Wrong former Michigan member of the secondary who transferred to Pitt to continue playing for the worst secondary coach in the country.
How was Cullen not fast enough to play CB?
Your avatar is disturbing.
Is that your forehead taking a dump?
We have no idea how good a db coach Gibson is or isn't. All fan bases think some position coach at a team's weak point is some horrible coach that has been planted by rival teams to bring the program down.
Do you remember the venom directed at Andy Moeller before Lloyd left?
We've seen this at Michigan for the last 10 years. The Rivals and Insiders of the world always feed the fans ire with this bs about so and so position coach. Obviously, some coaches have to be better than others, but I think all this reporting of incompetent position coaches is garbage.
Uh, yes, we have a pretty good idea of how good of a coach Gibson is. Look at the 2008, 2009 and 2010 Michigan defenses. Worst in school history. Gibson and Tall were the only constants in that three-year period.
Tall gets a slight pass since he was a safeties coach coaching the defensive line.
That's weird, because Tall coached the defensive line earlier in his career, too. I guess that job didn't count.
He did it one year, in 2002.
Spent five years prior to Michigan coaching the spur and bandit positions at WVU. But hey, coaches on defense can be thrown around to every position and coach them with the same precision and expertise.
Football is football. If you've been coaching for 28 years, I don't think changing position responsibilities from safety to linebacker or to defensive line is that big of an issue. I probably wouldn't want a random dude coaching the quarterbacks, but that's the most important position on the field and requires some very specific skills and knowledge.
I think you are right on. QB is kind of a specialist thing, but most of these guys have had several different jobs and coached on both sides of the ball.
Can you imagine the internet meltdown back when Bo was coach when he installed G. Moeller over to O coordinator when his previous experience was being a D coordinator?
So we don't give Tall any credit for the improvement of Graham, RVB and Martin over their careers, but we blame him for Campbell, Patterson and Banks under achieving and the defense on the whole sucking even though he never coordinated it. That makes perfect sense now. Got it.
I agree with you and Magnus. QBs, goalies and pitchers should have specific coaches. Everybody else needs a coach that understands that sport. Coach Carr played qb in his playing days, but coached dbs and was a DC in college.
Didn't one of those coaches turn R. Mundy into an NFL player after he completely tanked here at Michigan?
Contrary to popular opinion these guys aren't teaching some mystical Michigan technique. All the coaches learn from each other and steal what works best so the techniques being taught and the drills used are all pretty much the same with a few variations.
The biggest thing in coaching is getting your point across. Some are better than others but the real key is to find kids that like the way you teach. Some people learn in differnt ways. Some learn better watching it, some learn better while doing it. The key is to reach them. Coaches for the most part are only as good as how much the kids fit their coaching style or their ability to adapt if it's not working.
I'm not sure if it was Tall or Gibson. Tall was the "safeties coach" and Gibson was the "secondary coach" from everything that I found, so I'm not sure which one had the responsibility of working with Mundy the most.
I thought they all had been snatched up immediately after getting fired (that's what I read on the front page). But Tall just finally got hired last week. As DC. For Charlotte. I guess that could be considered a "promotion". Kinda.
I have no way to prove this, but I think Gibson had lots to do with the defense switching to the 3-3-5.
He also had my least favorite Michigan secondary coach giving him guidance as well
Just out of curiousity, who is your second least-favorite secondary coach?
It would have to be Adam Braitwith (sp?) be default. I don't know enough of the guy so I'm also going to say Gibson.
Honestly, I thought Braithwaite did a pretty good job with what he had. Cameron Gordon was a pretty bad safety, but he never should have played that position, anyway. Vinopal did okay, and Kovacs was pretty good. It could have been a good deal worse.
I just said by default because he would be our second DB coach. We only have one year to judge him on, but for the most part I think he did okay.
Go back and read the Hello post. There were always questions about his speed and even then a potential move to safety was talked about.
Not meant as snark, but I don't understand how a guy who is so slow that he is physically incapable of playing the position in college could be rated as a four-star at that position by the recruiting sites. It doesn't matter how good of "ball skills" you have if you lack the necessary baseline physical qualities for the position.
I'm rooting for the kid, and hope he puts it all together at Pitt.
But to your post, it is interesting that he could be so highly rated as a CB when speed and tackling ability were known liabilities coming in. By his own admission:
"I want to improve my speed. That’s the main thing and I also want to make more of an impact when I hit. I need to be more physical when I tackle.” - Scout
Rivals also noted his speed and hitting were in question:
"Needs Improvement: Needs to improve his speed, which will help him to recover when beaten on a route. Christian will also need to add some muscle mass and strength, which will help him make solo tackles in the open field ."
He looked the part of a tall cover corner, though. And he has ability, just don't think enough to cover his lack of physical play - especially with GMAT.
I guess it was a known issue then. I didn't remember that from his recruiting.
