...fuck Milton Friedman.
Hockey pet peeve: "when a teammate tips a puck in on you, which is exactly how my first collegiate goal against happened. Thanks, Copper."
...fuck Milton Friedman.
If their English department teaches sarcasm, it seems vastly preferable to wherever the first two responders to this comment were educated
They are out of them
I am more concerned about the effect on non-revenue sports if O'Bannon wins than whether or not it affects the integrity of ameteur athletics in football and basketball.
If we go to pay-for-play model, alot of schools, and I'm assuming Michigan included, will have to drop at least a few sports. Which totally sucks.
This is the dark side of the O'Bannon lawsuit for sure. And it's not being talked about enough. This isn't really about a pure and righteous movement to let poor exploited kids get what they deserve. I mean, O'Bannon probably sees it as such. But the idea of taking 50% of the TV money and just handing it straight to players is going to murder programs like swimming, wrestling, track, volleyball, and so on. I predict a non-revenue bloodbath if that plan ever comes to fruition. With men's sports bearing the brunt of the sacrifices.
I'm going to overgeneralize in this post, but I am going to feel bad for quite a few kids. Sports like golf and tennis, where most of the kids come from better off, country club type families I won't feel so bad for. Those kids could probably afford to go to school at a similar instiution like Michigan without the athletic scholarship. But in sports like track and field, where you have a much more diverse roster, those kids might not be afforded an education like Michigan without the benefit of their scholarship. Michigan won't be as affected as some schools IMO, because our brand is so large. But MAC schools are going to see their athletic programs whittled down to men's & women's bball, football, volleyball and other women's sports. It's crazy.
Not to say that I don't feel bad for football players that don't get a piece of the pie. Athletic departments and administrators are definitely greedy and deserve alot of flak for being all about the money. But I would hope that the football and basketball players take a little pride in knowing that they are helping provide scholarships for the rest of the athletes at the school. Ameteur athletics is a messed up system and I don't think there's an easy fix. But I prefer the way it currently stands than I would a pay for play model which causes us to lose teams like men's lax, baseball and swimming and whatever else might be cut.
Each B1G school takes in tens of millions more now than it did just 10 years ago because of BTN. I realize a lot of that money is being pumped into new facilities, but does it have to be? Do we really need a state of that art rowing facility to have a rowing program?
...This man makes none.
Jim Delaney knows just how much the Big 10 schools have guaranteed bondholders to build and renovate athletic facilities. Michigan isn't going to de-emphasize athletics.
...expected to bail out all of the "too big to fail" Wall Street banks, then I don't see any problem with taxpayers bailing out college football stadiums. In fact, I imagine that would prove to be quite popular politically.
Cost of attendance for out of an out of state student "which all full ride scholarships are" is $54,724. So a 4 year athlete gets over $218,000 worth of education to play a sport. ~$273,000 for guys who get a fifth year. And thats not even counting spring/summer term.
Pretty hard to feel bad for these kids at all when some of us are out here paying our own way through school and paying dues to the university to play our sports.
/rant not completely on topic
Did you get free MRI's and surgery in college? How about unlimited contacts and eye appointments? Did the school pay for an ambulance and overnight hospital stay for you when you had the flu? How about weekly therapy sessions with a psychologist for free?
As an athlete I had all of that paid for.
/responding to not completely on topic
Two other points: the football team generates how much money for the school? Pretty much the entire athletic department budget, which is huge.
Also the skyrocketing cost of tuition is a different matter entirely, one which is basically forbidden on the boards, so I won't go too deep other than to say it's artificial bullshit.
I'm getting fed up with the antics. People said I was insane for looking at the Big 12. Not such a bad idea. I say give some of the charter members a call and jump off the sinking ship.
That or independence. The day Michigan drops ANY varsity sport much less the biggest one is the day a pair of underwear become the emperor of the Soviet Union.
Seriously Delany. Just piss off.
you want to see Buckeyes, Wolverines, and Spartans unite on something? Try to "de-emphasize" our football or basketball programs. Literally, millions of people would be super pissed off by that
To anyone with half a brain this is hyperbole in the extreme, because it will immediately elicit an 'over my dead body' statement by all parties involved aside from Jim Delany. Can't he just say something more along the lines of, the B1G strongly opposes such a measure? It almost feels like he's insulting my intelligence by spouting this nonsense. Can we just go back to adding crappy teams to the conference like we were before? Thanks Jim.
Jimmy will take his ball and go home!!
