I had been "out" the past few days and come back to Hoke&company still pulling in top notch kids. I live in southern Ohio and was out at a bar last night and a buckeye fan I know told me that he believes OSU will win 7-8 more Big 10 titles over the next 10 years and Michigan MAY won 1 lol!! I did have one OSU fan tell me he is very impressed with what Hoke has been doing and believes OSU is getting what they deserve right now. He even went on to say that he admires Michigan stand to try and do things the right way and not fall into the trap OSU did by hiring a known shady coach in Tressel. Anyways thought I'd share the fact that there is ONE buckeye fan that isnt a total tool.
If Hoke and company coach as well as they recruit,may God have mercy on the B10.
They have been recruiting their pants off; however, lets not lose sight of how tOSU recruits. Even with all these problems, tOSU will still get a top 20 class just from being in tOSU. For us to out recruit them, we need to get a 5 star or two a year.
offered by tOSU. Can I get a witness on that?...it's hard enough to track our own offers.
Try James "Biggs" Ross.
I agree that being an elite program calls for a 5* or two per year. But Brady is laying a nice foundation with his slew of 4*'s who fit the program. Good times ahead.
Since we are telling cool stories, I was at Buffalo Wild Wings yesterday and sat by Ron Thompson. He was in a Michigan football t shirt and sweats..
I like sharing cool stories..
Emma Watson is transferring from Brown to another "top American University"... My fingers are crossed for Michigan..
But your story is actually pretty cool
Please tell me you're a student and not a 45-60 year old man.
Not a student. 25 year old man. I don't understand what that has to do with it.
I think he was directing that comment at Waggles, implying that he is a dirty old man for (presumably, because he didn't actually say anything to this effect) finding a college-aged woman attractive.
Just finished my freshman year, don't worry!
Make me proud!
I heard NYU :(
As an undergrad Emma's age, involved in theatre and other such things on campus, I am still holding out hope.....
I saw "wings" and "Ron" and immedaitely assumed "Swanson" rather than "Thompson." Thompson makes a lot more sense, but for a minute there I thought Ron Swanson was in AA eating wings.
I also like cool stories, and so I will tell how I met Mark Huyge's dad at a brewery in Grand Rapids yesterday afternoon.
Classy guy. He saw my M shirt, and pointed to my 10 week old son (yes, I had a 10 week old in a brewery - this is how we roll in GR) and asked if my son was going to be a Wolverine. We then talked about the football team in great detail. Only after several minutes like this did he tell me he was Huyge's dad.
....and we know what the cheer is that other schools use against Brown.......
No Mercy. Only Pain.
Well that is a pretty big "if" there. I sure hope so, but as Clemson has shown, sometimes teams can do a whole lot of nothing with a lot of talent.
See also: LSU. They win with their talent, despite their coaching.
Hoke should have been hired 5 years ago
While it is (almost unanimously now) clear that RR was not the right hire, who is to say that Hoke would have done this well 5 years ago. 5 Years of additional experience could have made all the difference in preparing him for where he is now. Just my 2 cents and something to think about.
I think if Carr had retired after the 2005 season, RR could have been a great hire.
With the way things shook out, Hoke would have been a better hire to get us through the 2008 season transition.
RR was a great hire. It didn't work out well, but it was a great hire. All they needed was for Carr to do for RR what Bump Elliott did for Bo: tell anyone who complained that he didn't want to hear it and that they needed to worry about what they could do to become better Wolverines. Then, they needed David Brandon to follow Bo's mentorship and make sure everyone who complained that RR was going to get his full five years because Bo taught him to do it that way.
Instead, Carr followed his own agenda, sabotaged the program, and got rewarded for it three years later. Brandon ignored Bo's mentorship and went with Carr's agenda. The only things wrong with the RR hire were Carr, David Brandon, and, of course, GERG.
Hoke would have been the wrong hire then. Michigan needed to go outside of their "family reed" for a coach. I just hope that Hoke has been outside of the program enough to not be Lloyd Carr v2; if he is, it will be a disaster in this era. Luckily, Greg Mattison has been to other schools and the NFL, while Borges is an outsider. Hopefully, this is enough for Michigan's coaching staff to not resemble the banjo-playing kid in Deliverance.
