If Glasgow is your 3rd string 1T do you redshirt Mone?
I am not taking much into the Glasgow is starting if we play today but if he is good enough to be a 2nd or 3rd string tackle ... and Mone is your 3B along with Glasgow (3A) and or Hurst (2nd string) and or Pipkins (1st string) do you redshirt him? I say yes.
This is not like Pipkins freshman year situation when we lacked depth and we were forced to play a 300 lb freshman out of need.
The 1T are Pipkins/Hurst/Glasgow
The 3T are Henry/Wormley/Godin
Not sure where Strobel is anymore - he came in as a DE but seems to be a DT nowadays but a 4th string.
Assuming Mone is not your 1st string and is about the same talent wise as a freshman as a RS SO (Glasgow) and RS FR (Hurst) respectively, I don't see why you waste a redshirt year on a guy who will get 10-12 snaps a game when you have an equivalent older player. I'd rather have a RS SR beast down the road.
This is not the same philsophy I hold for the Shane Morris' of the world who need to be ready at a moments notice to go into the game as a 2nd stringer and thus makes zero sense to RS. But what would you do with Mone considering Hurst has that awesome first step and seems to be at minimum a 2nd stringer and if Glasgow is good enough to be the best NT for "1 day in practice" he should be fine playing 10-15% of the snaps as a 3rd stringer. In a pinch for a few snaps per game you could throw one of your 3Ts over to the 1T as well.
I know Pipkins is a * with an injury but I assume in the first 2-3 game Glasgow/Hurst get more reps than in game 6 when you assume Pipkins is going to get 50-60%. 2 of those first 3 games are also baby seals where any drop off from Hurst playing 12 more plays than he otherwise would is not going to kill us.
Eventual "everyone is truly healthy" lineup:
- Pipkins - 55% of snaps
- Hurst - 30% of snaps
- Glasgow - 15% of snaps
August 23rd, 2014 at 1:09 PM ^
August 23rd, 2014 at 1:09 PM ^
but Mone might also learn faster during the season due to his youth and might end the year first string.
August 24th, 2014 at 7:57 AM ^
Barring injuries, Mone is not going to be the starter by the end of the year. If he is, I'll eat a lemon. Good to see he's doing well, but we've got a bunch of talented guys on the line and he's a freshman.
August 23rd, 2014 at 1:12 PM ^
1-tech, but yeah, I think they'll redshirt him if Pipkins, Hurst, and Glasgow all stay healthy. I imagine the top three guys will all play, though, given this staff's history of rotating defense linemen.
August 23rd, 2014 at 1:15 PM ^
This coaching staff seems to be very anti-redshirt so I doubt that happens. That being said though I think Mone has a chance to make a contribution this year.
August 23rd, 2014 at 1:18 PM ^
Don't play unless the position group is struggling or injuries pop up.
August 23rd, 2014 at 1:20 PM ^
August 23rd, 2014 at 1:21 PM ^
I don't think this coaching staff is as worried about red-shirts as the fan base is. Even if Mone and Glasgow are dead even, if they think they need to play Mone a play or two here and there or on special teams, they've had no problem doing that with freshman in the past.
They seem to be much more of the mindset the best players at each spot plays, and for a lot of the younger guys that means a burned redhsirt for a few snaps here and there or on special teams.
Fir that reson I don't think Mone gets redshirted. It's why I also don't think people like Shane or Dymonte, players who could theoretically get one if there are no injuries, get them either.
August 23rd, 2014 at 1:35 PM ^
I agree this is what the coaching staff will do. And that is their tendency. I just don't necessarily agree with it - i.e. I expect Michael Ferns to blow a year just to run on special teams is Hoke's past is any indication. And I know special teams is important but there should be like players (Mike McCray and Royce Jenkins Stone in lieu of Ferns) to do these roles who are older and have their RS gone.
But my gut is they will not RS Mone - I guess it was more of a - should we redshirt him thread. Unless someone is substantially better than an older/like player I don't understand the philosophy unless it it to show future recruits - hey we play young guys a lot right away. But I think we have enough guys playing right away that we don't need to do it so much.
