A little more Urban renewal
Berry's high school coach told The Dispatch, "From the conversation he had with the coaches, it didn't appear that they were excited about him being [there]."
A little more Urban renewal
Berry's high school coach told The Dispatch, "From the conversation he had with the coaches, it didn't appear that they were excited about him being [there]."
Long overdue. Seemed to have plenty of talent, but something is definitely off with him.
Hasn't he had some legal troubles though? Or am I thinking of the wrong guy?
I think Urban is slimey, but I can see booting Berry as legit.
He's had some legal problems.
Isn't Berry the guy that had the really weird on-campus assault where he basically tackled and started punching some random student in the OSU equivalent of the diag?
Maybe I'm mixing him up with another Buckeye (go figure) but I don't blame Meyer if it's the same kid - he's had multiple run-ins with the law.
I'm sorry but if Meyer HADN'T booted Berry this board would be up in arms about his running a renegade team that is basically a work-release program on grass.
Berry is bad news (allegedly) and I think Meyer should be commended for showing him the door....not criticized.
Meyer doesn't deserve to be commended quite yet. The only reason he's not giving Berry more of a chance, is because he doesn't need him right now. There were dozens of these cases at Florida and Utah, and he kept the player, if that player were at a dire need position. He's also in a spot right now, where he knows the compliance department at OSU is going to be stricter than the Nuns at my Catholic high school. OSU's margin for error in questionable player conduct is razor thin.
Not to mention the fact that he needs room for Diggs.
Word around the SEC, is that it's Florida for Diggs. The top two are Florida and Maryland, but Florida is the clear favorite.
The last point you raise is what an OSU-fan friend of mine has said repeatedly. Meyer apparently came in and told everyone that there would be no room at all for slip ups. He is very aware of a potential NCAA hammer coming down. This was hard to take for some on the team, b/c Tressel was (for good and for bad) very slow to kick anyone off.
But the probation violation hammer is still in the tool belt and I don't think Emmert can pull Gee and Co. clear of that one if it falls.
If he boots Berry he does. If you were around here during his hiring at OSU you'd have learned the following about Meyer:
1. He's degenerate liar that only gets recruits cause he LIES. He might be the biggest liar of any lying liar anyone on the board has ever seen or heard from.
2. He's a cheat who will do anything to take players. The ONLY reason a handful of recruits decided on OSU over Michigan was because of either money or mulitple coeds found in their room during their official visits.
3. Did i mention he lies a lot? Wow does he ever.
I understand that you've followed him more closely recently during his stint in Florida via your affiliation with Alabama but the dude can flat out coach and is one hell of a recruiter. He might be total pond scum as a person (Florida coed...cough...cough...health issues...cough...more time with family) but the levels which we go to castigate the guy are unreal. And in this case he booted somebody from the team that DESERVED TO BE BOOTED.
The guy has my scumbag meter needled. I trust my intuition over carefully laid out facts. You can manipulate facts (but OSU nevvver does that) but you cannot trick someone's gut. I've very rarely been wrong about someone after watching their actions for more than a few minutes. There is a very, very small chance that this guy is anything but a dirtball. I felt that way prior to his OSU hire, its not because I want a reason to hate him. Call it unprompted haterism, but it won't change my opinion.
In this case the benefit of his football team aligned itself with the 'right' decision. This is a situation that does not prove his meddle one way of the other.
I sure hope you work in law enforcement. A talent like you possess "I've very rarely been wrong about someone after watching their actions for more than a few minutes." coupled with "I trust my intuition over carefully laid out facts" would do wonders for reducing street crime i would think.
Not a cop, although the court of public law and the court of public opinion are two completely seperate things. I wouldn't imprison someone that I thought could be an axe murderer, but I sure as hell wouldn't let them watch my kid. Don't you think perception and intuition plays a key part in day to day interactions? Have you ever disliked anyone for no reason in particular, just a vibe they give off? Take the high road on that last question...
We have a saying in the south, and it pretty much holds true for all situations. That saying goes "You put a fox in the hen house, and you'll have chicken for dinner every night". That is to say, that Urban hasn't changed a bit, and the things you're saying, the south has knows for quite some time. Now realize, that I never said that the guy couldn't coach, I've always given him his due.
