Interesting Miles Excerpt from Three and Out
This very interesting excerpt from Three and Out, which comes out on Tuesday, sheds some light on the coaching search in 2007-2008 that resulted in Rodriguez being hired.
Points of the article are:
- Miles stated in a December 2007 conference call with Bill Martin and MSC that he would accept the position only if they waited until January as he would not leave before the LSU bowl game.
- Carr was the one who first reached out to Rodriguez.
- Dave Brandon stated in 2010 that Miles would get the HC job "over his dead body."
Based on the article it sounds as though Miles would have been our next HC after Carr, if not for Carr's interference. For the record, even considering the success of LSU this year I would never have supported Miles getting the job. Call me crazy, but there are many successful college HC's that I have on my personal "do not hire" list, which includes Les Miles.
October 24th, 2011 at 1:25 PM ^
..the more I think there has to be something to it. Les Miles has had some great teams at LSU but his players have a bad habit of making fools of themselves... I wish him well where he is, and thank The Good Lord that he isn't our coach.
Hoke-A-Mania For LIFE!
October 24th, 2011 at 1:36 PM ^
Why is he so disliked among the fanbase and alumni?
October 24th, 2011 at 1:47 PM ^
Rampant speculation/rumors that he's dirty as hell.
In addition, many people, including, I think, Carr, thought that Miles used false rumors about Carr's health to negatively recruit Michigan recruits.
October 24th, 2011 at 1:48 PM ^
He banged Mrs. Moeller.
October 25th, 2011 at 12:25 AM ^
Yeah... he also acts and talks like a complete imbecile..He sounds like a mix between two famous politicians that I won't mention. Yeah... I'd kill to have that guy as the face of our great university.
October 25th, 2011 at 3:31 AM ^
And Hoke makes liberal use of the word "daggone." So what?
Michigan fans haven't done themselves any favors in the past by putting a lot of emphasis on silly things like press conferences.
October 24th, 2011 at 1:52 PM ^
Look at some of the stories you hear out of Baton Rouge regarding recruiting, player dismissals for scholarship limit reasons, general "SEC-ness." He's a really good recruiter and coach, but he has a stink on him that seems to rub the UM family the wrong way.
October 24th, 2011 at 1:56 PM ^
The Michigan fan base has the se super high expectations but any more you can't live up to those expectation levels unless you bend and break rules. It's a fact of life especially when everybody else is doing it. I know people want to be able to be the exception and proudly point to their Michigan program that somehow finds a way to win and do it clean but with the Monster programs in the SEC running things the way they do it's just not possible to do. Your best bet is to either augment expectations downwards or accept that you're football program won't be squeeky clean.
October 24th, 2011 at 3:18 PM ^
Michigan has had a very good record against the SEC and has accomplished this without running a dirty program. Ohio State has had an abysmal record against the SEC and, well, need I say more? Our best bet is to do things the right way and to play sound football.
October 24th, 2011 at 3:42 PM ^
I fear that going forward this will be less true
October 24th, 2011 at 8:39 PM ^
Why on earth do you feel that way? Hoke has done everything above board in his previous stops and from what we've seen of him here thus far.
October 25th, 2011 at 9:52 AM ^
I believe OverTheTop's fear is that, going forward, it will be harder to remain successful while maintaining the integrity we all expect from the program. It was in response to mgobluebraelow pointing out that Michigan's record against the SEC is good while Ohio State's is bad.
October 26th, 2011 at 11:50 AM ^
But Michigan's record has been good doing it the right way, and Ohio State's record has been bad doing it the wrong way. So what would cause the paradigm shift where evil started prevailing over good?
October 24th, 2011 at 3:57 PM ^
Most Michigan alums want the program to be highly successful but would rather have the program be a little less successful if it was not possible to have both success and integrity. Fortunately, it looks like Coach Hoke will find a way to be both successful and ethical. Although it may be harder to both follow the rules and win, I continue to believe both that it will be done and that it is the Michigan way.
