I'm sure that's all his fault? I don't care what he does if he comes here as long as he wins. He is slightly sketchy I would admit. However, he is a proven winner in an almost impossible conference and he recruits nationally which is highly important if we EVER want to be on Ohio States level again.
Integrity is worth more than Les Miles
but UM certainly will not win at all costs. That's not a bad thing.
i just posted this on the other thread but strongly feel it pertinent and worth saying again. (deep breath) neg me to bolivia if necessary.
i want to win, and bad -- but not at all costs.
guys, i come from the health profession, and it's a perfect translation or metaphor here. i have met many a surgeon who was awesome with his hands but a complete asshole. i was also fortunate to work with some of the best docs in the world who also kept it classy. one thing i've learned is no matter how good dr. hotshot j. asshole is, there's always someone as good or better who can do it and do it with the right attitude.
i see this as what makes a "michigan man." not that you come from bo, mo, or llo. this coaching tree stuff is bullshit. yes, we must win, we are michigan, but it's how we win that sets us apart.
i wasnt in favor of keeping RR but the guy strived to do it the right way. the mere fact that we are even discussing the ethics of LM isn't indicative of moving in the right direction. he's a spectacular coach, but if he can't play by the ground rules DB sets, then move on down our list to someone who can.
Football is a game; kids' lives are not.
What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
if RR detractors want to hold him responsible for 20+ extra minutes of stretching, then I think Les can certainly be held accountable for screwing student athletes. He is most certainly guilty of lying about it....you just watched the video, not to mention trying to slam the kid by indicating that he quit or wasn't putting in the effort. that's ookay with you, as long as you get more W's. Is that what M has become?
Let's be clear about this, we do not aspire to be on Ohio State's level, we aspire to be better than that. Sure we want to beat them, but let's not stoop to conquer.
Chris Garrett left LSU because he was fat and lazy. LSU needed a quarterback desperately. There is no way Miles would have run him off without reason.
So Garrett transfers to a small school, Northwestern State. And how does he do?http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=506840 He played in two games. In one game he went 1 for 6 for 7 yards and in the other was 5 of 7 for 35 yards.
Then he quit that school and transferred to Ole Miss.
College freshmen tend to struggle the first year away from home. You're calling an 18 year old student athlete fat and lazy during his first real time at home. By the way, do you think there is a minor chance that this was maybe in his head during the second stint? If you don't find fault in what Miles did, then your complete ignorance of reality terrifies me.
Garret gained tons of weight and transferred to Northwestern State and couldn't even start there.
You really think Miles would run off a QB for no reason when LSU only had 2 scholarship players at QB, neither of them very good?
what Saban does is okay then?
the kid was a freshman and had the rug pulled out from under him.
My sources tell me Gruden will be the next head coach of the Michigan Wolverines.
if one of the main problems with Rich Rod was a perception of character issues - how in the heck is Les Miles going to be viewed in the bright light of day, post Harbaugh let down. I don't think Les Miles will meet DB's public image criteria.
I can't understand how anyone who didn't like RR for ethical reasons could possibly even consider supporting Miles.
Hypocrisy. RR wasn't a "Michigan Man" but Les is. Whatever the hell that really even means anymore.
There's a story in SportsbyBrooks about a Michigan colored plane owned by a rich alum in Baton Rouge today: http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/univ-of-michigan-officials-jet-in-baton-ro...
Maybe it's nothing but that plane apparently took RichRod to West Virginia last year. Interesting.
Les Miles in not in Louisiana today, as he is currently playing the Cotton Bowl.
Who knows what business that person in the plane had in Baton Rouge. I can tell you that outside of the few casinos there, there's not a whole lot else to that city for on outsider besides LSU. Plus the report said that there was no record of that plane travelling there since at least September. When you read the article, you can't help but at least say "Hmmm."
Pros: He wins, a lot.
Cons: Everything else.
Conclusion: Les Miles would not be hired under any circumstance if I were DB.
Assume Miles signs 85 per year in the SEC and goes 6 and 6. He is not even in this conversation. I am NOT condoning oversigning. I am bemoaning the SEC's and NCAA's rules. And I don't blame Miles by playing by the SEC's rules in the SEC. Miles should not be the target of derision here.
is spot on. You play by the rules of the league you coach in. If you think U of M would let him oversign like he did in the SEC you are crazy.
Give me the Hatter. I wanted him three years ago and nothing has happened since to change my mind. Dude can recruit and he wins.
