Ohio coaches love Brady Hoke, especially with Meyer only picking and choosing to recruit a few kids from the state
Interesting article from Sam Webb on Glenville/Ted Ginn, Sr.
Ohio coaches love Brady Hoke
So that's who is buying up all those jerseys!
Yep. Never in a million years I would have thought that.
He's really turning the tide on the rivarly...
I thought it was the Hell people.
Hell people, Ohioans.
In Meyer's first year he failed to really even offer Ohio kids until after he had checked everywhere else for talent, thinking he could just come back to them later and they would come aboard.
This year, he realized that's not the way to treat a talent rich bunch that has often prided itself on having one major college team (which is a big difference from Florida), so he decided to offer more a bit earlier.
But he still doesn't really get it. He did better this year, but he slow played or held off several virtual locks so he could go after "his guys", then those guys said screw it and went else where. I still think OSU has and is going to have the majority of the strength in Ohio, but this little by little builds up and suddenly Ohio looks a lot more like the rest of the midwest, where being local gives you an initial leg up, but the borders are far from locked.
I agree about Meyer taking for granted that Ohio kids are just going to wait it out for him to come calling. The state borders are definitely blurring and I think Buckeye Nation is starting to see that fact. One of the local sports talk guys was just saying yesterday that Meyer is planting the Buckeye flag in Michigan, which is complete BS other than Webb's commitment. I can only think that this would be him trying to deflect his own anxiety over Hoke getting lots of top Ohio talent since his arrival.
If I may introduce a few stats into this conversation: In Meyer's 2013 class, he had 10 of 24 recruits from the state of Ohio and those included the #1, 2, 5, 7, 11, 12, 14, 20, 22, and 25 ranked players in Ohio. This year, Meyer has a total of 6 of 14 recruits from the state of Ohio including the #2, 3, 4, 6, 9, and 11 ranked players in Ohio and is in very good position for #1. Is he upping the standards of Ohio commits? Yes, absolutely. Does he "not get it"? The facts showing elite talent staying in the state says otherwise.
He's definately doing well for himself, but players aren't just committing to OSU because it's OSU. Kief was supposed to be a lock, and went to Bama. Many OSU fans are upset about not getting in on Kizer. I think Meyer is doing well in Ohio, but I also think his focus on other regions is starting to make recruits, and more importantly, coaches think that players should explore their options rather than saying "OSU is the best option". That's a significant difference, and one that if it continues to grow, Meyer won't get that level of class, even if he continues to recruit the state of Ohio very well (it is, after all, the only major football school in the state).
Isn't that what we do with Michigan?
- Michigan as a state has lower quality numbers
- When Hoke offers Michigan kids he recruits them hard, none of the wishy-washy BS Meyer has been doing
- Hoke doesn't slow play the good talent as if they aren't good enough while essentially saying you're not as important
I think those are the major differences. I do think Meyer is trying to adjust his recruiting strategy instate to fit the mold of what OSU needs to do, because it is very different than Florida and what he was accustomed to. While Meyer has roots in Ohio, his recruiting roots obviously are not from the midwest, while Hoke's are. It'll be interesting to see how the recruiting philosophy changes in the near future.
I read the article and Lattimore and Smith say they aren't necessarily going to O$U simply because they're from Glenville, but I'll believe that when they both sign LOI's elsewhere.
How much money does U dollars convert to? And what is zero U dollars and how does it apply to these recruits? TIA.
To me it is just high school coach speak until things start to change (winning a head-to-head recruiting battle against ohio for a Glenville kid).
Didn't Michigan just land a Glenville kid in one of the recent classes? I don't remember who it was, though, and definitely don't remember if said mystery recruit had an OSU offer.
Frank Clark and Willie Henry both went to Glenville. But I don't think either had OSU offers, IIRC.
You are absolutely correct. Ginn still will send kids to Michigan, and will gladly send kids that don't get OSU offers to Michigan. It would be absolutely idiotic for him to burn that bridge. But until it ever means anything more than that - and maybe it well, I dunno - I'm going to believe it's only coach speak.
Sr. says his wife is still mad that Jr. didn't go to Michigan. She's not alone, buddy.