Part of what was wrong with the RR hire was the fact he was an offense only had coach only slightly willing to adjust his system to the players he had and was fixated on a defensive system for which he was unable to hire a decent coordinator and couldn't coach himself.
let's not absolve him of the things which he caused.
dont get me started on this again.
"Instead, Carr followed his own agenda, sabotaged the program, and got rewarded for it three years later. Brandon ignored Bo's mentorship and went with Carr's agenda """
What a fucking pile of babbling bullshit. You don't know what the fuck went on during the transistion from Coach Rod to Coach Carr because if you did, you wouldn't post such nonsense.
Things he didn't believe. Yes, he believed coaches rebuilding a program should get "5 years". He also believed, even after all he had accomplished, all it would take for him to be run out of town was losing to OSU 3 years in a row (I'm sure he never even contemplated losing to MSU 3 years in a row along with it). He knew Michigan wasn't a normal position, and the pressures that went with it.
You can't be serious. What a completely idiotic proposition.
"Five years ago," (give or take), Brady Hoke was in the midst of this run at Ball State University.
|2004||Ball State||2–9||2–6||6th (West)|
|2005||Ball State||4–7||4–4||5th (West)|
|2006||Ball State||5–7||5–3||T–3rd (West)|
And "five years ago," Rich Rodriguez was establishing WVU as a national power team to be reckoned with, and he was being (rightly) courted by the likes of Alabama and Michigan.
This truly is the silly season for college football, isn't it? Where anybody can say just about anything...
That fact is, we'll probably not be able to pull in a recruting class, this year, that is better than the one in Columbus. And Columbus has out-recruited us for many years. Not that that is Hoke's fault, nor was it Rodriguez's fault. NCAA investigations, even phony and trumped-up investigations, can hurt recruting, as can coaching changes. And I'm not sure if Michigan has ever been a dominant recruiting power that crushed Notre Dame or OSU every year. I don't think that's ever been the case.
We'll get some good recruits this year, which might be a much better year for State of Michigan high school football production than either of the last two. There's no need to debate the details; the fact is that this year is very much in doubt as to how Michigan might eventually perform. I don't see any particular reason to predict anything vastly different from last year -- we may see a better defense, with older and healthier players. And we may see an offense that lacks the amazing sparkle and ingenuity of the Rodriguez spread.
But the Hoke-love is really reaching some new levels of hysteria.
Let it go...
I'm not "All In," okay? I won't gladly suffer fools who say we should have hired Brady Hoke five years ago. See, I didn't start today's fight. I'm only responding.
Michigan fans who want their fellow Wolverines to forget about Rich Rodriguez have a responsibility, first and foremost, to quit badmouthing Rich Rodriguez. That's how it works. That's how it is going to be.
That's all you need to remember.
that is all that needs to be said
RR has almost become a political topic. There are still those like you that see fit to defend him at every turn even at the expense of the new coach. And there are those that refuse to see any of the positives that he brought with him. I really don't see a problem with "badmouthing" as long as it is a reflection of the truth (which it often is) and is relevant to the topic at hand.
I do agree though, the whole hiring Hoke 5 years ago post was absurd.
It would be very, very rare for me to "defend [Coach Rodriguez] even at the expense of the new coach." There's ordinarily no need to invoke Brady Hoke at all, to defend Rich Rodriguez.
Only in the event of a silly theory like "We should have hired Hoke five years ago," would the two men be invoked together at all.
And then again, the one person upon whom I would count on, today, to say that any bad-mouthing of Rich Rodriguez has got to stop, like, yesterday if not sooner, is... Head Coach Brady Hoke.
with Tater that RR was free of all guilt in the mismanagement of the defense?
I thought that it was disastrous in '09 and '10; and that in '08, it was hard to tell because everything was a kind of a clusterfuck. (Actually, I remember saying in most of the '08 games, "Thank God for our defense.)
You seem to want to focus on "guilt" for "mismanagement." If you want to tell me that Head Coach Rich Rodriguez is "responsible" for a shitty defense, I'd say that you are right. He's the head guy. If you want to argue that the shitty defenses of the last two years were Rodrigeuz's "fault," I'd say you're wrong. He didn't coach the defenses.
