Not my favorite source. Not my favorite book. But anyway...
Not my favorite source. Not my favorite book. But anyway...
Says a lot.
It's a very good blog, with some great front-page content, a terrific owner-operator, and many excellent qualities.
And a really big message board, with a huge and non-discerning membership, which like most large crowds, contains a few really smart people, and a whole lot of mass hysteria and occasional psychosis.
Just look at this thread. I used one word in relation to Beilein -- "lukewarm" -- and see what it has led to here. Not one other word of criticism aimed by me at Beilein, and lots of other praise. And still the sort of freakout that we see in many (again, not all) of the comments and the up/down votes.
I would say he's exaggerating a little, but he's not 100% wrong.
Yes he is.
One man's opinion!
This is just annoying
Jack Daniels, always the voice of reason in my world. +1
The coaches... At what point do we say John Beilein is the best coach in Michigan history? Would it be after a NC win?
As for Jalen's comments, I just hope they don't hurt recruiting moving forward. I'm pretty sure we honored him a couple years ago, right? I don't like how he pushed his way into the locker rooms to be with the players after the NC game... Didn't like that at all. Little hypocrisy by Jalen, and he should be humble and let M honor him on their own terms. If I'm the Athletic Dept now I'm LESS enthusiastic about honoring him because it makes it just look like Michigan is doing whatever Jalen Rose says...
I'll sit down with Jalen anytime and argue that Dave Strack was Michigan's best basketball coach. The Cazzie Russell back-to-back NCAA teams. Building the core of the program that led to the Johnny Orr (Strack's groomed assistant) era, when Orr was Michigan's winningest coach.
perspective, but Beilein has already dwarfed all of those guys with his career. Open your eyes--amazing things are happening at Crisler. And it's the prettiest brand of bball in the country.
|Dave Strack||1960–68||113–89||.559||58–54||.518||3 Big Ten Conference Championships (1964, 1965, 1966), 2 NCAA Regional Championships (1964, 1965)|
|Johnny Orr||1968–80||209–113||.649||120–72||.625||2 Big Ten Conference Championships (1974, 1977), 1976 NCAA Regional Championship|
|Bill Frieder||1980–89||191–87||.687||98–64||.605||1984 National Invitation Tournament Championship, 2 Big Ten Conference Championships (1985, 1986)|
|1989 NCAA Tournament Championship, 3 NCAA Regional Championships (1989, 1992*, 1993*), 1997 National Invitation Tournament Championship|
|1998 Big Ten Tournament Championship|
|Tommy Amaker||2001–07||109–83||.568||43–53||.448||2004 National Invitation Tournament Championship|
|John Beilein||2007–Present||136–89||.604||61–53||.535||2012 Big Ten Conference Championship, 2013 NCAA Regional Championship|
on his way. In the process of midgeting, let's say.
I don't consider the 1989 NCAA Championship "his".
Other than the great players he recruited, he did nothing with them in terms of actually winning a championship of some kind.
Also, give Dave Strack the credit for Michigan's best recruiting class ever: the class of 1966--Cazzie Russell, John Clawson, Oliver Darden, Jim Myers, John Thompson.
Whoever the best coach in Michigan history is, it sure as hell isn't Steve Fisher. Sorry, Jalen, but the bad counts along with the good. Same goes for you and everyone else who contributed to the decimation of the Michigan basketball program.
May not have been the best coach but he was pretty damned good and still is!
He knows plenty about coaching basketball, he might well be the best coach ever at SDSU, but he should go down as the worst coach ever at Michigan. Imo, he's the person most culpable for the Ed Martin scandal, certainly much more so than Chris Webber. On top of that, he's the guy who brought Ellerbe to AA.
...to label Fisher as "the person most culpable for the Ed Martin scandal" since Ed was around since the Frieder days and there was a lot of raised eyebrows about Michigan recruiting during the '80s. Ask Georgetown fans from that era about Rumeal Robinson, who went to the same HS as Patrick Ewing and was a Hoya lock until the last minute. Sean Higgins's journey to Michigan wasn't exactly a beacon of virtue, either.
Frieder's lead recruiter?
That's the entire period Ed Martin was supposedly around the program. I've never heard anyone say who first got Martin involved. Fisher may not have been the only coach involved, but I don't have reason to accuse Frieder or anyone else. Fisher did more than look the other way, too. I can't forget that he forged Perry Watson's initials in requesting passes for Ed Martin.
Frieder was in charge. Isn't that enough?
I don't see why it's necessary to choose just one guy for all the blame here. I don't doubt that Fisher had primary responsbility for Martin but I don't see why that exonerates Frieder. There was a lot wrong with the Michigan program well before it metastasized in the Taylor/Traylor years.
it was worse than decimation.
this is not helpful to the program.
Coach Beilein promotes a great family atmosphere among the team. If Jalen has something else in his own bloated head, that's his fault. I think Jalen is about a decade late.
OK, Jalen. Wasn't that Steve Fisher at the final four cheering Michigan on? Also, You?? And I've seen JImmy KIng at Crisler, too.
My favorite topic on this board. Gift that keeps on giving.
I feel like, if my account ever gets banned, it will be in a fab five thread.
Jalen, you know it better than anyone "the team, the team, the team"!
