You are high
I thought that myself when I read that article that talked about a Data Scientist(tm)
You are high
Stop. Casting. Aspersions. Please. Mom.
I like the idea of putting them up in the Student Athletic Center.. Some took money and they have been punished.. To all that talk shit about Webber, get a life.. WE all love EVERY last second he had a Michigan jersey on, so to give him crap is nonsence.. I agree with Rose also. If you think Michignans endowment is big enough that $250,000 means nothing,you need to get a life.. I hope that he does take the endowment back. Sometimes the arrogance of Michigan Alums, like the ones that wrote those classy letters to Fisher and the team, proves the point of many others...GO BLUE GO FAB FIVE
Get a life??
Cwebb is "me" guy....and you call people who want to hold the university to a higher level arrogant? CWebb is so he can't even admit that he made a mistake.
Who is the arrogant one? The institution with standards, or the guy who cheats and justifies it?
If he took money after he declared, what mistake did he make? There is no proof of when money changed hands and because cwebb has been quiet, he presumed quilty.
The mind's ability to rationalize is a wonderful thing.
If we approach this objectively, the notion that Webber would forego the overtures of Ed Martin for years and then suddenly accept money from him (a money-laundering criminal, mind you) when he turned professional and was free to make money any way he saw fit - is just a tad hard to believe.
Webber only took money after he declared? Where on earth did you get this idea? The proof may not have come out in public, but every investigation led to the opposite conclusion. The FBI's led to people who would know testifying under oath. Webber didn't get banned from UM for not breaking rules.
So you're saying the investigation meant nothing and we were punished based on speculation and hearsay? Brilliant deduction Sherlock.
"Quilty" has to be one of the most hilarious misspellings ever produced here. "He's just a big soft and cuddly basketball player, is all!" Seriously, "q" and "g" aren't even remotely close on the keyboard.
In the documentary, Mitch Albom of the detroit free press who is fround upon around these parts said it best: if Webber took money he must have buried it....what he said thinks happened is that webber took money knowing he was going to declare but before it was official. Most athletes probably do this all the time, getting loans from agents. And just looking back about how the Fab Five was on and off the court; I would think people around the area would have known they were raking in that kind of money they were accused of taking. I think the crew that gets lost in this is taylor, bullock, traylor and white group that also took money. And Jalen is just doing what anyone would do in his position, sticking by his "brother".
And who produced the documentary? It's not exactly a peice that looks at all sides of the issue. Albom, with an ego as big as all outdoors, doesn't want to think he was duped by a college kid.
Just for your edification, and I'm assuming you weren't at a age to really know, there were plenty of rumors about money. I remember when Jalen got his car broken into and claimed that $3,000 worth of car stereo equipment was stolen. That was a lot of money for a poor college student.
I was old enough to follow sports but heard nothing of an investigation or anything. And if there were rumors how come nothing came out until that accident involving mateen cleaves?
Getting caught red-handed breaking rules led to an investigation and rumors didn't? Hard to believe, isn't it?
It's too bad that all those other schools got in trouble with the NCAA because of the random violation investigations that were instituted along with random drug testing. Just got unlucky I guess.
Cleaves was in Mo Taylor's explorer, but it wasn't proof positive that Mateen was on the take, even though they were en route back from Ed Martin's party at the Ren Cen Westin during Mateen's official visit.
the $40000 SUV (titled to Mo's grandma, whose monthly Soc Sec income was less than the car payment) and the off-campus jaunt on an official visit were the 2 threads that unwound the whole thing.
even then, nothing could be proved until UM administrators convinced the feds to make full disclosure on the M basketball scandal a condition of his plea deal. no other school that signed kids out of Detroit asked the feds to do the same, so Martin only came clean on his cash to Michigan bball players.
if we hadn't asked for it, the NCAA investigation would have died. this both sucks (we did it to ourselves) and is admirable (we were the only school that wanted the truth).
MA, I have never fround on him, nor will I in the future. This I do swear.
I'm not quite sure why people look at Jalen's documentary as some kind of Zapruder film. It's a fun movie to watch, but it's pretty silly to think he doesn't have an agenda to advance.
Does anyone else always think of Michigan Sports Center when they see MSC? I think that was / is a Michigan blog.
