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It's OK to give MSU credit and vice versa

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:18 AM
#1
RationalMSUfan
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Joined: 04/15/2010
MGoPoints: 310
It's OK to give MSU credit and vice versa

Granted it's talk radio so the boob % is exceptionally high, but UM fan's refuse to give MSU any credit for their win at OSU. Our defense is not good, OSU's offense is just awful and every other Big Ten team will shut them out too.

Conversely, UM still stinks according to MSU fans.

As with most things in life, the truth is somwhere in the middle, but after five weeks of football, I feel confident stating:

1. MSU has a good defense.  Are they world beaters like LSU? Probably not, but I think they will be in the top 3 of Big Ten defenses this year.

2. Michigan's Defense has improved.  I still expect them to give up some points to B1G Ten teams not named Minnesota, but their defense has made SIGNIFICANT strides from last year.

3. Denard is still electric.  The key to UM's B1G Ten season will be whether he can avoid costly interceptions in the passing game that plagued him last year and make enough passing plays to keep defenses honest.

4. MSU's offense will be fine, but not great. I'm going out on a limb here and I don't expect a ton of agreement, but the OLine actually showed a pulse against the Buckeyes and while it will not be a plus line this year, I think it will be competent. MSU actually had 9 drives in OSU territory only to come away with 10 points. I'm not sure if that is good or bad, but we moved the ball well on the road against what is still a good OSU defense.  If the defense really is very good, then MSU's offense doesn't have to be great to compete for  the Legends Division.

Which leads me tooo.......

5. The Legends division really is up in the air.  Wiscy seems to have a stranglehold on the Leaders, but I can see Nebraska, Michigan, MSU and even Iowa all competing for title. Northwestern really hurt their chances of being a dark horse contender by blowing that lead against Illinois.

I still expect MSU to retain the Paul Bunyan Trophy game this year, but if they do, it doesn't mean that Michigan stinks.  Conversely, if Michigan beats us (which is entirely possible), I will tip my cap.

I love the B1G Ten Season because the truth is in the pudding and we will all know in the next 9 weeks.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:20 AM
#2
ldoublee
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Joined: 06/22/2009
MGoPoints: 5406
Good points

Fuck Dantonio.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:46 AM
(Reply to #2) #3
Section 1
Section 1's picture
Joined: 06/29/2009
MGoPoints: 16556
Or, stated another way;

We went for years, through good times and bad, co-existing with MSU coaches whom we wanted to beat, but never really hated.

Duffy Daugherty was a grand character; one of the great people in his profession.  Perles was a character as well, and though he pulled off an upset or two against us, he had bigger problems than "Michigan," and he was a hard guy to actually hate.  Darryl Rogers made no secret of his desire to beat Michigan, but he was first and foremost a coaching technician.  Despite his "arrogant asses" comment (and I was one of the only Michigan grads in the room at the time he said it -- I laughed my arrogant ass off at the time) there wasn't any "hate" with Darryl Rogers.

Mark Dantonio HATES Michigan and everything about it.  And so, the feeling is mutual.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:07 AM
(Reply to #28) #4
ldoublee
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Joined: 06/22/2009
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I gave the Reader's Digest

I gave the Reader's Digest version of that.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:08 AM
(Reply to #49) #5
Section 1
Section 1's picture
Joined: 06/29/2009
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And I approve, naturally.

+1.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:22 AM
#6
hennesbe
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Joined: 09/11/2011
MGoPoints: 415
I don't ever want MSU or OSU

I don't ever want MSU or OSU to win and don't care who they are playing.  I don't root for either.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:24 AM
(Reply to #3) #7
theyellowdart
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Joined: 09/03/2008
MGoPoints: 1188

Nobody is talking about rooting for them. its about being respectful and honest about them. there is a huge huge difference.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:35 AM
(Reply to #4) #8
ldoublee
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Joined: 06/22/2009
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who

who

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:02 AM
(Reply to #24) #9
Wenham Wolverine
Joined: 08/10/2010
MGoPoints: 1982
MIKE JONES

