The Importance of Gary Moeller
Wondering "What If" about a team that went undefeated and was National Champions for the first time in 50 years is odd. For as great of a coach that Bo was, he didn't accomplish what Lloyd did in terms of winning it all and there's no guarantee that Moeller would have either. We may not have become so predictable offensively but that's about all I have for you.
If I remember right, they players were pissed about going 8-4 a bunch of times and we cought lightning in a bottle by having the best player in football that season. I don't know what else you could ask for, really.
The most games Gary ever won in his 5 seasons was 10. That includes two 8-4 seasons. He did win the Big 10 outright twice, tied for 1st once.
LLoyd won 10 games six times in 13 seasons, and fans were getting upset about it! He won the Big 10 outright twice as well, tied for 1st three times.
That one less game makes a difference. Lloyd was able to win his 10th game in the 13th game twice. Plus we didn't play a lot of cupcakes during the non-conference season under Moeller. Carr benefitted by having an extra non-conference game, because that was usually a win against the MAC or MAC-level team. Moeller's version of a cupcake was Oklahoma State or Boston College.
Plus, Moeller went 3-1-1 against OSU. He probably goes 4-1 if Grbac doesn't get hurt in 1992. That still earns you some mercy from the fans.
Yeah, it's like the same argument MSU fans make about winning more games a year now than Michigan ever did. 10 games is equivalent to 12 wins in today's college football.
Don't expose the strawman nature of the narratives coming out of East Lansing. I mean, haven't you heard; Mark Dantonio is twice the coach that Fielding Yost was since Yost only averaged a little over 6 wins a season in his time at Michigan.
Both of them had no trouble beating John Cooper so I'm not sure if that really counts for Mo. Lloyd's Ohio State issues began and ended with Tressel.
Boy did they ever. In three years the football world passed Lloyd bye.
Moeller had a winning record against OSU. And Moeller didn't just win a couple of those games, they crushed OSU. Tressel is not that good to erase a 28-point difference in 1991 or 1993.
more hypothecials!!
But that's not an entirely fair comparison. Earle Bruce was a terrible recruter and left Cooper with a lousy roster, which he needed a few years to upgrade. The 1988-91 OSU teams were far less talented than the ones after that, and not suprisingly we dominated them.
Those games between 1985 and 1990 were tight games. It says something if Bruce is such a terrible recruiter yet stayed competitive against us, including the 1987 win in the Big House. By 1991, most of that team were Cooper recruits. By 1993, the whole team, including the 5th year seniors were his guys.
That was a period of beatdowns given to the Buckeyes that deserve to be respected considering how that is usually not an easy game to win.
Bruce was the opposite of Cooper: a poor recruiter but a good coach. He got good results out of so-so rosters.
Plus, Moeller went 3-1-1 against OSU. He probably goes 4-1 if Grbac doesn't get hurt in 1992. That still earns you some mercy from the fans.
I think you overestimate the importance of The Game back in those days. OSU had slipped so far during the start of Cooper's tenure, that the game had lost a lot of it's luster (kind of like the present). During the Moeller years, you didn't obsess over beating the Buckeyes, you just expected to because they clearly weren't very good. The team we would obsess over beating was Notre Dame because Lou Holtz had a maddening knack for pulling BS wins out of thin air against us.
The air around Michigan back in the early 90's was a great Big 10 team that couldn't match the athleticism of premier national programs; an impression we would frequently validate by laying eggs against the likes of Florida State and Washington in the Rose Bowl. Then of course, there was a real sense of the football program slipping with back-to-back 8-4 seasons. That's what made it easy for the Michigan AD to let Moeller go despite his good record against OSU.
"Notre Dame because Lou Holtz had a maddening knack for pulling BS wins out of thin ait against us."
Welp we must have entered some kind of alternate universe since that basically described the last seven years or so of Michigan football.
Let's hope we reverse course somewhat.
In response to the general thread, Moeller won like over 80% of his games according to my coworker who was a Daily report in his time at Michigan. That's got to count for something.
Here's Mo's record. His win percentage here was .758. Mo's first three years were very good, but then he had back to back 8-4 seasons with teams that were very talented.
And yes, ND's wins over us were incredibly maddening. They beat us in 1988 (with a team that went on to win the national title) without scoring an offensive TD, as they kicked four field goals while we missed one in the final seconds.
Then in 1989 they returned two kickoffs for TDs (why kick it to him, Bo?) and won by five.
Then in 1990 we led by 10 going into the fourth quarter and gave up two TDs to lose. One was on a pass that was tipped by a Michigan defender and caught in the endzone IIRC.
Needless to say, it was quite satisfying to finally drive a stake through them in 1991 on Desmond's catch.
Would have been the premier program in the country had he stayed. Would probably still be coaching and have won at least four national championships, and never lost to MSU.
not have been fired. Do you think Saban or Meyer would be fired? Also, Bear was a well known boozer and I'm sure many others. It was the cops who recorded the arrest and release to the public that did him in.
It is well known among those in my circle that Gary was, in fact, so drunk at that restaurant because he just found out about Les having an affair with his wife.
There was no sticking around after that.
You can't prove any of that.
I'm wth the Hatter here that unless you're willing to share more details regarding the individuals who make up "your circle", then all you're doing is retreading wild, unsubstantiated internet rumors that have floated around for years.
I don't doubt that there was some sort of beef between Les and Mo/Lloyd, as it has been reported that Les was told to find another job when Lloyd took over.
But I've been hearing the Les fucked Mo's wife BS for years and I have no idea where it originated. If you're going to impugn a man's character, have the balls to own it. Name names, provide some shred of evidence.
I mean yeah I guess but seems totally irrelevant right now. But sure
With a winning record at the Lions in the last five decades.
EDIT: OK, I fact checked myself, not including Jim Caldwell, who is on the plus side...and techically, its four decades.
slappyillydoodaa!!!!!
OK MeanJoe, admit it, you have been hanging around with Minick again.
/too soon?
too late
I've always believed that if Moeller lasted, there was enough evidence to suggest he could've been very successful.
I've had similar thoughts - I mean, he was 44-13-3 at Michigan and it seemed to me like that trend probably would have continued, even improved, if he had not been fired. It's all speculation at this point, but with Moeller, it's an interesting exercise or at least I find to be so. Oh, the things we will never know.
What if I didn't fall out of that tree?!
What if this is all someone's elaborate dream?!
So....... Can I unbuckle now?
What if I never unbuckled?!
might be your only answer. try it, see if it helps. report back.
What if the only way to see is to go blind!?
What if at first you don't try so you succeed succeed and succeed again.
What if at first you don't try so you succeed succeed and succeed again.
What if at first you don't try so you succeed succeed and succeed again.
Hey buddy, you're gonna be alright
What if I'm not gonna be okay?
What if I'm not gonna be okay?
What if two wrongs DO make a right?
You're funny sometimes, but the shtick is getting a bit old.
You're right. this schtick needs to end. I'm done pretending. Everyone. The truth is, I'm not really mean. There I said it. Happy now? Can we move on now? what if we moved on now?
If "if" was a fifth, we'd all be drunk! Lol
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