And MSC is doing the right thing. The reputation of the university is more important than former athletes being happy. Sorry Jalen
Maybe Mary Sue should just call his bluff and send him a check by the close of business. Then he can tweet about that, too.
to take his side and run a with it :/
I wonder is the people who are saying Jalen needs to grow up and stop trying to bring recognition to himself are the same people who didnt want the Fab Five at Michigan in the first place. As much as they we love by many at Michigan, there were many who hated the fab five and what they stood for.
It won't change my opinion, but I like facts.
Coach fisher alluded to letters from alumni where they were called the n-word and how they represent what michigan stood for.
As far as I am aware, there were a handful of such letters. And by that, I mean literally less than a handful. One, two, maybe five. Were there more? I'd like proof. There has never been any.
And, from the days before the internet. Just how many stray emails, internet comments, Tweets are there NOW, from old and/or dysfunctional people now, complaining about things like football players' dreadlocks, or freshman basketball players jumping to the NBA? Using racist language or offensive terminology. Is Michigan currently a racist and discriminatory place?
Fisher, and Mitch Albom, and Webber and anybody else who wants to complain about the Ann Arbor scene when the Fab Five were resident in Ann Arbor are all -- to put it in language befitting this thread -- full of shit. I had season tickets to Michigan basketball to see the Fab Five; I was there, and they were adored. They were celebrated. They were cheered. By all.
That whole "racist letters" thing is probably the stupidest and most pointless story in the history of Michigan athletics. It all boils down to: Aha! There were six cranks in Brighton, or Tuscaloosa, or Escanaba, who decided to write unhinged letters. Shame on Michigan!
Is it really so unbelievable?
Ask John Navarre about how wonderful Michigan fans can be.
You, for one, should know (see; Rich Rod's time at Michigan).
I think your post should say "Ask any athlete how wonderful sports fans can be." The things that happened to them aren't unique to Michigan. They're unique to mankind.
Sports fanbases everywhere are all various shades of the same color gray.
Because it is pointless to have a debate about a handful of cranky letters. They signify nothing. Nothing more, that is, than what we currently see on MLive.com. Cranks, writing cranky-commentary things. That is not a story. Never has been, and never should be.
A real story would be if there had been piles of such letters, and other indicators of a seriously racist element of any considerable size and influence, in any sector of the University of Michigan. That would have been a real story, and it never existed. There's no proof; not even any alleged proof. There is a stray, almost anonymous reference, with lousy attribution, in a throwaway book (one of his innumerable throwaway books) by Mitch Albom. That reference being to one letter, or a couple of letters, or some such reference.
So yes, I call bullshit. Not on the existence of a handful of letters (who cares?); but on the existence of a meaningful story.
And I am not so sure how much of a problem Rich Rodriguez had with Michigan fans. He had a very, very serious problem with a pair of writers at the Detroit Free Press. You know the Free Press; it's the newspaper where Mitch ("The Fab Five") Albom works.
There was a considerable undercurrent of racism, and to deny it is to be willfully ignorant.
Whether it be letters, snide comments, or calls for "returning to Michigan basketball." Beckman was particularly egregious, and there were many like him. It's that soft racism, the "It's not racist, I'm just telling it like it is," stuff.
John Navarre has told stories about sitting and crying with his dad, while listening to hordes of angry phone messages left by Michigan fans.
Michigan fans are by no means special, we can be just as cruel, insane, and vicious as every other fanbase.
"There was a considerable undercurrent of racism ..."
Who? Who was racist? Be specific. I want names, identities. Who were they? What sort of people are you talking about? What positions of power or influence did they hold? How many of these racists were there? Where were they? What exactly did they do or say?
Be very specific. You can't just toss out vague, unclear and unsupported charges of "racism" and get away with it.
I am gonna go waaaay out on limb here, and suggest to you that John Navarre doesn't have much of a place in a discussion of racism. And I am also going to suggest to you that Frank Beckmann (if that is who you are referring to with your misspelled "Beckman,") was as much of a fan of the Fab Five as anybody. Frank was perhaps the first person anywhere to publicize them as a fabulous fivesome; he did it on a football broadcast before any one of the five had ever taken the court in a Michigan uniform.
You can take away the banners. You can act like the games never happened. And you can ignore the players who made the school and program flourish in terms of revenue in ticket sales, merch etc.
But you will NEVER take away the memories.