MIKE JONES

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:24 AM
(Reply to #3) #10
theyellowdart
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Joined: 09/03/2008
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Nobody is talking about rooting for them. its about being respectful and honest about them. there is a huge huge difference.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:25 AM
(Reply to #3) #11
theyellowdart
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Joined: 09/03/2008
MGoPoints: 1188

Nobody is talking about rooting for them. its about being respectful and honest about them. there is a huge huge difference.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:25 AM
(Reply to #3) #12
theyellowdart
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Joined: 09/03/2008
MGoPoints: 1188

Nobody is talking about rooting for them. its about being respectful and honest about them. there is a huge huge difference.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:25 AM
(Reply to #3) #13
theyellowdart
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Joined: 09/03/2008
MGoPoints: 1188

Nobody is talking about rooting for them. its about being respectful and honest about them. there is a huge huge difference.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:26 AM
(Reply to #9) #14
TTT
Joined: 05/31/2011
MGoPoints: 606
Whoa.

Mad skills.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:27 AM
(Reply to #9) #15
sheepman
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Joined: 02/05/2009
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the old quintuple post. Nice!

the old quintuple post. Nice!

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:28 AM
(Reply to #9) #16
jcgold
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Joined: 07/27/2009
MGoPoints: 2985
Many many posts at the same

Many many posts at the same time....so hot right now

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:24 AM
#17
MichLove
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Joined: 08/31/2010
MGoPoints: 452
Iowa

I would be shocked if Iowa had anything to say about the winner of the division - I believe things come down to NEB, MSU, and MICH

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:25 AM
#18
MAero
Joined: 10/02/2011
MGoPoints: 6
Looking forward to MSU-UM

More so than Nebraska. Notwithstanding the Notre Dame loss, this should be the most evenly-matched game left on our schedule.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:29 AM
#19
mgokev
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Joined: 06/17/2009
MGoPoints: 12201
You have a appropriate user

You have a appropriate user name.

I also agree with you, however I put a little less credence in MSU's performance vs OSU.  I think it all hinges more on Cousins and his mistakes.  MSU didn't look good against FCS Youngstown State, got stomped by ND, and didn't look impressive against OSU.  I think OSU is around the same talent level as a Penn State or Iowa.  I think what hurts MSU in perception is that this OSU team is also missing their starting LT, RB, and WR.

MSU doesn't pass the "eye test" to me thus far, however the talent is there if they can bring it all together. 

I see MSU finishing the year at 8-4 to 9-3 and at best, second in the Legends, but likely third.

That is all.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:27 AM
#20
yeahrice
Joined: 09/09/2011
MGoPoints: 277
Obviously we don't want to

Obviously we don't want to give you credit because OSU didnt have all their players, but in reality it doesn't matter. Props to the Spartans for getting a tough road win. I agree with most of your points but I am not convinced by your argument that the MSU offense will be fine. I would be concerned that you moved the ball into OSU territory with relative ease but only scored 10 pts. Was that a result of OSU starting to play once they were on their side of the field or something else? October 15 will be a very interesting game

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:30 AM
(Reply to #14) #21
EGD
EGD's picture
Joined: 09/16/2009
MGoPoints: 26589
MSU

Cousins threw a pick in the end zone, had another play where the ball dropped out of his hand while he was trying to throw it (ala Tommy Rees), one missed FG, and then there was a smattering of traditional Sparty drive-killing penalties.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:45 AM
(Reply to #20) #22
MI Expat NY
Joined: 07/24/2008
MGoPoints: 7498
That missed FG was 51 yards

That missed FG was 51 yards into the wind, I believe.  Should have been a punt or an attempted fourth down conversion.  

I'm not really sure I understand the argument that the scoreboard didn't reflect MSU's offensive performance.  Despite having reasonably good starting field position (average at the MSU 34 yardline) MSU only entered the red zone twice all game, and that's only if you count the 33 yd TD pass as being in the red zone.  And only one other time were they any closer than long FG distance, they were at the 25 when Cousin's fumbled.  

So lets be generous and give them two more FGs, or even a touchdown and a FG, that's 16-20 points in 13 possessions with good field position.  That's at best ok offense, but probably a poor showing, even against a good defense.

