....will be interim
Jo Paterno Fired
This is the only way, in my opinion.
It was basically retirement for a 84 year old man. There was not much punishment when you consider the situation.
Should he have been fired? Abso-fricking-lutely. But this isn't 'Nam, man. There are rules about when we can send people to jail. To go to jail, you have to break the law. Paterno didn't break any laws.* And beyond that, the statute of limitations has almost certainly run. Ergo, he shouldn't (and won't) go to jail.
*Unless some other law-type can fin a way to turn this into a ongoing conspiracy, or a pattern of racketeering activity, or something like that. If so, I'm all ears.
sure looks bright when we have PSU students rioting because he was fired, in my opinion they condone child rape and therefore can go to HELL
Paterno's actions were an egregious miscalculation on his part. That's how I see he thought it out, whether it was for the team, the program, or the university itself, he hid this filth and hoped the general public would never hear about it. Hardly a use of judgement than it was a 'political' expediency. It is sad it needed to be done, but it needed to be done.
Just saw it on Sportscenter. Also the President is gone.
Even if we figured it would happen, totally surreal.
Yeah, this is a good description. Still glad the BOT did the right thing.
Spanier needed a boot after his "unconditional support" disaster when this broke. He also could not have been completely in the dark on this either, too many reports were in the know.
I really hope the Penn State students don't do anything stupid tonight.
all over it.
Sucks that he had to go out this way, but it had to be done. The firestorm was too much, and you couldn't drag him out there for the final four.
I'll be interested in seeing if Bradley is retained following the end of the season.
"RT @nicoleauerbach: This board of trustees decision was unanimous. Wow."
A board will often agree their decision will be unanimous one way or another to avoid infighting or further debate regarding votes
But it's a little surprising in a case like this there wasn't one voice of disention for a figure like Joe Paterno. Perhaps they feared their jobs?
I feel sad for JoePa. He should have gone out like a champion, but I guess it's good we live in a world where some morals bend for no man. I will point 99.9999% of my anger at Sandusky. JoePa's no criminal. Just horribly negligent.
If they present a split voice they'll have a much harder time getting it back together. Whatever they do, it has to appear decisive--a dissenting voice would be a point of crystallization for the discontent elsewhere in the community.
I'd be surprised if there weren't supportive voices on the Board--in fact, it's clear from the news flow that there were (one of yesterday's news stories was that Paterno appeared to be beginning to lose the support of the Board). They fought it out, and when it became clear the decision was going to made to fire the dissenters changed their votes.
joepa is 1000x negligent but not criminal
joepa is 1000x negligent but not criminal
is this. And at the same time, it's what you don't seem to understand.
Sandusky, Curley, Schultz...they will get what is coming to them.
Joe Paterno, by all accounts, didn't technically do anything illegal. But from a standpoint of doing right from wrong, he is incredibly guilty. And that is why he needs to be fired, needs to be burned in the media and needs have his football career marginalized: so people can understand just how serious this issue is and just how despicable his inaction to help this children was.
The Fed Board of Governors often does the same thing, they argue it out behind closed doors and then present a united front.
I have to give props to the board for acting fairly quickly in this case. Paterno had to go, it would have created too much of a distraction if he had stayed on for the rest of the season.
Five days from the story breaking to canning Mr. Paterno. Incredible.
It's a new world we live in...everything is compressed remarkably in terms of immediacy in media investigation. Ask Jim Tressel.
That said, in this case, the optics for Penn State are, and will remain, brutal. Sadly, the problems of the program pale in comparison to the problems of the victims.
It was months between tatgate initially breaking and Tressel leaving - not even close to five days.
I still don't quite understand why the story didn't break until now. It seems a little too convenient that he was able to get win number 409 and then the bombshell dropped.
