I don't know but I can't take Borges anymore. I just can't.
spoiler alert: i linked this
I don't know but I can't take Borges anymore. I just can't.
See that's the thing with myself. I want him gone, but don't know who to get. I'd honestly like to run a hybrid offense like Nebraska, although we'll only have DG for one more year.
I have no clue who we would get, but it has to be better than this. I have no words anymore, man.
The argument from some Borges supporters (and I'm not saying you are saying this) is "well, who would you hire?"
It really is an incredibly stupid argument to suggest that there is no one that Michigan could possibly hire that would be better. Somewhere is the next Chip Kelly at New Hampshire, or Rich Rod at Tulane, or Malzahn or Briles at a freaking high school.
And i'm not even remotely suggesting that you have to hit on the next great innovator like those guys. But there are tens, if not hundreds, of coaches capable of running a not-extreme-spread offense that are great candidates. Oregon State? San Jose State? Bowling Green? NFL position coaches?
I don't even know, but just because the average fan can't name the person doesn't mean that there aren't highly thought-of offensive minds that are eager to get a chance to prove themselves at a high profile position like Michigan.
Why the fuck did you just go off on me? I just said not sure who we would get, as I was answering the question in the OP but want Borges gone along with saying whoever we would get would be better than this. Chill the fuck out.
The OC for Slippery Rock is
Parrish is currently pre-occupied in Ypsilanti.
You are right, they will bring back Debord. Wasn't he already in the Athletic Department or with the team in some capacity?
They have to know the only thing more unpopular than Borges might be bringing back one of the retreads!
because Borges wont be let go and Kiffin doesnt want to go back down to an OC.
OL Coaching and Runing Game coordinator turned offensive coordinator. Back up the brinks truck.
His job title is actually "Andrew Luck Director of Offense". I'm not making this up. Yeah, I could live with him for sure with how their offensive line has been playing.
Thanks to a wealthy donor. Like the Don Shepherd AD at Michigan...
While I was watching Stanford beat up Oregon, I thought this exact same thing. He offense is tough and gritty with an element of the spread.
Charlie Taaffe UCF
Able to develop QBs, with 2 available at all times, so no unprepared Bellomy 2012
I hope they get Adrian Klemm from UCLA for OLine too
Anyone else at this point...
FWIW..Hoke just said in his presser that he liked the playcalling..wtf??????
Mayhem. More fun
I have no clue what Al was thinking. He better step up the rest of the season because his job's on the line. That would not really look good to recruits or other possible OC candidates.
She sounds hideous...
Scot Loeffler, Cam Cameron, Tom Herman, basically anyone.
Scot Loeffler, Cam Cameron, Tom Herman, basically anyone.
No respectable OC will come here with Hoke's caveman philosophy and hot seat.
Fred Flintstone is his name
That's just not true. Hoke is very well respected so as long as they had similar a philosophy (pro-style is not the same as caveman - did you watch the Stanford game?), lots of guys would love to come here. And he's not on the hot seat.
Watching Stanford beat up Oregon or Alabama against anyone and it is obvious that the pro style is still more than effective. Stanford has good recruits, but no better than the guys Michigan has been getting, no reason this style of offense won't work. In fact, most would argue its really the best way to a national championship.
I have been a somewhat defender of Borges, but the offense has gotten worse as the season goes on, that is unexcuseable.
I do have to also wonder how much of this is strength and conditioning too. You watch those guys get absolutely blown off the line and that is some technique but some strength and conditioning as well. In some ways the team reminds me of the 2005 team, which is well known to have suffered from a very inferior strength and conditioning program.
If you can run your offense well, you can win. If you can't, it will struggle. Whether it's a spread or pro style, it just needs to work.
We'll see. I love when people are so sure about what's true. Hot seats are created largely by fans, in my experience, and it sure seems like a lot of faith was lost after this one.
Dude knows how to prep an OL, and right now that's all I'd really like to see.
Isn't that Kugler's dad?
He's also our next year starting center's dad.
But why would he leave a head coaching gig (unless fired obvs) to be an OC?
If he gets fired, he would probably go back to the NFL.
Is way less burdensome than walking to Ann Arbor from San Diego. I would be willing to chip in to fly him out here (coach class).
More seriously, it's a big time gig with a chance to coach with his son? Also, it may be a pay raise(?)
