I love me some Wolverine Historian
Not really trying to create a discussion, more about posting an excellent video collecting "recent era" Michigan Running Backs.
But I will state, that as much as I respect Mike Hart's dedication and durability, he's not the best Michigan Running back.
Certainly Wolverin Historian could have influenced things by his selection, but I never heard the announcer say, "it's going to be a foot race" during any of Hart's runs.
Not only did I hear that for Wheatley and Thomas, but frequently the foot race was won by the running back and not the defensive back.
even Leroy Hoard had break away speed that Hart never possessed.
Hart got the yards, that is clear. But I'd love to see the analysis of average per carry, versus the key rivalries/top competition between Hart and the other key Michigan Running backs.
And I can't forgive him the two fumballs against Florida. Those were pure ego.
February 18th, 2010 at 3:00 PM ^
but this was posted already.
That said, the video is just as good during the second viewing.
February 19th, 2010 at 11:58 AM ^
I didn't do a thorough scan because it just came into my inbox from my YouTube subscription.
So I thought I was the first, but thanks for appreciating it as a rehash.
February 18th, 2010 at 3:03 PM ^
You have to watch Wheatley to realize how incredibly fast he was. Incredibly incredibly fast. Watch his Rose Bowl runs against Washington. He runs by guys who look like they have angles as if they are standing still.
February 18th, 2010 at 3:53 PM ^
Those UM-UW Rose bowls were a lot of fun to watch. Ironically they matched our most explosive and complete back ever (IMO, sorry TH, MH, TB, and AT) with Washington's most explosive and complete back ever, Napoleon Kaufman. Interesting that Wheatley and Kauffman were forever intertwined. Both were the best RBs ever at their schools, explosive, and matched off twice in the Rose Bowl. Both were picked back to back in the 1st round of the 95 draft, with TW going 17th to the Giants and Kaufman going 18th to the Raiders. Wheatley joined the Raiders in 99 and split carries with Kaufman in 99 and 2000 before replacing Kaufman when he abruptly retired.
February 18th, 2010 at 3:06 PM ^
I think Timmy B was the near perfect back, too bad he had the Minor syndrome and was never healthy. He had the perfect balance between power,speed and agility.
February 18th, 2010 at 3:07 PM ^
I forgot how awesome he was. Wow.
February 18th, 2010 at 3:14 PM ^
Hey, I don't blame you. WH has made it a habit of putting together gold on a regular basis.
February 18th, 2010 at 3:22 PM ^
And Wheatley wasn't just fast. He was an excellent running back between the tackles. He put his shoulder into tacklers, got tough yardage and usually fell forward. We have never had an ungodly combination of size and speed like that.
And then best thing about Wheatley was that he was awesome in big games. Ohio State, bowl games, Penn State, and all the MSU games except '93. He came to play when there was a lot on the line. One of the best if not the best gamers we have ever had.
February 18th, 2010 at 3:33 PM ^
TW passed up NFL dollars to return for his senior year. I'm not saying everybody should do that, but I have an extra dose of gratitude and respect for those that do. A training camp injury to his shoulder diminished his output in that senior season, and his Heisman vote total and draft position were both impacted.
February 18th, 2010 at 3:22 PM ^
A wonderful place where generation after generation can learn about glorious history of Michigan Football.
Sir, I salute all of your efforts!
February 18th, 2010 at 3:29 PM ^
to have subscribed to his channel! By the way is he on here?
February 18th, 2010 at 3:59 PM ^
Er, he was anyway.
February 19th, 2010 at 1:41 PM ^
I stop by from time to time. I'm on here more often during football season.
February 18th, 2010 at 4:46 PM ^
I could never give up Wolverine Historian for lent.
February 18th, 2010 at 3:36 PM ^
i was never really sure what happened to tony after his UM days. i remember that he was hurt a bit. the only info i can find is on wiki, so i am unsure of its veracity. anyone are to read and verify?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Boles
if this is true, this sounds like a pretty tough life. although the stealing of emmitt smith's car after he assigned you to wash it is pretty good.