Leaving the NCAA to form an allegiance with the other major conferences in which they are not held responsible to NCAA licensing rules is not the same as going DIII and de-emphasizing athletics. I know what was said publicly, but blowing up the NCAA and forming a new coalition which has better operating, revenue, and oversight programs would not send major college sports into the stone age or minor league sports. It would bring it back to what it is meant to be and has been. Another reason teams are positioning to get into the "super conferences".
...it doesn't sound like Delaney (and the schools he represents) are particularly interesting in a coalition with better operating revenue. They already got good operating revenue, if anything they're problem is they have too much money.
The real point is that the schools will never start paying players because they do not want to start competing in professional sports. That's a whole different ballgame that no university president or board of regents wants anything to do with. And in that context, it is more likely that Michigan will go Ivy League before they start paying for professional athletes.
...the possible ramifications of this lawsuit could be huge...yet there has been little discussion about it (or at least not enough coverage as there should be).
The O'Bannon case will have some of the biggest affects on amateurism that any of us could possibly imagine ( potentially the end of college video games as well.) A former law professor of mine is working on the plaintiffs side. He has been doing so for 3 of the last 4 years the case has been going on. I personally side with the NCAA and we debated after class for three semesters of my grad school. I honestly feel like he did it just to get opposing viewpoints. He sent me an email a year ago thanking me for my opinion. In hindsight I wish I really would have never debated with him. I spent so much free time researching my arguments that I feel like I did some of the work for him. I honestly don't want his side to win, even though I know he is very capable. The man came from Greece and went to Indiana to receive his attorney at law and PhD. You couldn't understand a word he said when he started talking fast though.
I know, cool story bro.
It might have some effects too. Those effects might even affect something.
It seems to me that we have a not-quite-perfect controlled experiment on hand that, at least in basketball, might give us a handle on how much value is generated by the players on their own and how much is generated by the schools, coaches, fanbases, everything else involved in college athletics.
The D-league is made up of players just a bit older than college players, with a better average talent level--it's missing the 30 or so kids that are NBA ready, but it's also missing the bottom half or more of the D1 pool, made up of players that aren't likely to ever play professionally.
If you like we can ignore those 30 schools with first-round talent that will head straight to the NBA, in case someone wants to argue that it's those players that are generating all the interest in their teams. What about the other 300 schools? What's the atmosphere like, how's attendance, how are merchandise sales going, what are the TV contracts like, at a Wisconsin or an Iowa compared to a typical D-league team?
pucky and crocodile tears.
I would be proud of the B1G if they followed the Ivy League model. I also would support individual players reaping whatever endorsment $$$ their name recognition would warrent. The best players could then use their endorsment $$$ to pay their way in school.
What's to stop boosters from "endorsing" recruits then? Or, even if a rule is passed that you can't endorse a recruit, what's to stop an Ed Martin from promising (under-the-table) to "endorse" the recruit to come to Michigan?
I understand the argument for "you have a skill, get paid for it." I actually agree with it in theory. HOWEVA, in application, it just leads to boosters doing the same shit we complain about, but OVER the table now.
Not sure where I fall on that, but my initial reaction is "ick". How do the schools, or new association, or NCAA, or whatever, stop boosters from "endorsing" recruits under this model?
P.S. If you continue this train of thought, it leads to an oligarchy where the richest teams get richer as they win more and more boosters come in, while crappy teams lose their boosters, and so can't compete for the recruits. You have a dual upward-spiral for the good teams, and downward-spiral for the bad teams. Does a salary/endorsement-cap need to be used then? If so, what differentiates Pros from "Amateurs"?
Nothing, and that's the point of capitalism and free markets. When a rich alumni gives an athletic dept a wad of cash, it's a donation, and they name something after them, and nobody bats an eye. Same rich alum gives money to a recruit, and its shady? If everyone loves the level playing field amateur model, why don't more people watch DII or DIII games?
College sports (revenue) are not an amateur endeavor. Even the athletes themselves (non-revenue too, on the backs of the revenue athletes) are compensated...albeit poorly. As soon as we stop pretending that: a) these endeavors are amateur and b) realize there is no great honor or morality in amateur athletics (compare to pros) we will be able to figure this out. But don't expect those that get rich off of it to help us get there.
Just to add to this, everyone should read Taylor Branch's articleffrom the Atlantic about the origins of "scholar-athlete," which was a moniker deployed specifically to avoid athletes from being able to file workmans' comp claims when they were injured.