I'm willing to give MSU credit for a solid defensive performance, it wasn't all OSU incompetency, but I'm not giving MSU credit for a good offensive performance, MSU didn't do anything Toledo or Miami didn't do, and they aren't exactly BCS level offensive juggernauts.  

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October 3rd, 2011 at 12:26 PM
(Reply to #59) #23
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 56299
It was not a great offensive

It was not a great offensive performance by MSU.  They struggled to run the ball and were just 3-14 on third downs.  Their lone TD was a risky throw into double-coverage.  Cousins got away with it then, but was picked off when he tried to thread the needle a second time. 

MSU needs to get its ground game going, because its passing game works best on play action.  When they've needed to move the ball almost exclusively through the air (as in ND and OSU), they've struggled to score.  Cunningham is a great WR and makes a couple of circus catches a game, but in the red zone defenses are blanketing him.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:58 AM
(Reply to #14) #24
Baldbill
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Joined: 04/09/2009
MGoPoints: 3579
I am glad that MSU beat OSU,

I am glad that MSU beat OSU, I do not think it is easy to go to Columbtucky and get a win. I think MSU has a pretty good defense, their offense is a bit less impressive. I think that it will be a tough task for Michigan to go into E. Lansing and play. I will be rooting for Michigan, but I do not hate MSU. ( I know many UofM fans might disagree but I never minded MSU).

 

 

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:29 AM
#25
bluebyyou
Joined: 09/07/2009
MGoPoints: 10806
It was a good win for MSU.

It was a good win for MSU. Your D looked pretty good, but it was a bit hard to fully assess just how good they were due to the complete ineptness of Ohio's passing game and that three of Ohio's starters were still in their punishment phase.

As far as the Legends go (I hate that name), I think it is up for grabs.  Nebraska looked to have weaknesses in their D, particularly a piss poor secondary and Taylor Martinez is very erratic. Winning the division is up for grabs.

Rational, it looks like Cousins is just not looking like he did last year.  What's up with that?  Is he nicked up?

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:45 AM
(Reply to #18) #26
RationalMSUfan
RationalMSUfan's picture
Joined: 04/15/2010
MGoPoints: 310
Not sure what to make on Cousins

A few thoughts.

1. He hasn't played that bad. Yes, he looked like a fool when the ball slipped out of his hand and looked like a bigger fool when he couldn't fall on it, but that happens in crap weather.  The pick to Sims in the endzone was well thrown, Sims just slipped and couldn't jump. I think the expecatations are very high and he isn't meeting them.

2. Is it a trend? I'm hoping he can right the ship. He still has time and plenty of tough games to prove himself. I think he is capable.

3. HOWEVER, Kirk's greatest weakness is the ability to deal with rush pressure. Unfortunately, this weakness is exploited by our inexperienced and injured OLine. If we win the Legends it will be because the OLine gels and Kirk plays well. If we don't, it will be because our OLine stinks and Kirk can't overcome it.

My two cents.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:13 AM
(Reply to #39) #27
Needs
Joined: 08/05/2008
MGoPoints: 7194
Thanks for the rational input

Thanks for the rational input from both of you. 

In your opinions, were the offensive struggles last week emblematic of a bigger problem with the offensive line, a pretty good OSU defense, or Dantonio employing Tressel ball after concluding that OSU couldn't score without a huge error?

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:21 AM
(Reply to #31) #28
Eye of the Tiger
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Joined: 09/14/2009
MGoPoints: 6282
The difference is the O-line

Last year, he played behind an experienced and above-average offensive line.  This year, a green and not-so-good one.  So the run game doesn't get going and he doesn't have a lot of time to dish the ball out.  Not his fault, but this is why MSU's offense has been mediocre at best so far.  

[and yes, the defense has, by contrast, been excellent...except against ND, who have a legit offense.]

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:28 AM
(Reply to #63) #29
Needs
Joined: 08/05/2008
MGoPoints: 7194
The MSU defense held ND to

The MSU defense held ND to under 300 yards. I'm sure some of that was ND being risk averse with a big lead and ND did have three long TD drives, but that's still a pretty solid performance against what looked to be a very good offense against us (when Tommy Rees wasn't derping).

