You're honestly not in favor of replay when we could have had the 3rd perfect game this season?
things go poorly
You're honestly not in favor of replay when we could have had the 3rd perfect game this season?
No. Where do you draw the line? The games are long enough. Now I gotta watch the 4 umps go into the tunnel wait 20 minutes to review a close call every inning!? The homerun review's a total joke. Hell, I don't even care for football replay (see: LSU - Bama from earlier this year).
Again, it sucks for Galarraga, but they shouldn't fuck the game up because the kid was close to a perfecto.
I would agree that not every close call should be reviewed, but they could limit reviews to the ninth inning and extra innings and perhaps allow one "manager's challenge" per game.
As for Joyce's call, that was the epitome of highway robbery.
Says you being from New York! If this happened to the Mets or Yankees or even Michigan, you would be as pissed off as we are!
Gimme a break. At least I'm rational enough to understand the ramifications of replay. The homerun replay already takes 15-20 minutes and it doesn't always get the call right. Given, it would've given this kid a perfect game, but it's not good for the game. You need to look at the bigger picture.
Are we going to review balls and strikes? Check swings?
What happens if there were other runners on base with less than two outs and there's a bothched call then all hell breaks loose on the bases? There are other factors involved?
the absurd thing is if this had been a called home run to end the perfect game it would have been reviewed. but it was a routine grounder so it's not.
give managers review flags and limited usage just to appease your ridiculous "review everything" claim
This is what we all want to see. Jim Leyland throwing out a red flag, take a stroll to the lead umpire, talk about the play in question. Watch all 4 umps go into the clubhouse. Wait. Wait. Wait. Then come out and make the call.
Of course this would only be for perfect games in the 9th inning.
You can't limit replays to the end of the game. The 3rd inning can impact the game just as much as the 8th inning.
What's your point? The NBA also reviews 3 pointers regardless of the time of the game.
Apples and Oranges
And no one watches the NBA because the replay has made the game too slow...er, or not?
My point was that the NBA has a special replay rule for end-of-game situations. Earlier in the game, shots taken as the shot-clock expires aren't automatically reviewed--even though if one of those calls is blown, that could affect the game just as much as a mistaken call on a buzzer-beater. How's that for apples-to-apples?
Bringing up what they do about 3-pointers is apples and oranges.
You're a fucking moron. Basketball is a timed sport. The replays are also unclear at times (see: Syracuse - UConn 6ot game)
Why even have umpires? Let's just have one guy in a booth with a tv.
You're all a bunch of sour pusses.
Now you're just being a jerk. Go away.
This is the biggest problem I have with Michigan fans, being an out of state student (and now alumn). People like you, UMxWolverines.
Somethings are better left untouched. Would you bitch and moan if the Tigers benefitted from the call? Tigers win the pennant on a botched call? No. You'd probably make some retarded pun or joke about it. Then talk about how great you are.
Give it a rest. There is no replay. And go back to yaking about the 2010 Michigan schedule.
Well, a lot of people would argue that making the wrong call there DID fuck the game up.
I would rather the flow be messed up a bit and the right call be made, versus horrible calls like this being made when a simple replay could have fixed it. And what "purity" of the game do you speak of - you mean the same sport that once allowed segregation, anti-semitism, illegal pitches, corked bats, and performance enhancing drugs? Come on - purity of the game disappeared years ago, if it ever existed in the first place. I want to see the right thing happen out there, not perpetuated fixable human error just because it gives 60-year-old sportswriters an opportunity to wax nostalgic.
NAME ME ONE SPORT THAT HASN'T USED PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS!!!!!
note your usage of the word ENHANCING
plenty of detracting drugs in that one.
So you are going to overlook anti-semitism, racism, and outright cheating by players, but performance-enhancing drugs is what you are going to focus on?
I'll give you that performance-enhancing drugs have tainted most major sports, but the fact remains that maintaining the "purity" of any major sport by ignoring modern technological advancements that would make the game better is a losing argument.
Racism existed in most sports during the '40's, '50's and '60's. Baseball just happened to have separate leagues. negro league players are also in the baseball HOF so at least they're trying.
Every sport has cheaters: Tim Donaghy, Bill Belichick, Floyd Landis
So STFU. You know i'm right.
this is twice in one year we screwed by umps last year when inge was hit by pitch. In which it cost us the game and playoffs and now this.
How much longer before baseball uses an "Instant Replay"? Tonight is a prime example of human error. I have to wonder, are they instructed to make calls even if they are not 100% sure they are correct? How do you become an umpire and blow a historical moment in a players career?
I really hope Selig takes notice, and impliments some form of review on disputed/ or close calls. For the sake of the teams, and for the sake of the officiating staff. Wow, what a travesty of justice here.IMO
If the MLB has any brains, and believe it or not they do, Joyce will be at second base for the remainder of the series and next time he comes to Detroit.
