jmblue

February 23rd, 2010 at 4:16 PM ^

I'm not sold on Loeffler as a superstar assistant. He only coached two QBs here, Navarre and Henne. Navarre improved a lot but always had problems with his mechanics (including a very low release). As for Henne, he was pretty fundamentally sound when he arrived and didn't need a ton of work.

Noahdb

February 22nd, 2010 at 10:59 AM ^

It's been a long time since a more mediocre QB got more praise heaped on him. Yes, he's a nice college player. Yes, he played for a really good team.

As I recall, when Danny Wuerffel (a vastly superior passer) came out, there was a lot of talk about how "he was just a winner!" And of course, he sucked in the NFL.

Tommy Frazier was a great college QB. So was Scott Frost.

Tebow has horrible mechanics, an average arm and mediocre accuracy. And people are talking him being a SECOND round pick? Why not draft me with your second round pick?? I'll throw for just as many yards.

david from wyoming

February 22nd, 2010 at 11:00 AM ^

You may not like the guy, and that is fine, but I think you should at least admit to yourself that Tebow is an incredibly talented QB and has a better than average shot in the NFL.

(note, this isn't aimed at the OP, but instead at the hordes of anonymous internet tough guys)

CWoodson

February 22nd, 2010 at 11:16 AM ^

He's obviously incredibly talented, and while I don't like him or his slimy coach, I respect his play.

But a better than average shot in the NFL? If you mean to play QB at a high level (say, as a starter for more than a season), I don't agree. Some team will definitely take him, and pretty high. But they're going to have to teach him how to take a snap from under center and fix that disaster of a throwing motion, and that's BEFORE he has to learn to read NFL defenses and do the 1000 other things that NFL QBs have to do. I think his ceiling is probably a slow Pat White.

It's not that likely that any QB who isn't a top 15ish pick will have a better than average shot to play well in the NFL (even then, it's often a crapshoot); you take all of Tebow's issues, and I think his shot is considerably below average.

JeepinBen

February 22nd, 2010 at 11:18 AM ^

Why is he an incredibly talented QB again? He played on teams where his defense won him a whole lot of games, padded his stats in garbage time against crappy schools, won his heisman in a remarkably down year for heisman voting, got worked in the senior bowl, and ran 1 play successfully (bama beat them by stopping the dive play... thats all they did. Most teams couldnt stop it) most the time, and the media had a ridiculous hard on for him.

He can't handle failure (cried after just about every loss) and has just gotten an amazing amount of attention. Dude's going nowhere in the NFL cuz he's not that good.

Again, where is his immense talent? (insert circumcision joke here...)

david from wyoming

February 22nd, 2010 at 11:36 AM ^

Not to jump directly to a cliche, but the dude won a hell of a lot of games. Yes, he played on a great team, but the QB plays a big part in the success of said team. After winning a few national titles and a Heisman...what else do you want him to do before you tip your hat to the guy?

And why do you need to take a shot at him for crying after a lose? I've cried after standing in the big house and watching Michigan lose, and I wasn't the starting QB. Caring about winning and being successful to the point of raw emotion is NOT a bad thing.

david from wyoming

February 22nd, 2010 at 11:32 AM ^

I mean that 'making it' in the NFL is a fair amount of dumb luck. If you get drafted by an awful team or into an awful situation, there isn't much a good college QB can do to improve. I think someone like Joey Harrington was ruined by the sieve like offensive line the lions had. Accounting for things like that, I think Tebow has more of a chance to become a good NFL QB than most college football players.

bronxblue

February 22nd, 2010 at 12:10 PM ^

I'm not sure where the "incredibly talented" part comes from, at least as a QB. He was a good fit for that system, but sometimes you can just be a good college QB and nothing more. Pat White was at least as good a QB as Tebow was in college, yet I doubt he held any long-term goals about becoming a pro signal-caller. Same with Brad Smith of the Jets - he was a very good college QB who is having success as a dual-threat player in the pros. Kordell Stewart was an amazing talent as well, and Eric Crouch was one of the better running QBs I've seen.