He's devoted his entire life to helping at-risk youth using football. Ginn is more interested in sending his players to the school that is best for them, not just pushing towards Ohio. The RR family values accusation didn't sit well with him, and our relationship with Glenville took a hit.
Brady Hoke and Ted Ginn Sr both have the same philosophy when it comes to their players, that's why they get along so well.
For some reason I'm drawing a blank on the "family values" thing. Can you refresh my memory? I vaguely recall that being a thing, but no specifics are coming to mind.
I believe it was part of the Boren exit kerfuffle. Specifics vary based on the story you hear, it boiled down to Boren throwing a hissy fit on his way out the door and blaming his exit on RR's "lack of family values" (one version suggests that RR won't give Justin's younger bro a scholarship, hence the family aspect). The accusation kind of stuck, and it was a reputation that RR had to kind of fight against during the rest of his tenure.
Another suggestion was that RR didn't want Boren going home to help with the family plow business during the winter. If that's not just a joke (I can never tell), then I wouldn't be surprised if both things put together led Boren to use the family values stuff as an excuse when he realized he wasn't going to be able to hack it with the new weight program.
2 full winters now and had to shovel my driveway exactly zero times. Still not sure how much money there is in the snowpw business down here
The comment by Chuck here suggests it's a landscaping business, too: http://www.thebuckeyeblog.com/justin-boren-a-tale-of-two-programs-ohio-s...
Reliable sourcing, I know.
That's the first time I've heard that version (younger Boren's scholarship) of the "family values" comment.
The version I've heard most is that RR didn't want Boren traveling back to Ohio to help with his family's snow plow business. Maybe I heard this version more because it was just a joke? I don't know.
Your version could be spot on, for all I know.
I'm not sure how much time RR had to spend fighting that perception (or misperception). Regardless, I have read several articles now that have referenced what a good relationship Ginn Sr. has with Brady Hoke and Greg Mattison, which is nice. A good working relationship with a key coach in an area like northeast Ohio can't hurt.
I wish Lattimore and Smith the best. They sound like a couple of good kids. I still have a hard time believing that the best kids from Glennville will end up anywhere besides OSU. I hope I'm wrong.
The lack of a scholarship for baby bro was 100% behind his transfer and comments (if you think he has a problem with salty language, you've never heard him speak). The family thought a scholarship had been promised by the Carr staff (for whatever reason) and that RR pulled the rug out from under them when he took over.
As for battling perceptions, Coach Carr landed a total of 8 kids from Ohio in his last 4 full recruiting classes (post Woods dust-up). Rodriguez landed 14 in his two full classes. He added 3 more on the back end of the 2008 class and had 3 in the 2011 class before getting fired.
RR shouldn't come off as to blame, nor should Carr... Fact is that its a big deal for an Ohio kid like Boren to play for Michigan, when the whole state then shuns your family, etc, especially having a dad like his... so a deal with Carr that the younger Boren would also get a scholarship, AND that he can return home to do the plowing, is fine by me... it balances out alot of crap they gotta put up with leaving the state, and if that is what it takes, then so be it.
It was RR's prerogative to say no to the plow thing, but it was also Carr's right to allow him that, and even Boren's right to leave, if it weren't being honored. It sucks, but so be it.
Is there any confirmation that Carr made those agreements? I've heard a lot of stories about Boren, but I've never heard that Carr promised Boren time off to go plow for his dad and a scholarship saved for his brother.
I've heard many more stories about Justin and his family being very entitled and simply demanding these special considerations as a matter of course.
Quote from a school board meeting about new rules for transfers (need to transfer by 7th grade for athletes): "Why are you targeting only athletes?" parent Hope Boren asked. "Why would there not be penalties for students in theater, 'In the Know' and more?" (also includes quote from yet another school board meeting)
Board poster on a local site: "The Boren's are emailing all the parents of athletes at Central crying about how unfair the school board is."
Quote from a report on another school board meeting: "Boren said her sons' high school experiences had suffered because they had to play football at North rather than Central."
From that local site again, so now there's a rule named after them... "I know that they instituted the ''Boren Rule'' where you can transfer once without penalty, but not flip flopping depending upon the season."
