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How was Cullen not fast enough to play CB?

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April 25th, 2011 at 12:40 PM
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iawolve
iawolve's picture
Joined: 11/03/2008
MGoPoints: 2488
How was Cullen not fast enough to play CB?

Sorry for the delay due to the holiday, but I saw a blurb on Rivals where "multiple sources" noted that CC was not fast enough to play CB. It simply was not going to work out for him here. Yes, the guy struggled last year, but he was a freshman. He also had my least favorite Michigan secondary coach giving him guidance as well so I considered last year a mulligan.

However, not being fast enough should have shown up somewhere else along the way to this year. Not like the kid was not in camps or All-Star games, I was really surprised by the comment. Was this something that was broadly known and I simply missed it? Would appreciate some insight considering this is the third secondary recruit we have signed to the team and lost via transfer who was not fast enough.

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April 25th, 2011 at 12:55 PM | Wrong former Michigan member (Score:1)
jg2112
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Joined: 11/25/2008
MGoPoints: 5837

Wrong former Michigan member of the secondary who transferred to Pitt to continue playing for the worst secondary coach in the country.

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April 25th, 2011 at 1:33 PM | Your avatar is disturbing. (Score:1)
ken725
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Joined: 10/26/2008
MGoPoints: 4540

Your avatar is disturbing.

Greetings from Bolivia.

"It's special how the real true people hang together. And if you don't support the program you're not a true Michigan guy. It's that simple."  - Gary Moeller

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April 25th, 2011 at 2:58 PM | Is that your forehead taking a dump? (Score:1)
bringthewood
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Is that your forehead taking a dump?

 

"I knew Bo Schembechler and you sir, are no Bo Schembechler!"

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April 25th, 2011 at 1:51 PM | Enough (Score:1)
Ziff72
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 5142

We have no idea how good a db coach Gibson is or isn't.   All fan bases think some position coach at a team's weak point is some horrible coach that has been planted by rival teams to bring the program down.  

Do you remember the venom directed at Andy Moeller before Lloyd left? 

 We've seen this at Michigan for the last 10 years.  The Rivals and Insiders of the world always feed the fans ire with this bs about so and so position coach.   Obviously, some coaches have to be better than others,  but I think all this reporting of incompetent position coaches is garbage.

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April 25th, 2011 at 2:00 PM | Uh, yes, we have a pretty (Score:1)
jg2112
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Joined: 11/25/2008
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Uh, yes, we have a pretty good idea of how good of a coach Gibson is. Look at the 2008, 2009 and 2010 Michigan defenses. Worst in school history. Gibson and Tall were the only constants in that three-year period.

Tall gets a slight pass since he was a safeties coach coaching the defensive line.

Gibson? Please.

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April 25th, 2011 at 2:09 PM | That's weird, because Tall (Score:1)
Magnus
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That's weird, because Tall coached the defensive line earlier in his career, too.  I guess that job didn't count.

Twitter - Recruiting Update: May 13

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April 25th, 2011 at 2:17 PM | He did it one year, in (Score:1)
jg2112
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Joined: 11/25/2008
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He did it one year, in 2002.

Spent five years prior to Michigan coaching the spur and bandit positions at WVU.  But hey, coaches on defense can be thrown around to every position and coach them with the same precision and expertise.

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April 25th, 2011 at 2:43 PM | Football is football.  If (Score:1)
Magnus
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Football is football.  If you've been coaching for 28 years, I don't think changing position responsibilities from safety to linebacker or to defensive line is that big of an issue.  I probably wouldn't want a random dude coaching the quarterbacks, but that's the most important position on the field and requires some very specific skills and knowledge.

Twitter - Recruiting Update: May 13

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April 25th, 2011 at 2:59 PM | Agree 100% (Score:1)
Ziff72
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 5142

I think you are right on.  QB is kind of a specialist thing, but most of these guys have had several different jobs and coached on both sides of the ball.

Can you imagine the internet meltdown back when Bo was coach when he installed G. Moeller over to O coordinator when his previous experience was being a D coordinator?