That's a huge stretch and you know it. The Grand Jury doesn't care about Paterno's wins or career. They released the report when they released it without regards to Penn State's football schedule
Yes, I know it's a stretch to assume that. But when you're talking about a man described as the most powerful person in Pennsylvania, who knows? All the current angst over the JoePa firing would be doubled if he'd been sacked before he achieved that precious record.
however, if I was a PSU fan, this would be the only course of action that would allow my continued support of the program. The whole program needs to be cleaned out and it looks like PSU is getting their house in order...what a sad series of events
Penn State fan. They're going nuts over there. Apparently, the board is gutless and this
"If true we as a society have descended into the media equivalent of the French Terror
Mob rule at it’s worst.
This response is a little disturbing:
They know campus is going to burn tonight right?
Are they really that stupid? Really?
Who would have predicted that the very fabric of one of college football's most storied programs would unravel in less than 72 hours?
up there with the SMU death penalty in terms of a shoker. Joe Pa has been the role model for coaches and now is fired in disgrace. All I can say is wow.
We can all learn a valuable lesson. Always do the right thing regardless of protecting someone.
Tom Bradley is now coach. Maybe RR, Meyer or even Millen next year?
Please let penn state hire matt millen.
I can't believe people think PSU will actually bounce back from this immediately and get a hire like Urban Meyer. Get real man. NOBODY will want to walk into that mess any time soon.
Maybe not Meyer, but I could see someone like Al Golden taking the job. it isn't like they will be walking into reduced scholarships, bowl bans, etc. The entire AD will be gutted, along with university administration. I would rather go to this situation over Miami or USC. All of the people involved in this cover up will be shown the door and they will start from scratch. The worst thing that a new coach will have to deal with is following a football legend in Paterno.
The guy who's one the honorary board of directors for The Second Mile? Not so sure that's in the cards.
If the University plans to salvage anything, this is the only thing that makes sense.
The Rise... Urban?
IMO I can't imagine him taking on that buzzsaw. I'd imagine they hire either a complete outsider or a less qualified alumnus, suffer through 3 yrs of mediocrity until the guy steps aside and a new era is ushered in. Making a big boom might be looked at as trying to overshadow the events with flash
Meyer wouldn't be taking over a program that sucked, nor would he be taking over a program on probation. He would probably be able to bring in an entirely new staff, make a big deal of "cleaning house," and not lose more than a year of recruiting in talent-rich PA. If Meyer was offered the job, which could happen, he would be a fool if he didn't at least take it into consideration.
The torch and pitchfork crew got their blood, but their appetites will only be fully sated when everyone from the current regime is gone. This would be a very easy transition for Meyer or any top-notch coach.
It stands to reason they are also going to assess whether the football program has gotten too big, too important, too autonomous, too insulated, etc.
Would you send your kid to Penn State?
Matt millen? /s
Matt millen? /s
I think they are going to work on reining in the football program next. That doesn't seem like the best circumstance to bring in someone like Urban.
We never even knew anything about this a week ago and now JoePa is gone. Unreal, but it had to be done.
He got what he deserved. Im glad the BOD had the balls to do this. This is the right thing, even though it is unfortunate, it had to be done.
The proper decision, and good riddance.
Even as hard as I've been defending him, I can't imagine having him in the booth or on the field and it not being a total distraction. I liked Wetzel's column on the subject. It's sad he won't go out on his own terms but it's hard to frame it as a good idea, letting him coach.
What kind of sanctions does the progam and school facE? It would be unfortunate if the current team had to pay for these mistakes.
I can't imagine the NCAA will impose any sanctions on the program given that it had nothing to do with any of the current players or coaches (minus JoePa, who is now fired).
This is all a legal matter / image problem as opposed to violations which would result in sanctions.
I think the hits will be donations/boosters and nothing from NCAA/Big Ten. The reason is simple: their power is derived from power entrusted to them by members. Penalizing actions unrelated to competitive matters does not fall within their jurisdiction. A coach abuses his wife, the NCAA won't bar him from coaching. People say strip the records, no bowls, etc... It'll never happen nor have a basis or reference basis
What about the Big Ten removing his name from the championship trophy? I really think they should. What are people going to say in ten, twenty-five or fifty years when Paterno is long gone and this is a huge part of his legacy? That reflects poorly on the Big Ten and should be addressed.