CC lacked the speed to play corner and apparently lacked the toughness or desire to compete that the new regime requires. I hate to see a 4* CB and the only Top 100 and U.S. Army representative from that class (I think) leave, but he seemed to have an "entitlement" mentality. Better to get rid of bad apples sooner rather than later. His comments on the way out prevent me from rooting for him...
From ESPN's evaluation:
"The only asset Christian is missing is great speed. He has coveted size, quickness, fluidity and savvy as a D-I corner prospect." I always thought he was ticketed for safety, but I guess he didn't want to switch positions or there were other factors in play that influenced his transfer.
The only problem with that is, safeties are better tacklers than corners. If he wasn't good enough at tackling for corner, he sure wouldn't be good enough for safety.
We were trying to be a speed team, but too many of the secondary Hello posts were listing as a negative "not great speed".
with two of our DBs tranferring to PItt, Is there any chance that they've been "recruited" to transfer there?
There's always a chance. But following coaches is nothing new. They committed to play for Gibson, Magee, and Dews, all of whom are at Pitt now. In addition, Vinopal is only a little over an hour from home, and Cullen Christian is back at home - with one of his best friends from high school, Brandon Ifill.
Can we at least all agree that Ifill, Christian and Vinopal will all turn out to be All Big East perfromers and will amazingly look much faster while at Pitt?
Ryan Mundy's play at WV and then making the NFL was one of the more shocking things I've seen in recent years.
Didn't I read somewhere that he blamed the old coaches for having it out for him?
There were questions about his speed from Day 1. They were brought up by virtually every analyst out there.
Also, he tackles like Deion Sanders.
Either that or he didn't tackle...which is kind of important if you are a slow cornerback. Actually that may have helped him.
faster" to play the position. If it was "must be faster", how was he so highly rated? With this fisking, he couldn't tackle and couldn't run fast, how does that translate into an elite recruit?
I don't know. I didn't rank him that high, and I wouldn't have ranked him that high if I had the power to do Scout/Rivals/ESPN rankings.
This is my first time posting on the blog, and I have really enjoyed logging in countless times over the past year to read all of your threads.
For the past two years I have lived in Cleveland, Ohio because of my employment...I am originally from Grand Rapids, Michigan. Due to my location, the local newspaper I see laying around offices, buildings, etc is the Cleveland Plain Dealer.
In looking at the Sports page today, I found it interesting that they posted a feature called, "Big Ten Strong." This little piece focuses on how in the past decade, the Big Ten has seen one of its defensive lineman taken in the first round every year, but never more then two...
Notice the list of names/years they include:
2010: Jared Odrick, Penn State, No. 28
2009: Aaron Maybin, Penn State, No 11
2008: Vernon Gholston, Ohio State, No 6
No need to go any further to make my point...Brandon Graham, Michigan was selected with the 13th overall pick in the 2010 draft by the Philadelphia Eagles yet the Cleveland Plain Dealer chose to put Jared Odrick at pick No. 28 in the article as the BT's Dline man from that class....Interesting.
the PD reporter, is a huge Buckeye homer, as even tosu fans acknowledge. I just emailed him to call him on the omission. don't let those guys get away with that stuff!
Too slow, can't tackle....yup let's offer him a full ride scholarship to the winningest football program in history.
What did the coaches even see in this player. Height? Were they that desperate for a tall corner?
Well, he had offers from lots of places, and he was the #3 or #6 cornerback, depending on whether you trust Rivals or Scout more.
So I don't really blame the coaches too much for this offer.
I don't think coaches really base their recruiting priorities on the recruiting sites, no?
Some do (*cough* Larry Coker *cough*).
The coaching staff saw the same stuff in him that all of the recruiting services saw, as well as the coaches of a bunch of top-flight teams (including Ohio State*).
Besides, even if there were some red flags, I'm not sure how much you can blame the coaches for taking a 'flyer' on a consensus 4-star corner when we desperately, desparately, DESPARATELY needed corners.
*Okay, maybe this is the wrong day to rely on the judgment of Ohio State coaches... but you get my drift.
are you that fucking stupid? He was the #3 overall CB by Scout in 2010. He's still only a sophmore.
On a good defense (i.e., one with competent safety play), you can get by with corners that aren't blazing fast. The primary responsbility of a corner is to disrupt short/medium throws. On deep balls, the free safety is supposed to come over and provide help. If the offense goes four wide, the corner may not have that safety help, but at the same time, the pass protection is more limited there so the QB generally will not go deep that often.
Andre Weathers, who started opposite Woodson in '97, was not that fast, but he was quick and had the size to hold his own on the line (and against the run). He had an excellent season.
As for Christian's tackling ability, it shouldn't be surprising that he was poor in that area as a freshman. Tackling isn't an innate ability. It usually has to be developed by the staff.
When he ran, he just wasn't able to get as far over a given period of time.
