It's OK to give MSU credit and vice versa

Fuck Dantonio.

I don't ever want MSU or OSU to win and don't care who they are playing.  I don't root for either.

I would be shocked if Iowa had anything to say about the winner of the division - I believe things come down to NEB, MSU, and MICH

More so than Nebraska. Notwithstanding the Notre Dame loss, this should be the most evenly-matched game left on our schedule.

You have a appropriate user name.

I also agree with you, however I put a little less credence in MSU's performance vs OSU.  I think it all hinges more on Cousins and his mistakes.  MSU didn't look good against FCS Youngstown State, got stomped by ND, and didn't look impressive against OSU.  I think OSU is around the same talent level as a Penn State or Iowa.  I think what hurts MSU in perception is that this OSU team is also missing their starting LT, RB, and WR.

MSU doesn't pass the "eye test" to me thus far, however the talent is there if they can bring it all together. 

I see MSU finishing the year at 8-4 to 9-3 and at best, second in the Legends, but likely third.

That is all.

Obviously we don't want to give you credit because OSU didnt have all their players, but in reality it doesn't matter. Props to the Spartans for getting a tough road win. I agree with most of your points but I am not convinced by your argument that the MSU offense will be fine. I would be concerned that you moved the ball into OSU territory with relative ease but only scored 10 pts. Was that a result of OSU starting to play once they were on their side of the field or something else? October 15 will be a very interesting game

It was a good win for MSU. Your D looked pretty good, but it was a bit hard to fully assess just how good they were due to the complete ineptness of Ohio's passing game and that three of Ohio's starters were still in their punishment phase.

As far as the Legends go (I hate that name), I think it is up for grabs.  Nebraska looked to have weaknesses in their D, particularly a piss poor secondary and Taylor Martinez is very erratic. Winning the division is up for grabs.

Rational, it looks like Cousins is just not looking like he did last year.  What's up with that?  Is he nicked up?

I dont tihnk your O Line showed improvement... they got to cousins but he threw enough quick hits and loft balls to Cunningham to keep it honest. the stat to focus on there is the fact that you rushed for about 100 yards combined between the ND and the OSU game... Olines that are solid are rushing for at least 150 a day.  Plus, cousins is throwing like 40 times a game

And with respect to your defense, you gave up about the same amount of yards as a decent Miami team. It isnt hard to smash a team when you literally cannot pass. 

The 9 sacks are the ability of your D coordinator to bring at least 5 literally any down that was remotely pass.

I know I put MSU where I did (fifth overall in conference, third in our division) because I think your defense will dispense of most teams without a good/great offense. As good as your defense has looked, it will give up points to a good offense (M/Iowa 2009 and 2010 are both good examples) and nobody knows whether you can keep pace. My guess would be no, so I have them a tier down from M/UNL.

Some interesting thoughts.  I applaud your work here. I am guessing it will get beat around by the fans. Doesn't mean it stinks though.

As an MSU grad, I don't recall seeing the likes of you on campus.  A place where the hatred for Michigan is so rabid, we convened in our dorm in 97 to watch a taped version of that day's game so our audible cheering wouldn't coincide with the live game.  We felt it was the safe way to do it.

To me the State game is a barometer of how far along Michigan actually is. They have a Big Boy defense that will limit big plays and punish Denard when he's tackled. They are sound. On offense, they will run at you and won't stop if you can't stop it. They represent a great example of the problems Big Ten teams represent for our defense the last couple years.  How will Michigan hold up?  

It also would be great to beat Dantonio. He's done a good job of making the game really matter to me. I think he's a sort of a phoney, but he's a quality coach. He does a great job of fanning the rivalry.

As much as I think State has elevated themselves to relevence as a rival, most average Michigan fans I talk to don't. They see this as a blip caused by a coaching experiment that wasn't well considered and ultimately failed.  I don't know if that matters to State fans, but the Michigan fans I talk to won't give them credit as being anything unless it keeps going like this for a decade.

