shut up about it already? You say the same thing in every thread... way to show class by running your mouth about a dead man.
ESPN and CNN are confirming this, they didn't pick up on the Hullabaloo yesterday.
I think he'll be remember for what he did for the university both on an off the football field. Within 10 years, I'd be surprised if many folks remember the Sandusky thing at all. It may have an asterisk or a side note, but I'd be surprised if the history books didn't focus on his wins, the length of his career and the rest of the good things.
A real leader of men would have made sure Sandusky never set foot anywhere near a child again.
Oh wait, Paterno didn't know what rape with a man was. He definitely didn't just let what he knew fade away so as not to cause turmoil in the all important football program. Totally different opinion now that I know that. Never mind, he's all good.
I feel bad for his family and friends and people who knew him. He's done a lot of great things. But when he had a big opportunity to help those who were powerless, he was very small. That's his real legacy.
please link me a source that says Sandusky was forced to retire.
Paterno was the icon in that situation. The living legend, the man running the Grand Experiment, or whatever he called it. While admirably not the venal money-grubber so many coaches are, he was also saddled with great responsibilities if he wanted credit for all that other grandiose talk and what-not. There is just no way that his involvement can be excused by saying, Well, he reported it up the chain of command, what more can you expect him to do?
If he thought is was possible that everything was investigated and handled, and he just never heard anything more about it, then he wanted the whole thing to just go away.
So if you knew a coworker committed an egregious crime, you'd just tell your boss and go on your merry way, assuming everything would work out? A little follow up by JoePa, the most powerful man in Pennsylvania, could have made all the difference.
Not to get overly religious but by way of literary example, I liken JoePa's actions to Pontius Pilate - he did what he was supposed to do, but not all he could have done, and then washe his hands of the whole deal. It's not the actions of a great leader of men.
Still Joe is gone now. I hope he found peace, but also remorse. His death does not wash away his failures, and his failures don't mean his good works meant nothing.
That's a very German way of seeing things. Doing the minimum is not enough, especially in regards to a leader of young men.
No, I expect my self to see the process through and make sure that there is something done about it. Not swept under the rug for 15 yrs. If you were in the same position and you did as he did would you be satisfied with the results? I think not. I feel bad for his family and for everyone that was close and lost him and I hope he rests in peace but to ignore the fact of what happened and his role in it is not fair to all the children involved and to anyone who had ever been monlested.
You don't know what happen. You think you know what happened. Those two things are often quite different.
Football was placed before the safety of kids. That is unforgivable and will always define JoePa. No amount of the "good" he did makes up for that. He was just a football coach. I don't care how many games he won, there is an expectation for the position. He failed when most important.
Also, and for those whose lives have been touched by cancer please do not think I am being insensitive, but an 85 year old man dying of cancer is not sad. It's life. It is life's only guarantee. The fact that he was able to live for 85 years and than had, from a medical sense, a very reasonable degree of time to deal with things is actually desirable in some ways. I am a healthcare practitioner in oncology. I hold people's hands when they die and I comfort the family afterwards. Of course there is a sense of loss, but it is important to distinguish a situation like this from actual sadness. What is "sad" IMO is allowing injustice and inequity to effect those that are powerless.
yet he did nothing to prepare American naval forces(thought he was once was thr assistant Secretary of the Navy) for a Japanese attack.2400 Americans died that day. His sin was much worse than what Joe did and yet many still revere the man. I think it is more than possible that Joe will still be revered by many Americans.
What impacts me right now is how the kids that were abused will deal with that issue for the rest of their lives. Paterno cared more about his precious football program than he did about a bunch of kids. That is a sin I will never forgive him for, which is a shame, because I always respected the guy.
The situations are not analogous. Paterno was told by an eye witness what was occurring between Sandusky and one child. Admittedly, it wasn't a court of law, but I suspect there was little reason to doubt the veractity of what he was told. I also believe that McQueary was not the only one seeing strange behaviour. How can you possibly compare a DUI with sexual child molestation? Children are routinely removed from certain environments, including their homes, if abuse is suspected.
Paterno had a moral and ethical and potentially a legal obligation to follow up on the information that was revealed to him.
If JoePa didn't think what McQuery told him or he didn't believe him, why on earth would he keep him on staff for 10 years?
allow the victims to be forgotten. While I applaud JoePa and his accomplishments, I cannot forgive him for his one and only mistake (that I know of). What he did (or didnt do) is inexcuseable.
I hope God has mercy on his soul, provides peace for his family, and the entire PSU Clan. I just hope that JoePa never called the police to "protect" PSU. I hope I never hear that word during the upcoming trial.
He made a conscious decision each and every day for the better part of a decade to allow a child rapist to remain a part of the PSU football community. He saw him at practices with DIFFERENT children AFTER he heard the 10 yr old shower rape story. It wasn't one mistake. He somehow rationalized in his head that his inaction was morally acceptable. I believe he knew deep down this wasn't true. But he was so blinded by potential ramifications of doing something, he allowed incalculable pain for a dozen or more children and their families.
It's sad he's dead, but don't minimize his transgressions. Unfortunate that he was confronted with a horrific situation that no one else in his progression had to face.