The whole thing about this comn up is because Ed o bannon was a bust in the NBA n he is jealous of all the others making it n he didn't have the drive and will to be successful. It is for all the people who are jealous n hate on the others with more talent than them.. a top notch education the best medical care u can ask for n all the other benefits of being an athlete n that isn't enough.. they did a study a while back and an average worth of a football players scholarship to school well exceeded $75000 a year. N if this goes through then college sports will never be the same and u might as well just call it the minore of the NfL.. I will forever hate Ed o bannon for his greed n his way to make a quick dollar n laziness. He feels he is entitled.
Maybe you should learn some third grade grammar before calling someone a loser.
home games in ann arbor not neutral site games
road games on TV not streaming
trips to pasadena on new year days not third tier bowl games in florida or texas
the rest of current big time college football really doesn't add much to the real experience
except wealthy coaches/ADs/announcers/etc. and players who feel like they are exploited.
Watching UM play anywhere is great.
I don't know what the future holds for collegiate "amateurism" but I am certain that Delany's position of power would be "de-emphasized" into a retirement well before athletics in the B1G ever will be. Way too many stakeholders with an interest in keeping the profits of this industry running full tilt even if it means shifting some of the $ from coaches/administrators to the players. The establishment would kick and scream but they'll go along in the end.
The NCAA should have settled the O'Bannon case the minute it came up and canceled their contracts with EA. You can believe that college athletes receive sufficient reward for their services in the form of a scholarship, but it's pretty difficult to justify the use of their images in perpetuity by a 3rd party without due compensation.
was slow for like an hour and a half and then just blew up. I hope they strike it down. It might be nit-picky, but this just doesn't make enough sense to say "Yes, we need this."
Delany does not have the clout to make the schools of the Big Ten agree to de-emphasize athletics. The conference would break up before that happened and the schools would still be linked through the CIC.
...he doesn't have the clout. But don't forget that he does represent these member schools and as the SI article points out, he's expressed similar opinions in 1996. It is very likely that he has discussed the "de-emphasis" position with the school presidents and it is also very possible that he has their full support in expressing "his" opinion publicly on the issue.
Not to mention Delaney isn't fucking Hitler (as much as he probably thinks he is). It would never happen. The member schools would just leave the conference and form a new one.
I've often wondered what I would feel like if I were Denard Robinson, walking past that indoor rowing facility or asinine billboard. I think this exchange from Seinfeld sums it up pretty nicely:
JERRY: Does it ever bother you that this organization-
JERRY: is beating the bushes-
GEORGE: Nope! (Starts heading for the door)
JERRY: to basically give this money away-
JERRY: to virtually anyone, as long as they're not you?
GEORGE: (Standing in the doorway) I'm fine with it! Fi-hi-hi-hine I say! (Leaves)
I'm in the minority in that I think the trial has real merit to it and the players should get paid to some extent. That said, Delany is an asshat using scare mongering tactics usually reserved for politicians.
I think you're all focusing on the 1st paragraph when you should focus on the 2nd. He admits that there are a lot of alternatives to pay for play and to DIII, and that the B10 would likely go to one of the unspecified alternatives within the spectrum of payforplay<---------> DIII
if the obannon plaintiffs are awarded the suit, this will expedite the split of the NCAA & the BCS schools. We will likely see a new collegiate athletic league where member schools will be BCS schools, plus a handful of Gonzaga/BoiseSt types. They will likely have players sign waivers forfieting their rights to compensation based on their performance, in exchange for insurance, education, facility access, etc. Perhaps they would even include a smaller scale trust than the 50% TV rev model the obannon group proposes where the players can draw out of that while in school, if they choose: like borrowing from a 401k.
My sense is that such an organization, formed clearly in response to a class action ruling and designed to avoid its financial consequences, would never survive the anti-trust suit that would be filed about 2 days after it was announced.
Just get rid of Delany all he care about is the rose bowl and keeping the money in his pockets, did he even attend a big 10 school
I just have a question. I read through most of this thread, and I dont think anyone answered, if they did sorry. If players get paid, what if they dont perform. Do they get cut, not just from being paid, but a scholorship as well. What if they get hurt, would they still get paid for the rest of their time at school?
...they'll get cut. If they are getting paid, then they are professional athletes. The schools will be fielding professional teams and they'll have no choice but to compete for talent and fan resources (against competition like the NFL).
But I wouldn't sweat that detail. As Delaney is pointing out, the schools have no interest in fielding professional teams.