You hit the nail on the head. This sums up my thoughts exactly
The issue of respect
MSU has played this game with a different level of aggressiveness than us. Even when we won this game back in 2007, we were being dominated in the tranches. We just had too much talents to lose that game.
I am wondering if all those those penalties were signs of the importance of this game to MSU players and their hatered for UM? They do not seem to want our respect. They just hates us with a vengence.
Couldnt agree more... but sadly, I think the entire culture of East Lansing... the coaches, players, fans, students contribute to the problem... classless all the way around
agree it's a mini Columbus
poop in coolers?
Sparties poop in mini-coolers.
They pee in coolers. They're not consistently good enough to poop in coolers.
"Michigan State defensive coordinator Pat Narduzzi couldn't get too mad about the six 15-yard penalties called on the Spartans for some form of unnecessary roughness Saturday. 'That's what we try to do,' Narduzzi said after Michigan State's 28-14 win against Michigan. 'Sixty minutes of unnecessary roughness. I'm just happy it didn't get called on every snap.'"
Yeah, that's bizzare. I don't know what the hell he means.
It's clear that Dantonio has whipped that entire program into foaming-at-the mouth hatred for Michigan ... which seems to be pretty effective. Perhaps it demands respect, but not admiration.
When I see Dantonio, I see an angry, empty man.
I don't see anything that redeeming about him.
It is up to UM to respond. Michigan needs to hit back legally. MSU several times went over the line and they rightfully should be condemned. But Michigan State is winning because they are the more physical team. I have no problems with Narduzzi's strategy, but the methods. Punching is beyond the pale.
They have played this game at a higher physical level during the last 5 years.
Yes, State beat us over the last 4 years because they were the tougher, more physical team. Good thing we hired a coach that emphasizes physical toughness.
Huh, what, . . . you mean there are some of us who have been complaining about that?
I just hope the B1G catches onto this... or I least hope that people are well aware of how that program operates.... our Dance Team and Marching Band gets spit on, flicked off, and cussed out by football players? hahaha what a joke.
FWIW, I've had both an Iowa fan and a Wisconsin fan reach out today to tell me that they were disgusted by MSU.
I've had random people in LA approach me in my UM gear today and do the same.
Minnesota. They're terrible in every way and might be one of the worst teams ever. But you know what? They lose with class. No cheap shots, no punching or twisting of the neck. They might not win anothe game this season, but with every one of those losses comes more of my respect.
They have it on certain levels. Not on others though. In some areas they lost respect today.This is ultimately going to be great for the Michigan program. They do a lot of things on the field that are good too. We'll need to continue to grow and develop for next year.
I really have a lot of confidence we will.
some decent teams outside of the the B1G. Winning 10-11 games in the conference and then getting beaten by 40 in a bowl game doesn't help.
The cheap shot crap they pulled today aside, I respect the victory they got today. They outplayed Michigan on both sides of the ball. But I don't respect the program because of the way they go about things. they always have this huge chip on their shoulders and seem to have this "hey, look at me" thing going on.
I thought their unis looks ridiculous and the cheap shots were juvenille. ESPN won't show any of the cheap shots on SC and it will all go unnoticed. What is going to get noticed is the four in a row and that each time Michigan starts out undefeated it's Sparty that starts the slide. To stop that Michigan needs to come out in two weeks and destroy Purdue and then destroy Illinois the following week. If Purdue is the only other victory Michigan gets this season, the perception will be that nothing has changed in AA.
Sparty will get beat down by Wisconsin and then get beaten by them again in the Championship game and go to the Cap One Bowl.
It's always about US for them. When Michigan wins, we celebrate Michigan's win. When they beat us, they celebrate our loss. SC making the game about UM doesnt exacerbate the issue for MSU because they seem to care about the Michigan program, and its perception in relation, compared to just being MSU.
Also on SC it's not going to be about MSU winning. More focus will be put on Michigan and "what's next for the Wolverines, can they bounce back and prevent a slide?"
It's kind of sad in a way. To them, the game with us seems to be the one and only regular season game they point to all year. It really seems like a spoiled little brother throwing a tantrum because he's jealous of his big brother's successes. A tip for MSU, though, raging against Michigan won't make your inferiority complex go away.
Yeah, they care more. That's vindicating for Michigan football. It's okay that we got bullied up and down the field because they cared more. That's something to take solace in.
Most of what you are seeing comes from their coach. He may put on a nice, classy public face but when it comes to Michigan he is a fanatical low-life.