Reportedly, the Stagg family doesn't want to share a trophy with him. I can't really blame them. I don't know who else you put on there. I've seen reports that Osborne will take Paterno's place, which I think is ridiculous. Hayes has controversy around his name. I think it would be cool, but weird, to see Bo's name on there. Maybe Hayden Fry, but he's not suitable than Bo, so I really don't know.
Yost? Bo's already on the Hayes-Schembechler Coach of the Year trophy.
I was looking for the list of trophies but I couldn't find it in my brief search. I think Yost is not an option considering he took us out of the B1G for 10 years. Maybe Crisler, but he only coached for 10 seasons. Honestly, I'd be fine if they just called it the Stagg trophy.
Some sick bastards fantasy leads to one of the most inspirational persons in our time to be tainted....
no, your inspiration's failure to do what was right resulted in his tainting.
It wasn't fantasy, it was acts. And Paterno is tained because of his own INaction... inexcusable inaction.
The inaction by Paterno and others makes them complicit if they had any knowledge of the acts, or the initial accusations.
JoePa fired over the phone. Not even in person. Just like a band-aid: right off!
That's because it was a business decision, not moral, and they didn't have the guts to do it in person.
with all the bullshit manuvering he did today can you blame them? He undoubtedly forced their hand with his "retirement at the end of the season" and made them take action. Finally unlike his lack of action for a decade, the Board didn't pass the buck and hope that someone else would take care of it, they did it themselves, and they did it quickly.
Feels like the right thing to do. I'll give them credit, it's the first tough decision they have had to make. I'm guessing there are going to be more to follow.
I don't. Dude was a legend, and now is not...
this is the necessary first step.
Yeesh, this press conference is awkward and super-testy.
that's why they end."
It probably had to be done but this is going to cast a wide precedent for future happenings in the NCAA. It will be interesting to see the fall out. A suspect that coach's will be reporting virtually everything to the police now, even things that were normally handled in house.
Wonder what they'll do about the B1G Championship trophy...
WHY HAS THIS THREAD NOT BEEN REMOVED!!! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!
I would see the day where JoePa retired willingly.
And there is now way in hell I ever could have seen him get fired.
It's truly amazing quickly things can change, especially under such horrible circumstances.
That being said, he absolutely needed to go, and i'm glad the BoT made the right decision.
is incredibly terrible and tragic in so many ways.
Finally, some leaders step up at PSU. Wish it didn't take 13 years.
It's kind of sad but this is exactly the way it had to be. Got what was coming to him.
Running the press conference. Sorry That's John Surma Chair of the PSU Board
He's the CEO of US Steel and a real hard ass.
When faced with a difficult decision, they did not hide from reaching the right answer and actions. Leadership. Learn from this, Joe.
Paterno just fed the flames and hedged his bets with his retirement. I'm glad the BoT had the minerals to do what they had to.
Woody Hayes, Gary Moeller and now Joe Paterno. Zero tolerance no matter how powerful the individual. The schools are much greater than a football team. Right decision.
I don't know that you can compare Woody or Gary to this. Woody and Gary's actions only hurt themselves. Joe Pa's inaction hurt kids.
Well, Woody was pretty lucky to escape charges, IMO. Also, didn't Moeller shove a cop or do something else to get arrested for assaulting an officer?
No question Paterno was a million times worse than doing something basically to the face of a powerful athlete or a drunken shove of an officer with ten other officers around, though.
Woody punched a guy on live TV!
I posted this initially in the other thread, but if you watch the twitter feeds, it was actually students that got in. The idiot loudmouth was a student wearing a PSU tshirt.
....sounded audibly incensed that Paterno was canned.
Some very angry questioning during this press conference.
you laugh but the same rumors about les miles and Ann arbor were floating around before rr was hired
Wow, sounds like all of the local media sent only their douchiest reporters tonight. One guy sounded like he was blaming the Board of Trustees for the fact that PSU students are rioting tonight. Another was screaming about Paterno's dignity, with no mention of the child victims.
My wife and I both said what about the dignity of the "alleged" victims. I'm sick of hearing poor Joe Pa. I feel for the victims. Paterno could have prevented future victims. It is sad to me that people feel sad for Paterno. He got what he deserved.