It will be the farthest from the crowd as he can be to prevent being berated and for safety in case some deranged fan runs on the field and he needs to be protected from violence.
EDIT: Supposed to be in response to a post on the second page.
I've seen some shitty reffing this past few years: Countless Red Wings goals disallowed, 10-3 in penalties in game 2 of the Sharks-Wings, Michigan goal disallowed denying them the Frozen Four this year, pass interference on Boubacar Cissoko when Johnny Sears tackles him, and on and on and on.
It was the 27th out in a perfect game. No other blown call could come close. End of discussion.
to the tsunami of outrage, disgust and sadness and award the perfect game.
It might not mean the same as the celebration that should have taken place on the field, but the history books could write that in an era marked with blemishes, the game did the right thing.
Is "Referee Pitman" ... The backstory: SNL, 1989. John Goodman is hosting (k.d. lang was the musical guest). Playing NFL referee, "Pitman", Goodman takes questions from the audience:
Rock Clark: Okay, Ref, last week you called the Bills-Oilers game in Houston. Let's take a look at some highlights.
[ clips are shown of the Ref's erronous calls ]
Okay, there you are making the call. There's an offsides.. there's a defensive holding.. and there's a too-many-men-on-the-field.
[ return to Ref and Rock in the studio ]
Okay. As you can see, it was an exciting game, and there were some controversial calls. I understand, Ref, that you were hit by a bottle after the game?
Referee Pitman: Well.. yes, I was hit, Rock. It was, uh.. it was actually a jar.. I believe, sort of a pickle jar. Well, inside the jar was a fetus. It was a pig fetus, not a human fetus like the one in Philadelphia.. and fortunately it didn't shatter, like in Philadelphia.
Here's the link to the whole skit:
Galarraga has a lucrative FreeCreditReport.com contract coming
"I thought I had a perfect credit score until I found out some guy named Tim Toyce made it not the case. If I had used FreeCreditReport.com I wouldn't need a replay from the credit card companies to know my credit game was still perfect. "
While nothing can change this travesty, I am delighted to see that Jim Joyce is truly realizing of what he screwed up.
Also, HUGE props to Galaragga for his reaction to the situation. Hugging the man that stole a perfect game from you? What the hell kid? My new favorite Tiger.
I know almost nothing about baseball, but from what I've seen and read so far this is what I've gleaned:
Joyce made a horrible call. He then proceeded to handle it in the most professional, classy way possible. Galaragga handled it in the most professional, classy way possible. Leyland also handled it in the most professional, classy way possible.
Reffing isn't easy, and mistakes will be made. All arguments on this subject should be directed at whether and when replay should be allowed, and not at how much Joyce sucks, because I haven't seen anything to suggest that this was a case of incompetence.
How did you feel after the Almo bowl game? It was a close enough situation that if you got upset, you could relate to this.
I'm not disagreeing with your post, just making a statement that directly after a crap call...it sucks to be a fan.
Oh absolutely, I was crushed. I stewed for days. I also never heard an apology from the refs though :).
For a little perspective, the World Series has been contested every year since 1903 except 1904 & 1994, so there have been 105 WS champions in baseball history. Only 21 people (including Galarraga - I refuse to recognize Joyce's call) have ever pitched perfect games.
The best other-sport parallels would be something like Michigan's 1901 season - unbeaten, untied, and unscored upon, a hockey goalie shutting out an entire playoff series, or a quadruple-double in basketball (only occured 4 times by official reckoning).
True. It took a lot for Joyce even to apologize for the error, which is a lot more than what any other ref/ump can say. The guys on MLB Network were discussing if the umpires know what is going on in the game, i.e. perfect game. They absolutely do. The thing is that 9.99 out of 10 people will say if they were in that situation, if it's THAT close, you have to give the pitcher the out.
He was trying to make the right call, but he also made an incredibly gutsy call in which he was wrong. He didn't even ask for help. It's incredibly frusterating, and I still can't help but wonder what was going on in his head.
I'm tired of seeing refs/umps take a game away from the PLAYERS and put it on themselves. Their job is to protect the game, not make a name for themselves.
He owned up to it, but wow. This one hurts more than any other recent Detroit/Michigan sports related game in recent memory. I haven't been this gutwrenched since the 2006 OSU game.
How you could see what happened and still argue that replay would be bad for baseball is beyond me
Edit: Just read post above me and couldn't agree more. Joyce shouldn't get the blame for this because mistakes happen and to not take advantage of technology and willfully deny the right call is stubborn beyond reason. It's sad that Galarraga has to be cost a perfect game to show MLB what they have to do.
Late to the party here, but obviously I am disgusted at the call. What a screwjob.