"Coach class" -- I see what you did there.
He can coach his son.
As long as we have Hoke as head coach it is someone who runs a MANBALL offense.
See Stanford and Bama.
Where is my post did I say that it didn't work.
Wisconsin runs a manball offense. They have won a game or two over the last ten years with mediocre recruiting.
Ideal candidate: 6'4", rocket arm, rugged good looks, and the ability to call a game that produces positive rushing yards against stunningly bad defenses. No visors allowed, though. I hate visors.
...he has to have kind eyes. I think that's important.
the tigers already covered most of your categories with the brad ausmus hiring. are you suggesting we lure him away from the tigers?
Brilliant! What about Gisele, though?
Is the recruiting coordinator / hostess / hostess coach.
Whoever has got the best credentials. And whoever can actually develop QBs. Call them and tell them to name their price.
Also, Bama's and Stanford's O-Line coaches. Call them and tell them to name their price, too.
That is all.
People keep saying that - why would Cam Cameron leave LSU?
Coming from a Baltimore Ravens fan, we don't want Cam Cameron. He's awful. If we somehow hired him, I would not be a Michigan fan again. He's the same as Al Borges.
How's Caldwell got that offnse going?
Definitely don't want to talk about it. Why do the teams i like have to be so hard to watch play????
Cameron and Miles are besties.
Admit the mistake, forgive, and move on.
That would be nice. Brandon probably would not be on board for that, though. (Both admitting the mistake and the Miles part.)
not with his shady tatics. We'd be no different than OSU if Michigan hire him.
Winning cures all. I'll take shady to win some titles.
And quit acting like our players are perfect. The NCAA is broken and players will continue to get paid until that it is fixed (which I honestly think there is no fix)
Are you comfortable with oversigning and telling freshman players who are already in their dorms that they have to leave school?
with Michigan oversigning and cut players from the team? Also, are you fine with them using hostess and paying players under the tables? Are you fine with him blantantly breaking NCAA rules?
I'm not. You go root for LSU if you want Les Miles.
Will it ever end? And why does it exist anyway? He has a turnstile for his coordinators so they don't get hit on the way out. He's skeezy and would be an interview nightmare.
David Yost from Missouri.
nice name, I'm listening....
How much would Urban Meyer cost?
All of our souls.
Anyone who can figure out Ftiz can't block for shit, esp linebackers twice his size!!!
linebackers aren't 11'8", 402lbs.
they just seem like it against our offense.
People kept saying the reason Green wasn't getting more snaps is because he can't pass block, but I thought he did better than Fitz.
FItz can pick up where the blitz is coming from better. Now whether or not he'll hold up that dude for .241 seconds is another story.
No reason really, always liked him as a coach though
Mike Bloomgren OC/Interior OL coach that's his job at Stanford. And after seeing them knock Oregon around, who can argue.
No reason really, always liked him as a coach though
Mullen would probably only come here as a head coach, but yeah he'd be an amazing snag for an OC.
Fucking a, is he available? Fuck knows he isn't doing anything currently...
al borges 2011. He did better with the offense that he didn't know how to run. WTH?
...you're damn right.
looks like a good OC candidate. He looks like he might be capable of some MAGIC
He will bring the new scheme called "DAYMAN OFFENSE".
He'll be a master of bubble screens and friendship for everyone...
Nah, that's just Charlie from Always Sunny. He kills rats, takes out the garbage and huffs glue. I mean, he's obviously more productive than Borges, but he's no magic man.
I think I'm going to go watch some Philly now. At least watching that makes me happy.
It's not gonna happen (Borges getting fired) but...
Cam Cameron is probably the only one that is currently employed that'd leave to be Michigan's OC. However, he can be just as conservative and maddening as Borges. Ask Baltimore Ravens fans.
Cam Cameron is not a bad option as he has revamped that LSU offense.
Charlie Weis when he gets fired. He may suck as a head coach but he still is a good OC. It would also at least be funny instead of just sad.
That Borges is Greg Robinson incarnate on the offensive side.
I think watching the game may help the comparison. There has to be an OL still image equivalent to JT Floyd's pass "coverage" against PSU.
They way I see it now, if Borges was to hypothetically go, that would pretty much signal the end is in sight for Hoke's tenure. I don't think any decent OC would want to walk into a mess like that. We are most likely screwed until Hoke goes away or if a no name willing to take the risk ends up being our offensive savior. That said, in a perfect world, I'd love Cam Cameron or Scott Loeffler to come home.