I'm not watching the conference anymore, my feed cut out, but I'm told several people are there pestering at the press conference and asking "How dare you fire Joe Pa" or some sort of questions defending him. How can you defend him after what he did? How naive can you be?
Wow. Michigan media looks tame after that conference...
OSU is licking their chops now...they're hot and this could totally crush Penn State. We need to kick their freaking asses.
I dunno. Never underestimate the ability of college kids to rally around the "us against the world" line, whether justified or not.
Sucks but it had to be done, the speaker at the presser is trying to be nice. They talked to Joe and found out that he knew more than all these moron reporters thought he did. The speaker is trying his best to say without saying that Joe does deserve to be fired because of what he knew. All this while trying to let Joe leave with some integrity.
the sweeping of the incident under the rug.
I wonder what the recruiting fallout is going to be from this...
You gotta be shitting me.
Seriously people, there is wreckage of human lives all over the place in this still-smoldering plane crash of a story. Can we not go picking through the debris for the gold watches on the corpses just yet?
Having him on the field this weekend or any other would have been such a disaster - protestors, supporters conflicting, etc, etc. Would not have been an okay situation.
JoePa - thanks for your contributions to college football & for the good things in communities that you've done that will now likely go unremembered. I wish you had exercised better judgment and avoided this fate.
Any word on if he will be on the sidelines Saturday? I'm far more pissed at him than JoePa. McQueary is the one guy who can't say he didn't understand the full gravity of what was happening in the shower that day in 2002.
I think he's protected. But it could be the vodka.
Something about his comments on this are a little to rehearsed and concessionary. Seem like crocodile tears. I have a feeling he knows more. Just a feeling.
It's really hard to explain, but you should re-read the post on the main page from Six Zero about the PA perspective. As a native Pennsylvanian myself and a Mich grad, it's just a different mindset surrounding Paterno. I imagine it was something similar to what Bo had when he was coaching, but maybe even more extreme.
Joepa was probably the most influential figure in the STATE for the last 30 years. Not just sports, not just college or education, but in GENERAL. While I think this is the right thing to do in firing him, don't try to find any rationality in how people are acting. They are rioting in State College right now because everything PA has been told for the last 46 years has just been shattered. It's not about sports. It's like Joepa was the father of the state, and this is the backlash.
Were they just chanting "Fuck the trustees" at PSU's campus? CNN has a feed, the anchor claims it was "something I heard Sandusky", but I don't think that was right.
I think you are right. I was (and am) certain they were protesting the trustees, but the reporter assumed it was Sandusky. They need to investigate more and babble on TV less.
That was the report of the PSU student newspaper. Well, "Fuck the board."
Not taking the real thing seriously is what got PSU into this situation
I don't care if Joe Pa was a coaching legend, what he did was deplorable. The fact that these people are allegedly rioting and upset that Joe Pa is gone is pathetic. He didn't report a crime to the police. He should have, period. And that cost him his job. I don't see how a group of people can be so naive.
Deal with it, PSU
This whole mess is tragic and I have always respected JoePa while hating Penn State. But I don't feel any sympathy for him now. He screwed up and he rightfully should have to pay the consequences.
I fear the backlash from PSU students and fans is going to get ugly. Even more sympathy is going to go for JoePa when it should be going to all those boys who were victimized by Sandusky.
This seems to be the right step towards the healing process and cleaning house, but it still seems so crazy to see Joe Pa fired.
Joe Paterno fired? Looks like the Mayans were only one year off.
I could see him doing something real embarassing like show up for practice tomorrow in his Caddy and PSU has to call the cops to remove him, would just be a major scene.
May prove interesting as the night goes on. http://www.statecollege.com/tavern-cam/
Blind loyalty, I guess. These students could pause to recognize that the victims of Sandusky are their peers.
Remember how we were the "moral" conference?
Glad we cleared the air on that one.
[If you fail to see my sarcasm. Well, there's nothing I can do for you.]
Turn on CNN. It looks like the students at PSU may be approaching MSU riot mode.