You either have it or you don't. Miles has demonstrated that he doesn't. I want a coach who does. I don't want someone who has to be "constrained" to do the right thing.
Sounds as if you were DB this program would continue to play little sister to MSU and Ohio State forever. As long as there not going to hire Hoke. I would puke and detach emotionally for the first time in 34 years. That would prove the dumbass Vallenti's point that Michigan is no longer a powerhouse.
In which case, I would suggest using the reply button, as I am doing now.
I'm not sure how me not wanting Les Miles hired would make me "continue to play little sister to MSU and Ohio State forever." There are clear things in the program, that Miles did, that had many people turn their back on him. I like winning. I also like integrity. Simply winning or simply having integrity aren't good enough and Miles has seemed to have burned too many bridges and has lost a ton of integrity. I'm not saying he's a bad coach, but there are much better options, Hoke being one of them, and that's doesn't mean I'm necessarily putting my support behind Hoke.
...Miles has seemed to have burned too many bridges and has lost a ton of integrity
Can you provide some more details on this statement? Are you saying he burned bridges in Ann Arbor? What actions caused this loss of integrity?
Not attacking you, just wondering what may have occurred that I am not aware of.
Personally, I'd be delighted with the hire. I don't believe there is a better option out there (assuming JH off the table) that can a) rebuild the program and b) unite the base by being a "Michigan Man". Given the talent that is on board, I think LM could pick up where RR left off and take us forward, 8-9 wins next year, rather than take us backwards like, say, Hoke would - albeit temporarily, but a 2-3 year regression/rebuilding nonetheless.
As for the allegations of immorality with recruiting, over-signing, et al, that is easily overcome. Simply put, DB tells him what he's done in SEC is not acceptable at UofM. Those aren't what I view as character flaws, especially when it's deemed acceptable by the SEC and his rivals are also doing the same thing. He does it here, he's out. I'm up for giving him a shot at leading this team back to greatness.
I think the idea from 2007 was that he'd left an upper-decker during a house party at LC's place.
It's well covered territory, but to recap....
-Miles made up a story about Lloyd Carr having Parkinsons, and was telling recruits that he would retire soon. Obviously, Lloyd and the University were none too pleased with this.
-And the coupe de grace...There was a rumor that while Moe was head coach, Les slept with his wife, Ann, thus leading to Moe's drunken tirade at the Excaliber, and Miles' expulsion from the staff
Thanks. I guess I was aware of those, but didn't see most of them as being that big a deal.
Sleeping with Mrs. Mo was one I hadn't heard before.
I also forgot to add that LSU just self-imposed sanctions for recruiting violations.
Considering Dave Brandon is all about cultivating the "Michigan brand," coupled with the probation from stretch gate, it might not be a great idea to hire a guy whose program was just hit with violations.
Something tells me the school wouldn't hire Miles if he'd literally fucked over Lloyd Carr.
The record not the damn name will determine Michigan's national standing. I hope Brandon has the courage and confidence of his own ability to make this decision and not wring his hands worrying about what name will please the masses.
OK, so Brandon addresses this with Miles if he is seriously considered. Yes, it's a mark against him. I do not see it as a deal-breaker because (1) it is, sadly, common in the SEC; (2) it is not common in the Big 10. Guys, we're electing a football coach and not a religious figure. Were this search to be decided by the Ayatollahs of Intergrity the only real candidates would be Ghandi and, perhas, Lloyd Carr.
No mother Theresa! Blasphemy.
..Miles, even his head-scratching, game on the line moves sometimes. As for everything else about him, LSU can have him.
He certainly knows how to win, and even the extra-curricular activities he engages in down there might be more a product of trying to compete in the SEC than his true morals. The "but" of his actions at LSU would be that once someone has compromised their morals, assuming he had them to begin with, it makes it easier to do the next time around, especially in a climate where the fanbase is clamoring for wins.
For me, regarding Miles, it's thanks but no thanks.
and LSU when LSU has never had a major NCAA infraction with football while Michigan was just hit with one two months ago.
Please read the definition of the word ethics and then compare the situation that got us infractions vs what Miles does to his players. Sacrificing the integrity of our program to win would be contrary to what a "Michigan Man" (whatever the hell it really is), means, wouldn't it? Obviously he wouldn't get away with recruiting tactics like that at Michigan, but the fact that he already has done it doesn't really sit well with me. Plus I hate coaches that suck at clock management.