I try not to get in the business of agreeing or disagreeing with anybody. I speak for myself alone. All that I have contended is that Rich Rodriguez knew quite well what he wanted to do with our defense; he wanted Jeff Casteel here, to run the same kind of 3-3-5 that looked so great on the field for WVU the last two years. I think Michigan could have and should have made that happen for Coach Rodriguez. If we had doubled Jeff Casteel's WVU salary, it would be less than what we are now paying Mattison.
And, because these days you have to qualify everything, I am not knocking Greg Mattison. I agree with David Brandon that Michigan had failed, basically, in attracting top assistants with competitive slaries, for a very long time.
Casteel wouldn't come is because of money, and not for any other reason. Maybe he just doesn't like Rich. Who knows? But if you want to blame Martin, who you've praised so much, go ahead. But I have to think it makes no logical sense that if Brandon thought the only problem was DC, and he was willing to pay Mattison, he wouldn't pay Casteel if he thought that would fix everything.
And most people are blamed for what they are responsible for.
Originally. So much for the "They didn't really like each other" theory.
And, we know that Casteel said "No" to Michigan only after it was made clear to him that he'd be more than welcome to stay in Morgantown, in a new Bill Stewart administration. And that what Casteel said was that all things considered, he'd just decided with his wife to stay in Morgantown with his two little girls in school there.
All of that makes perfect sense, if Casteel is making something like $375k a year in Morgantown, and he's being offered $395k a year at Michigan.
At that point (or after the year with Schafer), it becomes incumbent on Michigan to make the offer 500k, or 600k or 700k.
And then, Jeff Casteel might think differently about what's best for his family.
Casteel said "yes" to coming to Michigan in Dec. 2007? Are you sure about this? I seem to recall him turining us down off the bat, not him drawing it out any.
Regardless, RR offered him the job multiple times - in 2007, again after the 2008 season, and possibly again last December. Casteel never bit. At some point, you've got to conclude that Casteel really didn't want to come. Your interpretation - that he was ours if we'd only up the offer by another $100K or whatever, and we refused - is pretty hard to believe given how gigantic our AD's budget is. We recently committed $226 million to renovate the football stadium. I don't think we'd nickel-and-dime on coaching expenses. (Not for football, anyway.)
It is absolutely untrue, I know, that Casteel immediately turned Rodriguez down, and that in and of itself speaks volumes. This is a story that is difficult to document with handy web links, because we're talking about December of 2007. But what happened was that when Rodriguez came to Ann Arbor in December, he announced right away that a few of his coaches (offense guys, as I recall) like Magee and Gibson were joining him. They were automatic.
And at the same time, either the Athletic Department or Rodriguez (I forget which) announced that contract offers were being made to Bruce Tall and to Casteel. And you really can't, or at least you don't, do that (announce offers) unless the people involved have agreed to be "offered." I can't recall right now if there was any requirement that we needed to get permission to make the offers.
In any event, that was the strange period of time in which WVU hadn't yet announced Bill Stewart was staying and taking over. And in the end, Bruce Tall came, but Casteel didn't. And then, I seem to recall Casteel making a press statement of his own (which he had no need to do, if he was never leaving), announcing his love/loyalty/whatever for WVU, which is precisely the kind of thing you do after you've been negotiating to possibly leave. Anyway, that statement by Casteel came only after significant time. I'm not sure if there have been any clear-cut statements by Rodriguez and/or Casteel saying that Casteel "changed his mind." Those kinds of statements are almost nonexistent. I think it is pretty clear what happened. It is not even much of a mystery, or a dispute. Who knows, maybe somebody can search for the old evidence from this site.
Check it our for yourself. Casteel's 2007 salary. Shafer's 2008 salary. Robinson's 2009 salary. Casteel's new 2010-11 contract. And then the big kahuna, Greg Mattison's 2010 Ravens contract and his 2011 Michigan contract.
We were cheap. Mattison's contract broke the mold, by about 200-300%.
David Brandon, in his own blog and in his own words:
'SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT' is an item I will be including in my blog when there is an item that I hear is being discussed on the Internet or another media platform that needs some -- we'll call it clarification.