October 24th, 2011 at 10:17 PM ^
What I really want is for everyone to play fair. While that won't happen, that would be what I want.
October 24th, 2011 at 1:55 PM ^
He may have indirectly caused Gary Moeller's firing.
October 24th, 2011 at 11:20 PM ^
Nevermind.
October 24th, 2011 at 2:29 PM ^
Also another rumor that he banged an old UM coaches wife, which lead that coach to drink mass quantities of alcohol..Again, just a rumor, no facts that I know of. But that is why anyone from the Bo coaching tree dislikes him.
October 24th, 2011 at 2:47 PM ^
For what it's worth, I know a guy in Schembechler Hall who absolutely swears that this rumor is completely true, and was well known inside the halls of UM. Not sure if that's what killed his candidacy, but it seems like a guy like LC (let alone GM) wouldn't have a sense of humor about it.
October 24th, 2011 at 3:13 PM ^
I affirm from some people that were in Schembechler Hall around the time Les was still in AA that he had a funny way of having his penis turn up in places it wasn't supposed to be.
Don't forget, his current wife was his mistress (and an asst women's basketball coach I believe) while he was coaching here. He got divorced from the woman he was married to while a coach here.
October 24th, 2011 at 4:53 PM ^
I have heard from people who (a) would know, and (b) I believe, that the rumors are true.
October 24th, 2011 at 11:31 PM ^
So why is the fact that it was consensual, presumably, overlooked by Carr et al? It takes two to tango.
October 24th, 2011 at 3:13 PM ^
I affirm from some people that were in Schembechler Hall around the time Les was still in AA that he had a funny way of having his penis turn up in places it wasn't supposed to be.
Don't forget, his current wife was his mistress (and an asst women's basketball coach I believe) while he was coaching here. He got divorced from the woman he was married to while a coach here.
October 24th, 2011 at 3:13 PM ^
I affirm from some people that were in Schembechler Hall around the time Les was still in AA that he had a funny way of having his penis turn up in places it wasn't supposed to be.
Don't forget, his current wife was his mistress (and an asst women's basketball coach I believe) while he was coaching here. He got divorced from the woman he was married to while a coach here.
October 24th, 2011 at 3:44 PM ^
Triple posted, so it must be true
October 24th, 2011 at 10:01 PM ^
are awesome
October 25th, 2011 at 7:20 AM ^
it's a well established precedent.
October 24th, 2011 at 4:58 PM ^
Truths
1. He's SEC dirty
2. He's SEC dirty
3. He's S...yea, but it can't be understated. Remember that video ESPN Outside the Lines did on his tactics? Getting kids off the team.
4. His recruiting is overrated, he's considered by many to be a dirty recruiter. I'm not saying money. I'm saying badmouthing other programs.
5. His assistants are widely believed to be the reason for his success. Especially defensively.
6. His coaching blunders...
7. His lucky, but dumbass playcalls...
8. He's S...sorry, almost slipped. He's not "donor friendly."
9. He's old.
10. He's not considered a "face" of Michigan. In other words, he's bad for PR, he's not going to say the right things, etc. See Notre Dame and Brian Kelly...his "demeanor" has caused A LOT of trouble in South Bend.
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Rumors
1. He boinked Gary Moeller's wife. Not lying. It's a legit rumor. Google it.
October 24th, 2011 at 5:45 PM ^
Holy Sh*t! I'd never heard that rumor and, if true, certainly changes things for me.
However, the assistants meme us BS. Pellini was his DC the MNC and then was HC at Neb....who has the better D?