I can see the argument both ways. But I'd be excited by one thing, at least. Miles will put a scare into the other B10 teams.
What about Gary Moeller?? One little incident... He did have a pretty good run. Certainly should be entertained if Miles is in the running.
Mo is also about 70 years old and hasn't coached anywhere in a decade.
I don't know if you were being sarcastic. Moeller didn't have one little incident-he had one that was made public. There were others that didn't appear in the paper. When he embarrassed the university, they decided it was time to pull the plug.
You're just making up shit now.
Ok guys just because ESPN did a feature on Les Miles doesn't make him the only coach to do this. I'm not saying it's a good thing but it's more of a systematic problem with the NCAA. They need to make rules that don't allow this to happen. As long as teams are competing with the likes of Saban and others that push the boundaries of rules, coaches are always going to look for ways to cut corners and in some cases players. College football has become a big nasty business and coaches are held accountable and punished for not winning. Even if you believe RR is the greatest guy in the world, he got fired because he didn't win and that's the bottom line in college football whether you like it or not. I'm not going to crucify Miles for it because I think you're all naive to believe this isn't happening to some degree at all major college football teams and just because ESPN isn't casting a light on every single coach doesn't mean there isn't things you don't know about some coaches that have coached here or you would want to coach here.
The point is you don't really know until they do this kind of feature which they do rarely and only to a small handful of coaches. While I agree it's not a good part of the sport, I'd be more interested in ways to tighten or correct the rules than blacklist only the few coaches that are exposed while theres dozens and dozens of others that do the same thing but simply don't get the same media attention.
Plus infinity bro. Preach on. If we can get Miles and we don't because of this, I'd be severely pissed. He gives us the best chance to win with what we've got. He's not tied to anyone offense. If he has Matt Flynn, he'll work with his talents. if he has Denard Robinson he'll work with his talents. His defenses are always good. This happens in college football. He's not a terrible human being for doing it.
Who did Terry Bowden eat? My god, he looks like a spitting replica of Fat Bastard.
I think the culture at Michigan is strong enough to ensure nothing like SEC player shenanigans happens here. I agree with the sentiment that what happens at LSU, although completely wrong, must be seen through the prism of the SEC where this stuff happens too frequently.
Bring Miles to Michigan and make a honest man out of him.
He will never coach in Ann Arbor, nor would I want him to. To treat players like that is immoral, irrespective of what the norm is in the SEC. Michigan isn't the "norm" and we don't want coaches who treat players in this fashion. One thing that is certain about DB, and that's his focus on building upon a positive brand image. Les Miles is the only coach on the "list" that I would have a serious problem supporting.
I may not love who they hire, but I'll support him. Unless it's Miles. Because that means we've sold our soul.
Is it possible that the Big 10 signing rules (whatever they are, ESPN mentioned them in that piece), could keep Miles from cutting kids? He wouldn't be allowed to go outside those rules.
The Big Ten does have rules against over-recruiting and then cutting. It has a strick 25 sch.per class policy, even when you lose players to transfers. This also includes any JUCO transfers and transfers from other colleges. With those rules and his love for the way Bo ran things I think he would be fine.
Also, this is simply the way things are done in the SEC, because they permit it. I mean at least he is not trying to buy Cam Newton.
Les is the guy for the job in my mind now that Harbaugh is out. He is a guy that can recruit and win immediately.
Ah, so the "everybody is doing it" defense.
Just because it is the norm in the SEC doesn't mean some coach couldn't have taken a moral stand and said "no, I will not lie and betray 18-22 year old kids."
Les had a chance to do that and be a leader - instead, he's just a follower. As cheesy as this will sound... At Michigan I want a leader not just someone who wins games.
Get off your high horse. If you are a head coach at a high profile D-1 school and want to keep your job, you have to win. And in the SEC, if you want to win, you need to play by the established rules. Could he have taken the high road and done it the "right way"? Sure. But it is likely he would have lost several more games and it would have cost him his job.
It is hard to be a leader if you are putting your career in jeopardy. Why should he play role of martyr?
So you think it's fine to cut these kids whose parents he's looked in the eye and promised an education, football and an environment that would look after their son's best interests? I mean come on man, once you've lost your word you don't have much left.
If we expect every coach that comes to Michigan to be a saint than we will turn into Notre Dame. An old coworker of mine in Baton Rouge is close friends with Miles and his family. He says that they are good honest people.
Sorry, I'll trust Miles' actions towards his players to be a better judge of his character than an "old co-worker" of yours.