You, your team, and your coach are despicable. For a person who doesn't care about platitudes, why do you keep posting?
That you're here, trolling our boards merely proves my point. Why isn't winning enough for you? When we win, I don't troll the losing teams boards. I don't need to. We've just won, and the story is over.
At least we're not slimeballs with neurotic complexes! Also, shouldn't you get some sleep? Or meet up with your friends?
But currently MSU is the better team. Dantonio deserves some dap for that. But things have a way of changing.
It is urban slang. I have no idea why I used it there.
You remind me of the Grinch. The Grinch tries to steal Christmas from Whoville, but when he wakes up in the morning and sees the Who's rejoicing, even though all their presents and cherished material possessions have been taken, he is stunned. He doesn't understand that for the Who's, Christmas is about more than the presents. For you, winning is the only endgame no matter how you get there. But for us, it matters how we get there. That's the difference between us. And I'm not trying to be flip or arrogant. We hate losing as much as you do, but if we won by playing dirty, we wouldn't rest easy like you and your coaches do.
We're no more or less superior than we were yesterday. The infuriating thing about Sparty is that they just EXPECT that a) Mich fans/alums think they're better and b) that MUST change because of the result of a football game.
Attention everyone: we are all just as decent (or despicable) as we were yesterday. Michigan is still a great institution, it's great to be a Wolverine.
Is it great to be a Spartan? I don't know, I don't know anything about that. But if it is, it shouldn't hinge on one game.
You went to MSU, you have the IQ of a donut.
I just want to see grammar :(
Signed, Constable Grammar.
When has anyone here made any kind of prediction like that? Where are you drawing your conclusions from? Even Brian predicted an MSU win in the preview. Michigan State has been better than us in each other last four years. We all understand that, there's no reason to rub it in. It only makes yourself look bad.
I don't understand how people can call Michigan fans arrogant while being so blatantly arrogant themselves.
Why are you insulting MSU for being involved in agriculture? This is by far the dumbest insult we as a fanbase have come up with. You don't think making sure we have enough food produced in the future is an issue worth addressing?
will once again become that easy win on our way to multiple b10 championships. But at least when Michigan starts beating you on the field again we won't literally beat on your players!
Anyways, I'm a Michigan fan for life. The only team I respect is my own team! Win or lose I will always be a wolverine fan!
because you obviously have no clue they mean. Nothing in her post was rationalizing or making excuses for what happened today. Rather, she is criticizing the manner in which your team performed. MSU won fair and square. The extracurricular stuff was not the reason you won. But that is what makes it disappointing. Such poor behavior in an otherwise laudable effort does tarnish it in some people's eyes.
MSU has who four straight. Congrats. But MSU is still a regional program. It has never been to a BCS bowl and won only ten games twice in 40 years. MSU has exactly two BTT's in 20 years.MSU has not beaten a good OOC opponent not named "Notre Dame" since the 00' Citrus Bowl. MSU is again being out recruited by Mchigan except this time the coach is a guy who has as many national title rings as Dantonio and who understands that physicality is required to win in the BIg Ten.
MSU was the better team this year. That is why everyone picked MSU to win. But you should know that things can turn quickly on a rivalry. After all it was 4 years ago that MSU won for the first time in 7 years. Pride comes before the fall, Sparty.
You played better than we did and deserved to win based on what happened before the whistle. But if I were an MSU fan I would not show up on any other team's board talking trash because I would be too embarrassed by that display of thuggery the team put on today. You have a thug coach who runs a thug program, and no one respects a thug.
about Sparty wanting respect. They scream about wanting respect, but do nothing to earn it. We can acknowledge that they played a better game today, but no one respects them for what they did because of how they did it.
On that score, Dantonio has clearly demonstrated that he doesn't respect the game of college football, or even his own players, if he tells them that the way to win is to physically hurt the opposition. The players only emulate what they see at the top of their program. No respect given, no respect earned.
Historically, their program isn't much different than Purdue's. The only reason we care is because of the proximity. Do you know how much Illinois fans hate Michigan? I met a graduate once and was shocked to find out the number one game they wanted to win every year was Michigan.
I'm annoyed that we lost again to MSU, but only because it means we're not to where we need to be yet. I want to get back to the Michigan teams where MSU was just another game and we only had to worry about losing one or two games a year (of course, we always made 4 or 5 more interesting than they should have been). But Hoke's recruiting. We'll dry up their talent pipelines and we'll be back there. In the meantime, Sparty, enjoy it while it lasts.
