It's "interesting" how Joe Dumars' son is one of his financial consultants after his father decided not to draft him.
It's "interesting" how Joe Dumars' son is one of his financial consultants after his father decided not to draft him.
Why is it ironic?
I'm guessing because the elder Dumars did such a poor job managing the Pistons' cap space?
Makes sense. Joe Dumars mismanaged the Pistons for the last few years, so his son must be a moron.
"Here's the key to financial success - find something that's available on the open market and that no one wants, then, let everyone know that you're desperate and that you'll pay double what anyone else is offering. You'll win every time."
--Teaser from Chapter 1 of Joe Dumars' new book, "The Art of the Deal: How to Underpay while Overpaying" which the NBA Players Association has called "The Bible..a must read" for all NBA GM's
In all fairness to Joe, he was brilliant when he first got into the league. After he built the NBA Championship team from pretty much nothing and set Orlando back seven years with the Grant Hill sign and trade, nobody in the NBA would give him a bona fide offer anymore in fear of being the next Orlando Magic.
So now, everyone in the league lowballs the Pistons in any trade talks. Worse yet, it's not like Detroit is the kind of city that has free agents lining up for privilege of living there.
When nobody wants to trade with you and FA's don't want to play in your city, it's a bit tough to get the job done.
Fair points, but can't the same be said about Dombrowski? He wins trades 90% of the time, you'd think teams would be reluctant to trade with him since he bends them over a barrel every time. However, some teams still decide to do so and DD still wins.
Although, comparing baseball and basketball trades and free agency isn't really fair with how different the markets and minor league systems are.
The "no free agent will play in your City" thing is overplayed. The Tigers and Red Wings prove that free agents will come to Detroit. The City itself has well documented issues. However, the metro-area as a whole (where most pro-athletes actually live) is very nice. The media is generally respectful of athlete's privacy, and the City has great sports fans. If the organization has its crap together, has won or will win, and is willing to pay FAs will come the Detroit.
Everything you said, I agree with, except that in basketball, I think there's certainly something to the idea that a lot of free agents prefer to be in more glamorous locations. Hockey and baseball players are a different breed; hockey players in particular aren't nearly as interested in the club scene. A lot of basketball players are interested in building a personal brand. They want to sell shoes, clothes, start a rap label, whatever. And if you want to do that you're better off in Brooklyn or Miami or LA or as close as you can get.
I appreciate that there certainly are NBAers who want different things - more stable family life, good organization, etc. On the other hand, Chris Paul wanted to go to LA so bad he forced a trade to the Clippers when he couldn't go to the Lakers. There is no way a franchise like the Clippers would've become a title contender if they were in the Midwest. They would've just bumbled along playing crappy basketball for decades.
This just seems like some stereotyping not based in actual facts. How's Indiana good? How's OKC good? How do the Knicks continually suck? Yes, a few players have complained about going to a place like Milwaukee, but that's rare and I've never heard someone say that about Detroit. It's not like free agents only ever sign with the huge coastal cities. And anyway, a place like Detroit would be great for making a rap label.
Did Chris Paul say he wanted to be traded so he could go to a big market team? I'm guessing it had more to do with being unhappy how things were run.
What I didn't say was that being in an unfashionable location keeps you from winning even if you have a quality organization. Incidentally, nearly every Pacer was drafted by the team or traded for. Even more so for OKC - almost that whole team was drafted by that organization.
Yeah, those aren't great examples. Name for me the big free agents who have picked Indiana or OKC lately. Now name the big name free agents who have picked either LA team, Miami, Boston, Brooklyn, etc.
Baseball and hockey are different. Detroit is a major hockey town in every way. The weather is also less of a deterrent because the northern cities have more fans and most of the players are from cold weather places. And baseball is uncapped, and Detroit is a team willing to spend, which helps us keep the guys we trade for, and allows us to trade for big contracts that other teams shy away from.
I don't really buy the "couldn't trade because of the Grant Hill deal." Denver was willing to trade Iverson for Billups. Besides, the Hill trade was more of a free agency thig then a trade. I think most NBA observers would say Orlando was stupid for giving up anything to be able to pay Grant Hill more money than he was probably willing to take as a straight up free agency signing. Sure, Dumars gets credit for a good eye in taking Wallace, but I don't see this as everyone saying "oooh, beware of that crafty Dumars guy." I will give Dumars the Rasheed trade, but I still don't see how that translates into nobody wanting to deal with him.