GoBlue1065 is a tool btw.
Is this the worst call in the history of sports? While it's most likely not going to directly determine a championship, I can't think of a single blown call with more historical significance on the line.
Denkinger may have cost the Cardinals the 1985 World Series, but the Cards have won other World Series, and there is a World Series champion every year. The National League started in 18-freaking-76. That's 134 years ago, folks. There have been 20 perfect games in Major League history. So, there is a perfect game once every 6.7 years.
Can someone nominate a worse call?
had plenty of chances to put that game away as bad as that call was. This was plenty worse and I have not thought of or been presented with a worse call in all the discussion I've had with friends and such in the last few hours. Nobody can come up with anything worse and I don't think they will.
And he pitched the whole game from start to finish in 88 fucking pitches
Armando Galarraga is the classiest classburger in Classville. What a champ
2 outs in bottom of eighth, 1-0 game. Damon hit grounder to short, throw to first clearly beat him. Joyce called him safe. Tigers then score 2 . Turned 1-0 game to 3-0. Joyce blew more than one call.
was at least a close call though. The last one was epicly bad.
That earlier blown call brings up an interesting point. Had instant replay been in place for that type of call, then that earlier call may have been overturned. There's no way to know how the ninth inning would have then played out. It almost certainly wouldn't have played out exactly the same way.
I wouldnt mind seeing him lose his pay for the game or some other penalty that would prompt him to think before he makes a game changing call...
With Matt Joyce having been traded from the Tigers a couple of years ago, there is an obvious conflict of interest here with Jim Joyce. MLB should allow him to recuse himself from the call which would then go to the home plate umpire. Galaraga gets perfect game, Joyce can save face, everybody is happy.
Seriously though, I usually am very harsh on refs/umpires, but I feel bad for Joyce, Galaraga, and all Tiger fans. It was really classy to apologize the way he did, and not hide from it.
Anybody listen to Galarraga on Baseball Tonight? It just gives me an admiration that's almost unparalleled.....the guy was just on the receiving end of what looks to be the worst blown call in sports history and he still seems to be keeping a very positive attitude the entire time. I admire him because I am some dude who really likes the Tigers and baseball and I am sitting here in my apartment steaming over it yet he is able to keep his head and basically take a positive perspective from it. Maybe I need to get my priorities straight.
...I am still disappointed by the call. I feel horrible for Armando, but strangely I feel horrible for Jim Joyce. He made a mistake, it happens. The rest of the guy's career will be defined by tonight; that's his punishment. Strangely if I was lucky enough to go to the ball game tomorrow I would cheer Jim Joyce. You could tell he felt horrible in his press conference, he apologized to Armando, it was a tough bang-bang play. Worst call in MLB history, let's at least say it is in the conversation. Is Jim Joyce the worst umpire ever? That seems unfair. Give the guy a break. Armando still pitched a perfect game to true Tiger fans.
JIm Joyce is lucky that it wasn't Verlander on the mound. Something tells me JV wouldn't have simply similed awkardly and hugged him after the game.
"Something tells me JV wouldn't have simply similed awkardly"
Would he have metaphored instead?
I found out he and my boss were roommates at BGSU.
Since we're within the six degrees of separation, maybe slapping ourselves silly screaming, "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING??!?" helps Jim Joyce feel it. Just a little bit.
let me say that I was as outraged -- and as disappointed -- as most of the posters before me on this thread when the call was made. I was in the stands when Tom Seaver lost a perfect game on a little flare hit by a career .220 hitter and I remember how deflated I was. But, as someone who writes about baseball for a fantasy baseball website, let me try to put some things in perspective. The ones who are most hurt by this are not Galarraga or the Tigers, but you the fans. The Tigers won the game, and twenty years from now, Galarraga will be remembered more than most of the 20 before him who threw a perfect game -- more baseball fans recall Harvey Haddix' 36 out perfect game against the Braves than most of the guys on the perfect game list. Do you think the Michigan legislature would be passing resolutions if Joyce got the call right? With regard to Joyce, not only does he get some credit for taking the blame, there may be an explanation -- albeit not a satisfactory explanation -- for how he missed the call. When there's going to be a close call at first, most umpires use the sound test. That is, they look at the runner and they listen for the slap of the ball into the first baseman's mitt. In this instance, Galarraga caught the ball in the web of the glove. Thus, it's possible there was no "thwack". That may be what happened to Joyce. Like I said, he made a mistake -- a bad one -- but aside from the timing, it's no worse than mistakes that were probably made in half the major league baseball games last night. Further, if baseball did have a replay rule, there would be very few calling for Joyce's head today. BTW, for a similar perspective on the imperfecto and Joyce, I commend to you Rob Neyer's column at espn.com.