Also whenever Jalen talks about the Fab 5, that helps recruiting for Beilein.
that's unfortunate, but at least the interest is there on both sides
Also whenever Jalen talks about the Fab 5, that helps recruiting for Beilein.
Yeah, I'm sure it helps recruiting when Jalen says Michigan doesn't have a family atmosphere.... More like whenever Jalen opens his mouth it hurts recruiting
For every negative thing he says about the program (like that) he says like 9 positive. Follow him on Twitter. I'll bet many more 16-18 year olds see him congratulating our guys or shouting out Trey/THJ, and notice that more than an emotional quote (he tends to say these things every once in a while when the old wound is opened).
Plus I don't think recruits are prioritizing what Jalen's opinion is over actual interactions with the coaches.
Double double post y'all!
Jalen would let the thing with Webber just rest. Otherwise I understand where he is coming from. No other school pretends 3 or 4 years of its history doesn't even exist.
Growing up in upstate New York it would have been easy to root for Syracuse like everyone else, but the fab 5 is what got me started on college basketball. Bums me out what happened with Webber, but CWebb, Juwan, Jalen, Ray, and Jimmy introduced me to the excitement of college basketball. I wish everyone could put the disappointments behind them and remember the excitement they created. The misery from 1998-2008 wasn't even that miserable. Just ask Northwestern fans. I knew we'd be back some day. We deserved a few tourney berths we didn't get anyway, as evidenced by our NIT success.
It wasn't that miserable?
It was beyond miserable. It was bullshit. It was a constant mess. It was humiliating and frustrating in an epic sense.
As someone who started rooting for this program long before that team sparked your basketball jones, I spent ten years of my basketball life locked inside an airproof case, howling into a vacuum.
As I say above, it was certainly not all on them, but those ten years were preposterous. And this is coming from someone who still made sure to attend every one of those NIT appearances in person, even if it killed me a litle inside to watch us dancing so far off broadway.
...terrible coaching by Tommy did. We prolonged our pain by being bad at basketball. Don't act like the sanctions made us suck until the Beezer era...they helped early on, but really, Ellerbe and then Tommy just blew. You can't blame our "lost decade" on sanctions alone.
Dammit, what the heck do you think the following means: "As I say above, it was certainly not all on them, but those ten years were preposterous."
That means... please see my post above. Aka, please incorporate my prior post in this thread by reference.
And I think that post had a fairly sensible take on the whole thing.
Also: "it was certainly not all on them" means... "it was certainly not all on them."
But if you don't think the sanctions were a large part of the university losing interest in the basketball program and that this did not have consequences, I think you are misguided.
Tommy blew in his own special way, but he also had an uphill battle with some truly sad lack of support.
To point up further that Beilein is just that freaking awesome, he is not only a fantastic coach, but he busted his rear to raise the money to create more favorable conditions for the program he was engaged in resuscitating.
Sorry that your post was the one I jumped on. Your post(s) were spot on and identified the sanctions as only part of the problem. Mea culpa. I was trying to respond more generally to the fact that we really dug this hole ourselves in terms of how we responded following the sanctions. I don't want to compare apples to oranges, because all sanctions are different and ours were no doubt severe, but when I watch something like OSU football suffer on the field for one year and then turn around and set fire to the conference, it just reminds me that too many Michigan fans, and people on this board in particular, overstate the impact of the sanctions. Tommy Turtleneck underachieved for what, 7 years? You can maybe blame the first two on the sanctions, but if Beezer (and I realize he is once on a generation talent but it still fits the point) took over back in 02 or whenever it was we would have been back much sooner and part of the ire toward the fab five would be lessened. At least I think it would.
But again, you are right I didn't digest that part if your post. Please accept an upvote as an apology.
No worries. Thanks for the second read. I get kind of shirty (people seemed to have fun with that one) when people glance and attack - but I appreciate the further response.