Loeffler is the only hope out if his love of M. We are stuck with Borges until Joke is fired. Our only hope is that Funk is fired ASAP and a decent OL coach is hired.
Pathetic comment. Absolutely pathetic.
Scot Loeffler has failed at every job he's had since leaving Michigan.
Loeffler has been terrible at his last couple of stops.
Uhh he's looking pretty good carving up Miami's defense tonight.
Miami has been terrible on defense this year.
Miami defense::Michigan offense
Uhh he's looking pretty good carving up Miami's defense tonight.
Money talks. If Brandon can spend what he needs then we can get who we want. If you pay them, they will come.
Michigan has a stable of OL nearing college ready maturity, a good young TE, a QB in the wings, a playmaker hybrid WR/TE, etc. It's a pretty good situation.
I see Cam Cameron's name a lot, but why would he leave LSU?
if he does it wont be for Michigan it will be back to the nfl
Same here. He and Les are friends, and he has that position already at LSU (who is winning more than Michigan right now). He really doesn't have any ties to Michigan above "he coached here before" which he currently has with LSU, only more recently.
out of watching his play calling tonight is that it wasn't much the second half.
Dana Holgorson. At least when his offense looks dysfunctional we can blame the fact that he's high, drunk, or both.
They go hard on every beat. Don't talk to me about how they ain't real.
You are going to hire a defensive coach as the OC?
Well the offensive coach who is currently our OC caused us to gain negative yards on the ground so...can't be worse?
just put up 41 on Oklahoma.
Borges can be allowed to design the plays....we can use his playbook. However, he's not allowed to call plays or coach.
Hire him as a "play designer"...he can just sit behind a desk and think of plays to run. However, he gets NO control over what play is called.
you think the plays have been designed well?
The queen my dishes kid
I have zero coaching experience but I swear that I will not keep calling shit that isn't working.
I'm realfootballfan and I support this message.
I coordinate the crap out of elementary school class holiday parties. srsly. They don't even ask other Moms.
SO made me laugh.
it's completely different than what he's currently running. I think Hoke told him to do MANBALL offense. Hoke to offense is what RR to defense.
Borges coaches with Hoke at SDSU. Is the ghost of Bo haunting Hoke telling him to run MANBALL?
Your idea of coaching in other sports is flawed. Big time
I don't know much about either, but those teams offenses have probably out-performed michigan's in the B1G. Now I'm sad, but I'd like to hear what folks think of them.
An offensive co-ordinator who knows football instead of one who looks like a beach ball
Former Michigan offensive lineman Harold Goodwin is the offensive line/ offensive coordinator for the Arizona Cardinals. I'd like to see them make a run at him.
I would love to get Loeffler, he's a proven QB coach and aligns more with manball than Borges ever will.
No he has done nothing as an OC to deserve the job.
Temple? That was pretty impressive.
Auburn + VT maybe not so much, though.
he was at Temple for one season and mostly maintained the level of success Al Golden had established there. Everything else he's done has been terrible.
Tebow's worst season
I'm willing to take the job for a quarter of what Al's making, and I run the number 1 offense according to NCAA Football 14.
Very creative former HC who is now an O-Line coach. Brilliantly mixes Manball and gap schemes.
I would be in favor of this. He did a great job with the Raiders and was unjustifiably fired.
Mike Bobo from Georgia
I say we hire a group of monkeys to pick from all the plays in a hat. I guaruntee we rush for more yards.
How can we implement the play calling monkeys?
Why do we continually have to deal with coaching problems? Is finding a decent coaching staff really that hard? When OSU goes through coaching changes they don't seem to skip a beat.
How did the year post-Tressel and pre-Meyer go? Good coaching matters.
They didn't hire anyone, they were forced to fire Tressell. They had one bad year and have not lost a game since. If we went 6-6 in 2008 and didn't lose a game after that I'd take that any day!
It is really that hard.
If they could pull him from the west coast....what about Jeff Tedford? He has done well with QB's and if he could change this offense into somethiing positive he could get back on his feet as a HC.
It would probably only be a 2 or 3 yr fix but at worst the job would be appealing to someone else.
Can we just make a large offer of money to the Stanford offensive coordinator and see if he bites. It's unlikely but you never know unless you ask.