February 18th, 2010 at 3:58 PM ^
Tony had some substance problems and on top of that I don't think he ever fully recovered from his knee injury at the Metrodome. He ran a little upright to survive in the NFL too..
February 18th, 2010 at 3:58 PM ^
My cousin was a student when Boles got hurt and he still curses the turf in Minnesota whenever he can.
February 18th, 2010 at 3:44 PM ^
10:29
February 18th, 2010 at 3:52 PM ^
swagger
watching him call out MSU after some of his runs - nice. he gave us little brother too.
his run in the end of "the horror" was pretty great, too.
February 18th, 2010 at 4:32 PM ^
I was pretty young while Wheatley was running the rock for UofM so I don't remember him all that well but watching that I was amazed. I was a decade too late.
February 18th, 2010 at 4:37 PM ^
I have more than 80 of his videos saved in my youtube account. I can't wait for us to have some new highlights to review over and over come Spring.
February 18th, 2010 at 4:47 PM ^
Wheatley had an incredible combination of size and speed. I was spoiled during my formative years watching him run (and then Biakabutuka, who had the quickest feet ever). It's odd that no tailback has worn #6 since then. It seems like such a logical number for that position.
BTW, while it brings up painful memories, possibly the best single run Hart ever had was his last TD in the App State game. If we had won that game, that might be remembered as his signature play.
February 18th, 2010 at 4:55 PM ^
Sorry to make this essay length, but...you actually raise a very interesting question, rating Hart against other great Michigan RBs. I think there is no question that in a comparison of highlight films Tyrone Wheatley beats Hart easily. Wheatley was definitely a ridiculous specimen. I recall in particular one run he had in an ill-fated home game with Penn State: Keith Jackson was making the call and Wheatley came clean through a hole in the line of scrimmage and was not two steps through the gap before Jackson declared it a touchdown. Jackson saw a seam ahead of him in the secondary and that was that. Crazy. And that Washington Rose Bowl was a master performance.
But I actually rate Hart better. And this will sound strange but I rate him best among modern Michigan RBs based on the opposite of highlight film -- his WORST runs (compared to others' worst). I think Hart's worst is less negative than any RB I have ever seen. The last two years have helped all of us to appreciate the devastating impact of negative plays. Hart was almost impossible to tackle behind the line. He saved negative plays over and over again, and made 3 yards out of 1, 5 yards out of 3 and 12 yards out of 5 routinely. He was that incredibly annoying guy on the opposing team you think you are tackling and then he squirts ahead (think Vince Young in the Rose Bowl that shall not be named but for Braylon and Steve Breaston's contributions therein).
Maybe you could feed Wheatley 40 times and ride him to a road win at MSU. Maybe. But if I had to win a Big 10 or bowl game I think I probably would take the loud little guy. And, speaking of loud, I think his infectious positivity and confidence are just one more thing that made his teams better and help put him first for me.
February 19th, 2010 at 11:51 AM ^
rating the "best running back" is of course subjective, and impossible to have a valuable discussion without agreeing on the criteria.
Although I really don't have the time to do the research, I would like to analyze which position groups had the most success getting into the NFL from Michigan.
What my intuition tells me is that Michigan always seemed to have "great running backs" while at Michigan, but very few who made it to the NFL, and of those almost none who lasted a significant number of years. Wheatley and Thomas being two who in my memory being the successful exceptions. (what's happened to Perry for example?)
That said, one thing Michigan always had until the 2007 season was a great offensive line. And if you accept my criteria of "making it to the NFL" I'm guessing Michigan has more years where they sent OL to the NFL than they sent Running Backs.
And based on that, As the Michigan Offensive Line diminshed from a true Line to being Jake Long, is there really any other running back small enough to fit in Jake Long's pocket?
I think Hart's popularity on this site has more to do with this sites readers being too young to have experienced other running backs. And while I agree Hart was a motivator and leader, to think that he was the best motivator because he was outspoken is a mistake. To me the fact that he was allowed to be outspoken speaks more to Lloyd's wearing down, than any special ability of Mike Hart compared to all of the team leaders through the years.