So we don't give Tall any credit for the improvement of Graham, RVB  and Martin over their careers, but we blame him for Campbell, Patterson and Banks under achieving and the defense on the whole sucking even though he never coordinated it.   That makes perfect sense now. Got it.

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April 25th, 2011 at 7:29 PM | I agree with you and Magnus. (Score:1)
Crazy Canuck
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Joined: 01/22/2011
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I agree with you and Magnus. QBs, goalies and pitchers should have specific coaches. Everybody else needs a coach that understands that sport. Coach Carr played qb in his playing days, but coached dbs and was a DC in college.

Michigan fans are not made. They are born!

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April 25th, 2011 at 2:50 PM | Who (Score:1)
Ziff72
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 5142

Didn't one of those coaches turn R. Mundy into an NFL player after he completely tanked here at Michigan?

Contrary to popular opinion these guys aren't teaching some mystical Michigan technique.  All the coaches learn from each other and steal what works best so the techniques being taught and the drills used are all pretty much the same with a few variations. 

The biggest thing in coaching is getting your point across.   Some are better than others but the real key is to find kids that like the way you teach.  Some people learn in differnt ways.  Some learn better watching it, some learn better while doing it.  The key is to reach them.  Coaches for the most part are only as good as how much the kids fit their coaching style or their ability to adapt if it's not working.

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April 25th, 2011 at 2:59 PM | I'm not sure if it was Tall (Score:1)
Magnus
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I'm not sure if it was Tall or Gibson.  Tall was the "safeties coach" and Gibson was the "secondary coach" from everything that I found, so I'm not sure which one had the responsibility of working with Mundy the most.

Twitter - Recruiting Update: May 13

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April 25th, 2011 at 8:26 PM | It's funny, being a former Rich staff member (Score:1)
M-Wolverine
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Joined: 10/04/2009
MGoPoints: 38747

I thought they all had been snatched up immediately after getting fired (that's what I read on the front page). But Tall just finally got hired last week. As DC. For Charlotte. I guess that could be considered a "promotion". Kinda.

"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk

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April 25th, 2011 at 2:12 PM | I have no way to prove this, (Score:1)
ken725
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Joined: 10/26/2008
MGoPoints: 4540

I have no way to prove this, but I think Gibson had lots to do with the defense switching to the 3-3-5.

Greetings from Bolivia.

"It's special how the real true people hang together. And if you don't support the program you're not a true Michigan guy. It's that simple."  - Gary Moeller

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April 25th, 2011 at 2:14 PM | He also shot the Ayatollah. (Score:1)
Magnus
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He also shot the Ayatollah.

Twitter - Recruiting Update: May 13

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April 25th, 2011 at 3:09 PM | ...but he didn't shoot the Taliban (Score:1)
twohooks
Joined: 01/21/2010
MGoPoints: 1407

...but he didn't shoot the Taliban

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April 25th, 2011 at 12:44 PM | You have a list? (Score:1)
saveferris
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Joined: 07/02/2009
MGoPoints: 3072

He also had my least favorite Michigan secondary coach giving him guidance as well

Just out of curiousity, who is your second least-favorite secondary coach?

 

"...what do you say, is it the new Bluesmobile or what?"

"Fix the cigarette lighter."

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April 25th, 2011 at 1:41 PM | It would have to be Adam (Score:1)
ken725
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Joined: 10/26/2008
MGoPoints: 4540

It would have to be Adam Braitwith (sp?) be default.  I don't know enough of the guy so I'm also going to say Gibson.

Greetings from Bolivia.

"It's special how the real true people hang together. And if you don't support the program you're not a true Michigan guy. It's that simple."  - Gary Moeller

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April 25th, 2011 at 2:05 PM | Honestly, I thought (Score:1)
Magnus
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Joined: 07/17/2008
MGoPoints: 27437

Honestly, I thought Braithwaite did a pretty good job with what he had.  Cameron Gordon was a pretty bad safety, but he never should have played that position, anyway.  Vinopal did okay, and Kovacs was pretty good.  It could have been a good deal worse.

