I believe the rule ist you can only redshirt your first year unless it is for medical reasons. I.e. you can't randomly redshirt a sophomore - senior.
From Portage Northern.
I believe the rule ist you can only redshirt your first year unless it is for medical reasons. I.e. you can't randomly redshirt a sophomore - senior.
The rule is five years to play four, with a few exeptions for hardship or medical reasons.
I don't think that's accurate. Look at the Stonum & Hagerup situations, for example.
I believe the rule is that you have five years to play four seasons. I agree with Space Coyote that using a redshirt after a player's freshman year is easier said than done, but I'm pretty sure it is within the rules.
I stand corrected. Actually I'm sitting, but corrected none the less.
Probably the most apt comparison would be OSU LB Sabino. If I remember correctly, he was a guy who was really hyped, played early and disappointed, then took a redshirt year in the middle of his career to take time to mature and develop.
Legendary Ohio TE Giovanni Strassini did the same thing.
At least that's what he told my cousin who went to Ohio when he was signing autographs at an alumni event. I have been unable to verify via internets, which weirdly has no record of such a dude playing for Ohio.
ususally plays out their college elegibility. There is a chance but negligible.
Have there been any updates on the JUCO or transfer route? I think since the coaches have openly talked about this then they would like to redshirt him this year. However, if this is not possible then I think they'll have to wait to fall to see if he is capable or not to play this year. I guess it depends as well on the performance of walk-ons already here.
If we haven't gotten a juco/transfer by now, we're probably not gonna get one
Let it all sort itself out in Fall camp. If Morris and Cleary are pretty dead-even after camp, I'd say tie goes to the upperclassmen, as at least he's been in the system longer. But I do think Morris will begin to separate himself after a few weeks into the season. I'd love to see him redshirt, as it will do Morris a lot of good next year to hold a clipboard and get in the weight room. But if he's the best option behind Gardner, and Gardner goes down, play him.
You're doing a disservice to yourself, as well as the team, by not putting your best options on the field.
I think everybody agrees that if Devin gets injured, then Morris (assuming he is the #2) must play. The question is whether Morris should play whether Devin gets hurt or not, on the assumption that the preparation will be crucial if such an injury does occur (or if DG leaves early for the NFL).
If he's the second best option, then play him. We don't want to be put in a position where Devin plays so well this season that he leaves for the NFL, and we have no QB with any significant snaps. Especially with the road schedule that we have in 2014.
It sucks to burn a redshirt, but if necessary, I'd rather give Shane some meaningful snaps this year, or at least garbage time. Especially if he's the next best option. If we don't, and Gardner leaves next year, we wouldn't necessarily be screwed, but it would just make things for 2014 more complicated.
Then have him "injure his back" later in the year.
Ask Heiko to write this on a slip of paper and hand it to Gorgeous Al next time he sees him.
This year, redshirt next. I think that is the best option.
I have heard this opinion many times but i just dont like it..Are you saying redshirt Morris and leave Speight as the #2 or #3 ? because i dont think its unreal to think Speight and Morris will be better options than Bellomy...I cant justify not playing the best players.
Play Morris and redshirt Speight i can see but not the Morris redshirt his sophmore year..it doesnt sound like something a program like Michigan would have to do with its recruiting power and i cant see Morris liking the idea either.
Get Morris experience this year. Next year, when you have 4 scholarship QBs available to you take some time to consider long term. If the difference between Morris and Bellamy / speight isn't massive, try and redshirt him.
This year, the Likely difference between Morris and the other options is much greater than it will be next year.
Are getting to the point where long term shouldn't really be a factor in decision making. QB may be the last position where depth is an issue, but after this season, that problem is hopefully gone.
Based on his sr year (ok course mono played a part) I am not sure Shane is ready but I say play Shane next year despite this. Your point about depth is accurate.
Assuming DG does not declare for the draft, a year from now you are going to have
DG, Bellomy, Shane, Wilton on your roster. If DG goes you still have 3.
The year after Shane, Wilton, and 2015 top end recruit, etc.
We should be back to the cycle where your starter mostly is going to be playing just 2 years as a jr and sr by the 2016 season.
is close to Morris, you redshirt Morris and put them in the same class? I fail to see any logic to this approach.