Given the "sanctions" against UM over the past couple of years stemming from some pissed off players, can't we at least acknowledge that A) there are multiple sides to stories and B) just because an issue is brought forth to the news doesn't mean that the coach is an awful person and that every other program in the country doesn't do the same thing?
Every other team in the country does not do that, because the University of Michigan does not do that. Stretching too much is mildly different from cutting freshmen from the team right before the season starts. Recruiting way more players than you have slots for... really doesn't leave much room for interpretation; it's just shitty.
What players did Rodriguez screw over at WVU?
grumble grumble grumble "Pacman Jones" grumble grumble grumble
I want Michigan football to be fun. (Winning is a big part of making it so, but not the only part.) I'm wary of the oversigning stuff, but perhaps it is not a pattern, or something that would happen here. On everything else, Les "Phewer" Miles would make Michigna football fun.
Of course, talk of Miles brings a slew of brand new posters to the board.
Miles is literally the only feasible candidate they could hire that would anger me. I think he, Saban, and Houston Nutt are the only three coaches I'd reject out of hand, as I think they're the three largest pieces of shit in NCAA football.
Hire Miles, I buy Northwestern Tickets. I would not watch a game he was on the sidelines.
That would help with that three-year backlog of season ticket requests.
Every know-nothing, no morals, just started posting fan are the one's saying "Miles slimes kids, but wins!!", and it's all the established posters saying "Uhm, at Michigan that's not how we do it".
Ok, it's not that amazing.
If you don't want Miles and I understand the arguments against him and by no means am I defending him and you do not want Hoke....what options are left? Patterson, maybe but not holding my breath, plus not a "Michigan Man" whatever the eff that means. Face it, we need a coach who wants to be here. Harbaugh...nope, Fitzgerald...nope, Patterson....?, what other options do we have left?
I hear many names such as Gruden, Stoops, Peterson and Whittingham but not likely. It is time to find someone who wants to actually coach here and quit chasing pipe dreams.
Are you under the impression that Michigan couldn't sign 35 kids if we wanted to?
Nope. I'm sure we could if we wanted to. Not the point of my post.
I'd take hoke a million times before I'd consider Miles. Football is a GAME at the end of the day. These kids should not be collateral damage due to a desire to win games.
I agree with you....kids should be made into men while playing a great game. Many coaches do that well.....RR seemed to do that well but he did not win enough, so he is out the door. Now we are looking again for a coach to be the leader of men and win football games and unfortunately, we do not have many viable choices who want to coach here. It speaks to me on how the head coaching job is lookied at without the maize and blue colored glasses we all wear.
I hope we find the right fit and that is all. Be it Hoke, Miles, Patterson or any other random coach that has been thrown out on this blog the last couple of days.
Please just hire Hoke and get it over with. I have no desire to live through season of M fans mocking our coach for not being a "Michigan Man" and not observing every damn Michigan tradition to the tits.
Hire Hoke and give him a blank checkbook to hire the best assistants money can buy. If we can't inspire recruits with our coach, let's just dazzle with with our staff.
Go Blue, OK?
All of this "red flag" garbage is coming from the LC contingent at UM. Get a grip, it's 2011... if you think the baggage Les brings with him is the worst stuff out there, you are sorely naive and even more pathetically ignorant.
Les Miles is a proven winner who his players would run through a brick wall for. He's won a national championship, and fought back tears the last time he almost became our head coach. (Which would have happened if not for the background BS from Lloyd Carr and the ineptitude of Bill Martin.)
This is the #1 problem with Michigan fans--they want to win with some messiah from the heavens who has never said a bad word in their life or yelled at a player or cut a player or said anything controversial. There's a place where that exists--Candyland--you all can have fun there.
I can't wait for Les Miles to come on board so we can run a train through Ohio State, bring the pride back to Michigan, and turn the tables on them. GO BLUE.
I'll preface this by saying that I don't know Lloyd Carr, nor am I part of his apparently large, complex, mud slinging apparatus, nor am I connected to it:
Les Miles is scum. He oversigns kids, cuts them from the team, doesn't tell them about, then refuses to hold a conversation with them about it when they find out. He has presided over more than one academic scandal. He has only the faintest grasp on end-of-game clock management, and has a long history of mind-numbingly terrible end of game decisions. College sports are for those playing them more than the rest of us - someone who treats his players that poorly is morally unsuitable to be a college coach. If he were the coach of my alma mater, I would be ashamed.