I think he had to go. No doubt in my mind. However, after almost 50 years with PSU, Paterno deserved to be told in person instead of being fired over the phone. What an ugly ending to his career.
Can someone summarize what was said at the press conference? And the general tone of the Q&A? Sorry, no access to a TV at the moment.
Paterno not going to coach another game. Spanier resigned. "Best interests of the university." Bradley to be interim coach. A provost appointed interim President. AD Curley not fired. McQueary also still employed. Not a lot of reasons stated as to firing Paterno. "The Board had enough information to do so." A lot of PR speak.
Curley not being fired is very, very odd and opens them to claims that they're reacting purely to the media firestorm and not based on facts.
nothing much besides Paterno and the President are out. They didn't have all info, etc.
Q&A was really terrible. Apparently students snuck in and asked a bunch of really terrible questions. I mean, it made the local media sound like huge homers. There was a guy chanting that PSU was going to burn tonight.
In summary: the most awesome press conference you could ever hope for.
Earlier today, I predicted the board would fire JoePa within 24-48 hours. I was wrong. It took less than 12.
The student reaction is digusting and understandable all in one. They are grieving and don't know what to do with all their emotions. It reminds me of the protests at Indiana when they finally fired Bobby Knight, except this is (I think) even more extreme.
He should have retired immediately. He is not a man! He allowed that sick bastard Sandusky to continue raping young at risk boys and destroying their lives.
Fuck you Joe Patetno!
Wow. Where does Penn State football go from here? What's left? What's their identity now?
Complete and utter delusion by many posters over at BSD.
How could they expect any other outcome?
After reading posts mostly outraged at the firing and calling for harm to the BoT all I can say is how delusional...
Of course they're delusional. This is about as traumatic as anything a fan base can go through and so quickly too. It takes time to process something like this and even with time, what's left? It'll take years, maybe even decades for the Penn State community to come to a consensus.
Obviously this isn't the time to celebrate all Paterno did for Penn State, but it's unfair to expect the entire fan base to have that perspective at this point.
The only trauma that matters is that of the raped victims and their famlies.
Calling for physical harm to the PSU BoT is just beyond stupid...
I agree completely on both counts. I'm just saying when emotions are this raw after something so traumatic people are going to say poorly thought out things,
The only problem with that is most of these people (posters on BSD) have been defending the actions/inactions of those involved in the athletic dept. and football staff since the story broke.
"He reported it to his boss. What else was he supposed to do?" has become the mantra of many at BSD. Sad.
And if they have "trauma" due to these firings it's been brought upon them by their own stupidity.
I don't know, maybe they're blinded by their loyalty to JoPa but how they couldn't see the firing coming is beyond me.
They need to completely clean house of the football program after the bowl game. All coaches should be gone, especially Bradley and McQueary. Bradley worked directly under Sandusky for years, had to of known about the 1998 investigation, and odds are the 2002 incident. All the coaches Im sure have seen Sandusky after 2002 in the facilities. Just really, really bad case of incompetence.
Until the AD and the GA are also gone I will give no credit to the BoT. Until they clean house of everyone that had knowledge of this they are trying to make the coach and president the main scapegoats.
Did the AD not already step down yesterday along with the other administrator, Gary Shultz?
He was put on admin leave.
AD may be labeled as on "administrative leave" but he's as good as gone. And the GA is current WR coach and Recruiting Coordinator McQueary. Why he is still there is beyond me.
Imagine if you left on Friday for a week vacation and decided not to check the news while away. You'd come back and be like WTF, mate?
at the end of the presser? Some nut-job was suggesting that this was just the excuse that the Board of Trustees wanted, since the board had been hoping that Paterno would lose games so they could fire him. That is how delusional and out of touch this fan base is.
The word from Bob Wojnowski via Twitter is that some students got into the presser and were responsible for some of the angry shouting. I think that guy was one of them.
"This is bigger than Joe Paterno...this isn't the time to celebrate his career." (Per TomVH)
Albert Einstein stated it best ""The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing." All that needs to be said.
yea ive seen this quote a dozen times used in the past 24 hours
For not doing nothing about this.