Alternatively we can make a similar offer to the Alabama offensive coordinator. I doubt we can outbid Alabama but you never know unless you ask.
Loefflor hasn't really done much as an offensive coordinator. I wouldn't be against him returning as a QB coach .
I'd be all for Cam Cameron but I don't thin he'll come.
The real problem is there aren't that many great pro style offensive coordinators out there in the college game as most of the best offensive coordinators are all spread guys. And I don't know if we want to go through and offensive transition again.
There's always Lane Kiffin. Just kidding.
I like all of these suggestions. One thing's for sure though; Brandon is going to need to write some really big checks to lure guys like these to Ann Arbor.
The Stanford OC would want to run the ball even more than we currently do. We need to be able to develop linemen for it to work out.
It's about being creative, creating mismatches (both with linemen and skill position players) and messing with the defense's keys. Stanford's OC is excellent at this.
Finding a good coaching staff is already difficult enough without a factioned administration who is stuck to an identity that peaked in 1997 and also poo poos one of the most successful offenses in football.
Hook and ladder!
Who was Hoke's OC at Ball State? I thought he ran more spread stuff conceptually there.
H.R. Pufnstuf; with Teddy Ruxpin as an assistant.
That hurt just to mention. Although he failed as a head coach, he put together some pretty effective offenses and managed to develop quarterbacks.
take out the keyboard, add a playbook and you're golden
Types of coaches likely to move to Michigan: out-of-work former OCs and HCs; OCs at lower tier schools; Position coaches at equivalent schools.
In the last category, Cristobal is OL coach at Alabama and could be a good fit as he tries to work his way back up from the disasterous ending at FIU.
Taafe at UCF fits in the second category, but he's pretty old and may not be a long-term solution.
Brent Pease at UF may soon fit the first category and while he hasn't been great this year, you can blame that on injuries and he did well at Boise State before that.
Rich Rodriguez. Only partly kidding.
Ya I am sure he wants to leave Arizona, a place giving him full support, in order to return to the school that ran him out of town after making it well known he was not a "Michigan Man."
I didn't say he'd do it. But I would have loved to have seen what Michigan's team could have become if Rich Rod was relieved of all thing defense related (including hiring) and was just given the offense to run.
Doesn't even matter, anyone would be an improvement. Look at Jim Bollman. That hire made MSU a laughingstock for an offseason. But at least his offense improved as the season went in, instead of regressing.
The correct answer is "anyone".
Loved what he did at Wisconsin. If he lasts as long at Pitt as their previous couple coaches he will be available.
This is the probably the best idea I've seen here.
I mentioned it a few weeks ago but my dog is still available for hire. There is no way he calls a worse game than Borges. He can simply place his paw on the playsheet. Will the offense have any kind of coherency? Nope. In other words it would be no worse than it is now. In fact, it may end up being a bit better due to my dog having no loyalty to manball.
No! MY dog! He eats Kennel Ration and he's better than yours!
Why not Fred Jackson, he has done it before and think of the hyperbole he would bring to the press conferences.....
I had posed the question earlier about who the hell would call plays if Borges was fired mid-season. I completely forgot the Fred was our OC in the mid-90's. Shame on me. So he called the magical Tim Biakabutuka 313 yard game against OSU?
Me. I put up mad points in NCAA '14.
That's got to be worth something, right?
Great OC and one of the best OL coaches in the nation. He is responsible for A&M's ridiculous OL.
Our blocking could make any coach look dumb. Unfortunately, I don't think we can put it on the kids anymore. 90% of the time our RB touched the ball he's dropped 2 yds in our own backfield.
The best is listening to the announcers two about how great Nebraskan players are playing tho. C'mon guys. Anyone could look like an all American against our line this year.
Spielman had to be just giddy inside.
I'll bet that Spielman was thinking WTF? all afternoon. He loves his team, but the guy isn't a tool. There are plenty of OSU faithful who want Michigan to do well.
Maybe it was his time with the Lions. Maybe it was his conduct when his wife was sick with cancer. He brings insights and most of all he seems to be able to put the OSU UM rivalry in perspective.
SPielman is quite fair to Michigan when he is a commentator. Seems to like Gardner's potential a lot
Not named Al Borges
Just watched LSU run off tackle left for positive yardage. Yes, Yes!! YES!!!!