Yes, I can count on one hand the number of end-game issues he mismanaged. I can also count on my entire families hands the number of wins he has.
For every end of game management issue you bring up, I can match with either The Horror, The Weekend Following The Horror and games of "playing not to lose".
Miles is the best coach for Michigan right now that is seemingly interested and has the pedigree to return us to the "leaders and best".
I ask any doubters to submit the name of a better coach that is willing to come here that hasn't already declined to discuss it or hasn't signed with an NFL team.
I see the slurping of Miles has begun.
Is Lloyd Carr a candidate for the job? No? Did I endorse Carr? No?
Then what is the relevance of a thing you have said?
...was that most coaches have an issue that can be brought up as a negative.
I chose Carr because most agree that he did a great job at Michigan but he too had a few bad moments, as I mentioned above.
Given their individual gaffs:
Lloyd was 122-40 at Michigan with a winning percentage of 75% and a National Championship.
Miles is 61-17 at LSU with a winning percentage of 78% and a National Championship.
With those winning percentages, it's easy to overlook both of their game mismanagement issues.
while at WVU. Rich didn't even boot him. How's that for integrity. How do I know this? My best friend was the team manager there for 4 years. What's my point? Every coach has skeletons in their closet. Get over yourself. This program is dying and we need a winner.
Les over signs because everyone in the conference does. He wouldn't do that here. He prob won't get to coach here because of the uppity attitude of our fanbase in the first place.
"ethical when required" is not the same thing as "ethical".
Chitown has hit the nail on the head.
I find it funny that the Miles to Michigan Mafia want Les because he is a, "Michigan Man," while at the same time, overlooking the volumes of slimy and underhanded things he has done in his career that spit in the face of what it supposedly means to be a, "Michigan Man."
Volumes of slime is naive and an overstatement. We as fans insist on winning records, B10 Championships and occasional national championships. Then when we find out how the sausage is made we say "oh no, not us." I'm sorry, but this is so naive. If you want a winning program, hire a winner. Les Miles is a winner. Please understand, I am not condoning breaking rules, but oversigning in the SEC is not breaking the rules. Change the rules (they are). Blame the SEC, not Miles. He has just done what he was supposed to do, and what we crave. He has won buckets of games.
Even if it means you screw over your players that the program is supposed to be about. Bo would punch you in the nards.
Haha this has to be a joke..
LM cuts kids because TOO MANY WANT TO PlAY FOR HIM. I am sure that kids and their parents know, or should know that they're kid could get cut. And here's some bitter 18-21 year old saying Les didn't even talk to me and everyone assumes its a fact. But when Boren transfers and calls out Michigan/RR everyone calls the kid an idoit and dismisses his comments..Nice double standard.
That being said, Les Miles coming to Michigan is exactly what this program needs.
"LM cuts kids because TOO MANY WANT TO PlAY FOR HIM."
Les Miles cuts kids because they sign more than 25 on signing day, which is an irresponsible practice, since they are required to have less than 25 scholarships handed out per class. They know this. It's an egregious practice that is completely incumbent upon the head coach.
You're a fool if you think there aren't "too many kids who want to play for UM." We don't sign more than 25 per class, period.
Our current recruiting class is overflowing with the opportunity to play for MIiiichigan...
Get real. Yes its a terrible practice and I feel awful for the kid, but a coach adapts to his surroundings. It was perfectly acceptable practice in the SEC, and as we all know that conference is brutal to win week in and week out. I truly believe he'd have no problem with that in Michigan, if he came.
"I truly believe he'd have no problem with that in Michigan, if he came."
Then you're desperate and naive.
Our current recruiting class is not a fair comparison, for that matter, since we're in the midst of a coaching search. Come on.
Every year thousands of student althetes from football to tennis lose their scholarships or are cut. It is the coaches job to recruit players and if they are determined to be good enough, offer them scholarships. From there it is the athletes responsiblity to EARN and up hold their end of the deal. If the coach believes the player is underachiveing or has limited potential their offer is pulled. Bottom line is, playing in a cut throat conference like the SEC, there is a good chance this could happen.
And as far as Michigan, of course thousands of kids want to play for Michigan. But how do you know we don't sign 25+? Oh thats right because were Michigan and we don't do anything wrong. A few years ago we could say "Michigan never practices more than the allowed time"
Thousands? Um, okay, can you verify these absurd stats you are throwing around?