But it has been shown throughout history in similar circumstances many people would do nothing. Kitty Genovese' murder is the most infamous American example. The most despicable example is how Germans living near concentration camps by while people were being slaughtered did or said nothing.
Paterno's inaction was reprehensible and his reputation surely deserves to be tainted. But one ought not to act like what he didn't do was exceptional. It wasn't. Many, many, people throughout history and living today have and will do the same as Joe did--sit back and permit a great evil to be done.
the extent that people will go to be different is just beyond me.
Germans standing by in WWII? Yeah, if they spoke up or had done anything they would have been killed. Or their families might have been killed. You want to wish you'd be different in those situations, but to disagree in Nazi Germany was a death wish. Do you understand that?
What exactly would have happened to Joe Paterno had he followed up? Or confronted Sandusky? Or tried to find out who the victim was? Or went to the police himself? Oh right, nothing along those lines above. The only thing that could have went wrong was PSU football being interrupted by an inconvenient scandal. And we can't have that can we! So sweep it under the rug and hope no one finds out.
Go away and think up some more ridiculous defenses. Then don't come back.
Germans spoke up during the Aktion T-4 program--the euthanization of the mentally ill--and the Nazis stopped the aktion. If Germans and more importantly, the Heer, had reacted negatively to the Holocaust there would have been no Holocaust.The German Army was the state as it is in EVERY country which has a standing army.
In both the PSU scandal and the Holocaust, it was a necessary condition for said events for people to do nothing. If people had reacted morally in either case both tragedies would have been been curtailed. Unfortunately no one did.
They stopped it officially. Plenty of evidence appeared that even more people were killed after the program was "disbanded". They didn't actually stop because of the opposition, they just shrouded it even more secrecy. And who knows if anything happened to the people that opposed. But this isn't the point and I'm not going further into something that isn't on the actual topic.
We're talking about the leader of the PSU football program and one of the most powerful men in the state of Pennsylvania not doing anything. You're acting as if Paterno was just some powerless 18 year old freshman. Is that what you think? He had almost no serious repercussions for getting further involved in this situation and he was one of the people who could have done the most good. He didn't, because he didn't want any distractions at his football program. But hey, keep trying to find excuses. As is said, you know you've completely lost an argument when you start comparing situations to Nazi Germany.
In the end you're just wrong. You know it. I know it. Everyone reading this knows it. You just want to disagree because this is a clear cut situation where there is a proper school of thought and you can't resist the urge to be different.
Is it vigilante to go to the police?
To talk to Sandusky?
To ask people to report if they see any suspcious activity?
No one is saying he had to go Christian Bale on him and that's what's pathetic about people like you and SQ up there: you're defending him like what he had to do was difficult and had terrible repercussions for him personally. Like Sandusky had a bomb strapped to his wife and if he ever tried to do anything to stop Sandusky, the red button was gonna get pushed. Like there was some reason he shouldn't do more. Only there wasn't.
I mean, he said Sandusky wasn't even his friend. That they didn't have a relationship. He didn't even have to worry about that aspect of things.
But let's hear the next defense.
I agree with this. I wanted everyone fired and the school to be bulldozed and made into a horse farm. However, you are making a leap here. I do not know all the facts of the case. Now that JoePa is gone, we may never know the real truth.
I hope and pray that JoePa never knew more than what is public. I hope and pray that what we know is the worst. If there is anymore details to come, JoePa's legacy will not be good.
Wow, a '-1' and a 'flamebait.' Okay, seems like the moderation system can sometimes lynch folks who may have the unfortunate desire to voice an opinion.
I'm not saying what happened was right or wrong, I'm just saying that people probably won't think of JoePa as the protector of molesters in ten years. A few folks will boil over with rebuff, but ask your random, wayward fan in 2022 and they may only know that JoePa set a record for wins and coached at PSU for a lifetime.
Neg me. Couldn't care less.
A truly legendary coach.
"Before people bash him let's try to remember that we are all sinners."
* Define your terms, please. What's a sinner in your world?
* Are you equating what he did (or, rather, didn't do) with garden-variety trangressions?
Not trying to be snarky here, but I think we can safely draw a line here to end the conversation attempting to define "sinners" or "sins." This is drifting dangerously closely to one of the Forbidden Topics of MGoBlog, religion.
Let's take this moment to reflect on the passing of a legend who undoubtedly changed college football and the lives of countless men for the better.
The end of the JoePa saga should be a cathartic lesson for all: even the greatest and most loved legends can be forever tarnished by poor choices. Even if his transgression was horrifying, his legend should be fairly considered in proportion to those few (shockingly) poor choices.
Either way, it's a somber day for the sporting world.
... and who also allowed the lives of several young men to become shattered beyond repair, when it was in his power to prevent it.
It's one thing to say that Paterno did many good things while also doing something truly horrible for years. Shades of grey, maybe. But to only present him as a great man is an example of boot-licking hero-worship.
I'm sorry. I have read post after post of people saying he was a good man and this and that and it doesn't sit well with me at all . I hope he rests in peace and feel sorry for his family but he was a GOOD FOOTBALL COACH, PERIOD! You don't sit by and let what transpired happen and expect everyone to forget about it.
and Bob Ley doing a great job of covering the story. RIP Coach.