At a township meeting regarding a request to allow behind-schedule school construction to go later at night, it was noted that Mrs. Boren "lives directly across from the school site. The noise and the vibration bothers them. They have 4 kids. She has two kids taking high school finals and an 8 year old...She is opposed to this"
Note, there is also a record of a deal with the school district for the district purchasing real estate from the family.
I am assuming they are talking a ojt the whole transferring and leaving the program of the Lloyd Carr recruits after RichRod was hired as coach, I.e. Justin Boren. A majority of the transfers said they transferred because the family values of the program were not the same.
i'm 99% sure the above poster was being sarcastic in his reference to vaguely remembering about "family values"
100%, it was not something one can forget...but you do want to forget. You may also feign forgetfulness as well.
The parting of ways between Glenville and Michigan had nothing at all to do with Rich Rodriguez. It had everything to do with Pierre Woods spending his last two years in the doghouse and on the bench after finishing second in tackles and first on the team in sacks and TFL as a sophomore on a Big Ten title team. That and the decision to not offer Ted Jr. as a wide receiver (only recruited him as a DB) are what pushed all the Glenville kids to OSU.
We have a winner! How the truth could get so muddled by the poster above is beyond me. The Woods riding the pine issue is one that still rankles to this day. The dude played for the Pats, being one bitten arm away from fully recovering an Eli Manning fumble to ice a SB win. I can't find the Belichek quote, but he excoriates LC for his treatment of Woods, IIRC, wondering wtf they were doing in AA.
Memory isn't perfect, but it looks like Woodley started getting PT around that time 2004 and sort of played that same OLB role (before moving to DE later in career) if I remember correctly.
Can obviously see wanting to get him on the field too, but I was always under the impression that Woods' doghouse status wasn't entirely football related. Also, playing them together more could have been murderous to opposing QB's.
There were definitely some rumors about off the field issues with Woods, but nothing was ever confirmed as far as I know.
Of course what we can hope for is Meyer to pull the same thing and favor a Florida recruit or one of his 'kids' over a Glenville kid and burn some bridges.
I find it hard to believe Ginn St would distance himself with RR's program because of something Carr did. If that was the case, why did it change when Hoke got here?
Carr's actions may have caused the rift, but RR's actions did not help mend it.
You are assuming Ginn distanced himself from RR's program. Ginn specifically said he likes Coach Hoke (and has for a long time) but nothing has actually changed, going back to Carr's tenure, as much of the perception about him directing kids is inaccurate.
There really isn't any evidence of this distancing. Marcus Hall visited here before choosing OSU. We didn't miss anything on Mike Edwards (went to Tennessee and got booted for attempted murder charges), Latwan Anderson (went to Miami on track scholarship and never saw the field before ending up at a JUCO), or Jonathan Newsome (never offered by UM, transferred to Ball State from OSU and got suspended for pot arrest). Christian Bryant is the only other BCS player who came out of Glenville in the two full recruiting cycles during RR's tenure. Looks like we didn't offer, though that may have been due to mutual disinterest (he never visited ND or Tennessee despite offers, but did visit MSU and UNC in addition to OSU).
IIRC, as per PurpleStuff, the Ted Ginn Sr. feud had to do with Carr not offering Ted Ginn Jr. a scholarship after Summer camp. Jr. wanted to come to Michigan, had a mediocre camp, and felt snubbed. That, and Pierre Woods in the doghouse.
If Lattimore were to pick Michigan in the end, that would be one of the most stunning decisions I've seen since I started following recruiting 13 years ago. Then again, Ohio got Webb from Cass Tech, so Glenville owes us one.
Hopefully Hoke and Mattison can continue to lure talent to UM from Glenville. On a side note good to hear the Ginn Sr. has been given a clean bill of health.
While I think Tressel and Ginn Sr. had some sort of "wink wink" agreement (which involved some cash) to funnel Glenville kids to Ohio, having RR didn't help our recruiting one bit. I think it was pretty clear that Ohio coaches didn't like and/or respect RR, which really hurt our Ohio recruiting when he was here.
This is a Michigan blog.
I don't know what their relationship was, but please don't disparage Ted Ginn. This is a man who couldn't get any major universities to look at his kids, and so he drove them to places in his own beat-to-hell vehicle on his own dime (and time). He didn't start out with some blue-blood program and simply keep the ball rolling...