Had to happen. What a freakin' tragedy.
All you need is one anarchist with a grudge against authority and a real loud voice...
Actually, all you probably need is one thrown beer bottle....
with all the OSU bs going down. hypocrite
He was moving to Tennessee because of the backlash he recieved for covering the scandal how it should have been covered.
Anyone besides me bothered by the fact that people at penn state are rioting over joe pa being fired over something as sick as this. Also once the board of trustees started taking questions, their first question is who will coach Saturday. Not anything about the kids or how they will strive to put their university back together
Where is this rioting that people keep referring to? All I see on TV are college kids milling around evrywhere.
Evidently, they just started tearing down lightposts and tearing it up a bit.
I could not agree with you more.
They're just a bunch of sad excuses for human beings.
PSU did the right thing.
im so sick of hearing about all of this
Because all of this coverage isn't about the families. It's about the fall from grace and the tainted legacy of a man who protected a pedophile.
Police in riot gear. Uh-oh....
And ESPN is telling an ABC reporter to "sit tight" in case anything happens. Yes, you're going to sit tight during a riot.
"Put on yo running shoes!"
Hide yo wife!!!
If the Board did not step in and fire him but instead let him coach this weekend or beyond, they would be seen as condoning conduct that may become subject to criminal prosecution. Worse, they would also be seen as putting Paterno's wish to end his career with some shred of dignity ahead of the crimes that were perpetrated under his stewardship of the football program. The Board did the right thing.
And the Board's action presages something that goes beyond Penn State and college football. I think that a major storm is going to break quite soon against big time college athletics. The ongoing media exposure of corruption, greed, and exploitation will be whipped into a firestorm by this scandal.
Kids not interested.
Maybe if someone tells them that cars used to get flipped in the 80's they would be all over it.
i thought same thing. a bunch of iphones and droids does not a riot make.
Joe Paterno is such a dick. He wouldn't even step down from coaching on his own accord after all of this had happened.
Hello Armani Reeves?
I am in this weird place where I am sad because of his legacy being just shredded because of this and yet disgusted because of the inaction on his part.
Just a sad week, most of all for the young men whose lives were tainted by a sick individual.
I'm in the same place you are. Step back and think about this phrase:
"Joe Paterno fired as a result of child sex abuse scandal"
On its face, that phrase is so fucked up it bends the limits of reality.
The situations is Fubar and no way to minimize the horror. Take a breath and act decisively. That is the way to cleanse the stench of scandal rather thant calling everything "an isolated incident."
i agree...talk about making heads roll. prez...ad...and iconic coach all gone. mcqueary shld b next
What happened to the Tim Curely and McQueary they should have fired when this all came out. With that being said the board did do the right thing in firing Joe Paterno.
The kids involved and their families have had to watch this 24 hours a day for several days now. Maybe, just maybe, this will help the story to die down and give them a moment's peace. I doubt it, but lets all hope.
Gregg Doyel is there:
As much as I love Joe Pa, if this scandal happened anywhere else in the country (like Ohio state) and Jim tressel was the coach, everyone on here wouldbe digusted with the idea of keeping him as a coach
from the championship trophy?
Wow his wiki page didn't take long to update
Mcqueary, while very gutless, was put in a very shitty situation... He was a twenty some year old man chasing his dream as a coach and also his livlihood. His future as a coach would be in jeopardy if he made a big deal of the situation. Obviously, he was being a big pussy in doing nothing. But lets not get all high and mighty and pretend like half the guys on here wouldn't have done the same thing. So you want to beat the shit out of a guy for being a coward? Why not beat the shit ouf of the pervert?
He was 28, for crissake.
can see why these guys never made it on the real news;
To preface, I'm somewhat ignorant when it comes to issues dealing with the higher-ups and the like withinin large institutions and companies i.e the who/what/hows of a group such as a BOT. My first question, is this whole "mess" something the BOT, or at least certain members, have known about, before this last week? I'm leaning towards yes. It seems the whole University has known about this for a long time, why would the BOT not? Many are calling for a complete clean-out of the AD and of many others associated with this case. It seems the BOT are the ones to commence said clean-out? But what makes the BOT any better and capable of doing so if they themselves have known about all of this?