MSU's defense scares me, especially with an extra week to prep.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:29 AM
#30
maizedandconfused
maizedandconfused's picture
Joined: 01/14/2010
MGoPoints: 4523
Personally..

I dont tihnk your O Line showed improvement... they got to cousins but he threw enough quick hits and loft balls to Cunningham to keep it honest. the stat to focus on there is the fact that you rushed for about 100 yards combined between the ND and the OSU game... Olines that are solid are rushing for at least 150 a day.  Plus, cousins is throwing like 40 times a game

And with respect to your defense, you gave up about the same amount of yards as a decent Miami team. It isnt hard to smash a team when you literally cannot pass. 

The 9 sacks are the ability of your D coordinator to bring at least 5 literally any down that was remotely pass.

 

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:14 AM
(Reply to #19) #31
08mms
Joined: 07/02/2009
MGoPoints: 2047
posted from iPhone

I agree re: spartys line. There was no run game despite having very solid backs and cousins was having to rush throws all game. I also wonder how spartys linebackers will handle a good rushing attack that involves a lot of trickery off the edges. They are pretty talented recruits but there the linebacking corps is still pretty young over there.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:30 AM
#32
SEAL Fan
Joined: 01/18/2010
MGoPoints: 1626
  I had a conversation

 

I had a conversation with a Spartan fan last week, which simply reminded me why I never discuss football with Spartan fans.

Me:  Are you worried about OSU?

Sparty:  Fck OSU.  Cousins is too good and we're going to roll.

Me:  But your O-line is pretty thin.

Sparty:  So what?  OSU doesn't have a chance.  Oh and fck Brady Hoke.  Fat ass.  I hate Michigan.

Me:  I thought we were talking about OSU?

At that point I just gave up.  It's like the entire fan base is irrational and can only focus on Michigan.  

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:02 AM
(Reply to #21) #33
Baldbill
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Joined: 04/09/2009
MGoPoints: 3579
I think part of this has been

I think part of this has been driven by Dantonio and his obsession with Michigan. He was a OSU guy first and foremost, he is driving the instate rivalry to an area that had never been before. I find him too negative. I grew up on Michigan and while the MSU-UM game was/is always big, I never thought it was a negative rivalry.

 

 

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:03 AM
(Reply to #21) #34
Moleskyn
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Cool story and all that, but

Cool story and all that, but you look like the irrational one right now, considering the context of this thread and who started it.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 1:48 PM
(Reply to #21) #35
triangle_M
Joined: 03/09/2011
MGoPoints: 5027
You know . . .

They have gotten the best of us in recent years but I think Hoke is going to change the tide of this rivalry - and it doesn't have anything to do with selling UTL shirts in Ohio.  MSU is looking like the self-defeating team that we were accustomed to defeating prior to 2008.  They come in with a few good wins and get man-handled by superior talent and superior coaching.  Full disclosure:  I am drinking a lot of Kool-Aid these days.

Reader's digest version:

Sparty gonna Spart.

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October 4th, 2011 at 3:02 AM
(Reply to #21) #36
ryebreadboy
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Joined: 12/02/2010
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I have a friend who was

I have a friend who was boasting about the defense's awesome performance against OSU.  When I attempted to contribute with "I'm just shocked that their offense is so terrible", he took that as me trying to degrade their defense's obvious beatdown.  You just can't talk to these people.  Yeah, the defense was good, but they were helped - to a significant degree, IMO - by the fact that OSU's offense really is that bad.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:35 AM
#37
justingoblue
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I know I put MSU where

I know I put MSU where I did (fifth overall in conference, third in our division) because I think your defense will dispense of most teams without a good/great offense. As good as your defense has looked, it will give up points to a good offense (M/Iowa 2009 and 2010 are both good examples) and nobody knows whether you can keep pace. My guess would be no, so I have them a tier down from M/UNL.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:38 AM
#38
NateVolk
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Joined: 07/19/2010
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  Some interesting

 

Some interesting thoughts.  I applaud your work here. I am guessing it will get beat around by the fans. Doesn't mean it stinks though.