I'm not naive enough to think that college football is clean, but Ted Ginn Sr. is a legend in Cleveland for what he's done to help his kids find the best opportunities possible, so dissing him for creating funnels (and as much as you may dislike Tressel, he knew how to build relationships with high school coaches) feels offensive...
We got way more kids from Ohio when Rodriguez was here than we did at the tail end of Carr's tenure. If any HS coaches didn't like RR, it was the ones in Michigan who got pissed when UM passed on some of their 4-star talent in 2009 in favor of out of state guys (who almost universally ended up being better football players).
Yet OSU wanted none of them...like Williamson, Rogers, TURNER, Isiah Bell... who else ? And I think most of them transferred.
In 2004 Carr signed one player from Ohio (Mike Massey, Ohio offer, career backup tight end who posted just 20 catches over 3 seasons of PT).
In 2005 he signed Mister Simpson (no Ohio offer, transferred out), Zoltan (stud punter, no Ohio offer), Mario Manningham (stud receiver), and Brandon Harrison (no Ohio offer, just okay starter).
In 2006 he signed Boren (high quality, multi-year starter, traitor), Cobrani Mixon (high quality linebacker that left program under Carr only to star at Kent State), and kicker Bryan Wright.
In 2007 he signed no players from Ohio.
That's five decent contributors in four years, one who left the program under Carr and another who left the program right after he retired, so only three who made any real impact at UM and four who might have if Carr hadn't retired. He also whiffed by not offering guys like Greg Jones and Jerel Worthy who made MSU a legit B1G contender.
Rodriguez signed Jake Ryan (all-conference honors as sophomore, 7.5 sacks and 27 TFL in career with two years of eligibility left), Roy Roundtree (2,304 career yards, 15 TD, last second game winning catches against ND and Northwestern, single game receiving yards record, all despite being biggest victim of offensive transition), Fitz Toussaint (1,642 yards, 5.1 ypc, 15 TD, still with a year of eligibility left), Patrick Omameh (first team all-conference from the coaches, 3+ year starter), and you could add someone like Jibreel Black, Mike Shaw (over 1,000 rushing yards and 15 career TD), or Courtney Avery (game-clinching INT against OSU) to round out a top five from just 2+ recruiting classes.
From what I understand it is not OSU that Ginn has always seemed to favor, but Jim Tressel specifically.
I'm totally speculating this next part, but I do wonder what effect tatgate had on the man. Clearly he is impartial now.
IMO, as long as a Glenville kid has an OSU offer, UM has 0.1% chance at best. No offense to Sam Webb and this article, but I think you can safely put the Brian "I'll eat a lemon" stamp on Lattimore/Smith coming to UM.
So what you're saying is that Lattimore and Smith will commit to Michigan and Brian will find some mgoloop-hole to avoid giving us that sweet, sweet lemon face we so crave?
Yes, and that loophole will be that their offers weren't "commitable"
So you're telling me there's a chance....
At around that time, he sent a super-talented linebacker to Michigan. The kid played like a beast as a sophomore, then rarely saw the field the rest of his career. Then he didn't get drafted, despite being talented enough to eventually stay in the NFL for 5 years.
On the other hand, his son goes to OSU, at a position UM didn't want to let him play, and earned various All-American honors and went in the top-10 of the NFL draft. He also sent them an unheralded QB who no one else really pursued and that guy won the Heisman Trophy. Donte Whitner also went on to be a top-10 pick and just went to the Pro Bowl this past season.
Not a shock that he would steer his kids there instead of to A2, really.
STARTING DEFENSE BABY! A PLACE AT THE TABLE!
Do we have a chance with Lattimore?
I doubt this because even though they said they aren't Ohio locks they probably are just saying that to keep the suspense and give us hope. If we do have an actual chance they have to get on campus. But I believe they are Ohio locks
I might be the only one but I never get tired of that joke.
RR may have made it if he somehow got Casteel to come, and/or stopped digging deeper with his behavior, as he did not seem conscientious of the tradition and everything that came before him.... imagine had he brought a legacy coach with him like Mattison, and deferred on tradition to him... in this case, RR may have made it here. But both things were needed.
RR is good at creating something from nothing... Arizona is a good spot for him.
I still like seeing this.