If we hadn't burned Denards and Devins redshirt then we wouldn't really have qb depth worries this year. DIlithium could just step back in.
You Play To Win Theee Game !! ...Whoever wins the #2 QB spot in fall camp is #2..All that future stuff handles itself..we are recruiting very well so lets win now and let the future play out..there is no guarentee Morris will be the man down the road anyway (i think he will).
We cant play the what if game and lose..We have a good team now and have to go into every game with our best players we can line up..to me its simple as that
Depends on how good Cleary is, which, let's face it, only the coaches know.
was a beet farmer
Never burn a redshirt if you don't have to. That said, the scenario all comes down to Gardner staying on his feet. If Gardner gets the wind knocked out of him and we're undefeated and it's 3rd and 8 in the opponent's red zone deep into the B1G season, you insert the player that gives you the best shot to win. My guess in that scenario is Shane.
If we are undefeated late in the season and need our backup QB to come in and play in a critical situation, then certainly we must put in Morris if he's the best option we have available. But that's not the decision point. The decision point is when we are up by 40 on Akron with six minutes left in the game. I think we go with Cleary and hope we don't face a situation where Morris is needed later in the year. But there is a respectable argument that you put Morris in then, burning his redshirt, so that he will be incrementally better preared to face that hypothetical late-season third-down you posited.
...convert him to WR.
I know there was no harm meant, but I feel it's really weird to have a topic titled "How to use Shane Morris"
He's not a thing to be used. He's a student athlete. I hope he gets every opportunity to help the team and his educations (on and off the field) that Michigan can provide and I'll trust the coaches to decide how that can happen.
"You're an asset... an expendable asset. I used you to get the job done."
and get him all the garbage-time reps you can.
You've got to make the 2nd best QB the backup. If Morris is better than Cleary then he should play. He will have at least 2 years as a starter no matter what, so burning his redshirt isn't exactly the same burning Gardner's, who was only one year behind Denard. I don't think sacrificing success now for hypothetical success down the road is a great idea, we don't have any idea what will happen in four years.
1. If DG goes pro after 2013, Shane needs game experience.
2. DG needs competition to keep improving.
3. If DG stays, no guarantee Shane beats Wilton or other hot recruits for 3 seasons.
4. Next 2 seasons are critical for UM - cannot risk a disaster like Lincoln 2012.
Worth the immediate benefit to not "save" him for 2017 season.
Honest question, why does he "need" game experience? Didn't a RS freshmen just win the Heisman last year? If Gardner goes down and Shane is the clear #2 then you play him no doubt, but I question how valuable handing the ball 10 times to Justice Hayes and Dennis Norfleet is going to be for Morris's development.
If Michigan continues to recruit one good QB per season (and why wouldn't they?) then what's the sense in saving him? We might not need him for the fifth year if a fourth year Speight is good, or a third year so-and-so elite QB that we pick up next cycle is good. Of course, our ability to pull these top QBs depends in part on winning games now. If Morris can help do that, the choice to me is obvious.
There's no way that DG goes pro after the 2013 season. He was so stoked to get a fifth year and he only has 5 (?) starts...We're also setting up to have a monster 2014 year if you ask me...
As much as I would like to see them redshirt him in my head I'm thinking a I'm sitting watching the game with all the hype dying down becaus of itbeing a blowout the bam here comes Shane and all the stands are hype again it would be awesome. I would be just as fired up as I was at the beginning of the gm. I know we've had a lot of gd recruits lately but I feel like Shane had a lol to do with that. He's my favorite recruit since mallett and then he left so blah.
It's a Caris Levert delimma on the football field. I'm gonna use NCAA style ratings to support my opinion.
Let's say DG is a 93, Morris is a 75 and Cleary a 73. Probably worth keeping the reshirt on Morris since Cleary isn't a huge step down and we hopefully won't need to use him outside of junk time and a series here or there.
Now let's say Morris is a 85 and Cleary is a 73. We want to win now, and if Morris earned the backup job and gives us a better chance to win then by all means we should play him. He'd still be the heir to the QB job as a Junior and Senior, and two years of being starting QB at Michigan is no small feat. You might counter with, "but wouldn't it be better to have him for three?" Well, Wilton Speight, and current 15 year olds with lasers will be around by then.