Jalen needs to accept that the Fab Five were a cultural phenomenon that won a lot of games but ultimately left a huge black eye on the program.
Now I tend to end up cringing when they're in the news. Everything with Rose and Webber seems to be about Rose and Webber. To imply that MSU is doing well in football* because Fisher and Webber (?) aren't around the program is absurd.
Let it go, Jalen. Summer is over. The harvest has passed.
*That's what he means by evening the playing field, right?
I read a similar article on MLive. Basically, he wants to see some Fab Five memorabilia and recognition in Crisler.
Honestly, I wouldn't have a problem with it. I understand why the university has been hesitant on how to deal with a black eye, but it would be smart to celebrate what they did, both good and bad, for the program and college basketball.
I don't have a problem with that idea either, but Jalen should make that point to Dave Brandon and the new President. I'm positive he has that kind of access. You don't air your dirty laundry in a public forum.
How about some 1989 and prior memorabilia instead? There hasn't ever been a film or a book documenting the story of Michigan Basketball.
I want stories about the Strack days or Orr era. I want to see some artifacts from Yost Field House.
The mlive story referred to memorabilia to Cazzie, the 89 team and Trey Burke. I'd be fine with them putting up more on the 89 team and Orr. 89 team is way overshadowed in my opinion. Still doesn't mean you can't tell the story of the Fab Five.
part of the subtext here is that there was an opening last year and the admin didn't grab it--in fact, it went conspicuously unaddressed. So once again the team is on the rise and Jalen's feeling left out, and lashes out. . .
Really hate his timing here, and am bothered that this gets pointed at Beilein. But not terribly surprised. These guys have nudged Webber, and they have nudged Brandon, and they are still out in the cold; I think that that would hurt.
Rose, Jackson, Howard, and King can be around Michigan as much as they want, can't they? This isn't meant as a rhetorical question, btw. I'm genuinely confused by the notion that they're out in the cold.
back into the fold and acknowledgement of their achievement. Yeah, they can come to games. But that's quite different from being invited to dinners, to talk to the team.
Yes, they are all welcome. Jalen routinely had his Rose Garden groups at games for years during the late Amaker/early Beilein era. He's been honored on the Crisler Court in recent years. To say they are unwelcome is just wrong.
to buy tickets and attend games and an official embrace for the Fab Five. His comments are not about himself alone. He goes out of his way to note that every last former MSU team member is always invited to MSU events.
Again, I'm unhappy about his remarks. But I think I see what place they're coming from.
Michigan State has never vacated a basketball victory.
When they have, and the players responsible are officially embraced by the university, I'll understand his point.
Paps mentioned it, but a reason I thought this was thread worthy is the idea that the Fab Five era is beyond over.
Jalen mentioned the "best coach ever" and at this point, maybe that's true. But, not for long, I believe.
It's the John Beilein era. The Fab Five is over, it's done and everyone has moved on other than, well, the Fab Five.
Tomorrow night Michigan could make that statement with authority. A win on the road, against MSU to go 7-0 in conference when most were hoping we'd have only 2 losses at this point would be huge.
Of course, legacies are made in the tournament, but in my eyes, the greatest Michigan coach is going to be on the court of Breslin tomorrow night and he'll have a chance to add another bullet point to that claim.
And his donations to create the The Rose Garden are wonderful. But all this talk about honoring the Fab 5 over and over is disgusting to say the least. Webber owes the University of Michigan an apology. Until UM gets that there should be no honoring the Fab 5. But what really irks me is the lack of acknowledgement of the other players on both of those teams by Rose. The Fab 5 did not do everything for those teams. They didn't score all the points, get all the rebounds or block all the shots. Rose acts like the other members of the team were nonexistent or just carried the bags for the Fab 5. If Rose would ask for those Teams to be honored with or without Webber then it might happen. Honoring just five guys from a team is a slap in the face to all the other team members.
This is a great point. If I were any of those guys I'd be pissed. Very selfish of Jalen for trying to talk badly about this program unless there was actually something sinister going on behind the scenes which I'm sure is not happening.
I have been trying to find out when Michael talley's jersey is getting retired but the girl at the ticket office keeps saying that she does not know who that is (and to quit winking at her).
Had the same agent as Kobe Bryant, he would get his due. Whatever happened to Eric Riley? Do he and James Vosguil ever hang out and decry their unappreciation? Maybe....just maybe.
Eric Riley does, in fact, decry their underappreciation...at the time, by their Fab Five teammates and by the head coach.
"We felt like it was split. It felt like it was two different teams," Riley said, referring to the Fab Five and the Wolverines players that were there before their arrival. "We had experience, and some of us had been on a team that won a national championship (1989). But we felt like we were just part of their team."
"That was Coach (Steve) Fisher's first recruiting class. We knew he wanted to bring in his own guys, and he let the upperclassmen pretty much know they didn't want us and we were free to go if we wanted to," Riley said in a phone interview with The News-Herald.
Riley was a 2nd round NBA pick If a player of his talents was left to feel he wasn't wanted and was free to go, something was wrong with the family atmosphere at the time. That's the kind of stuff I hate Calipari for.
OT: Line just opened at MSU -6. Give me Michigan and the points all day.