As an MSU grad, I don't recall seeing the likes of you on campus.  A place where the hatred for Michigan is so rabid, we convened in our dorm in 97 to watch a taped version of that day's game so our audible cheering wouldn't coincide with the live game.  We felt it was the safe way to do it.

To me the State game is a barometer of how far along Michigan actually is. They have a Big Boy defense that will limit big plays and punish Denard when he's tackled. They are sound. On offense, they will run at you and won't stop if you can't stop it. They represent a great example of the problems Big Ten teams represent for our defense the last couple years.  How will Michigan hold up?  

It also would be great to beat Dantonio. He's done a good job of making the game really matter to me. I think he's a sort of a phoney, but he's a quality coach. He does a great job of fanning the rivalry.

As much as I think State has elevated themselves to relevence as a rival, most average Michigan fans I talk to don't. They see this as a blip caused by a coaching experiment that wasn't well considered and ultimately failed.  I don't know if that matters to State fans, but the Michigan fans I talk to won't give them credit as being anything unless it keeps going like this for a decade.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:08 AM
(Reply to #25) #39
CRISPed in the DIAG
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Joined: 11/08/2010
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Michigan has more than one

Michigan has more than one rival - ND and Ohio continue much more emotional for me because of the history we have playing relevant games against those two schools. Sorry.  MSU has one rival - UM.  

That said, last year's MSU win began to elevate you as I rival in my mind.  Three (3) straight=three (3) straight and we need to correct that, regardless if it is MSU or OSU.  But prior to 2010, I only considered MSU as a game that we really shouldn't lose rather than one we really want to win - if only because losing the game meant listening to the unbearable prattle of MSU fans and alumni.  

 

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:20 AM
(Reply to #56) #40
CRISPed in the DIAG
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Pretty sure you're alone.

Pretty sure you're alone.  But that's cool.  Seeing ND and Ohio lose games probably makes us both happy.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:37 AM
#41
SanFrancisco_Wo...
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Joined: 11/16/2009
MGoPoints: 2180
Ugh

That was just a piss poor game to watch.  This is what I learned:

1. OSU problems are MUCH bigger than I originally expected.  At first I thought they were just going to struggle because of the Tat 5 missing the first 5 games.  Then it dawned on me that there is just a lack of talent on this team.  OSU's receivers can't get open against ANYONE.  Brewster is regressing on the offensive line.  Kenny Guyton could actually be better than Bauserman.  Miller, though possessing a high ceiling, just lacks either focus or testicular fortitude or maybe even football knowhow.

2. MSU's defense is pretty stinking good.  Even though they played a pitiful OSU team, they will be a force to be reckoned with in the B1G.

3. Dantonio makes some questionable playcalls.  I am still shaking my head as to why he chose to have Cousins throw a fade into the corner when I'm pretty sure Bell could have walked in from 2 yards out if given 2 opportunities.

 

This season is literally up for grabs...until the B1G Championship where Wisky will probably beat their Indianapolis opponent to a bloody pulp.  Montee Ball might be the best back I have seen in this conference in a long time.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:45 AM
(Reply to #26) #42
jcgold
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Joined: 07/27/2009
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Not so sure I agree with you

Not so sure I agree with you on #2.  Sparty loaded the box all day long because Ohio failed to show any sort of a passing game, and was able to rack up sack after sack.  Will they really be able to hold up against a team that is able to spread them out and force them to cover the field.  The ND game says no to me.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:38 AM
#43
Chunks the Hobo
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Huh huh

You said "boob."

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:45 AM
#44
Soulfire21
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MSU has a good defense, but

MSU has a good defense, but we all know OSU's offense is struggling mightily.  Ohio State is not that great this year, if this were any year from 2002-2010 I would be significantly impressed with MSU's victory.  Dantonio's first win against his former employer (while at MSU) is nontheless great, but a "program-defining" win as some are claiming?  Hardly.

Bauserman is terrible, Miller hasn't been terribly impressive, etc.  The Buckeyes do receive a boost to their offense this week as their suspended tat 5 (4?) players return from their suspension.  I think them being off the field also aided MSU.