Easy solution would be to retire Jalen's number. I am sure that would make him happy, a way of honoring the era without honoring the fab five.
i'd be on board with that
Until he acted like a whiney child.
Can't teach children (or grown men) by rewarding poor attitudes and behavior.
I'd be down with that if he'd stayed four years, but he didn't. Those who earn the extremely rare honor of having their jersey retired should be those who stayed here until graduation.
NCAA rules<Federal and state laws. if any banner up in crisler or any U of M venue had players on that team arrested for any reason then they brought shame to the university and those banners should be taken down. to me, taking money isnt nearly as bad as some of the legal shit other players get into. all this shit about the darkest hour of U of M athletic is stupid.
for lying to a federal grand jury on this matter.
took the money so we should never put up the banners because that made him ineligible, where is there proof of when he took the money? I don't believe there has ever been any proof he took anything until his sophomore year. At the very least the banners from the freshmen season should go up.
This has a chance to reignite Michigan basketball for good and I'm all for them going back up.
Raising a pair of 20-year-old banners will "reignite Michigan basketball for good"? I think you're assigning a little too much importance to these things. Besides, I think the program is pretty well on its way as it is.
Forget the whole Fab Five aspect, I say we save our banner raising for championships, whether they be Big Ten Championships or NCAA. Final Fours are nice, but banners are for championships.
final four > conference title
They were, weren't they? For me that's a reason not to put them up: they banners were not earned. And (following this logic/if true) when you discuss the way that other untainted players lost out you say "Exactly. That's why the actions were harmful. They hurt the team, the U," etc. And we can't be party to some kind of sentimental turnaround that says "Now we're going to celebrate that."
This doesn't mean you don't forgive and forget, or welcome Jalen back, etc. But it sure would be a reason not to put the banners back up.
I am a huge C Webb fan, and fan of the Fab V--I adored those guys. But that doesn't mean you put the banners back up. Hell, put the Fab Five's pictures up in the rotunda, etc. But unless I'm missing something, not the banners.
Anti-Establishment: the historical setting justified a degree of disaffection which shaped opinions in which an entrenched disconnect remains. I know it is more justified to defiantly hang the banners. However, I do what I hate; and, in my worthless opinion, defer to the protection of the reputation of the University for the sake of order amidst chaos. Ironically, without my having a platform for addressing any of the real concerns in this case, it sickens me to say, "The better part of valor is discretion.": meaning I agree with MSC by default.
I would appreciate it if MSC would help guide the NCAA with the assistance of the professional sports world; and, for future reference; they together should no longer tolerate punishing the innocent players such as those who were in the program at Michigan when at the time the penalties were imposed without fruitfulness.
Dont' sweat it Jalen, the Fab Five were bigger than any banner, you will get more notoriety the longer MSC prevails with her petty agenda. Like Armando Gallaraga's NOT Perfect Game being more memorable because of the obvious incompetence of the first base umpire. Like Shoeless Joe Jackson and the HOF. Like the Cubbies season and the foul pop down the third base line. You, Jalen Rose, have achieved immoraltality
actually Braylon Edwards is disguise? Or is Braylon just Jalen in disguise? Both spout off a bunch of stupid, self-centered, garabage about their scholarships. I'm sorry but Jalen is just an idiot. He should take his scholarship money and shove it up his ass. Then he can stick to having pissing contests with Skip Bayless.
What's the point of the banner if the NCAA doesn't recognize the games? Should we hang up a fucking Stanley Cup banner in Yost too? Sure, the NHL doesn't recognize that Michigan won a Stanley Cup, but we should honor the greatness of those past teams anyway, right? Hell, the 2011-12 basketball team was pretty good, could we get an NBA Championship banner for them? It's embarassing to even think of a Fab Five banner hanging next to the one the Big 10 championship one won this past season.
no two ways about it. it would be celebrating cheating. understand Jalen will be upset, but that's life.
In my honest opinion if you're younger than 29 (and that's really pushing it) I just don't think you get it. They were the beatles. Nothing was the same after them in the sports world. What athletes wore and how they acted changed. I was a kid from Southern Illinois who had a Jalen Rose jersey. My friend had a Webber and another had King. I got the chance to see them play at Illinois. Love them or hate them, everybody was there to see them. The fab 5 and Desmond Howard would dictate where I would go to school at a very young age.
Webber took money after the national championship and the university was punished for it, but it's time to put the banners back up and honor the past.