The first item is appropriate to bring up in this blog. Despite my remarks from day one that our compensation packages for football coaches at Michigan were not always as competitive as they could be, and there's a market out there and we need to pay for value and the marketplace dictates what those price tags are, I still hear there are some self-proclaimed experts who maintained we were not going to be competitive when it came to hiring our football coaching staff. Fact: we went after Greg Mattison and we convinced him to leave a highly successful NFL football franchise. An important part of making it happen involved us being prepared to pay for the talent and experience we needed. Fact: I understand the dynamics of the marketplace and we have and will pay for top talent to keep our programs successful.
Because you can't document any of it except for the storyline you've made up in your head. Should me evidence that Casteel said yes to the job, but then turned it down when West Virginia offered more money to show it was know fact, and not one of your conspiracy theories. Otherwise you're talking out of your ass.
...for someone who cares about what you think.
Talking out of their ass. You have nothing to back your claim up, so your only answer is "Whhaaaaaaa". You obviously care what I and a lot if people think, because you can't shut up about it. Someone who doesn't care what others think doesn't write encyclopedias about Rich Rod.
when Third and Long is released in the fall, shall we?
Everything you've claimed is utter bullshit, and you're HOPING the book proves you right? Got it. But even if it does, it's still been shown you have no evidence to back up your claims right now, just assumptions.
5 years ago, while certainly debatable, bad-mouthing Rich Rod? By your own reasoning on why Rich failed you make a BETTER case that it might be true. 1. Witch hunt by the media drawing sanctions hurting recruiting - wouldn't have happened with the anti-Rich bias. 2. Transition difficulties - wouldn't have been as bad going to a similar style, and to an ex-Lloyd assistant. And between 1 & 2 it wouldn't be as bad and we'd be in year 4, not transition 2.
If you're going to freak out at every turn, and only be "all-in" when it suits you, that's fine (though I guess we can count Rosenberg in that group since he was, then wasn't, and now is again), but don't make the case for the point you're arguing against.
...just don't hire anybody that one of the local sportswriters doesn't like...
...and don't do anything to shake up the prior regime...
...no need to go out and find the best and most innovative coach in the country...
Just that all your talking points were reasons arguing against your main point. If you want to say that Hoke hadn't experience his run of success yet, or Rich made a bigger splash, fine. Those arguments are all better than yours.
And the "best coach in the Country" isn't really thought of as that anymore because he failed miserably. It happens, successful people fail, and often succeed again later. But nationally he thought of by coaches as the "what the hell were they doing with that defense guy", and by the media as the Groban Guy. Not the Freep allegations guy or any of the other things you blame. The things under his control. Plenty of people have good defenses without being a mercenary and buying the best one out there. Mattison had to be promoted to DC here once. So there are other ways to do it. If you have any idea how to develop a good DC. Or don't scapegoat him when you muck with his defense the first year.
that make sense. Not that I agree with any of them. I'm just trying to make sense out of them. Match up verbs with subjects; that sort of thing.
Anytime he doesn't have anything but fantasy to back up his argument, turn to "I don't understand the post"...
I'll speak slowly, so you can understand - Give...evidence,....link,....print,....video,... ANYTHING...of these "facts"....you claim we all know....or admit you are wrong. (Or just shut the fuck up about your paranoid fantasies).
Why don't the two of you just get a room and have done with it? (I am talking to section 1 and M-Wolverine, in case this post shows up somewhere it shouldn't).
In all seriousness, I am way over the RR topic and am fine with the fact that he is gone (in other words share some of your ideas), but you sound as ridiculous as section one in this whole conversation. He may be a conspiracy theorist, but you sound like a petulant child just trying to get the last word and make the other person look bad.
This isn't the first time I have noticed you have long, drawn out arguements with posters either. In this case, at least section one is sticking to the arguement and not throwing personal attacks like you are. Just grow up already.
"Fact", because there are enough people who believe them on here that they become Internet Fact.
And I'm not sure on your assessment: I ask for links or evidence to said theories, and get "I don't care what you think" and "I can't understand what you're writing". If I'm making personal attacks, it's in kind and due to the refusal (or inability) to argue the point with evidence and not conjecture. All's it takes is some proof rather than "yelling" at people "FALSE. The FACTS are...". Facts have evidence. Theories are just that. And if you're going to present the latter as the former, and then refuse to back it up, then it is what is is.