It's always good to beat Ohio State though, so kudos for that.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:56 AM
#45
Thorin
Joined: 04/07/2009
MGoPoints: 15192
compare/contrast

3. Denard is still electric. The key to UM's B1G Ten season will be whether he can avoid costly interceptions in the passing game that plagued him last year and make enough passing plays to keep defenses honest.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:01 AM
(Reply to #32) #46
RationalMSUfan
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Joined: 04/15/2010
MGoPoints: 310
So What's Your Point?

Do you want me to post the YouTube Videos of Denard's 3 INTs against MSU last year?

For the record, Keyshawn Martin broke off his route in that ND INT. Watch the video.

 

 

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:13 AM
(Reply to #42) #47
Carl Winslow
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Joined: 11/10/2010
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HEY

This guy isn't a Michigan fan.......He's a phony, a big Fat Phony!

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:16 AM
(Reply to #42) #48
CRISPed in the DIAG
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Joined: 11/08/2010
MGoPoints: 23464
It's almost lunch - don't get

It's almost lunch - don't get ornery.  If Martin doesn't break it off, the pass is broken up or he's tackled for no gain.  

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:44 AM
(Reply to #42) #49
Thorin
Joined: 04/07/2009
MGoPoints: 15192
I agree with most of your OP

I agree with most of your OP but last year is last year. You may have heard we have a new coaching staff. This year, same opponent, very different results. Where were you and your peace pipe after the ND game? I don't think we need to worry about Denard as much as you need to worry about Cousins and your OL. And as far as MSU's defense being "good" and UM's being just "improved", which I take to mean less than good, they both gave up exactly the same number of points against a common opponent. Congratulations on beating a terrible OSU team without some of their best players. I have a feeling UM will score more than 10 against them.

 

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October 3rd, 2011 at 12:02 PM
(Reply to #75) #50
MI Expat NY
Joined: 07/24/2008
MGoPoints: 7498
I'd say the difference is

I'd say the difference is that Cousins' problems seem to be in areas that are supposed to be his strengths.  Denard's strength is running the football, his weaknesses are in areas that keep the defense honest.  That's why Cousins' problems are arguably more worrisome.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:28 AM
(Reply to #32) #51
jwschultz
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Joined: 09/21/2009
MGoPoints: 554
3-week-late heart attack

I guess I haven't watched the end of the Michigan-ND game since seeing it from Section 13, but holy moley. Is it just me, or was Roundtree's block at the end of Gallon's long reception really unnecessary and really close to being too far back on the defender (block in the back-style)?  Shades of terrible events I can't mention by name just flooded my brain.

Also, is that Brent on PBP? He should maybe hang it up a couple years ago. 

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:50 AM
#52
lunchboxthegoat
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Joined: 10/07/2008
MGoPoints: 2978
A couple

A couple observations: 

 

Sparty won a game that good teams have to win. Terrible offense performance but their defense was just mean against a team that didn't deserve to score any points. So kudos to them.

I will say that they are a solid to good team and may make a run at the division championship. It hinges on their ability to work around the shortcomings of that offensive line. The difference between last year and this year is exactly that. They seemingly mauled people in the trenches and Cousins had a good year behind that line...that's not happening this year. He's regressed and I've got to think that some of that has to do with the extra pressure he's facing this year. 

They still have two great backs in Baker and Bell but they haven't been very effective so far...they're a full YPC short of last year's numbers. If that doesn't change they're going to be hard pressed to get going on offense...that defense isn't one that will carry them to 10/11 wins. 

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:50 AM
#53
Hardware Sushi
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Joined: 03/08/2010
MGoPoints: 6379
You rational

You rational MFer. I still think MSU's offensive line "sucks" by Big Ten standards, whereas I think our weakest link this year is "average" or "poor".

I had a long response typed out but remembered we're playing NW this week. I'll have plenty of hate for Sparty come Sunday.