October 24th, 2011 at 6:53 PM ^
The rumor is well-known and oft-repeated. The story is that Moeller's wife had an affair with Miles, Moeller found out about the affair, which caused problems in his marriage, which caused him to start drinking, which led to that fateful night at the Excalibur, which led to Miles' permanent exile from Ann Arbor. Two facts lend weight to the rumor: 1) literally as soon as Carr took over as coach, Miles bolted for Oklahoma State, and 2) the police report of Moeller's drunken meltdown at the Excalibur states that during his tirade, he used "an ugly epithet" to refer to his wife. In the first Q&A post for Three and Out, Bacon writes this:
I kept out more than a few salacious details because they were not sufficiently sourced or they were not relevant to the main questions, and felt like cheap shots.
I think this is an implicit reference to that rumor. Due to the rumor's sensitive nature, no one who matters will speak about it on or off the record, so it will likely forever remain in the realm of speculation.
October 24th, 2011 at 8:32 PM ^
We should clarify that while it's generally accepted that Miles was a philanderer (and he was even nicknamed "Loose Morals" when he was here), not everyone believes the specific rumor that has him sleeping with Moeller's wife. Other versions have it involving different people. That he left shortly after Carr was appointed does not necessarily prove a connection to Moeller's wife. He and Carr seem to have disliked each other even then, but it could have been for other reasons.
October 24th, 2011 at 10:34 PM ^
I'm trying to think through the appropriateness of this thread, that is to say, the parts of the thread speculating on the dislike of Miles by Carr et al, because Miles banged Moeller's wife (which, BTW, is also on Moeller's wife, if this in fact happened.) It's not that I'm offended by the content. It's just, at what point is it ok to post things like this? Would it be ok to post stuff like this bout players or recruits? Is it relevant? I guess it explains some things with Carr, but I dunno, a lot of these posts seem skanky.
October 25th, 2011 at 12:02 AM ^
...and we'll have a post about her if she's ever considered for a coaching job at Michigan or gets involved in an SEC oversigning scandal.
October 24th, 2011 at 8:04 PM ^
It's not just Pelini, but also John Chavis.
I'm not saying I agree or disagree...but we're talking about why he wasn't hired. And one of the truths to why he wasn't hired is because a lot of people think he's a dumbass who has awesome assistant coaches. Pete Carroll in a completely different light was considered a guy who was an average/below average coach with AWESOME assistants for a long time.
It's perception. However, where as some people think Carroll is a "meh" coach...there are people that think Les Miles is a completely dumbass with shady tactics that help him and an amazing staff that do the actual coaching.
Some of these same folks may think Hoke is an average coach with amazing assistants. Once again it's perception.
I was just listing some of the many reasons Miles would never get a sniff. Many are just truths as to watch decisions makers think. Then there is that one rumor...personally, I wouldn't be shocked, everything about Les MIles says it could be true...but I'd never go as to far as to put it in the "truth" category without knowing for sure.
October 24th, 2011 at 8:35 PM ^
You left out one biggie: the contention that Miles either 1) was told confidential information about Carr's health and let it spill to recruits or 2) made up rumors about Carr's health to win a recruiting battle. Either way, it was enough to reignite the hatred between the two men.
October 24th, 2011 at 9:55 PM ^
That's what I meant by dirty recruiter.
I wouldn't touch Miles with a 10 foot pole. I would've rather had abbrasive ass Brian Kelly with Ryan Mallett and Adrian Arrington back.
I don't like all the Michigan Man/Michigan inside the fort bullshit that goes on...too much "good ol boy network" for me. But Miles has done enough OUTSIDE the fort for me to think he's a wackjob.
October 24th, 2011 at 11:36 PM ^
It's naive to think that Michigan doesn't engage in dirty recruiting, i.e. bad-mouthing other schools and gently pushing kids out the door to make room for others. Let's not be homers.
October 24th, 2011 at 11:46 PM ^
That could be, but what Miles reputedly did on the recruiting trail against Carr went beyond simply badmouthing. If it's true that he was given medical information in confidence and then not only blabbed, but used it against us . . . I couldn't imagine how betrayed Carr must have felt then. How could Miles expect to say something like that to recruits and not expect to have it come back to haunt him? He knew the job was coming open soon.