Twitter - Recruiting Update: May 13

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April 25th, 2011 at 2:14 PM | I just said by default (Score:1)
ken725
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Joined: 10/26/2008
MGoPoints: 4540

I just said by default because he would be our second DB coach.  We only have one year to judge him on, but for the most part I think he did okay. 

Greetings from Bolivia.

"It's special how the real true people hang together. And if you don't support the program you're not a true Michigan guy. It's that simple."  - Gary Moeller

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April 25th, 2011 at 12:44 PM | http://mgoblog.com/content/he (Score:1)
wlubd
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Joined: 02/26/2009
MGoPoints: 4971

http://mgoblog.com/content/hello-cullen-christian

Go back and read the Hello post. There were always questions about his speed and even then a potential move to safety was talked about.

Twitter

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April 25th, 2011 at 3:27 PM | Not meant as snark, but I (Score:1)
Magnum P.I.
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Joined: 07/16/2009
MGoPoints: 2745

Not meant as snark, but I don't understand how a guy who is so slow that he is physically incapable of playing the position in college could be rated as a four-star at that position by the recruiting sites. It doesn't matter how good of "ball skills" you have if you lack the necessary baseline physical qualities for the position. 

"There was a time I could have been mistaken for Burt Reynolds. I had a moustache and so did he. But he was the number one star in the world, so there wasn't really much confusion."

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April 25th, 2011 at 12:49 PM | Best of luck to CC (Score:1)
Bodogblog
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Joined: 06/08/2010
MGoPoints: 7577

I'm rooting for the kid, and hope he puts it all together at Pitt.

But to your post, it is interesting that he could be so highly rated as a CB when speed and tackling ability were known liabilities coming in.  By his own admission:

"I want to improve my speed. That’s the main thing and I also want to make more of an impact when I hit. I need to be more physical when I tackle.” - Scout

Rivals also noted his speed and hitting were in question:

"Needs Improvement: Needs to improve his speed, which will help him to recover when beaten on a route. Christian will also need to add some muscle mass and strength, which will help him make solo tackles in the open field ."

He looked the part of a tall cover corner, though.  And he has ability, just don't think enough to cover his lack of physical play - especially with GMAT.

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April 25th, 2011 at 2:40 PM | Thanks for that (Score:1)
iawolve
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Joined: 11/03/2008
MGoPoints: 2488

I guess it was a known issue then. I didn't remember that from his recruiting.

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April 25th, 2011 at 11:30 PM | Survival of the Fittest (Score:1)
RLS-Jr
Joined: 01/13/2011
MGoPoints: 94

CC lacked the speed to play corner and apparently lacked the toughness or desire to compete that the new regime requires.  I hate to see a 4* CB and the only Top 100 and U.S. Army representative from that class (I think) leave, but he seemed to have an "entitlement" mentality.  Better to get rid of bad apples sooner rather than later.  His comments on the way out prevent me from rooting for him...

Go Blue or Go Home...

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April 25th, 2011 at 12:49 PM | From ESPN's (Score:1)
West Texas Blue
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Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 1661

From ESPN's evaluation:

"The only asset Christian is missing is great speed. He has coveted size, quickness, fluidity and savvy as a D-I corner prospect."   I always thought he was ticketed for safety, but I guess he didn't want to switch positions or there were other factors in play that influenced his transfer.

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April 25th, 2011 at 7:41 PM | The only problem with that (Score:1)
Crazy Canuck
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Joined: 01/22/2011
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The only problem with that is, safeties are better tacklers than corners. If he wasn't good enough at tackling for corner, he sure wouldn't be good enough for safety.

Michigan fans are not made. They are born!

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April 25th, 2011 at 8:23 PM | Wasn't that true of too many of our recent recruits? (Score:1)
M-Wolverine
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Joined: 10/04/2009
MGoPoints: 38747

We were trying to be a speed team, but too many of the secondary Hello posts were listing as a negative "not great speed".

"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk

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April 25th, 2011 at 12:52 PM | with two of our DBs (Score:1)
natesezgoblue
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Joined: 05/24/2010
MGoPoints: 2336

with two of our DBs tranferring to PItt, Is there any chance that they've been "recruited" to transfer there?