So no, I don't think Tebow was some transcendent talent on the football field. He played on some great teams and was a good fit for the system, but at no point watching him did I think he was going to be a good pro QB. He may be a "winner", however amorphous that term may be, but that doesn't mean he'll be able to continue that in the pros. Now, I'm not a pro scout so take my opinion with a massive grain of salt, but what I saw (and something others have noted) was a big guy who could throw the short pass with decent accuracy and who could plow over college-sized LBs from Arkansas and Troy St. He knows how to play within himself and get the ball to playmakers, and that works in college when there are may 2-3 teams with similar talent. But as we saw against Alabama (and to the same extent during his Heisman year when Florida had lesser talent than usual), he can't take over a game throwing the ball and really execute an offense through the air. In the pros, the DEs and LBs can catch him when he takes off, can stop him when he tries to bull people over, and the DBs can sit on his routes and really test his accuracy down the field. I wish Tebow the best of luck in following his pro dream, but he probably won't see the field much as a QB except as a situational player near the goalline like the did during his first year at Florida.

HermosaBlue

February 22nd, 2010 at 1:41 PM ^

Tebow seems like a generally ok, but horribly overworshipped, playing out of position quarterback on an extremely good team.

I can't shake the notion that his NFL career will fall short of exceptional. I expect he'll join fellow Heisman winner Gino Torretta as guys with bigtime college success that vanished once they hit the NFL.

jb5O4

February 22nd, 2010 at 11:25 AM ^

It'll take a lot of hard work on his part. I didnt like the way he was used at Florida knowing it wasn't good for his NFL future. I like Tebow and I give him the benfit of the doubt that he really is a good guy.

jerseyblue

February 22nd, 2010 at 11:27 AM ^

He's had to have been hearing for a couple years now that his mechanics are all wrong for the NFL. So with the draft 2 months away he's just getting around to fixing them? That's like when you used to do your homework in homeroom when it was due for first period.

GBOD79

February 22nd, 2010 at 12:14 PM ^

2 years ago he was still in college winning games and national championships. There was no reason to fix what was working for him. His delivery will not work in the NFL so he is fixing it now, when it is appropriate to do so.

Tinkering with his delivery in college would have negatively affected his college team. That would not have been smart.

Magnus

February 22nd, 2010 at 11:52 AM ^

Some of the bile that shoots forth from some of your fingertips truly amazes me.

Jeepin Ben said "Tebow can't handle failure because he cried after just about every loss." Seriously? The kid cried because he cared. And after Florida's loss to Ole Miss in 2008, he made his famous declaration that he and his team wouldn't be outworked for the rest of the season. What did he and the team do? They won the MNC that year.

So you're right. He can't handle failure. He totally folded every time he suffered any kind of setback. Who wants to win national championships if you have to put up with a kid who's so emotionally involved that he cries after he loses?

JeepinBen

February 22nd, 2010 at 2:03 PM ^

Big brown jug worded things better than me, but yeah, I hate him for being overexposed, and i really dont think he's that talented and I don't think he'll succeed in the NFL for the reasons already stated by everyone else: Too slow, bad motion, etc.

Yes, he did lead a team to a national title after a loss, true. I'm just tired of hearing about him, and all the other BS that comes with it, so the bile came out as a result of the tebow-love that spews from ESPN.

Vick is the best example we have to date of a mobile college quarterback in the NFL and when comparing the two on the field, Vick has WAY more talent than Tebow. I don't see Tebow succeeding at the next level.

Big Brown Jug

February 22nd, 2010 at 12:16 PM ^

I think part of the issue is that Tebow has been so ridiculously over-exposed that justified or not I just want him to fail. The college championships and stats speak for themselves; he deserves to be at least considered among the greatest to play at that level, but now I want him to go away. Get drafted, play a few unremarkable years as a backup, wash out, go back to Florida as an assistant, and leave the NFL to the NFL types. Too much to ask?

OHbornUMfan

February 22nd, 2010 at 12:31 PM ^

So, it took awhile for the "forward passing" thing to really catch on in professional football. It's fairly commonplace now. The west coast offense started small, then spread like a raging case of the herp. Currently we have to suffer through each team's version of the wild - (insert team mascot or derivation here) because of the success of the Wilcat at Arkansas and in the pros with Miami.