October 25th, 2011 at 12:04 AM ^
I hear you, but how do we know that's true? Also, even if it is true, he might have learned it from someone who had no allegiance to M and who didn't tell him in confidence. Finally, until Miles is a coach for M, doesn't he owe it to LSU to get the best kids he can to come play there? Saying someone isn't going to be around much longer probably happens to PSU for likely every single recruit. I don't think people would be trashing Hoke if he engaged in the same recruiting tactics. Although, we would probably never know, which is my point.
October 24th, 2011 at 10:26 PM ^
Maybe the best thing a head coach can do is to surround himself with even better coaches. The HC gives some direction, but can manage to do a lot more because he has a great staff that knows how to coach. Any HC who does this, whether Miles or Hoke or Carroll, has done a huge thing by not being threatened by having great assistant coaches.
October 24th, 2011 at 1:25 PM ^
I couldn't agree more. As we learned with RR, winning is not the only thing to look for in college head coach. After some of the things Harbaugh has said, it kind of turned out well that we didn't hire him either.
October 24th, 2011 at 1:49 PM ^
"RR, winning is not the only thing to look for in college head coach."
RR's main problem was simply that he didn't win at Michigan. Even with all of his faults (and the behind the scene screwjob he got) the issue was simply that he didn't win games.
October 24th, 2011 at 1:57 PM ^
Rich Rod is not a good example of a coach who was bad for a program in spite of winning. If Rich Rod had won, most fans would have supported him.
Jim Tressel is a much better example of why winning isn't the only thing that matters.
October 24th, 2011 at 2:12 PM ^
Even if RR was a winner, he still didn't recruit the kinds of players that make Michigan Michigan. With RR as coach, I believe A LOT less NFL-potential recruits thought about coming to play for Michigan.
Before RR, Michigan was known for catapulting a lot of players into the NFL. Also, its not an offense that has seen a lot of success going up against BIG TEN Defenses. It certainly would have helped if he would have found a great D-coordinator to recruit a traditional shut-down Michigan defense, but at the end of the day, it was not a good fit - win or not.
October 24th, 2011 at 2:30 PM ^
however, my advice is to be careful how you state it. "kinds of players" could be interpreted many ways. Rich Rod's offensive and defensive schemes required a different set of skills, that does not as directly translate to the NFL might be a better way to put it. That is a change from where we as fans were used to being.
Of course there are many spread teams out there supplying players to the NFL - so maybe we'll never know on that one.
That said, I do believe that a factore in the current staff's recruiting success is the "Michigan is back to being a pipeline to the NFL" storyline.
October 24th, 2011 at 2:58 PM ^
I thought RR's problems with his offense started and ended with him not recruiting the best. In the Capital One bowl we ran a version of the spread, (granted not RR's version) but we tore Florida up with that. I do understand that the Gators weren't prepared to defend what M came out with as a game plan, but that offense was pretty potent. My opinion is, and will continue to be that RR downgraded the talent pool because he was looking for certain "fits" in personell. I think the kids that he recruited are quality kids, but we have been overmatched in our big games.
October 24th, 2011 at 11:38 PM ^
October 25th, 2011 at 7:54 AM ^
because they lost
1. All-time rushing leader: Mike Hart
2. All-time passing leader: Chad Henne
3. #1 overall draft pick: Jake Long
4. 2 WRs who were drafted in the NFL: Manningham and Arrington
5. Future NFL player: Mallett
6. All-Big 10 OG: Boren
You wonder why the talent is downgraded. Michigan lost a TON of offensive weapons and was left with a QB who isn't a starting BCS material(Threet) and a walk-on(Sherdian) and a patchwork of OL in which RR has to rebuild.
October 25th, 2011 at 11:26 AM ^
Um. Threet transferred to Arizona State and started there before suffering a career ending concussion. While he wasn't a superstar, he certainly was a BCS level quarterback.