Also, the levels in which you guys castigate him, is no where near the level of HATRED people in the south have for him. Football is religion in the south, people are unreasonable, and they have no rational sense when it comes to football.
He seems weasely to me, but I only have a two concrete stories of him doing anything wrong: 1. Telling Jevan Snead that he wasn't recruiting Tim Tebow as a QB, and 2. Telling Darryl Stonum that Lloyd Carr's staff had told them (the Fla. coaches) that they (Carr's staff) didn't think Stonum would fit in Rodriguez's offense.
I'll be more than happy to go back and get that info, I just can't really do it at work. Saturday will be a good day for me to do it,
I don't think Meyer is not a cheat, but I also don't have any good reasons to think he is one.
I would like nothing more than a well laid-out argument on why not to like our biggest rivals' coach. Give us all you've got.
No you wouldn't. Just above you said, " I trust my intuition over carefully laid out facts"
Ha! A good point. However what I truly enjoy are carefully laid out facts which coincide with my opinion. That's the coup de grace...
Get yourself up to 100 points so you can make your own original post. Upvoted.
lol who is this guy? The first time I heard a Tennesseean say the fox-in-the-hen-house phrase was my first year of law school in Contracts I. It didn't make sense then.
We've become very Penn State-ish in our quickness to accuse Meyer of cheating. I've read of at least two occasions when he seems to have pretty obviously lied to recruits, but that only makes him sort of dirty. I reminds me of this exchange from the Royal Tenebaums:
I would amend this to say that the compliance department is going to be as strict as the NCAA in a case regarding one of their marquee cash cows. Meyer is telling his players they need to be on their best behavior... until he can sniff out all the new watchdogs and find a way around them. Those morans still think they did nothing wrong.
Substitute Gee and Smith (AKA George McFly and Richard Pryor):
An Alabama fan criticizing another school for kicking off a player who's been charged with possession and assault. That's rich.
Tho,this was standard operating procedures within CERTAIN programs in the S.E.C. um finds himself not landing on a clean mattress. The dirty soiled brown spot is decades of cheating. Safe to say razor thin is how this program has operates. Football(rec league~the league)played in the south has its own meaning.
That's not totally fair.
There were rumors Urban Meyer started the fire. Supposedly the "83rd" scholarship player also lived there.
Not that kicking a kid out for these types of run-ins with the law isn't justified (although Meyer didn't seem to do it at Florida). The end of the article about Meyer making room to get to one under the limit is pretty telling.
Edit: Also, this is what I call a bust. The thread about BWC glosses over the fact that he is giving 4 hard years to the program and will probably leave with a degree. He didn't make his own rating.
Maybe room for Diggs when he announces tonight. Say it ain't so...
that he can become morally upright now that he has recruit numbers to rectify
Wasn't this supposed to happen before Meyer even got there? I'd love to criticize Urban Meyer for being a sleaze, but I'm going to wait until he's done something sleazy to do it.
Wait until he does something sleazy??? You mean to say, wait until he does something sleazy while at OSU... right?
Yes. I didn't mean to imply that he hadn't done anything sleazy yet. Sleazy people are capable of reasonable acts, though. I'll call him on his shit as the moment arises (which it undoubtedly will). In the meantime, this needed to happen.
It definitely seems like this kid had it coming, the coincidence of spots opening up just makes it easy to judge. Despite our TREMENDOUS class this year, there is a a natural tendency to passive aggressively hate on any incident that falls favorably for Ohio
Regardless of whether Berry deserved it or not, cutting him should have happened before National Signing Day to remove the impression of oversigning-based cutting.
That should be the rule; cuts before anyone signs.
Everyone in the know knew Berry was gone weeks ago. For whatever reason they decided not to go public with this and I'm willing to bet at least 2-3 other cases of kids who are gone. I don't know if it's to let the kids find new schools to transfer to first, or to let them finish the semester out, whatever. It makes it look like they have an oversigning problem.
It's not a question of whether or not Berry deserves to be kicked off the team, it's a question of whether Meyer would change that decision if Berry were good at football. Based on past actions, Berry would not be gone if he could play.
It really did turn out convenient that lots of these "troublemakers" at OSU were also not so good at football. Oh well.