I guarantee you there are not "thousands" of full-ride scholar-athletes that lose their scholarship every year to reasons other than:
- Choosing to leave school (that is, the student-athlete choosing)
- Serious injury
- Choosing to not continue playing the sport
- Breaking a code of conduct that carries the penalty of loss of scholarship
I'd bet anything that in sports other than football and basketball the scholarship "pull" is almost non-existant.
Hrmm maybe I should have been more explicit, the lost of scholies/status with the team was for all the reasons you just stated and some additional ones..And of course I don't have a fact to back up "thousands" that was simply a figuritve speech, take a deep breath.
You would be getting a -1.
Not that I would care, (or even notice), but I still have to ask why?
You have no morals, don't understand Michigan Football at all, and everyone would be better served if you went to root for another team that would make you happier. Saban and Alabama are probably right up your alley. Win a lot, cheat a lot, don't care about their student-athletes. You'll be much happier with them.
Haha rightttt. Show me where I said I don't care about student athletes and let me know when you do. I simply stated a fact, countless athletes lose scholarships or are cut for many reasons. Plus you're in a conference where it is widely done. These reasons would lead a coach to over-sign. Not saying its right, and sure I feel bad for the kid who gets left out, but it happens. And worse yet, it may even be happening here or may happen at some point (which is why i referenced the practice violations).
And as far as not understanding M football (or other Michigan sports), I've watched the team my whole life, scarped pennies through college to watch them play, followed them around the country, and haven't doubted my loyalty to the team even in the darkest of days. I could go on but I know I'm preaching to the choir, I mean look at some of these posts counts ;) ..Michigan football is about winning, and doing it with pride and class. All three things I believe can be done with Miles (assuming he drops the oversigning antics), however if he's not hired I hope the next man can get it done. Now let's make it happen DB.
Thank you, nice try, and come back soon.
If a kid is screwed over, oh well, that's how they do it in the SEC. And you may have been watching Michigan, but you weren't listening. Bo wouldn't have allowed it, neither would have Lloyd. Just because you don't know if Michigan did stuff like that or not doesn't mean it happened, it just means you're ignorant to how the program was run. Yeah, I get it. You want to brag to all your buddies that the team you follow is winning. But you don't care about the program beyond that, but those that care about the program knows it means more than that. So it just seems you'd be happier with one of those SEC teams that are one that screws over "thousands" of student athletes, because that's how they roll, but win all the time. You'll be happier, and Michigan fans won't have people happy to corrupt their program for a few more wins. Bye.
You're responses are riddled with holes and cheap insults, all of which I have already adressed (on multiple posts). At this point your responses are like a broken record, stating the same old lines over and over despite already being addressed.
Yes I care about wins, after all who would want to win two games a year?? And equally as much, I care about integrity.
Living in Ohio I've been enjoying the whole tattoo-gate but the response is the same "at least we win". Sure that's a shitty attitude, and a blackeye on tOSU. So in a sense, they've got 1 of the 2 things right. But how nice would it be for Buckeye fans to have nothing to say because Les/Hoke/whoever is killing them AND doing it with class?? Thats what I want to see, not winning without class, not losing but being classy, winning and doing it with class.
And please, I have stated over and over I love this program and University, but that doesn't mean I don't have the right to CONSTRUCTIVELY criticize it or as you say, go cheer on an SEC team. I don't want to see kids get cut. I do want to see this team (and other programs) win, but win in a manner which Llyod or Bo would approve as you said. If you plan on responding with the same old song and dance you've been saying to me all night, don't waste your time, I've addressed it enough.
People defending Miles keep saying that everyone does it. Not true. They screw their players over in the spring or summer, when there's time to react. Screwing someone over after they move into the dorm, so they're really hosed...Miles owns that trick. That's probably why the video is about him and not someone else.
...and not being willing to man-up and speak with his players about it is a classy touch.
Come on. Miles coaches in the SEC, the most competitive conference in the country and he wins. That conference permitted oversigning. Want to compete with Tressel? Want to beat Dantonio? Really? You sure?
As much as I think Brandon is screwing the pooch from a timing standpoint, he clearly understands that being the head football coach at Michigan is MORE than just about wins, or beating OSU. Sorry to break that to you.
You sound like you'd be much happier being an SEC fan. Go for it!
You sound like the sketchy guy trying to sell steroids to athletes in a bad sports movie.