As to OSU, here's what I posted in another thread where Fisher and the sanctions came up - I think it's really important to remember where that bunch is concerned:
OSU also always gets a freaking slap on the wrist because those fucking scumbags have choked the corridors of power with ex-Buckeyes and they hire people who are part of the NCAA crony factory.
OSU's punishment for cheating in bkb was that they got to recruit the #1 class in the country. That is bullshit.
They went nuclear in the facilities arms race, and that helped, but just like their punishment in football was that they got to bring in Urban Meyer they got off easy in bkb. Because the NCAA sucks and the Buckeyes work that so ably.
I honestly don't think I know a Michigan fan who does not like/love the Fab 5.
Jalen represents the University of Michigan very, very well. He has contributed more to the University than most of us. You don't have to like him, but you do have to respect him. If you didn't see the Fab Five in action, do yourself the favor.
Go Jalen! Go Blue!!
Jalen used to represent the University well.
Then he followed up putting his name on a high school ("'Jalen Rose' Leadership Academy") with a DUI.
Then he bashed the current Michigan basketball program, as well as Beilein, for not having family values.
I'm done with him. He is a TV charicature along the lines of SAS, Skip Bayless, and others that through around baseless opinions for shock value.
he lost me at the whole "family values are better at State than Michigan" crap. How did that work out for State? They are a "hot pile of garbage"** right now.
**front page, yesterday, seeding column, by one of the dudes who runs MGOBLOG
Yeah, anyone with a DUI who even THINKS about doing something charitable should be flayed!!!
Sarcastic, obviously. Yeah he got a DUI. A dangerous mistake. But he's doing plenty good with his life, fame, and money. He's opinionated and you don't like it because sometimes he says things that don't praise our university. Obviously has a small axe to grind, but overall he's been tremendously supportive of our coaches, program, and current/former players.
He said it best - "Should I do like the rest of ex-UM players and never come back?" Love him or hate him, he's among the best and most visible alumni was have. He's overall great for our program and does indeed support us plenty.
He named a high school after himself. Called it a "Leadership Academy." Then got a DUI.
It's not the DUI in isolation that I'm pointing out.
He very much could have anonymously given the money. Or given the money and not put his name on the school. Or taken his name off the school after the DUI. He's not exactly acting like a role model that those inner-city kids in Southfield need.
Do you have an issue with everyone who's donated wads of cash to a school and has their name on it? Just look at our campus and you'll find buildings, schools and job titles with a living person's name on it. And they got their name there by making a sizeable donation. I'm not naive to think he's there every week or even every month for meetings, but that school does not happen without his name, cash and star power behind it.
Also, the school is in Detroit, not Southfield.
I lived too long of my life in the Virginia area around Robert E. Lee this or Stonewall Jackson that to get unnerved about a person's name on something. He got popped for a DUI, made his apology, fulfilled his obligation to society, and resumed being a very successful person.
All I need to do is look at Darren Sharper to appreciate what he's done and how he's conducted himself after his playing career concluded.
Backhanded stab? More just a love for his coach. Rose has a high opinion of Beilein, he's said it before.
Seriously show me where Rose has taken a shot at Beilein. And no, "Coach K is a great coach" doesn't qualify.
Tell me you didn't laugh when you saw a picture of him hammered at a party at IU last year.
I don't know if five freshmen starters will get to the title game again. I got my first bald head after the FF, minus J. Howard, got theirs.
I like how you misspelled "a lot" and abbreviated random words like "people" but you threw in the word "vociferous."
But to your point, Jalen is the basketball equivalent to Braylon. So no.
I have a Stag Model 2T mounted with a Bushnell red/green dot reticle. What's pictured here?
...I was testing the AR market and went all in with Stag. Don't get me wrong, I love the gun but it is a notch below Daniel Defense as far as quality of the barrel and the bolt carrier. Nice!
Nationally, that's just not true.