August 23rd, 2014 at 11:33 PM ^
........in the past we did not have the depth. We will see, I hope your expectation is incorrect and the example you used IS what happens: (RJS or McCray in lieu of Ferns)
August 23rd, 2014 at 1:21 PM ^
Ryan Glasgow, the younger brother of Graham, is not a senior, he's a RS Sophomore.
August 23rd, 2014 at 1:30 PM ^
Thx, Fixed.
August 23rd, 2014 at 1:22 PM ^
The best will play. If he's shown he's better than someone and moves his way into the rotation, he should play.
August 23rd, 2014 at 1:23 PM ^
Depends on if they think he's good enough that he'll bolt to the NFL and won't play 5 years here.
August 23rd, 2014 at 1:25 PM ^
August 23rd, 2014 at 1:25 PM ^
that Michigan is getting is because he is giving players a chance to play right away. I think if he is ready to play, he will play and I'm fine with that.
August 23rd, 2014 at 1:25 PM ^
I'm not convinced about Pipkins yet. I think he has every tool, but he was never better than inconsistent before his injury, and then that happened and we've only heard spring and fall buzz since...which I'm always careful to remember is flush with hyperbole. He could be our best inside man since Alan Branch...or he could have lost his job to Ryan Glasgow. I don't believe it for sure, but I'm willing to entertain it. It's totally possible. Glasgow has been a coach favorite for a long time now, said to be a technician (their favorite kind of player), and is listed at 296lbs). Recruiting rankings be damned, I have no doubt he has solid-to-great potential too.
Either way, I think we should (and will) play Mone. I suspect he can help us.
August 23rd, 2014 at 1:34 PM ^
is get spot duty on special teams, like the way Will Campbell did in his totally wasted freshman year. In Mone's case, I bet he gets significant playing time since Mattison likes to rotate DLs, and I think he's talented enough to be productive.
August 23rd, 2014 at 2:47 PM ^
If Hurst is ahead of Mone, then yes...
If it's tied then shit, probably...
But if Mone is clearly better than Hurst or if Hurst is playing more 3T....then no.
Mone was mentioned as a possible starter 2 weeks ago so I'm not sure he's out of the race.
We also have to take goalline and short yardage packages into account.
What if Mone isn't in your top 3 for every down situations, but he's one of your best two run stuffers and locked down a spot in the goalline and special teams packages? Similar to Will Campbell before he started. Gabe Watson was also a situtional player before starting.
Oddly enough, both of those guys should've redshirted...but I'm not referring to their freshman years.
August 23rd, 2014 at 4:31 PM ^
This is an important point. Goal line packages may only be called for a few times per game, so a goal line package specialist might not see many snaps. But those few plays per game can easily be the swing plays that win or lose the game for your team, so they take on outsized importance. If you've got a guy you think can help you here, you use him, redshirt be damned.
August 23rd, 2014 at 4:58 PM ^
August 23rd, 2014 at 1:37 PM ^
My idea of a redshirt is not real common but i see it as you redshirt a kid based on his talent..If he is not ready of course you redshirt him..
The times i would not redshirt a kid is if i felt he could 1.make an impact now 2.was not going to be an impact player through his career and here is why..Coaches see these kids everyday and they have a good idea if a kid will develope or not..If you think he is an average player then move him along in his 4 years so the scholarship can be used instead of tying it up for 5 years and odds are the player will not be brought back for a 5th year anyway..its not harsh its just the truth.
Now in Mones case i would not RS him just because we have depth..Mone can get valuable work in garbage time and in games vs lesser teams..And my opinion Mone can very likely be a early departure for NFL if he works hard because he is a gifted athlete..So for me i would not base RS on depth and i would get Mone on the field when i could because injuries happen and we may need him..Michigan will keep recruiting his position so 3-4 years from him is the goal..He can hold his own now so dont hold him back
August 23rd, 2014 at 1:57 PM ^
I think you sort of have the concept of redshirts backward when you say "waste a redshirt year". A red-shirt is by nature a wasted year. If you can avoid it and get 4 years of equivalent production out of 4 years of scholarships, rather than 5, you win. Scholarships are finite resources. You only SPEND a redshirt year, if you think you'll get the benefit back later.
Typically you do that for somebody who is not ready, either physically or mentally. Mone is physically mature. His gains from a red-shirt will be modest compared to other freshman who have to gain weight and strength.