I had the same experience when I met Penn State fans when I was visiting family in Eastern Pennsylvania. I tend to root for Penn State when we're not playing them, so it was incredibly jarring that when people would see my Michigan gear and start smack-talking and say that we were the game they circled on their calendars every single year and the team they wanted to beat the most.
Like Scott Van Pelt said today, MSU circles the Michigan game. But so do 11 other teams.
Mark Dantonio can say that things have changed (as he did in his postgame comments on the field), and this recent streak is to be applauded for them. But it hasn't changed that Michigan is the team the others want to beat and that Michigan State is another (lately tough) game on the schedule.
And, ultimately, if MSU wants our respect, maybe their ballcoach doesn't respond in smack-talking with a student athlete. Maybe they don't act petty, win or lose. Maybe they don't throw punches or try to break our quarterback's neck or injure him. Maybe the fans don't celebrate our loss more than their win.
I was raised to be fair and sportsmanlike. I don't care what school it is, if the behavior was as MSU's was today, I wouldn't support it (the actions). I cannot respect or abide it. I don't care if it's MSU, Eastern, Florida Atlantic, or even UM. Acting without class and integrity will NEVER gain my respect.
Congratulations on the win, MSU. It was well deserved. My respect, however, remains non-present.
We're the school every other b10 most wants to beat. Iowa and Wisky circle the Michigan game. How many schools give the slightest shit when Sparty comes to town? None. Nobody else even considers them a rival.
True. The B1G had to invent a rival for them when PSU joined. When NE joined, the B1G had to shop around for a new rival. All they could find was indiana.
He always looks like he just crapped himself. All I can say right now is On Wisconsin will be my bye week menu.
I'd rather respect that asshole who cockblocked me 10 minutes ago. I'm pissed.
As one who values respect, I feel obligated to share this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMqbRgOGq24
One, you are not a MIchigan fan.
Two, really? That push hardly had force behind it. I don't condone it, but what Gholston did was far worse.
Read my previous posts. I am a Michigan fan.
Your posts in this thread make me question your assertion. I think you are a troll.
I really don't know if you are referring to me. I would not deny that Gholston's attack (no other word) was different than Lewan's push, but if they came on the same play, then I believe it is necessary to include the push before the attack to provide context. This does not mean that the context eases the heinous nature of his retaliation, but it does address claims that were made on this very board that Lewan was helping him up as he punched him. This is an important distinction. Don't be so quick to call someone a troll, and I will try to provide context before posting a link that should have provoked inquiry instead of accusation.
asshole. Go Blue and fuck you, you Spartan troll.
Fuck Sparty trolls. It's an inferior school with an inferiority complex...
It was before the whistle and an attempt to keep the player down and out of the play. It may not have been legal, but it was not a punch or twist of a facemask after the whistle. Gholston is a goon and will likely be suspended by the BIG. Lewan's actions won't draw any attention from the BIG office.
Sparty will never truly win. They win the ball game yet lose respect in the process. It's pathetic.
Would you let your son play for Danantonio after what you saw today? I sure wouldn't.
I"d love to see this come and bite them in the ass with recruiting, but I doubt the kids will make anything of it.
lose every remaining game so that Michigan wins the tiebreaker with Nebraska due to our head to head win over the Huskers. So it is written, so it shall be done...
just keep tweeting the video of the hit, I love social media
I wrote about this in a "typology of college rivalries" diary and largely agree (http://mgoblog.com/diaries/typology-college-rivalries).
I think that big brother - little brother rivalries are, by their nature, unhealthy for all involved. Michigan State's battle for respect from Michigan isn't winnable, since nothing on a football field will ever change the reality, understood by each side, that Michigan's a much better school. It's a trump card that is at the core of Michigan arrogance claims, MSU's inferiority complex, and this never-ending battle for respect.
This dynamic, by the way, is what I think leads to MSU behaving like it did today. They have a visceral hatred of us - and always will - because the nature of college admissions is such that our school told many of them that they aren't good enough to be one of us. It's almost hard to blame them.
I really believe that MSU would be better off if it could find another true rival.
There are plenty of instate rivalries with the same dynamic where one school is more presitigious than the other, but the team from the less prestigious school doesn't play like thugs. Iowa St doesn't play that way against Iowa, Oregon St doesn't play that way against Oregon, Wazzu doesn't play that way against Washington, etc.