Have to respectfully disagree with you here. Berry was a 5 star recruit at running back, and as an Ohio State fan I can tell you that when Urban was hired we were all giddy about the possibility of seeing Berry's unreal Florida God-given speed and athleticism in Meyer's spread offense. He never got on the field because of off-the field issues and legal problems. And he was gone before signing day. If you checked 11W and other OSU-blogs this was known in January. Unsure why it just now this has become "public" but it is what it is.
As someone pointed out earlier, Meyer could cure cancer and you guys would come up with some conspiracy theory for it. It's OK to commend a rival coach once in a while. We give Hoke props now and then when it is due. This rivalry is built on respect, not hatred. Seems like you guys have forgotten this.
"It's OK to commend a rival coach once in a while. We give Hoke props now and then when it is due. This rivalry is built on respect, not hatred. Seems like you guys have forgotten this."
Is this like self deprecating sarcasm or something? If not, the irony is rich.
I agree (or would like to at least)... And I hear stuff like this from Michigan fans all of the time. But it may be the first reasonable thing I've ever seen online from a Buckeye on the matter.
Not self-deprecating sarcasm. Just my observation after having visited this board off-and-on for the last couple months since the Urban hiring at tOSU. Seems like most of the posters here hate Urban Meyer and he hasn't even coached his first Spring game yet. I can't speak for all Buckeye fans, obviously, but most of the fans I know, including myself, do not hate Hoke. We may make jokes about him or tease UM fans about his folksy quirks, but we don't spew any venom or call the guy a sleazeball.
I am old enough to remember the Bo-Woody days, and as much as we didn't like each other, we sure as heck respected each other.
True this, w/r/t Bo and Woody. Unfortunately, that was the last time I had respect for your program. Over 30 years ago. And I don't feel good saying that - just sad.
All very good points that are well taken, but... we all know that Urban Meyer would NEVER cure cancer as it would make it more difficult for him to grayshirt out undesirables from the roster /rabblerabble. ;)
Seriously, though, I agree that Jamaal Berry was just someone who had to go irregardless of OSU's recruiting situation and it's a big stretch to link it to Meyer's "oversigning" Lane fkn Kiffin would've kicked Berry off the team. (On the flip side, you could probably whack a sack of buckeye nuts on your browser keyboard and probably find an OSU message board frothing with equally scurrilous talk about how Brady Hoke was 'negatively recruiting' OSU vis-a-vis Kalis).
"This rivalry is built on respect, not hatred. Seems like you guys have forgotten this."
If some Michigan fans are not giving OSU or their coach "respect" I would argue that it is precisely because we have NOT forgotten.
Not forgotten what OSU did for the better part of your last coach's tenure.
Not forgotten what your current coach did for the entirety of his last stop.
I actually had quite a bit of respect for LF and how he handled himself through the mess he was handed.
And for my part, I don't hate OSU or Meyer, I have more of a dislike tending toward indifference. They are part of what is ruining college athletics.. not sure how else I am suposed to feel.
Well, whether your post above about Berry being cut because he is bad at football was motivated out of hatred or otherwise, it doesn't make it any more logical or correct. Berry was cut because of his off-the field issues. He clearly didn't have any problems on the field. And he would have been perfect in Urban's offense. Saying otherwise is, respectfully, just silly.
Maybe it's because we're finally returning in kind. Because for 20 years Buckeyes have degenerated into a win at all cost bunch of frothing at the mouth subhumans. You have an environment at your stadium that borders on dangerous, and have people who aren't even rivals from as far away as Texas saying it's the worst road visit they've ever been on. And you've cheated for a decade, and gotten a wrist slap over it. If anything, people are just tired of OSU getting rewarded for bad behavior. Start acting like someone worthy of respect, and you'll get it back. We haven't done anything to lose it. You might want to remember the higher standards Ohio State once held their program to. If you get back there, the respect will come naturally.
Unless you can point to anything Urban Meyer has done as the head coach of tOSU that merits a loss of respect everything you just wrote above sounds like someone who is scared of Urban Meyer. Tressel is gone. Pryor is gone. The NCAA had a full investigation and levied its punishment. Urban Meyer has never been sanctioned or investigated by the NCAA.
Your post makes no sense. You don't see tOSU fans blaming Hoke for the things that Rich Rod did at UM that resulted in the NCAA coming down on you guys.