I would take Hoke over Les Miles in a heartbeat. Yes, Les has a national championship. So what? It was with a two-loss LSU team (how often does that happen?) that could have easily been a four-loss LSU team thanks in part to his enigmatic play calling and clock management. Furthermore, Michigan is already on probation. Do we really want to bring in someone who brought the NCAA to come knocking on LSU's door? No thanks.
By all accounts, Brady Hoke seems to have a genuine love for Michigan, and as patchwork as his resume has been, it's hard to argue with at least the recent success he's had. I can't imagine there would be any upheaval within the department with his hire. It just seems so milquetoast and doesn't give me any faith that he will reenergize the program.
OK. Hoke - basically three or four winning seasons in the MAC and . . . what is the conference that SDSU is in? Miles - numerous winning seasons - even 10 plus win seasons - in the SEC. A national championship. Really? Do you want to cheer as Michigan beats OSU? Do you want the thrill of crushing MSU every year?
I would love to cheer as Michigan beats OSU. I would love the thrill of crushing MSU every year. But not at the expense of the integrity of our program, and especially not now. We're already on probation to begin with, and even someone who looks solely at past accomplishments as an indicator of future success should be concerned with hiring someone with a track record of skirting NCAA rules for an advantage on the field.
Let me get this straight, what you value in a candidate for head coach of the nations winningest football program is:
"genuine love for Michigan",
"no department upheaval" and
"patchwork resume....recent success"
When we have a good shot at:
Proven BCS-level coach
Multiple 10-win seasons
UofM Alumus (bonus)
By the way, the quickest way to get upheaval, of the fan base and alumni is another losing record. Something that is nearly certain with Hoke.
Hoke is not the guy I want, but I would take him over Les Miles, because he would be a far better ambassador for my alma mater.
It's amazing to me that there are people who don't give a shit that Les Miles has pulled scholarships from student athlettes with little notice. Even if you don't care about destroying a student-athlete's college career for the sake of competitive advantage, you should care that the NCAA has a close eye on LSU for some of their recent recruiting practices, because we're already on probation. And even if you don't care about that, he would never be able to get away with such practices in the Big Ten, which lessens the likelihood of having the same level of success here -- he won't have an enormous talent advantage to mask his frankly enigmatic playcalling.
For the record, department upheaval is what doomed Rich Rod from the start, so I think yes, it's worth taking into account. It's well-documented that Les Miles had clashed with parts of the Lloyd contingency, and yes, while Lloyd is gone, I wouldn't be so sure that the distrust of Les is.
Do you think Hoke can outdo Tressel?
With all of the class in the world, getting your ass kicked every year by those mouthbreathers is not being a good ambassador of the university.
Again, Hoke is not the coach I want, but I would take him over Les Miles, if only for what Miles has done at LSU. The integrity of the program that represents my alma mater is far, far more important to me than winning. If that makes me a loser, so be it.
Do I think Hoke can beat Tressel. Maybe. Maybe not. I don't know. I'm not sure Les Miles could either though, FWIW. Not with a level playing field, anyway.
Preach on Sommy. I'd never take winning a Nat'l championship ever again if it meant one student-athlete was lied to and cheated by one of our coaches. That is not a Michigan Man. A Michigan Man is not someone from Michigan. A Michigan Man is someone of the utmost moral and ethical standing. He is someone who does the University proud.
I'm proud to be a Michigan Man - I would be ashamed if the high moral standards of our University were forsaken for a couple wins.
It's amazing to me that there are people who don't give a shit that Les Miles has pulled scholarships from student athlettes with little notice.
This is a common and accepted practice in the SEC. It's not acceptable in the Big Ten and I believe that DB would make that well known to Miles and that the price he'd pay would be termination. I don't see this as something that Les can't or wouldn't correct in exchange for coaching at his alma mater.
which lessens the likelihood of having the same level of success here, he won't have an enormous talent advantage to mask his frankly enigmatic playcalling
Michigan can and will always recruit talented student athletes. OSU and Wisconsin have been the top teams in the big ten and they don't over recruit or use greyshirts.
If there are people that are still holding grudges towards events that occurred in the past, then those people need to come to terms with things and move along. We should all be more worried about the damage THOSE FOLKS are doing to the program than speculating about what-ifs regarding a qualified coaching candidate. Those folks bare a large portion of the blame for RR's struggles off the field and ultimate demise. it would be a major bummer if this coaching search gets sabotaged by people holding grudges.