But you can have the last word so I'm not being too petulant. Go for it.
Michigan was in the midst of this run
and the draw of Michigan to recruits was clearly on the downward spiral. But in regards to five years ago, I think you are right. Rodriguez was in a position to lure a Mattison type, but instead went for Shafer and then GERG's hair. In 2011, who knew that Hoke was in position to lure a Mattison type, and then, by god, reeled in Mattison himself.
You are completely, thoroughly, totally, perfectly wrong.
Rodriguez was in a position to lure a Mattison type, but instead went for Shafer and then GERG's hair.
No; Rodriguez was not "in a position to lure a Mattison type." The University of Michigan put Rodriguez in a position where he could not "lure a Mattison type." That was a problem; one which David Brandon realized too late.
Rich Rodriguez, because of who he was, was in a position to lure a Jeff Casteel type. But Michigan in those days would not offer Mattison-type money, to get Jeff Casteel.
In 2011, who knew that Hoke was in position to lure a Mattison type, and then, by god, reeled in Mattison himself.
LOL! "...Hoke reeled in Mattison himself." By himself, that is, and also almost a million dollars a year from our Athletic Department.
How many fucking times does this need to be said? Rich Rodriguez wanted Jeff Casteel, first and foremost. Rodriguez wanted Casteel before he settled on Schafer. Rodriguez again wanted Casteel before he had to settle for Robinson. Rodriguez, by all reasonable accounts of which I am aware, wanted Casteel as Michigan's DC for 2011. Michigan failed to make it happen. Whether it was a failure to offer a smple competitive salary, or the failure to offer a "wow" salary -- it was a mistake, and it was one that Brandon has more or less publicly acknowledged, and was determined to not repeat.
The People have spoken. The masses found my comment "insightful".
There are more assumptions in it than a Freep article. Don't become what you hate. If Casteel didn't come here, you don't know if it's Rich's, Michigan's, or Casteel's fault. And it seems hard to argue they decided not to pay assistants big bucks in December but changed their minds in January.
Jeff Casteel didn't and still doesn't deserve Mattison money. Mattison has a much longer track record as a DC and he has been a DC in the NFL.
"Sparkling" offenses are able to put up points against good teams. Sure, we won't score as many points against the doormats of the country. This will in part be because we won't have to. Either way, I will bet anything that if you give Borges a month to prepare for the middle of the pack SEC team with someone as versatile as Denard Robinson, we will do far better than that abysmal offensive performance in the Gator Bowl.
I won't hold you to your "bet anything" proposition. There will be lots of people, myself included, watching with enough interest even in the absence of any bets.
As for the team's performance in the Gator Bowl... I love Denard Robinson as much as anybody in this state does. But I think his play in that game was consistent with an ordinary sophomore playing in his first bowl game. When Rich Rodriguez said that his team would be "exponentially" better this year, I believed him. I think there was good reason to believe him. Whether anybody else did, I don't much care and none of it much matters now.
About something that doesn't even matter anymore....
It's been said on this site that the amount of in-state talent this year is pretty unprecedented. It's wonderful that Hoke hasn't had to look outside of the bi-state area yet (all have come from MI and OH), and beating MSU for recruits is a hell of a start (and SO satisfying). However, the real indication of our staff's recruiting skill will be when the Michigan talent pool dries up a bit and we have to compete head-to-head with OSU for recruits again and go national.
I have a good feeling.
What's the site address? I need some lulz.
I like your avatar. I saw Little Jimmy Norton live a few months ago. He is hysterical.
I saw him in Boston. I don't know what a pest is. Is that like his fan club? I am an Opie and Anthony fan from back in the day so that's how I came to know about Norton. I haven't been able to listen since they went off local radio here a couple years ago. I miss all those guys from that show.
Yeah I live in Boston. I gotta get to out to more comedy shows though. So far I've only seen Dave Chappele, Tracy Morgan, and Norton. Every time I go to one I end up thinking I've gotta do it more. I'll have to keep an eye on your blog to see who is on tour.