And no, I'm not giving them any credit or rooting for them as long as a hypocrite whiney d-bag like Dantonio is running the program.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:50 AM
#54
GunnersApe
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Joined: 11/19/2009
MGoPoints: 6663
2 cents

OSU has always been "bend don't break" defense, they played well given the O keep them on the field a lot. MSU's O-line played better than I expected with regards to running the ball and protecting Kirk. I learned that MSU has three passing plays that don't involve P/A, Bubble, Slant and Zone beating fly route. I really don't wont to kick off "Biblical Hatred Week" until after NU, have fun with the bye week Sparty I'm sure there plenty of Derp over at RCBM to get you through 12 days.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:50 AM
#55
Farnn
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 11646
I really don't think we'll

I really don't think we'll know how these two teams measure up until two weeks from now.  Until then it's really hard to tell because neither team has played anyone great, and the one common opponent is pretty schizofrenic, so it's very hard to draw conclusions from that game.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:52 AM
#56
Incredible Hoke
Joined: 06/23/2011
MGoPoints: 249
I agree. No matter how what,

I agree. No matter how what, when you get 9 sacks in a game and have people in the opposing quarterbacks face all game.. that's certainly impressive. Now, granted B. Miller is a freshman quarterback in way over his head and panicking all game, 9 sacks is crazy. 

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:54 AM
#57
ReadYourGuard
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Joined: 08/21/2008
MGoPoints: 33682
There's no denying it,

There's no denying it, Michigan State is the top team in the Legends division....after 1 game.  

(Sheesh, talk about September hype machine.)

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October 3rd, 2011 at 10:57 AM
#58
allintime23
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Joined: 09/21/2009
MGoPoints: 15065
Four of the last five threads are about MSU.

Stop.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:06 AM
#59
chunkums
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Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 13665
I think MSU has a good

I think MSU has a good defense, as they've held all of their opponents to season lows thus far.  Still, it is greatly bloated due to facing mostly anemic offenses, with OSU being one of the worst.  I'll give you props for beating OSU, but at this point OSU doesn't even look like a team that will be bowl eligible.  With that said, we are equally untested.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:23 AM
(Reply to #43) #60
justingoblue
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Joined: 11/16/2010
MGoPoints: 29685
I think we've been tested

I think we've been tested pretty well (and much more than MSU). Michigan State has won four games, and those opponents are 2-2 (including a loss to Indiana State), 0-4, 2-3 (with a blowout loss to WMU) and 3-2, for a combined record of 7-11. Michigan has beaten five teams with records of 3-2 (including UConn) 3-2, 3-2, 3-1, 1-4 for a record of 13-11.

Michigan has won against teams with an average win percentage of .542, MSU has won against teams averaging .389.

For some perspective, LSU has played teams that are 3-1, 2-3, 2-3, 4-1, 2-3, (13-11) for a win percentage of .542.

I'm not saying we've played Oregon or beaten a conference opponent with a pulse yet, but it's not like we've played some weak schedule either.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:03 AM
#61
Phil.engin2011
Joined: 06/29/2011
MGoPoints: 194
If the truth is in the pudding,

Is the proof in the middle, or in wine?

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:03 AM
#62
BlueHills
Joined: 10/31/2010
MGoPoints: 4145
Good post. And true.

Good post. And true.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:14 AM
#63
coastal blue
Joined: 11/13/2010
MGoPoints: 1955
It's not that we don't give MSU credit

It's that we give them less credit than the media.

Fact is, you've played one good team (Notre Dame) and you got crushed.

You scored 10 points on a good Ohio State defense (so are we supposed to be impressed with your offense?) and you shut down the worst OSU offense in who knows how long?

You've done well to beat all the bad teams on your schedule, but you don't look like anything but a worse version of last year's 11-2 team that lost both of those games by 30+ points.

I'd say you're a top 25 team with an above average defense.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:19 AM
#64
msoccer10
Joined: 08/29/2008
MGoPoints: 1754
Yes

That is rational. I think MSU's oline will be the difference this year. If Michigan's d-line can stay healthy through the next two weeks, (no chop blocks please), I think we shut MSU's run down and pressure Cousin's enough to slow the passing game down. Hopefully Denard doesn't make as many costly mistakes as he did last year. I think it will be close.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:20 AM
#65
08mms
Joined: 07/02/2009
MGoPoints: 2047
posted from iPhone

I've noticed that with him. He's usually a pretty good decision maker with a great arm, but you get a couple hits on him and he just melts down mentally. I always figured he would outgrow that but I thought that is a part of what happens with OSU at the end of the second half.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:20 AM
#66
WolvinLA2
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Joined: 11/13/2009
MGoPoints: 52761
Not impressed by MSU beating

Not impressed by MSU beating OSU - OSU looked terrible all game and almost came back and won.  MSU couldn't run the ball, Cousins was sketchy at best, and MSU's defense was only good because OSU couldn't throw the ball to save their lives.  OSU had wide open receivers all day that they couldn't hit, so MSU just stacked the line - which is what all teams will do against OSU until they can complete a pass.