Lloyd always hated talking to the press, and did not want to become the Head Coach because it required him to be the press focal point. But I remember watching him and Charles Woodson (swagger no?) after the Ohio State win. Charles was up on some podium, the camera was on him and Lloyd who was standing next to him. Woodson was just starting to make some statements back out to the crowd when Lloyd just slowly put his hand up on Charles cheek, and Woodson immediately shut his mouth. Then they politely responded to the questions.
Yes Mike Hart did have swagger, but to me he did not justify it as much as Woodson did. Yet he was allowed to get away with more of it.
Woodson never let his swagger impede his performance, and those two fumbles by Hart in the last game were his ego getting the better of him. One fumble, I say, dang I understand what you tried to do, but that wasn't good.
A second one in the exact same situation, that's pure ego, and impacted the rest of the team.
the team, the team, the team.
Fortunately Henne and the recievers were up to the task of staying ahead of Florida that day.
Of course that last game made me wonder what could have been if we'd opened up the passing and not relied on Hart's reliable 3 yards all season, or even the 2006 season?
I guess we'll see this fall. Although we've had hints of it from last fall.
February 19th, 2010 at 2:03 PM ^
I agree with the statement about Mike Hart's relative popularity with the younger crowd. It's hard to appreciate people that you didn't get a chance to watch very much. For what it's worth, Wheatley finished with a career rushing average of 6.1 ypc, which is fantastic. Mike Hart's is 5.0 ypc, which is good, but it's a lot lower. His lack of breakaway speed cost him the ability to put up bigger numbers.
February 18th, 2010 at 5:40 PM ^
You never heard the announcer say "It's going to be a foot race" with Hart? At 9:40 or so, he actually does say that, almost verbatim.
February 19th, 2010 at 11:56 AM ^
that the announcer says it's going to be a race, and Hart actually won it.
Sorry if I didn't make that clear, but I'm sure announcers say "it's going to be a foot race" quite a bit, I mean announcers really aren't that smart and like to just memorize a few things to say for a few situations (oh if only someone would invest the amount of time that Bob Ufer did, I mean how many times have you heard the comment "running like a penguin with a hot herring in his cumberbum"?)
The main point was Hart didn't really win the races.
February 18th, 2010 at 6:08 PM ^
Quick but tough runners.
February 18th, 2010 at 6:32 PM ^
michigan was very very good, but you have to admit, for the longest time the big10 had some miserable teams. wisky, purdue, indiana, northwestern, minny are all teams that range from "very good" to "have to be careful of", but back in the day could all be best categorized as "not very good."
February 19th, 2010 at 11:04 AM ^
Ugh, why did you post this?? Now I'm miss football so bad it hurts. Is it August yet?
February 19th, 2010 at 1:35 PM ^
Love all the discussions and I'm glad everyone loves the vids.
For this video, I wished I had some better Jamie Morris clips to use but most of the games I have of his were his more "quiet" games. He had some incredible speed, especially for someone his size. One of my favorite games of his was against the Buckeyes in Columbus from 1986 where he ran for 220 yards and 2 touchdowns. Most of the OSU defenders were giving him cheap shots between plays because he was so little but he continued to burn them all day. And every time he got tackled, he always managed to fall forward and gain 3-4 extra yards before hitting the turf. I have the ESPN classic presentation of this game and for some reason, they cut out alot of Morris' runs.
I'm currently working on Volume 2 of UM running backs which showcases pre-Morris backs during the Schembechler years; Larry Ricks, Stan Edwards, Butch Woolfolk, Rob Lytle and Billy Taylor. However, I have much less material to work with especially in the case of Taylor and Lytle because all college football teams in the 70's were only allowed 2 televised games a year not counting your bowl game. So I have to look at highlight tapes I bought from the M-Den in the 90's to fill that void. But it's not enough for my taste. I have a feeling Volume 2 will be much shorter.
February 19th, 2010 at 1:51 PM ^
Keep up the good work.