Given Vick's initial success with Atlanta and given the success Vince Young occasionally has with the Titans, is it reasonable to assume that the elusive quarterback who can kind of throw will one day be on a substantial amount of NFL rosters? As wide-open as receivers can become when d-backs have to hold coverage for 3 to 4 seconds, is it conceivable that presence in the pocket/elusiveness will become a viable substitute for pinpoint precision?

Peyton Manning is amazing because, among other things, he can put the ball so that his covered receiver and only his covered receiver can make a play on the ball. Evidence - the Super Bowl throw to D. Clark over and between anywhere from 2 - 5 Saints, depending on whether you bite on the hyperbole. However, good coverage + a gamble can still be disastrous. Evidence - that play from the Super Bowl that had something of an impact on the momentum of the game.

A mobile quarterback doesn't need to be as precise. The progression can go like this:
Wide open = throw.
Not wide open = get outside the pocket.
Wide open yet?
If yes, throw.
If no, tuck and run for 3 - 26 yards.
This can really tire out the opposition's rushers and d-backs, and even qb's with suspect accuracy (Vick, Young, Tebow) can usually throw the ball accurately enough to make it work.

So my question is, how long will it be before more NFL teams realize the absolute premium of super-precise and super-accurate arms and take a chance on a more mobile, less accurate qb? I'm guessing somebody will give Tebow a chance, and if he can find a way to shorten his delivery just a little and throw with some accuracy on the run, I think he's got a shot at a Mark Brunell-esque career.

Noahdb

February 22nd, 2010 at 1:00 PM ^

If I want a fullback, why don't I just DRAFT a fullback? You can typically get one of the two or three best FBs in college football in the last couple of rounds of the draft.

If I want a QB, why don't I draft one that doesn't require me to rebuild his entire arm motion?

Tebow is a GOOD athlete, but he's not Michael Vick. He's not Ronald Curry. He's not even "Cholly" Ward (who no one drafted and was every bit as successful as Tebow).

Why doesn't someone put in the Florida offense in the pros? Because NFL teams have people like Julius Peppers playing at DE who would cut the field in half. You really want to roll your QB INTO a guy like that?

The Wildcat works because it puts one more blocker on offense. You've got more guys than the defense at the point of attack. But Tebow is NOT an NFL running back.

This isn't a knock on Tebow as a person. Who gives a damn about that? The guy is NOT an NFL quarterback.

helloheisman.com

February 22nd, 2010 at 1:05 PM ^

If his release is too long as his accuracy suffers, why didn't the Florida coaching staff want to correct this four years ago? Don't programs like to sell the idea that they prepare their kids for the NFL better than the school down the road?

bronxblue

February 22nd, 2010 at 1:24 PM ^

If I remember correctly, they tried to improve his abilities under center in the last offseason with mixed results. He actually had a decent delivery when he first came to UF, but over the years it has degraded to the mega wind-up that we now see. I saw a video on this - cannot find the link - but it was a rather dramatic change. Of course, you figure he can learn to throw better and the accuracy should improve somewhat, but I still think he doesn't have the tools to be a top-notch QB in the pros.

And for all those who point out his accuracy stats as being relatively good, I caution against putting too much stock in those numbers alone. In college, Tebow threw quite a few short-yardage routes and dump-offs with great accuracy but struggled on those sideline throws and deep routes that pro QBs have to hit. I forgot where I read it, but after something like 15 yards, Tebow's accuracy dropped precariously.

jawz

February 22nd, 2010 at 1:35 PM ^

Just because he was good in college doesnt mean he will be good in the NFl. On almost every Nfl scouts board the #1 Qb is bradford why even though he was injured 99% of the season Quick release, accurate, and can read defenses. Now compare that to tim Tebow slow Side arm release, not very accurate, not good at reading D's. why would i draft a QB that i have to teach to do all the important things when i can draft one that already does, because he was good at running over 230 pound lbs evrey time he was at the 5 yard line in college when there are 250-260 pound ray lewis's and bart scotts i dont think he run over those guys, and he not very elusive or fast so you cant compare him to vince young or micheal vick draft, adn he should have learnes how to throw 4 years ago

Magnus

February 22nd, 2010 at 1:37 PM ^

Saying Charlie Ward was "every bit as successful" as Tebow is disingenuous. Tebow has better statistics in almost every category and won two national championships, compared to Ward's one.