Interesting convo I had with a prominant Chicago HS basketball coach
So, I had the opportunity to speak with a Chicago HS basketball luminary in a casual situation earlier today. I won't drop his name at this point, but he coached some of Chicago's best talent over the past 30 years at a couple well known Chicago high schools. He apparently just retired this year. I asked some very pointed questions about basketball topics, specifically regarding college recruiting, and he (thankfully) did not hold back on giving me some very candid and real answers. Thought I would share with the board:
1. College bball recruiting is extremely dirty (duh!)
2. While he thinks the NCAA does their best to monitor this, he seems to believe that college coaches are much smarter and can "stay ahead" of the NCAA. He says there are very sophisticated ways to pay players and their families without suspicion.
3. Coach K - dirty as hell (I was kinda surprised by this)
4. Coach Cal - dirty as hell (duh!)
5. Coach Pitino - dirty as hell (duh!)
5. Izzo - sends his assitants to do his dirty work. He says he was offered money from Dwayne Stephens on several recent occasions for particular recruits (although I don't know if he actually accepted the money). He thinks that Izzo is not as bad as others though. Izzo has a lot of respect in Chicago and is not normally known for playing dirty. However, his people told him that Izzo's recent recruting success is no doubt from some "below the belt" tactics.
6. The Jabari Parker recruitment was surprising clean on a relative scale.
7. As for Michigan/JB - clean, very clean, but too clean. Most promimant Chicago HS coaches stay away from Michigan because Michigan won't be part of the "recruiting machine" in Chicago. They think JB is a good coach but teaches "white boy" basketball. He basically says Michigan/JB has no respect in Chicago anymore.
I mentioned I was a Michigan fan and talked some more about our program. He has tons of respect for us becasue he had lots of interaction with Michigan many years ago. Back in the 90s, Michigan was THE school for Chicago's best talent. He says we were not a clean program then, but he says that no one was and Michigan was no different than any other major program. He seems to think we have little to no chance with big time recruits in any major city without getting a little dirty.
He had some funny things to say about Amaker, but I'll save for later.
Anyway, thought I would share with the board. What are your thoughts? Would you be OK with getting a little dirty to get better recruits? Are you OK with being a super clean program now that can't consistent compete on the big stage?
December 28th, 2015 at 9:38 AM ^
I agree with this. I'm in. Give me a piece of paper to sign.
But until that point, I don't have any problem rejecting (1) an immoral policy that (2) nobody follows anyway.
I don't much care for the mysogyny inherent in it, but the expression "whores that don't put out on Sunday" comes to mind.
December 28th, 2015 at 10:42 AM ^
Even if they paid the players, someone would figure out how to game the system to get an advantage. If a team is already inclined to work outside the rules, what's going to stop them from figuring out a way to pay players more outside of any NCAA boundaries?
December 28th, 2015 at 3:34 PM ^
Allow the player collective bargaining organizations that can police themselves.
It isn't about "paying players", its about giving players to organize and gain footing in negotiations.
December 28th, 2015 at 9:14 AM ^
December 28th, 2015 at 9:51 AM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
December 28th, 2015 at 3:32 PM ^
Following an arbitrary set of rules doesn't make someone better than another who doesn't follow that arbitrary set of rules.
Nothing about following NCAA's rules makes a program more ethical than a program that doesn't because NCAA rules are ethically bankrupt.
December 28th, 2015 at 4:17 PM ^
Then what's the value of an NCAA championship?
I think that's the central question being glossed over in all the cheat to win cuz NCAA is Bullshit posts... WHY are we trying to win this?
December 28th, 2015 at 9:38 AM ^
December 28th, 2015 at 10:40 AM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
December 28th, 2015 at 11:28 AM ^
December 28th, 2015 at 9:41 AM ^
And I'm not surprised at all that something that's organized in Chicago aligns with dirty tactics.
December 28th, 2015 at 10:00 AM ^
December 28th, 2015 at 10:08 AM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
December 28th, 2015 at 11:28 AM ^
December 28th, 2015 at 12:01 PM ^
...please post.
Also, the only rival I mentioned was MSU/Izzo* and I never said anything about any MSU success with regards to dirty tactics. While I never really got into the details, its perfectly plausible that MSU tried to by dirty, but couldn't outbid other suitors.
You and a few others don't believe me, and that's fine. But what I find interesting is that most of things I stated are really not that suprising, in that they echo what we kinda already know. What's more, accordingly to you, it aligns to a suite of articles, but yet its BS and a troll job.
*I don't really consider Duke/Louisville/Kentucky our rival, all of whom have pulled big time recruits or recruited hard out of Chicago recently
December 28th, 2015 at 12:43 PM ^
December 28th, 2015 at 1:04 PM ^
But how am I making our fanbase look petty and pathetic?
December 28th, 2015 at 2:45 PM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
December 29th, 2015 at 9:50 PM ^
I'm not going to be as hard as you as the other guy but why would a superstar HS coach just decide to spill all of this info out to some random dude who could say go on the internet and post a bunch of gossip with the guys name attached? Doesn't seem believable. But apparently I am one of the few who think this way. Just seems a bit convenient imo. Interesting though.
December 28th, 2015 at 11:35 AM ^
first, We're supposed to believe a no name poster who has a conversation as a fan with a coach that isn't named. O.K., lets take that leap of faith. Then, we're supposed to assume that at this first time ever meeting, he bumps into them and this coach goes deep into who is paying kids off, who isn't and not only that, gave him a history lesson on how Chicago cheated in the 90's for Michigan, but "every school was". O.K., I'll jump into that fantasy too. Finally, I'm supposed to believe that Coaches K, Cal and Petino have all personally paid off players, but Izzo has his assistants do it. Cause he's dirty but he is smarter than those three. Paying kids off is great for Izzo cause he doesn't get Chicago kids.
Dude, here's your deal. The program at Michigan just isn't very good. Making fiction up to please yourself won't help it. Just hope Beilein captures lightening in a bottle again with some good kids. He's good at X's and O's. if he gets the right kids, you might have another magical seaosn. If not, it's really just an average program anyway, what exactly are you expecting. Making up stories won't help you.
December 28th, 2015 at 1:55 PM ^
Michigan should drop to a level where that isn't the case, even if it is NAIA or something like that.
Then the big-time sports fans can cheer their pro football and basketball teams and university athletics are once again reserved for students who just happen to like playing sports.
December 28th, 2015 at 4:37 PM ^
The amazing thing is my Grandfather (Class of '28) who participated in intercollegiate athletics for Michigan in several sports, was a part of the Alumni Assoc. in both A2 and then the Phoenix area for over 70 years, football season ticket holder for 60+ - was making this case as long ago as 30 years.
In his day the rampant cheating that everyone in football committed (causing the creation of the NCAA & the Ivy schools to ultimately do away with scholarships) had been largely tamped down by the advent of the NCAA. But by the 70s he knew what time it was though.
Obviously something so dramatic would have to happen for Michigan to forego the immense rights fees & donations competing at the highest level garner - but this whole dialogue about whether to lower your standards, or whether there even should be any standards, shows how far nearly ALL of us have come that we don't even consider whether college sports should really be for student athletes anymore. It's all just debating degrees of clean or even the notion there is such a thing.
Blue's idea is one to discuss...
December 28th, 2015 at 1:55 PM ^
Michigan should drop to a level where that isn't the case, even if it is NAIA or something like that.
Then the big-time sports fans can cheer their pro football and basketball teams and university athletics are once again reserved for students who just happen to like playing sports.
December 28th, 2015 at 5:35 PM ^
December 28th, 2015 at 8:57 PM ^