Waiting to get into work to login to the desktop- to downvote
Have jobs now?
...and helpful. I remember the agony (and drink to forget) of the consequences as well as anyone, but I also remember the joy of being a UM fan during their run.
Given the recruit and current player reaction to the 30 for 30, they're still relevant and resonate today. They did "revolutionize" (using the term lightly) CBB and changed the way many perceived MBB (mostly in a good way).
At this point, I see no good from holding a grudge about the "agony" we all felt. Penance was imposed and performed.
Whatever good can come from embracing the Fab 5 again...let's get on with it.
I've heard on this subject... and only 46 points... Kudos BlueKoj.
But there's no way you can say the sanctions, FBI investigation, etc didn't hurt M basketball and the university in general. In fact these things begat the neglect of the program once the full roll of Ed Martin was known. It was shameful.
I appreciate Jalen for his knock on Skip Bayless.
The fact that Skip Bayless is rich and famous for doing what he does makes me either hopeful or fills me with disgust/despair. It all depends on the last ridiculous thing I inadvertently hear from him.
I have no problem dogging Webber, but people who get their panties in a twist about Jinx have no sense of context and scope. He loves the school and played damn well for us. Enough said. Sure, does he opine to the point of nonsense? Yes. Is a Fab 5 apologist (save Webber, the only real villain)? Yes. But so am I.
I will take his segments on Grantland over anything else on the ESPN site in a heartbeat and he is a great analyst (meaning entertaining). Give up the ghost.
I love how so many fans equate the sanctions to just the Fab Five. Michigan received the sanctions because of the money Chris Webber, Louis Bullock, Maurice Taylor, and Robert Traylor took from Ed Martin. Webber, Bullock, Taylor, and Traylor are deleted from all Michigan record books. Several players not implicated in the scandal continue to be listed among the school's honorees such as Rob Pelinka (Walter Byers Scholarship, 1993), Juwan Howard and Jalen Rose (All-American, 1994) and Jerod Ward (All-Big Ten Tournament Team, 1998). Ray Jackson and Jimmy King were not implicated either. So let's trash the entire Fab Five because of what Webber, Bullock, Taylor, and Traylor did to Michigan's program. That makes sense.
I like Jalen a lot, but am sick of the Fab Five talk. They won nothing and played in the early 1990s; this is 2014 and I love this year's and last year's team more than any Michigan team I have seen.
If the Fab Five won nothing then last year's team won nothing either...
Man, Michigan fans suck so much....
Don't we at least need a counter to having to listen to herb kirkstreet all football season?
Isnt that what Desmond Howard is for?
The dumbass hattery with Kirk is strong. It takes 2 UM slappies to overcome that much douchebaggery.
People getting mad the Fab Five need to get a life. The University made more money on those guys than was accepted by the players themselves. The University could still sell Fab Five gear if it wanted. Regardless of what U of M does, those guys aren't just Michigan icons, they're cultural icons whether people like it or not.
Basketball Team + Cultural Icon. They were great at basketball and making Ice Cube watch our games. They didn't invent basketball, but they made it more popular. They didn't invent long, baggy shorts (Illini 1989 wore them), but they made it popular.
I won't justify anyone breaking the rules because "they were being profitted off of". But I will say that the lucrative Nike deal they inked may not have been as lucrative without them.
Alot of ppl now a days dont even know the history of the team
I'm not anti-Fab Five by any means, but the idea that they are a "forgotten team from the past" is kind of funny.
Michigan would to well if all our former players loved the university as much as Jalen does.
Quit hating, haters. (sorry, I mean haterz)
Jalen is a great representative for our university. No, he is not perfect, but no one is. Let's not eat our own when his/her intentions are good. He loves BLUE.
Jalen Rose and the rest of the Fab Five cared nothing about UofM. They were all about themselves. UofM just happened to be a convenient means of showing off. They have never demonstrated any appreciation for the UofM and deserve the same in kind.