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April 25th, 2011 at 12:54 PM | There's always a chance.  But (Score:1)
Magnus
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Joined: 07/17/2008
MGoPoints: 27437

There's always a chance.  But following coaches is nothing new.  They committed to play for Gibson, Magee, and Dews, all of whom are at Pitt now.  In addition, Vinopal is only a little over an hour from home, and Cullen Christian is back at home - with one of his best friends from high school, Brandon Ifill.

Twitter - Recruiting Update: May 13

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April 25th, 2011 at 1:33 PM | Agree? (Score:1)
Ziff72
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 5142

Can we at least all agree that  Ifill, Christian and Vinopal will all turn out to be All Big East perfromers and will amazingly look much faster while at Pitt?

Ryan Mundy's play at WV and then making the NFL  was one of the more shocking things I've seen in recent years.

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April 25th, 2011 at 12:59 PM | Didn't I read somewhere that (Score:1)
SC Wolverine
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Joined: 08/18/2010
MGoPoints: 1510

Didn't I read somewhere that he blamed the old coaches for having it out for him?

 

"Football is happening at Michigan... we have that savoir faire."  Dhani Jones

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April 25th, 2011 at 12:53 PM | There were questions about (Score:1)
Magnus
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Joined: 07/17/2008
MGoPoints: 27437

There were questions about his speed from Day 1.  They were brought up by virtually every analyst out there.

Also, he tackles like Deion Sanders.

Twitter - Recruiting Update: May 13

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April 25th, 2011 at 12:55 PM | Coked up? (Score:1)
YakAttack
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Joined: 01/20/2009
MGoPoints: 10739

?

http://semichigansports.com

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April 25th, 2011 at 1:03 PM | Either that or he didn't (Score:1)
UM2k1
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Joined: 01/29/2009
MGoPoints: 1552

Either that or he didn't tackle...which is kind of important if you are a slow cornerback.  Actually that may have helped him.

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April 25th, 2011 at 2:43 PM | There is a difference between "could be faster" and "must be (Score:1)
iawolve
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Joined: 11/03/2008
MGoPoints: 2488

faster" to play the position. If it was "must be faster", how was he so highly rated? With this fisking, he couldn't tackle and couldn't run fast, how does that translate into an elite recruit?

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April 25th, 2011 at 2:46 PM | I don't know.  I didn't rank (Score:1)
Magnus
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Joined: 07/17/2008
MGoPoints: 27437

I don't know.  I didn't rank him that high, and I wouldn't have ranked him that high if I had the power to do Scout/Rivals/ESPN rankings.

Twitter - Recruiting Update: May 13

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April 25th, 2011 at 1:07 PM | Cleveland Plain Dealer (Score:1)
Bru21
Joined: 04/25/2011
MGoPoints: 6

This is my first time posting on the blog, and I have really enjoyed logging in countless times over the past year to read all of your threads.

For the past two years I have lived in Cleveland, Ohio because of my employment...I am originally from Grand Rapids, Michigan.  Due to my location, the local newspaper I see laying around offices, buildings, etc is the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

In looking at the Sports page today, I found it interesting that they posted a feature called, "Big Ten Strong."  This little piece focuses on how in the past decade, the Big Ten has seen one of its defensive lineman taken in the first round every year, but never more then two...

Notice the list of names/years they include:

2010: Jared Odrick, Penn State, No. 28

2009: Aaron Maybin, Penn State, No 11

2008: Vernon Gholston, Ohio State, No 6

No need to go any further to make my point...Brandon Graham, Michigan was selected with the 13th overall pick in the 2010 draft by the Philadelphia Eagles yet the Cleveland  Plain Dealer chose to put Jared Odrick at pick No. 28 in the article as the BT's Dline man from that class....Interesting.