Maybe in this board trashing Urban Meyer for no reason makes you guys sleep better at night. But I assure you it comes off like a fan base that is scared of someone who hasn't even been on the job for 3 months! Have you noticed Hoke doesn't cry and whine about Urban Meyer? Take after your head coach and focus on your team and how it will perform on the field.
I seem to remember a few UM fans saying similar things when RR was hired..."You're just trashing RR because you're scared". We all know how that worked out.
I can't think of any UM fans who are scared of Urban Meyer. The only time we faced him and his formidable florida Gators we beat their ass. Also, if you go back and look at the history of the blog, none of us ever liked him prior to coming to Ohio (for very good reasons), so what would make you think signing with our rival would change that? I think you need to get some thicker skin ir stop following the blog of a rival school...either is fine by me.
But where did I even bring up Urban Meyer? We were talking about the school, and the fans. I don't get what Meyer has done on the job in a month has anything to do with anything. If Charlie Manson opened a day care and seemed to be running it well for a month, it wouldn't excuse what he's done in the past. Meyer's Florida teams have a long arrest record, and he has a history of being a whiner, and flat out dishonest. (The fact that he's coaching your team is proof enough of that). The NCAA is a joke. And Ohio did a good job chasing Pryor and Tressel and everyone involved away so they didn't have to talk to the NCAA and so things can really come out. It's not just coincidence that Clarrett, Troy Smith, and Pryor all have had the same problems...getting paid! It's a pattern. I don't blame Meyer for it. I blame the school. And everyone else at the school is still employed. And the NCAA did jack shit about it.
And no one at your school has been able to do anything about their fans making it look like Cavemen have manners. That's continued through multiple coaches now. Till you can all start acting like you've evolved from the Cro-Magnon stage, the last people in the world who should be talking about respect are Ohio fans. Till you can give some, don't expect any.
And comparing what Rich did to what just went down at Ohio State is stupid. Which makes you look stupid. I'm sure you'd compare your last traffic ticket to Charlie Manson too. If you want to compare your 200 or whatever secondary violations or whatever to that, have at it. If you want to compare players getting paid to that, you're an idiot.
There are some whistling past the graveyard, and afraid of Meyer. I'm not one of them. I think it sucks that you get rewarded for cheating, and then the NCAA gives you a reach around to boot by letting him recruit and further rewarding you for cheating. But afraid? No, I wasn't under the impression that Ohio State was going to suck, no matter who they hired. I much more care about how we do. Because when we're doing well, and Ohio State isn't cheating even excessively for them, we were pretty much regularly beating your asses. wo if Urban can keep his nose clean (which we all have doubts), I'm not that worried about Ohio State. But then, I never expected them to stink either.
So take your own advice, and think and talk about your own team. And leave.
Sounds like we'll have plenty to complain about regarding Urban Meyer and his methods but I don't think this is one of those cases. I seem to recall at least two instances last year where Jamal Berry was either in a fight or just plain attacked another student on the quad. The articles posted here about the incidents seemed to indicate Berry had either a drug problem or perhaps mental health issues.
Anyway I hope the kid gets well and gets to play football again one day.
Get back to me in August when the count actually counts. I trust Urban when he says we are at 81. I think, like Berry's case, there are others who will leave at the end of this semester. We only know Berry is gone "officially" because he has legal trouble and his attorney told us he's no longer on the team. There will be other "official" anouncements later, I can promise you that.
We aren't over the limit now. Guys who have signed LOI are not scholarships until classes start, and guys on scholarship from last year aren't necessarially garunteed on scholarship for next year until classes start. So I'm no say we are being allowed to exceed the maximum. I'm saying we aren't over maximum at all. It's accounting. You don't credit or debit the account until the money is given or received (on cash basis method).
Listen, you can make me eat my words in August if we are at 83+. Because that would be against the rules and I'd be one of the first ones with a pitchfork outside the Woody. There would be no excuse for it.
He knows damn well that unlike his stints at BGSU, Utah and Florida, he's now coaching at a school that is officially on NCAA probation. He's not going to eff around with players already entangled in legal matters. He's going to try to shake all that crap out the so called "trouble-makers" - or at least be seen as doing so - as a preventative measure. In this new situation, he's simply not going to get away with 25+ player discipline issues inside of 2 years like he did at Florida. Or at least, not without paying a price.