Quite possibly I need to grasp this whole situation better and gather more facts than I now have. I however find it odd for us all to compliment, if you will, a committee who have also been somewhat responsible for the hush-hush of this situation.
Any cordial insight apprecatied.
should offer full scholarships to all of the victims, at the least. But i am sure they will want nothing to do with that institution for the rest of their lives.
He retracted upon learning the reason why. So he's just ignorant.
...And he decided to post a kneejerk reaction to a story he heard. Luckily nobody like that around here.
Perfect job for Tressel to take over.
Now's probably not the time to take shots at anything football related.
...But in a secondary concern I have is for how Paterno's health holds up to this stress.
Having his entire life's work sullied & ripped away due to a grave sin of omission, has to be rough on an 84 year old man.
And let me temper this by saying, I understand that the stress on the young men victimized is orders of magnitude greater.
But, I don't wish physical harm on Joe Paterno.
i have is how the mental health of the 40 victims holds up to the post traumatic stress they will have to deal with.
media is in a feeding frenzy
Sickening watching Penn St students & ESPN on air talent equivocating about Paterno; if it was your kid, Rece Davis, how would you feel? If you witness a crime, you alert the authorities. If you hear of this happening on your watch, you report a crime, you alert the authorities. Not reporting child molestation is indefensible. Period. Nothing else to say.
Paterno didn't witness it. As far as Paterno was concerned, it could have all been hearsay.
Either hearsay doesn't mean what you think it does or you don't know the facts. A witness came to him. In other words, this was first hand information.
Hearsay is essentially "Person X says that Person Y says this" or "Person X heard a rumor that..."
This is "Person X says he saw an old man sexually abusing a ten-year-old in a shower"
if this happens on your watch and you are told about it, you report it to the police. It is not anyone's job but a Judge to determine what is hearsay or not.
If you are accued of committing child sexual abuse at work by a co-worker who makes a credible claim against you, do you expect that you would not be reported to the police? Do you expect you'll keep your job while the claim is investigated? Any reasonable claim of a crime comitted at work, using one's position as the lure for their abusive actions, morally demands that it be reported to the police.
Individuals and institiutions are not the judge and jury in these cases, Judges and Juries are. The Grand Jury testimony underscores a huge moral failing by the school and staff.
The entire PSU administration deserves what they are getting for this. It should not be lost on anyone that the President of the University is also gone. Don't let your sentiments for an old man in his last days as a football coach blind you; top to bottom, PSU failed in a huge way in a situation that ranks near the top of morally reprehensible actions.
of employment have procedures in place when dealing with criminal activity, violence, harrassment, etc. Most have a dedicated person or persons (HR, hotlines) that you are supposed to direct these concerns too. Although MOST also point out that if your life or someone else's is in danger to directly call the police. When you notify them of said activity, you are TRUSTING that these people will do their jobs correctly and handle it accordingly. Unfortunately, when those in the postions of power do not, all parties take the fall.
at Sandusky's place?
It looks like I disagree with most of you on here. Legally, I don't think Penn State had any right to let Joe Pa go.
"So let me get this straight... I didn't see any of this happen 12 years ago, but when it did happen... 12 years ago... I told my boss about it... 12 years ago... and a third of you on the committee knew about it as well... so I didn't break any laws, or even lie about anything. But I'm still getting let go?"
I don't think JoePa is a hero anymore, as I once though. But I don't think its justifiable that he got let go. Its clear that the Board understands that the University needs to sever all ties with the PSU that was associated with this disgusting shit, but this wasn't justifiable. And it looks like Scott Paterno's lawyer agrees wtih me. But I'd say he's a little biased as well. Lol
before firing such a tenured faculty member
almost every contract has a moral community standards clause.
They do not have tenure and the university does not need to cite a reason in the firing. There might be a claus in their contract regarding the financial package.