That was just a piss poor game to watch.  This is what I learned:

1. OSU problems are MUCH bigger than I originally expected.  At first I thought they were just going to struggle because of the Tat 5 missing the first 5 games.  Then it dawned on me that there is just a lack of talent on this team.  OSU's receivers can't get open against ANYONE.  Brewster is regressing on the offensive line.  Kenny Guyton could actually be better than Bauserman.  Miller, though possessing a high ceiling, just lacks either focus or testicular fortitude or maybe even football knowhow.

2. MSU's defense is pretty stinking good.  Even though they played a pitiful OSU team, they will be a force to be reckoned with in the B1G.

3. Dantonio makes some questionable playcalls.  I am still shaking my head as to why he chose to have Cousins throw a fade into the corner when I'm pretty sure Bell could have walked in from 2 yards out if given 2 opportunities.

This season is literally up for grabs...until the B1G Championship where Wisky will probably beat their Indianapolis opponent to a bloody pulp.  Montee Ball might be the best back I have seen in this conference in a long time.

You said "boob."

MSU has a good defense, but we all know OSU's offense is struggling mightily.  Ohio State is not that great this year, if this were any year from 2002-2010 I would be significantly impressed with MSU's victory.  Dantonio's first win against his former employer (while at MSU) is nontheless great, but a "program-defining" win as some are claiming?  Hardly.

Bauserman is terrible, Miller hasn't been terribly impressive, etc.  The Buckeyes do receive a boost to their offense this week as their suspended tat 5 (4?) players return from their suspension.  I think them being off the field also aided MSU.

It's always good to beat Ohio State though, so kudos for that.

3. Denard is still electric. The key to UM's B1G Ten season will be whether he can avoid costly interceptions in the passing game that plagued him last year and make enough passing plays to keep defenses honest.

A couple observations: 

Sparty won a game that good teams have to win. Terrible offense performance but their defense was just mean against a team that didn't deserve to score any points. So kudos to them.

I will say that they are a solid to good team and may make a run at the division championship. It hinges on their ability to work around the shortcomings of that offensive line. The difference between last year and this year is exactly that. They seemingly mauled people in the trenches and Cousins had a good year behind that line...that's not happening this year. He's regressed and I've got to think that some of that has to do with the extra pressure he's facing this year. 

They still have two great backs in Baker and Bell but they haven't been very effective so far...they're a full YPC short of last year's numbers. If that doesn't change they're going to be hard pressed to get going on offense...that defense isn't one that will carry them to 10/11 wins. 

You rational MFer. I still think MSU's offensive line "sucks" by Big Ten standards, whereas I think our weakest link this year is "average" or "poor".

I had a long response typed out but remembered we're playing NW this week. I'll have plenty of hate for Sparty come Sunday.

And no, I'm not giving them any credit or rooting for them as long as a hypocrite whiney d-bag like Dantonio is running the program.

OSU has always been "bend don't break" defense, they played well given the O keep them on the field a lot. MSU's O-line played better than I expected with regards to running the ball and protecting Kirk. I learned that MSU has three passing plays that don't involve P/A, Bubble, Slant and Zone beating fly route. I really don't wont to kick off "Biblical Hatred Week" until after NU, have fun with the bye week Sparty I'm sure there plenty of Derp over at RCBM to get you through 12 days.

I really don't think we'll know how these two teams measure up until two weeks from now.  Until then it's really hard to tell because neither team has played anyone great, and the one common opponent is pretty schizofrenic, so it's very hard to draw conclusions from that game.

I agree. No matter how what, when you get 9 sacks in a game and have people in the opposing quarterbacks face all game.. that's certainly impressive. Now, granted B. Miller is a freshman quarterback in way over his head and panicking all game, 9 sacks is crazy. 

There's no denying it, Michigan State is the top team in the Legends division....after 1 game.  

(Sheesh, talk about September hype machine.)

Stop.

I think MSU has a good defense, as they've held all of their opponents to season lows thus far.  Still, it is greatly bloated due to facing mostly anemic offenses, with OSU being one of the worst.  I'll give you props for beating OSU, but at this point OSU doesn't even look like a team that will be bowl eligible.  With that said, we are equally untested.