I have seen all the guys you just mentioned and I didn't think Tracey Morgan was all that funny. His talents seem to be more in sketch comedy.
Ugh, they're pathetic. They have a thread devoted to Stonum's situation, which I suppose is fine. The OP says "Can't wait to hear the Walverine excuses on this one", which is hilarious, because the majority are condemining Darryl and are of the opinion that this warrants his dismissal from the team.
More than sparty is concerned about our recruiting tOSU is as well... check this link out
A few years ago there was a movie called the Perfect Storm. The movie centered on the fate of the crew of the Andrea Gail. A combination of three weather events came together to create a storm that caused $208 million dollars in damage. There are three events coming together right now for Ohio State that could make Buckeye fans see $208 million in damage as getting off light.
Here are the three factors that are coming together to create the Perfect Storm for The Rivalry:
- Back in January I did a blog about the rivalry being back. That the hiring of a true Michigan man, and a fine coach, in Brady Hoke would reignite the greatest rivalry in American sport. As usual, Buckeye fans dismissed it. That happens alot when fans don't want to hear something.
- Tattoogate happened. It created a situation where recruiting is in an all-out stall. At the end of last week there was more fallout as news that the purchase of approximately fifty cars by Buckeye players was being investigated. I know this came up before with Thaddeus Gibson a couple of years ago. I think this will end up with JT being cleared of any wrongdoing but it is impacting the national perception and hurting recruiting as other staffs will keep hammering away with negative recruiting tactics that will be hard to counter. It will at least put the staff in a situation where Ohio State is facing an uphill battle. It is hard to state your case when you first have to defend yourself. It is tough to play offense while you are playing defense. Several recruits admitted to Bucknuts off the record last week that the dark cloud surrounding the program is impacting their recruitment. Running back Brionte Dunn was offered and committed early. He has now opened up his recruitment. When a player is offered and commits early that is a sign that things have changed. Early commits are the players who are true believers in a program.
- This is a class for the ages in the state of Ohio. The dirty little secret of The Rivalry is the fact that Michigan has been at its best when it has recruited Ohio well. That has not happened for some time. The Buckeyes have limited scholarships. There has never been a year when that has been a greater hindrance.
What this adds up to is Hoke is already having a major impact. I don't care if you reincarnate Vince Lombardi. You are not going to win without top players. Hoke is now getting the kinds of players who can make a difference in The Rivalry. Fans want to dismiss some Michigan verbals because the Buckeyes did not offer them. That is a mistake. In the past it has been true. This year it is not. We have talked about the great class and the lack of scholarships for 2012. That is the difference. Colerains Joe Bolden recently committed to Michigan. He is a player who I believe would be odds on to be a Buckeye offer if there was room. Lyndhurst Brush athlete Pharaoh Brown is the most recent to commit to Michigan. There is no doubt he is a Buckeye caliber athlete. I would have been fine with a Buckeye offer to tight end, but soon to be offensive tackle A.J. Williams from Sycamore. I don't think the Buckeyes need guards but if we did I would be touting Cincinnati Oak Hills guard Caleb Stacey for an offer. He is a Michigan commit. There is a player out there that had a Buckeye offer but accepted a Michigan offer. Linebacker James Ross accepted a Michigan offer out of the blue. He is from Michigan but the buzz was that Ohio State had a really great shot at landing him and may in fact be the team to beat. Hoke convinced him to stay home. Some other players who the Buckeyes have offered are leaning Michigans way with elite offensive line prospect Jordan Diamond and elite defensive lineman Chris Wormley from right here in Ohio being the most coveted.
The NCAA needs to come forth with their decision. Recruiting is the heart of any sports program. I say that the delay in announcing the sanctions is a penalty in its own right because of the impact on recruiting. If there is no announcement soon the kind of players who can change The Rivalry quickly will be wearing maize and blue
However, the link's broken, and can you format your comment a little better? I had to scroll down for a while before I reached the 'Reply' button.
Sry the post i sent was from the Duane Long Report 5/8/2011 under the heading The Perfect Storm.... But it's interesting we have got OSU attention
Does anybody know how many scholarships OSU is working with for 2012?
has done a great job so far cant wait to see what he does on the field