Jerel Worthy's comments about respect resonate among the MSU family because they play upon longstanding resentments that go far beyond the football field. MSU students want the world to know that they are intelligent too (hence the curious fact that there appear to be more persons "admitted" to Michigan in East Lansing than in Ann Arbor). MSU donors and alumni begrudge the fact Michigan is the favored child in Lansing, Washington, and other places that matter. And the MSU football team, as we became painfully aware today, is angry about playing in the shadow of the winningest program in the country. If nothing else, Mark Dantonio deserves credit for stoking that anger, because it has proven deadly effective on a certain Saturday every October. Frankly, if we could somehow quantify anger, it's hard to see how Michigan matches that anytime in the near future. To whom would Michigan direct its all-consuming derision? Berkeley? The private (snobby) Ivies? Ohio State?
So, Jerel Worthy and Mark Dantonio, please believe me when I say that I do not disrespect you. Your Spartans kicked my beloved alma mater's ass today. I am duly chastened. Your football team is better than mine. Trust me too when I say that I do not joke at your university's expense. It is a fine institution, filled with beautiful women, buildings, and many excellent academic programs. Nor have I ever called you "little brother." I use that exotic, unusual phrase only to refer to . . . well . . . my daughter's younger brother . . . er, my son.
So I ask you to please be gracious in victory. Do not denigrate your vanquished opponent. Do not celebrate the thuggishness of one of your own who momentarily lost his cool. Most of all, remember that one day you and yours will undoubtedly feel as miserable as the Michigan family feels today. Such is the logic and beauty of sport.
MSU would have to act and play like they deserve ANY respect first.
after watching that DIRTY DIRTY team yesterday...
Sparty will always be able to get our attention with the antics they pull.
But they will never get our respect.
Worthy wasn't so modest.
Was this a dirty game?
"Definitely," Michigan State's star junior defensive tackle said. "Any rivalry you have like that, there’s always going to be little cheap shots and everything like that. We just got to play through it.
"It’s football, at the end of the day. It’s man on man, and we got to overcome it."
But all the personal fouls went against the Spartans. What's up with that?
"Yeah, ya know, but it’s rough out there," Worthy said, hat tugged low and sweat still dripping down his face. "I’m just happy that we were able to go out there and persevere through the adversity that we had and get the job done."
Sparty, you are not Michigan. Winning a handful of football games is not going to make you Michigan.
So just be who you are and quit looking to Michigan. Celebrate those positive attributes that make you unique (I can't discern what they are but I'm sure you can figure something out).
The Jersey Shore does not try to be South Beach.
What everyone else said. In great rivalries the trans respect eachother, but hate eachother at the same time. What we saw yesterday was the furthest thing from respect.
I hate to say it, but I feel like this whole MSU hatred thing of UM all comes back to Tressel. I don't recall this rivalry being so much "talk" until D'antonio got there. Saban never talked even though he was still very competitive. D'antonio is an Ohio guy that coached under Tressel at both Youngstown State and OSU. I have no doubt that his hatred for UM and the style he's learned all comes from Tressel. They are pretty much mirror images of each other. Lets just hope D'antonio doesn't jump ship for OSU.
I'll respect Sparty when they earn it. They can achieve this by respecting the fact that they are playing other human beings, cleaning up their field, having their coach move to Ohio, actually punishing players who break rules, clean up their field, stop pretending like it's only a 1 game season, and stop being douches in general. Maybe then. Maybe.
Please note that none of the things I listed have nothing to do with the scoreboard.
Too bad for sparty fans that they had to wake up today and realize they are still sparty fans. The average football fan still doesn't give a shit about them. They are an afterthought in the world of College football. They root for a regional program, attend an average University and will never be Michigan. Win or lose it's gotta suck to be them.
Ends when you try to break someone's neck at the bottom of the pile.
Be tough in the game - a couple roughing the passer penatlies? Whatever. Late hit out of bounds? Whatever. Those can be mistakes coming from intensity during play so long as its within reason.
Punching people? Facemask that's not incidental to a tackle? Hitting defenseless people well after they are outside of the play? That is dirty and does not earn respect no matter the score.
Respect? Really, MSU fans don't give a shit whether you're respect us or not. We don't want your respect, we want your skulls on poles in front of our stadium. And we'll be coming for more next year. Hide your women, hide your wives, keep the kids out of the stadium. The bad men are coming.
Get off my blog.
As a woman, I find your threat of rape and pillaging somewhat entertaining and I expect nothing less than for you to bring your big, bad selves to the game next year. I'll be there. Wouldn't miss it.