Cam Cameron is the guy we want. But would he agree to coach under Hoke? And could that work?
And double check their record this year.
He is the current OC at Stanford.
He does a great job of running "manball," but also mixing in read option as well. He has coached the offensive line and has significant NFL experience. He is from FL and knows the south (GA at Alabama).
He's young and could bring some energy and youth to the staff. Also, looking extremely far down the line, he could be a logical heir to the HC job if Hoke were to make it that far.
Didn't we already have two or three posts about this during the week? And after the PSU game? And UCONN? And Akron? And Ohio 2012?
I nominate myself. I'm sure I could also do an excellent job of calling plays that won't work.
I don't think Michael Cox has any eligibility left
That's fine. I'd just hire him as my running backs coach.
Anyone who doesn't value their ego more than they value putting the ball in their best player's hands in position to make plays...
But I would defintely like to see Jeff Hecklinski at least get an interview for the job. He's one of the few guys that can bring recruits for his position in, and has done a very good job over the years with the talent he has been given.
Anyone who will call a well executed wheel route.
Wheel Wheel Wheel
fire Funk and Borges. Hire the guy from stanford for OC/OL coach and hire a qb coach.
Someone who wouldn't have handed off to Touissant that 27th time agains penn state.
Richrod is not a real suggestion, but what about Calvin McGee,you can have the Rodriguez spread, without the Rodriguez baggage, and a guy that would be only tasked with offense, and even a potential HC if needed, it would be a good move for him to get out of rr's shadow to up his own profile. All the upside of Rodriguez, none of the downside.
I'd be down for that, but don't think Hoke or Brandon would...both because of history and offensive philosophy.
Would love to see us give John Gruden the keys to the kingdom.
Great OC, great QB coach, plays MANBALL.
How about the Fan Coach? Those commercials are super annoying, but way less annoying than our offense.
Probably not happening, but Josh McDaniels maybe? He's young, will presumably be able to recruit, connection to Tom, and he's a QB guru that can call plays. Dream on self. Geep Chryst 49ers QB coach or their OC Greg Roman? Tough OLine and run game, similar QB there that has somehow progressed at an astounding rate... Whoever the new hypothetical guy is, he can't be dinosaurish at all (imagine that) and they need to not be married to any one system, as the game is changing when it comes to the QB position and offense in general.
For you guys that keep citing Stanford and 'Bama as proof that the "pro-style" system isn't dying (STOPPPP), please be advised that those are the only 2 teams that can legitimately stake that claim, and two of possibly the best coaches in football PERIOD, set the tome for what they do. Harbaugh aint walking through that door. SN: I also worry that this staff's shortsighted insistence on jumping into the Delorean and re-recruiting Todd Collins/Navarre types (Speight?) will be something to complain about/fix in the years to come. We're fucked gentlemen, plain and simple.
Josh McDanield is the OC for the patriots. He would never leave for college.
For you guys that keep citing Stanford and 'Bama as proof that the "pro-style" system isn't dying (STOPPPP), please be advised that those are the only 2 teams that can legitimately stake that claim, and two of possibly the best coaches in football PERIOD, set the tome for what they do.
What about Wisconsin? (Don't tell me Bielema is one of the best coaches in football.) LSU? Georgia?
Back up the truck, bring Les, Cam and Chavous and fix this mess!
of the season, not mention their entire tenure here is very disturbing. I'm sick and tired of the Michigan Man BS.
Bring in a coach that can develop talent and win and win now. I don't give a rat's ass where they have been in the past. This staff is in so far over their heads, they're drowning. They get out-coached every week and this team has regressed ever since ND.
Gardner is terrified to scramble and gamble, the O line is what it is and there are no adjustments at halftime. Neither side of the ball is producing, special teams is marginal at best. Another timeout with 2nd and 25 - WTF?
I have lost all faith in this team's ability to win again this season. I'm probably selling my OSU tickets as I can't imagine being in the stands to watch that mess, OSU will win by 5 TDs. The non-shutout streak is in serious jeopardy Nov. 30.
I bet he could still waltz into any Ann Arbor bar and walk out with any chick he wanted.
I was going to say Paul Cryst ,he should be out at Pitt soon and then they beat ND
How about Noel Mazzone at UCLA? They are young at o-line and had a LB, I repeat, a LB playing both ways run for over 100 yds tonight!