Watching these students makes me grieve for humanity. Seriously, is this where we are as a society? Pathetic.
firing tenured faculty members without a hearing is a big no-no
JoePa can take them to the cleaners
but there is most likely a conduct clause in his contract, and with his testimony as evidence, they might have had all they needed to dismiss him with cause. Additionally, he didn't have much time left on his contract so the net value remaining should have been relatively small.
unclear how wrongful his conduct actually was, in a legal sense, though.
yeah it doesn't have to be legally. It can be moral/ethics related. Its pretty standard in most big businesses. I have to sign an ethics compliance statement annually.
Mr. Paterno was neither tenured, nor a faculty member. He was a football coach.
He doesn't have tenure. That he has an expiring contract makes that obvious.
wall o' capslock. Might want to avoid doing that. Some of the old-timers get pretty cranky when they see things like this.
now get the fuck off my lawn
I tried to pose this question just a bit ago, but is the BOT regarded as part of that chain of command?!
This is from the PSU radio staff, and they evidently were some of the shouters. Its bizzaro.
Farwell Joe Pa and Penn State
lol its all good
Turn back the clock a year. If someone told you both Tressel and Paterno would both be ousted in the next twelve months as a result of scandals, what would have been your reactions?
I'm a little disappointed that THE_KNOWLEDGE didn't give us some hints that this was coming so we could have braced ourselves. Maybe he did, but I didn't catch on?
And that Miami would get caught in a scandal involving paying players and prostitutes... wait, that one wasn't that surprising.
I wouldn't have believed it at all. Crazy times in the NCAA.
Clearly the problem here was institutional. Paterno was a part of that, but only a part. The problem is within the entire athletic department and, juding by the firing of the school president, the entire university administration as well.
It's the school that should be punished, first and foremost.
before last week Paterno was the most powerful man on that campus.....the king of Creepy Valley. If he had pressed the issue, demanded more be done, ban Sandusky from facilities, any of these he would not be in this situation. Instead he was an accomplice by doing nothing. Scumbag
.......pointing out several important points during the whole affair. It is remarkable, but not entirely surprising, that the whole thing was allowed to go on as long as it did. There are several points during the period this was going on that it could have been stopped dead in it's tracks and it wouldn't be the same story that it is today.
I just recently finished a training class on industrial accidents, and amazingly, those accidents happen due to nearly the same reasons as this past five day blowup at PSU has. A systemic failure of communication. A failure to accomplish simple actions in response to a casualty(incident witnessed, or second hand heard about). Ignoring repeated incidents(if one doesn't talk about it, then it never happened). Covering up incidents where the backlash may catch you up in the wave.
JoePa could have been saved from ever having to deal with this, ever, if it never was allowed to get to the point that it was. If, for example, in 1998 the DA decided to press charges for the first known incident, Sandusky might have been put away then. If, for example, in 2000 the janitors had reported it to police, Sandusky might have been put away then. In 2002 if the GA had reported it not only to Joe himself, but also the police, then Joe would have been out of the loop on what he could, or didn't, do. Or, also in 2002, if the PSU admin had taken the appropriate steps(namely, informing the police and launching an honest internal investigation), Joe would never have been put in a situation where he had a choice in the matter.
Joe was both a victim of circumstance, initially, but eventually a culpable part of the failure that allowed this to go on so long. It is right that he is fired. It is also a tragedy that he had to be fired. The true victims, the children abused by Sandusky, were failed, at several different points, and by several people, including, in the end, a man who many thought to be of such high moral character many considered him to be a saint.
Incidents become large, and catastrophic, if initial indications and incidents never get the attention they deserve, or, if appropriate responses never happened.
Spot on. This is perhaps the most amazing example of complete organizational fuckup at every step that I've ever seen, with the only possible exception of the Catholic Church. This is not to excuse individuals from their culpability, but I suspect this tragedy is going to be a cautionary tale for institutions and organizations of all sizes for decades to come.
You summed up what I and I'm sure others think if this mess. Great points about people not named Paterno, not taking the steps necessary to make this situation end properly in the early stages; and how things could be oh-so different if only they had.
Well-said. It's a shame it got by so many people to even get to the report they are referring to in 2002.