I'm not saying MSU sucks because of it, but if you're going to play a piss-poor team (or at least a team that plays a piss-poor game) you need to win by more than 3 before you use it to show how good you are.  I learned little about MSU in this game, good or bad.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:48 AM
(Reply to #62) #67
Harballer
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Joined: 09/29/2010
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Not to mention, the only

Not to mention, the only reason Cousins look "sketchy at best" and not downright horrible was because of Cunningham and his playmaking ability.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:24 AM
#68
Tater
Tater's picture
Joined: 08/13/2008
MGoPoints: 30564
Uh, right

I'll give MSU "credit:"

For turning a 31-67-5 record against Michigan into 22-34-2 by conveniently ignoring all games before the Paul Bunyan trophy started in 1953.

For getting more mileage out of one win, let alone three straight, than it was thought humanly possible.

For bragging above and beyond the call of fandom with nothing to back it up.

For constantly being the mouse, floating on its back, yelling for the drawbridge to be raised because it just beat Michigan and has an erection.

For turning the Michigan basketball team in to the NCAA and using the resultant "scandal" to own instate recruiting and build a great program for ten years.

For making the Michigan game their yearly Super Bowl in football.

For thinking that their program can even sniff the level of Michigan's because they had one good year in a row.

For vandalizing Michigan cars and throwing beverages on Michigan fans in EL, and never stopping to realize that nobody is that classless to them when they come to Ann Arbor.

I think you get the idea.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:48 AM
(Reply to #65) #69
Section 1
Section 1's picture
Joined: 06/29/2009
MGoPoints: 16556
That's all well and good. Vandalism is usually a bad thing.

But I want to thank -- yes, THANK -- the Sparties who vandalized cars in        in         Ann Arbor.  Never mind the car-vandalizing and couch-burning in E. Lansing.  Because without the clever and cunning MSU students who came to Ann Arbor to demonstrate their car-vandalizing prowess, we might never have gotten this classic photo:

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October 3rd, 2011 at 11:40 AM
#70
BigBlue02
Joined: 06/29/2009
MGoPoints: 11710
I would venture to say that

I would venture to say that OSU has an offense on par with minnesota's right now. It will change when they get 3 starters back, but not a lot until they can get a QB. So basically you held possibly the worst offense in the big 10 to 7 points and a bunch of other teams with worse offenses to around that many also. Forgive me for not giving your defense credit. After you play us, Nebraska, and Wisconsin (you know, actual competition), then I will give you credit. And don't tell me about Notre Dame....they scored 31 on you and the game wasn't close.

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October 3rd, 2011 at 12:39 PM
#71
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 56299
That's a reasonable

That's a reasonable assessment.  

I agree that MSU should be favored in the matchup on Oct. 15 - not by a ton, but by a few.  MSU's defense looks very complete.  I don't see any clear weaknesses.  Maybe the corners can be beaten in single coverage.  I don't know.  MSU's gameplan against Robinson last year was terrific.  I think we're going to have to get something going out of the tailback-based ground game because he's going to be shadowed all day.  He'll have to have a good day throwing the ball, as well.  If he's on, though, he's the kind of QB that can give an aggressive front like MSU's problems.

On offense, MSU's clear challenge is to shore up the line.  Maybe also to develop a secondary receiving target.  OSU, which has a good DL and secondary, was a tough matchup.  I'm not sure if our D is stout enough to shut down the run like they did.  We had our hands full trying to stop Baker and Bell last year.  Cunningham is scary.  We have done a good job of denying the big pass play to date, but have been burned on short and intermediate throws.  Cunningham's going to be a challenge to cover.  It'll be a good measuring stick of our D's progress.

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