That's like asking "if a tree falls in the woods, and no one is around to provide help over the top, will the tree get torched for six?"
Thank you for that. You made my day.
I remember during his recruitment that he seemed to lack sufficient speed. He ran like a 4.6 40 or something, and I seem to remember it being kinda slow.
He didn't even bother to lie to Rivals - he listed a 4.68 forty time. And if THAT is the lie...well...you can see the problem.
I have not seen anything on the subject in a couple of days. Is he for sure gone and what about dj williamson?
Cullen Christian is gone, yes.
Nothing certain on Williamson yet, AFAIK.
When the highest rated recruit can't beat out Avery (no knock on him, but he's not the Army All American), Talbott, and Anderson under two different staffs, he probably had more problems than speed holding him back. This isn't much different than worrying about losing Justin Turner in the short term- he wasn't going to play much anyway barring an unforseen massive improvement. At least this time they're more prepared, depthwise. I swear, if Countess shows up out of shape, lazy, or entitled I'm going to be praying for more gritty 3 stars.
perhaps he thinks that with Vinopal and Ifill being slated for Safety, he has a better shot to stay at CB. IMO, Cullen is probably looking forward to a no pressure forced redshirt year to work on his CB skills while not having to compete yet.
doubtful speed was problemo numero uno in Cullen's descent down the depth chart
It remains to be seen how the new Pitt coaching staff will do on the recruiting trail, but Todd Graham and company have already landed a four-star cornerback. Former Penn Hills standout Cullen Christian is leaving Michigan and will transfer to Pitt.
Cullen Christian is transferring to Pitt.
"I have a final tomorrow and then I'm going home tomorrow," Christian told PantherLair.com Monday afternoon.
A four-star prospect in the class of 2010, Christian picked Michigan after compiling a double-digit list of scholarship offers. He narrowed his options to Michigan, Pitt, West Virginia, Ohio State, and UCLA, but committed to the Wolverines largely on the strength of his relationship with the coaching staff in Ann Arbor.
The key cog in that relationship was defensive backs coach Tony Gibson. But when head coach Rich Rodriguez was fired after the 2010 season and replaced with Brady Hoke, Gibson and the rest of the coaching staff were let go as well.
"I didn't come up here for the new coaching staff," Christian said Monday. "So when Coach Gibson left, it got crazy; I wanted to be with somebody who recruited me, somebody who knows me and knows what I'm about. That's why I picked Michigan in the first place, and it was a different coaching staff, I wouldn't have committed there.
"It's a good school with a big name and everything, and they reeled me in. The main thing was Coach Gibson; that was the big thing in getting me to Michigan."
When Christian got to Michigan, though, the coaching staff quickly became the only draw.
"I didn't really like it up here," Christian said. "I didn't like the campus, and really, I've miserable since I've been up here.
"I think it was just about me and what I'm used to being around; there's a difference between living in Pittsburgh and Ann Arbor. A big difference. A lot of kids like it here, and some don't. It just wasn't for me.
"So once the coaches left, there wasn't much holding me here. I was like, 'Why am I here? I don't know these coaches and they didn't recruit me.'
"I remember my dad asked me before I picked Michigan, he said, 'if the Michigan coaches were at Pitt, would you go there?' And I said I would. Now that's happening, and it's like a new beginning."
Christian, 6'1" 190, ranked among the nation's top 100 recruits in the class of 2010 and was the No. 8 cornerback prospect in addition to being ranked No. 2 overall in the state of Pennsylvania. He was also the first player in Penn Hills history to participate in the U.S. Army All-American, and he saw the field in 11 games as a true freshman at Michigan while working on special teams and as a reserve cornerback.
Due to NCAA transfer rules, he will have to sit out the 2011 season, after which he will have three years of eligibility at Pitt. The Panthers will graduate one starting corner after this season, opening an opportunity for Christian to contribute the first year he is eligible.
"It's cool to be going back home," he said. "When I decided to transfer, I was thinking about West Virginia, but then I figured I might as well go back home. My friends and family are there and I have people who haven't seen me play yet. It's good to have that support.
"At first, I was frustrated with all of this. It's not in the plans for you to commit somewhere and end up transferring. But after I thought about it, it was what I wanted to do. When I think about all the positives, with being back with the coaches I know and being back home, I'm looking forward to it. It was frustrating, but I feel better about it every day."
Christian is the second Michigan player to transfer to Pitt this spring. Safety Ray Vinopal, who also played as a true freshman in 2010, is also making the move from Ann Arbor to Pittsburgh.
I wish him the best at Pitt, it was too bad that he didn't like it. It is probably for the best for him to transfer if he was that miserable. I just hope it didn't rub off on other players.
I actually saw him the other day in the dining hall and he looked pretty small to be honest. I mean I'm 6'4" but he barely even looked like an athlete, let alone a football player. He would have gotten run over by any college WR.
Best of wishes to Cullen.