Edit: BTW, LSU just scored again 35-17.
hire Tony Dungy. A phone call from this guy would get 9 out of ten recruits and 10 out of 10 assistants on the spot. A Big Ten player and big time coach with the experience and contacts that could get Michigan Fans excited.
Wont happen hes done coaching.
With how much of a debacle this has become, and the seeming lack of quality candidates, I increasingly could be talked into Les Miles.
Just another opinion on the internets, but it oddly left me feeling better should we end up with Hoke. A high-character guy who has worked hard and wants more than anything else to be here should count for something I suppose.
Edit: Link was posted earlier so feel free to ignore or if need be, neg.
All I needed to read was this:
Jim Harbaugh’s 12-1 can’t touch Brady Hoke’s 12-1.
to realize that Whitlock's opinion is one based on a friendship and not sound football knowledge. Going 12-1 against PAC-10 teams with the academic requirements of Stanford far outweighs Ball States 12-1 against powerhouses like Eastern Michigan, Toledo and Miami (NTM). Ball State is hardly the "Harvard of Central Indiana" either.
Maybe when Hoke wins a few more games and has a winning percentage over .500 I will look at him a little more seriously. But if he is all we can get as a coach, we've got bigger issues.
Integrity went out the window about 5 OSU victories ago. Its now time to win and do whatever it takes to do so.
Please, go be a fan of an SEC team.
I cannot wait until the point system is back online so I can burn each and last one of mine on these ignorant comments about how Michigan should "win at all costs."
tell me, when did you lose your integrity? or did you never have any?
In segments like this, we're getting only one side of the story.
Remember how pissed off we all were at the Freep? Same sh*t, different shovel.
People: we need to get off our high horse and realize we don't have a lot of options. Miles represents, in all probability, around 5-7 years of consistent success in the Big 10, and maybe even beyond it. He's not the best option, long-term, as he's too old to be our Tressel, Stoops or even Lloyd Carr. But he could get us back on our feet, and could set up a CIW, the way Bo did with Moeller and Carr.
Let's be frank: this is, by far, one of our best and most realistic options at this point.
Since everyone is hung up on the scholarship issue,
"Les Miles has become renowned for his charity work during Hurricane Katrina as well as work with the Special Olympics and various children’s charities." From: http://www.onlinetickets.com/info/sports_ncaa/lsu_tigers/les_miles_bio.html
I've also heard he visited troops in Iraq but haven't put in the effort to find a source other than what someone posted on LSU's version of mgoblog.
He can do as much charity work as he wants, that's certainly great for him and the causes, but as long as he continuously fucks kids over, I'm not okay with him being hired.
Fair enough, I was just throwing it out there to save him some face, after all he is Michigan Man (for those who believe in the term).
Defending Miles's slimy practices didn't go to Michigan...
If Mary Sue Coleman and David Brandon are okay with him, why shouldn't we be? Who would have higher standards than the university president and AD - people who are responsible for the guy if he Fs up?
Station in LA is breaking Miles to UM, Bo P. to LSU.
Hm, seems like this is becoming more and more of a done deal. Gon' be interusting tomarru
In his Cotton Bowl post-game press conference, he said he had no contact with Michigan.
Lots of tweets saying Les Miles told his players he will be back at LSU next year.
There's a difference between Miles contact, and agent contact.
in the SEC.
According to the video the average SEC team has 103 players signed and Miles was 9 over the 85. If my math is right then that would mean he signed 94, well below average.
Also, PAC 10 on average signs 90. Any indication of where Harbaugh fit in? Is he above or below average?
Even though the point is moot, and I'd rather forget about Harbaugh (makes me sad), he was below. Average of 20.2 in the five recruiting classes he was apart of (hired in December 2006, counted the 2007 class up until the 2011 class which might not be quite full but is close with 21 recruits).
Makes me even sadder to think he'd is just a jerk and not an immoral jerk...
Take it FWIW but from what I've read he isn't going to Michigan
LSU quarterback Jordan Jefferson said Les Miles has told his team he's not going to take the head coaching job at Michigan after LSU's 41-24 AT&T Cotton Bowl victory against Texas A&M.
"He said, 'They have rumors going around about (me) going to Michigan, but it's not true,'" Jefferson said. "'It's nonsense.' He said hasn't spoken to anybody, anything about Michigan. We're going to stick with that and get ready for next year."
"I'm not worried. Les Miles loves this team. He loves all the work that we do for him. He loves working with us. I feel he's not going anywhere. I'm positive he's not going anywhere."
I'd be more concerned about his clock management skills Lol