The Importance of Gary Moeller

Submitted by RuebenRileyonRye on
I was watching the B1G Network last night, enjoying the recap of the '97 season, and I started wondering about Lloyd Carr and his legacy. Would the '97 season have happened like it did if Moeller wouldn't have gotten as drunk as he did that fateful night. I don't want to take anything away from that team or Carr because they did it all. I just wonder what other fans think or remember. I think we forget that most of the players on that team were Moeller's. Moeller was the main recruiter for Desmond. He recruited Woodson as well. That's two major pieces of Michigan Football history. I'm not doubting Carr, but I just wonder what Moeller could have accomplished and how legendary he is for the program. Thoughts?

TheFugitive

July 22nd, 2015 at 6:17 PM ^

Wondering "What If" about a team that went undefeated and was National Champions for the first time in 50 years is odd.  For as great of a coach that Bo was, he didn't accomplish what Lloyd did in terms of winning it all and there's no guarantee that Moeller would have either.  We may not have become so predictable offensively but that's about all I have for you.  

If I remember right, they players were pissed about going 8-4 a bunch of times and we cought lightning in a bottle by having the best player in football that season.  I don't know what else you could ask for, really.  

TheFugitive

July 22nd, 2015 at 6:38 PM ^

The most games Gary ever won in his 5 seasons was 10.  That includes two 8-4 seasons.  He did win the Big 10 outright twice, tied for 1st once.

LLoyd won 10 games six times in 13 seasons, and fans were getting upset about it! He won the Big 10 outright twice as well, tied for 1st three times.  

 

lilpenny1316

July 22nd, 2015 at 7:05 PM ^

That one less game makes a difference.  Lloyd was able to win his 10th game in the 13th game twice.  Plus we didn't play a lot of cupcakes during the non-conference season under Moeller.  Carr benefitted by having an extra non-conference game, because that was usually a win against the MAC or MAC-level team.  Moeller's version of a cupcake was Oklahoma State or Boston College.  

Plus, Moeller went 3-1-1 against OSU.  He probably goes 4-1 if Grbac doesn't get hurt in 1992.  That still earns you some mercy from the fans.  

 

Esterhaus

July 22nd, 2015 at 8:07 PM ^

 
It really was a different game back then. There was less finesse, and more bustle and hustle. Prima donnas didn't last long at most top schools. 
 
And then the game, constitution of the players and gameday experience began changing around the millennium under Lloyd's watch. I honestly believe that Lloyd didn't know how to adapt. A good man anyway, as was Moe, who I tend to think would have adapted to change better than Lloyd did. Supposition, that's all I can manage until Utah.

lilpenny1316

July 22nd, 2015 at 11:36 PM ^

Those games between 1985 and 1990 were tight games.  It says something if Bruce is such a terrible recruiter yet stayed competitive against us, including the 1987 win in the Big House. By 1991, most of that team were Cooper recruits.  By 1993, the whole team, including the 5th year seniors were his guys.  

That was a period of beatdowns given to the Buckeyes that deserve to be respected considering how that is usually not an easy game to win.

saveferris

July 23rd, 2015 at 7:28 AM ^

Plus, Moeller went 3-1-1 against OSU. He probably goes 4-1 if Grbac doesn't get hurt in 1992. That still earns you some mercy from the fans.

I think you overestimate the importance of The Game back in those days. OSU had slipped so far during the start of Cooper's tenure, that the game had lost a lot of it's luster (kind of like the present). During the Moeller years, you didn't obsess over beating the Buckeyes, you just expected to because they clearly weren't very good. The team we would obsess over beating was Notre Dame because Lou Holtz had a maddening knack for pulling BS wins out of thin air against us.

The air around Michigan back in the early 90's was a great Big 10 team that couldn't match the athleticism of premier national programs; an impression we would frequently validate by laying eggs against the likes of Florida State and Washington in the Rose Bowl. Then of course, there was a real sense of the football program slipping with back-to-back 8-4 seasons. That's what made it easy for the Michigan AD to let Moeller go despite his good record against OSU.

aiglick

July 23rd, 2015 at 4:21 PM ^

"Notre Dame because Lou Holtz had a maddening knack for pulling BS wins out of thin ait against us."

Welp we must have entered some kind of alternate universe since that basically described the last seven years or so of Michigan football.

Let's hope we reverse course somewhat.

In response to the general thread, Moeller won like over 80% of his games according to my coworker who was a Daily report in his time at Michigan. That's got to count for something.

snarling wolverine

July 23rd, 2015 at 5:36 PM ^

 Here's Mo's record.  His win percentage here was .758.  Mo's first three years were very good, but then he had back to back 8-4 seasons with teams that were very talented.  

And yes, ND's wins over us were incredibly maddening.  They beat us in 1988 (with a team that went on to win the national title) without scoring an offensive TD, as they kicked four field goals while we missed one in the final seconds.  

Then in 1989 they returned two kickoffs for TDs (why kick it to him, Bo?) and won by five.  

Then in 1990 we led by 10 going into the fourth quarter and gave up two TDs to lose.  One was on a pass that was tipped by a Michigan defender and caught in the endzone IIRC.

Needless to say, it was quite satisfying to finally drive a stake through them in 1991 on Desmond's catch.

Rafi

July 22nd, 2015 at 10:00 PM ^

It is well known among those in my circle that Gary was, in fact, so drunk at that restaurant because he just found out about Les having an affair with his wife.

There was no sticking around after that.

saveferris

July 23rd, 2015 at 8:35 AM ^

I'm wth the Hatter here that unless you're willing to share more details regarding the individuals who make up "your circle", then all you're doing is retreading wild, unsubstantiated internet rumors that have floated around for years.

The Mad Hatter

July 23rd, 2015 at 9:42 AM ^

I don't doubt that there was some sort of beef between Les and Mo/Lloyd, as it has been reported that Les was told to find another job when Lloyd took over.

But I've been hearing the Les fucked Mo's wife BS for years and I have no idea where it originated.  If you're going to impugn a man's character, have the balls to own it.  Name names, provide some shred of evidence.

salami

July 22nd, 2015 at 6:33 PM ^

With a winning record at the Lions in the last five decades.

 

EDIT: OK, I fact checked myself, not including Jim Caldwell, who is on the plus side...and techically, its four decades.

LSAClassOf2000

July 22nd, 2015 at 6:57 PM ^

I've had similar thoughts - I mean, he was 44-13-3 at Michigan and it seemed to me like that trend probably would have continued, even improved, if he had not been fired. It's all speculation at this point, but with Moeller, it's an interesting exercise or at least I find to be so. Oh, the things we will never know.