The program needs four years of good QB play from Shane Morris. If the clock needs to start now, so be it. He'll be well-seasoned as a backup when his number is called as a Junior. Future QB commits will help you forget about that "wasted" 5th year.
Another variable is the real possibility that Devin Gardner leave for the NFL after this year. Do I expect him to? No. But he has incredible potential and if he puts together a great year (complete with B10 Championship) then I couldn't fault a guy who already has his Michigan degree for leaving if his stock dictates it. It would be nice to have some measure of experience behind him in case that scenario unfolds.
(note: I lost like 20,000 points for heavly criticizing Hoke/Borges for not having a real backup quarterback ready against Nebraska, so I am treading lightly here)
If Morris is our second best QB, and he is needed, he must be ready be ready.. How different would last year have been if a mildly prepared Gardner steps in agains t Nebraska, instead of the deer in the headlights show Bellomy put on?
Morris has great potential, but Speight is right behind him, and somehow I suspect Hoke will continue to recruit well and keep the QB pipline full. Arent we about due to recruit another CA QB to get on line?
Your MGoPoints are awesome!
the other 979,595 points for?
Hoke's philosophy is to let players compete and whoever is the best will play regardless of class year. Morris may have the better physical talent but Cleary is more familiar with Borges' system. Let them compete in Fall practice and Borges will decide who gives "The Team, The Team, The Team" the best chance to win if called upon.
"The real question, then, is whether you think of burning Morris's redshirt as inevitable (therefore, you might as well burn it immediately), or possibly avoidable (therefore, you should avoid it as long as you can)."
I'd say the real question was whether Brian Cleary proves he can run the team, at least for short stretches. He should get a chance against Central, not against ND, but yes against Akron and Connecticut, and maybe even Minnesota. If Brian gets enough game experience early in the season for the coaches to evaluate whether he can do the job, the coaches can decide either Brian can handle it or Morris has to get in right away, and take some snaps, and be ready if Devin goes down.
My guess is the coaches will do everything possible to avoid buring Morris's redshirt. But if Shane shows well in practice and Brian shows he's not quite up to the task, Brady will have no choice but to play Shane this fall.
Devin has already graduated having earned his degree in 3 years. There is no guarantee that he'll return for his 2nd year of eligibility if he has a terrific season this fall. In fact, I'd be surprised if he stayed, because I think he'll be wonderful with the Oline an the receivers to help him.
that if you don't use Morris, you run the risk of having him have a Bellomy-like experience if/when he has to play in a real game that matters. Obviously, the Nebraska game was just one game, but it didn't inspire tons of confidence in Bellomy, and makes me shy away from really using him as a serious backup. At any rate, if you are fairly sure the walkon will never be a serious option past this year, you want to give the guy you think will (Morris) as much time to play the position as possible, meaning you might throw him in this year when it's a low pressure situation to give him the experience.
EDIT: Looking at our schedule next year, Morris would get garbage time in at least the CMU, Akron, UConn, Minnesota, and Indiana games next year, and maybe even Penn State, so that's at least five games he could play a quarter or so in.
I would not sleep on Indiana. I am not saying they are going to a bowl or anything but they took Ohio to 52-49 or something like that last year and finally have a legit QB. I would not consider that a cakewalk anymore. And PSU will never be a cakewalk. Instead another 38-0 Notre Dame game will be a good place to get mop up duty ;)
Move him to D-Line. I would love to see Morris and Frank Clark rushing the QB.
The title is a bit risqué, don't ya think!
Let the coaches decide rather than people who won't even see him practice or get a feel for how he grasps the offense make any more moronic comments about anoint him the chosen one.
I know everyone likes the young man, but he is 18 and needs time to mature as a human and player. Lets give him that. He is not, and I repeat he is not Drew Henson or Chad Henne. Ceiling, possibly better, but only with time and reps. He will look pretty rough come August 15th no matter what.
I will give you Drew Henson but no one saw ahead of time what Henne would do. He was not a super duper type recruit that everyone was talking about. If not for the Guiterez (sp?) situation Henne would have never seen the field his freshman year. You just never know with these kids how they will react and perform. Oregon and other teams are now regularly throwing out frosh QBs with decent success.