Is the proof in the middle, or in wine?

Good post. And true.

It's that we give them less credit than the media.

Fact is, you've played one good team (Notre Dame) and you got crushed.

You scored 10 points on a good Ohio State defense (so are we supposed to be impressed with your offense?) and you shut down the worst OSU offense in who knows how long?

You've done well to beat all the bad teams on your schedule, but you don't look like anything but a worse version of last year's 11-2 team that lost both of those games by 30+ points.

I'd say you're a top 25 team with an above average defense.

That is rational. I think MSU's oline will be the difference this year. If Michigan's d-line can stay healthy through the next two weeks, (no chop blocks please), I think we shut MSU's run down and pressure Cousin's enough to slow the passing game down. Hopefully Denard doesn't make as many costly mistakes as he did last year. I think it will be close.

I've noticed that with him. He's usually a pretty good decision maker with a great arm, but you get a couple hits on him and he just melts down mentally. I always figured he would outgrow that but I thought that is a part of what happens with OSU at the end of the second half.

Not impressed by MSU beating OSU - OSU looked terrible all game and almost came back and won.  MSU couldn't run the ball, Cousins was sketchy at best, and MSU's defense was only good because OSU couldn't throw the ball to save their lives.  OSU had wide open receivers all day that they couldn't hit, so MSU just stacked the line - which is what all teams will do against OSU until they can complete a pass.

I'm not saying MSU sucks because of it, but if you're going to play a piss-poor team (or at least a team that plays a piss-poor game) you need to win by more than 3 before you use it to show how good you are.  I learned little about MSU in this game, good or bad.

I'll give MSU "credit:"

For turning a 31-67-5 record against Michigan into 22-34-2 by conveniently ignoring all games before the Paul Bunyan trophy started in 1953.

For getting more mileage out of one win, let alone three straight, than it was thought humanly possible.

For bragging above and beyond the call of fandom with nothing to back it up.

For constantly being the mouse, floating on its back, yelling for the drawbridge to be raised because it just beat Michigan and has an erection.

For turning the Michigan basketball team in to the NCAA and using the resultant "scandal" to own instate recruiting and build a great program for ten years.

For making the Michigan game their yearly Super Bowl in football.

For thinking that their program can even sniff the level of Michigan's because they had one good year in a row.

For vandalizing Michigan cars and throwing beverages on Michigan fans in EL, and never stopping to realize that nobody is that classless to them when they come to Ann Arbor.

I think you get the idea.

I would venture to say that OSU has an offense on par with minnesota's right now. It will change when they get 3 starters back, but not a lot until they can get a QB. So basically you held possibly the worst offense in the big 10 to 7 points and a bunch of other teams with worse offenses to around that many also. Forgive me for not giving your defense credit. After you play us, Nebraska, and Wisconsin (you know, actual competition), then I will give you credit. And don't tell me about Notre Dame....they scored 31 on you and the game wasn't close.

That's a reasonable assessment.  

I agree that MSU should be favored in the matchup on Oct. 15 - not by a ton, but by a few.  MSU's defense looks very complete.  I don't see any clear weaknesses.  Maybe the corners can be beaten in single coverage.  I don't know.  MSU's gameplan against Robinson last year was terrific.  I think we're going to have to get something going out of the tailback-based ground game because he's going to be shadowed all day.  He'll have to have a good day throwing the ball, as well.  If he's on, though, he's the kind of QB that can give an aggressive front like MSU's problems.

On offense, MSU's clear challenge is to shore up the line.  Maybe also to develop a secondary receiving target.  OSU, which has a good DL and secondary, was a tough matchup.  I'm not sure if our D is stout enough to shut down the run like they did.  We had our hands full trying to stop Baker and Bell last year.  Cunningham is scary.  We have done a good job of denying the big pass play to date, but have been burned on short and intermediate throws.  Cunningham's going to be a challenge to cover.  It'll be a good measuring stick of our D's progress.