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April 25th, 2011 at 1:11 PM | (No subject) (Score:1)
thisisme08
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Joined: 12/02/2008
MGoPoints: 1458

Blue is Faster

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April 25th, 2011 at 2:44 PM | Lesmerises (Score:1)
Wolverine 73
Joined: 08/03/2009
MGoPoints: 563

the PD reporter, is a huge Buckeye homer, as even tosu fans acknowledge.  I just emailed him to call him on the omission.  don't let those guys get away with that stuff!

wolverine 73

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April 25th, 2011 at 1:08 PM | Too slow, can't tackle....yup (Score:1)
Coldwater
Joined: 12/14/2008
MGoPoints: 761

Too slow, can't tackle....yup let's offer him a full ride scholarship to the winningest football program in history.   

 

What did the coaches even see in this player.  Height?  Were they that desperate for a tall corner?   

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April 25th, 2011 at 1:11 PM | Well, he had offers from lots (Score:1)
Magnus
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Joined: 07/17/2008
MGoPoints: 27437

Well, he had offers from lots of places, and he was the #3 or #6 cornerback, depending on whether you trust Rivals or Scout more.

So I don't really blame the coaches too much for this offer.

Twitter - Recruiting Update: May 13

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April 25th, 2011 at 3:32 PM | I don't think coaches really (Score:1)
Magnum P.I.
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Joined: 07/16/2009
MGoPoints: 2745

I don't think coaches really base their recruiting priorities on the recruiting sites, no? 

"There was a time I could have been mistaken for Burt Reynolds. I had a moustache and so did he. But he was the number one star in the world, so there wasn't really much confusion."

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April 25th, 2011 at 3:40 PM | Some do (*cough* Larry Coker (Score:1)
Magnus
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Joined: 07/17/2008
MGoPoints: 27437

Some do (*cough* Larry Coker *cough*).

Twitter - Recruiting Update: May 13

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April 25th, 2011 at 1:16 PM | Once again... (Score:1)
BiSB
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Joined: 08/15/2009
MGoPoints: 27875

http://mgoblog.com/content/hello-cullen-christian

The coaching staff saw the same stuff in him that all of the recruiting services saw, as well as the coaches of a bunch of top-flight teams (including Ohio State*).

Besides, even if there were some red flags, I'm not sure how much you can blame the coaches for taking a 'flyer' on a consensus 4-star corner when we desperately, desparately, DESPARATELY needed corners.

*Okay, maybe this is the wrong day to rely on the judgment of Ohio State coaches... but you get my drift.

They no longer call me Bisbiño

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April 25th, 2011 at 1:41 PM | are you that fucking stupid? (Score:1)
natesezgoblue
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Joined: 05/24/2010
MGoPoints: 2336

are you that fucking stupid?  He was the #3 overall CB by Scout in 2010.   He's still only a sophmore.  

 

 http://michigan.scout.com/a.z?s=162&p=8&c=1&nid=3671306

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April 25th, 2011 at 2:18 PM | On a good defense (i.e., one (Score:1)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 28961

On a good defense (i.e., one with competent safety play), you can get by with corners that aren't blazing fast.  The primary responsbility of a corner is to disrupt short/medium throws.  On deep balls, the free safety is supposed to come over and provide help.  If the offense goes four wide, the corner may not have that safety help, but at the same time, the pass protection is more limited there so the QB generally will not go deep that often.  

Andre Weathers, who started opposite Woodson in '97, was not that fast, but he was quick and had the size to hold his own on the line (and against the run).  He had an excellent season.

As for Christian's tackling ability, it shouldn't be surprising that he was poor in that area as a freshman.  Tackling isn't an innate ability.  It usually has to be developed by the staff.  

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April 25th, 2011 at 5:12 PM | We had a CB opposite Charles (Score:1)
UMfan21
Joined: 09/28/2009
MGoPoints: 1769

We had a CB opposite Charles Woodson?

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April 25th, 2011 at 11:03 PM | And that's how you know he (Score:1)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 28961

And that's how you know he did a good job.

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April 25th, 2011 at 1:11 PM | How was he not fast enough? (Score:1)
BiSB
BiSB's picture
Joined: 08/15/2009
MGoPoints: 27875

When he ran, he just wasn't able to get as far over a given period of time.

That's like asking "if a tree falls in the woods, and no one is around to provide help over the top, will the tree get torched for six?"

They no longer call me Bisbiño

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