Finally, I would not assume that Hurst is clearly ahead of Mone. Mone has gotten more mentions and fits an immediate need for interior side, particularly if Pipkins is not ready for heavy duty. It seems like Hurst's best bet is getting playing time in pass rush situations. On 1st and 2nd downs we need some size inside to offset the smaller DEs.
August 23rd, 2014 at 2:00 PM ^
Morris needs to be ready if Gardner goes down, as he is probably significantly better than Bellomy. BUT, playing in garbage time isn't going to help him significantly in that regard. Not when he's already started a game and played meaningful snaps. If Gardner is healthy, it would be potentially HUGE for Michigan if Morris could get back that red-shirt year.
August 23rd, 2014 at 3:01 PM ^
At any point during the season he can take a significant amount of snaps.
If he's coming in to take a knee or hand the ball off for an entire drive before taking a knee the next drive...Bellomy can do that.
It's highly unlikely, but I never understood why people would get some upset about this idea.
It's not like he's not taking 2nd team reps in practice, it's not like if you actually need him for a real snap during the game you can't use him because a redshirt means he's unavailable for the year.
Just try and see what happens...if you're up 48-0 in the 3rd quarter to App St., expirement is over...put Morris in the game. But if he's not going to get a real snap or it's just on snap midway through the year because DG has to come out because his helmet came off...Morris doesn't HAVE to come in. And it doesn't affect anything in practice.
August 23rd, 2014 at 5:08 PM ^
August 23rd, 2014 at 8:06 PM ^
If it's the entire 2nd half...yes, I think they're important. Because you're not being aggressive, but you're not sitting on the ball either.
If it's one drive in the 4th where you're just going to turn around and hand off to Justice Hayes and Wyatt Shallman...then no.
This is why I don't like saying one way or another, it's a common sense/"feel" thing to me.
Are you going to let him throw the ball? Is he getting snaps with the 1st/2nd team? Who's he playing against? Is he getting snaps against the 1st/2nd team?
August 24th, 2014 at 1:33 PM ^
As my primary argument I offer Bellomy vs. NE; you remember it well. He was a fish out of water because we did not have a legitimate 2nd ready to step in at qb. IMO, this was an egregious error on the staff's part not to have DG ready, even though he was playing at wr. You must have a capable 2nd team qb ready and Devin not taking 1 out of 3 snaps in practice is inexcusable to me, but also water under the bridge.
We are perefectly set now as to order of future qbs, separating each more-than-likely starter by two seasons, with the expectation that Speight will RS this season.
You don't want Shane in there for clean up duty. Instead you want him to see significant time against the opposition's best. If DG goes down you want someone coming in that gives you the greatest chance of winning. This is a statement year for us and depth and talent is finally showing up at all positions. We certainly don't want the most important position in the game to be the exclusion in this regard.
August 23rd, 2014 at 2:36 PM ^
yes. RS woul be great imho.
August 23rd, 2014 at 3:04 PM ^
August 23rd, 2014 at 5:03 PM ^
August 23rd, 2014 at 7:35 PM ^
August 23rd, 2014 at 6:13 PM ^
I am no coach, and although I watch all the games and visit the board regularly, I really don't know the difference between the two positions. But, I get the feeling they are somewhat interchangable. It really only matters in the base defense, which is only played about half the time, right? I'm guessing there will be plenty of times where two guys of the same position are playing at the same time (Pipkins & Hurst or Wormley & Henry). So, both 1st and 2nd team players at both positions will play a lot of snaps I think.
Regarding the RS, I get the feeling Mone definitely plays. If the coaches think he's good enough, and I get the feeling they do, he'll play...even if only as a 3rd string player. I'd be very surprised if Mone gets a redshirt.
August 23rd, 2014 at 9:01 PM ^
If we have six somewhat inter-changeable tackles as good or better, seems like a redshirt is a no-brainer.
August 23rd, 2014 at 9:22 PM ^
Yes, I'd redshirt Mone in that case.
I actually really ilke his game from far away, but when I see it up close, it's poorly focused, sloppy technique.
August 23rd, 2014 at 9:44 PM ^
it would be nice if he could take the redshirt.