Maybe some FAs don't want to come to Detroit, and I'd agree that the Pistons were never in on the biggest signings of the 2009 class, but that shouldn't give him a pass for the contracts handed out to Gordon and Villanueva or some of his extensions like Rip Hamilton.
It's hard not to look back on Dumars' time and think that maybe he got a bit lucky putting that first contender together. Minnesota didn't want to resign Billups. Portland had grown tired of Rasheed. Blowing the Darko pick may have actually been a blessing to that particular team. He was also unlucky in that the team really should have had at least one more title, which would certainly have helped his rep. And some of his moves were defensible parts of a seemingly good plan. But everything that happened after the Billups-AI trade makes it hard to put too much faith in the fact that Dumars was at any point an excellent executive.
Why would you introduce race into this discussion, of all discussions?
He looked stupid right off the bat and has behaved in an increasingly shameful manner, so he's trying to sabotage his own thread and get it locked and the comments removed to salvage dignity.
Yes, he clearly was -- but wow, this is Michigan, so it shouldn't have gone way over everyone's heads like that. Pretty sure Shakey Jake was just trying to refer to the person who made note of his typo as being a Nazi in a clever way. Apparently too clever for this board -- keep it simple, Jake, be very literal when Timmaayy's around so he doesn't end up making a stink (speaking of South Park, this kinda reminds of when Stan's dad or whoever has a bad idea and gets the whole town to go along with it by being all dramatic).
Really, Timmaaayy? You're gonna neg me because you're embarassed about attacking someone because you didn't get their joke? That's really, really pathetic...
Why do people say "the fuck" like you just typed? I don't get it. Is that some cool, new, hip slang term?
It seems like you're just dreaming of a nice vacation to Bolivia. There's no way anyone can unintentionally self-sabotage so much.
Because it's like rain on your wedding day.
Your link is not clickable.
Since it's only one Joe Dumars it would be Joe Dumars's.
I've noticed OP making a lot of threads lately. At the very least, you can try to be better at it....your link isn't working
Shakey - can you drop me a quick line with the schedule for the rest of today's threads you'll be posting? I'm going to be in a meeting here at work from about 1:30-3:00 but I can probably jump out for a bit if your 2:00pm thread is a good one.
Thanks - I'll hang up and listen.
ready for your meeting mGrowOld.
It seems like Trey is getting good advice. He should make enough money, if invested wisely and conservatively, where he should be set for life or at least have a very nice income stream.
It takes discipline to not get caught up in the "bling" that so many pro athletes succumb to.
Don't be That Guy and you won't receive ire.
Unfortunately, you and a few other posters insist on being That Guy all day, every day.
Don't be That Guy while assuming the personage of a beloved and fondly remembered Ann Arbor institution. It's just going to make the board even angrier.
He is definitely That Guy. I bet he doesn't even like CrossFit.
*puts on mod cap*
While efforts to provide content in what is typically a slow time are usually appreciated, it does get to a point where volume posting such as this either A) tends to suffer in quality, or B) drowns out more relevant material regarding Michigan athletics. In this case, it is starting to be a bit of both, so the recommendation I would have have is to simply slow down and be a little more judicious regarding what might be threadworthy. After all, being OT Season here doesn't mean everything that is OT will remain on the board.
To be fair to the OP, the article itself actually is a good read. The documentary "Broke" was both illuminating and svery sad and it is great to see young players like Trey take steps to be financially responsible in a league that writes some impressive checks.
I think we all read the blog for not only the content, but also for teh people posting. You learn, in a rather short amount of time, who has an agenda, who tends to be knowledgeable, and who is here just to make people upset.
I have never really understood the last group of people, but unfortunately they exist in every section of America and MGO is certainly not immune.
Also, totally agree that "Broke" was a very insightful and heartbreaking. I still cannot think of Sprewell without imagining him trying to sell his yacht after going broke.
Well when you take an unnecessary shot at the people who are helping Burke be financially responsible, don't expect much in the way of pleasantries being directed at you. So there's a connection between Burke being responsible and Joe Dumars passing over him in the draft? Big deal. Who cares. The article itself is interesting and worth a read; the subject line you posted deserves to be negged to death.
You wait until the next time I see my old high school guidance counselor!
You max out the tax-deductible portion after your first paycheck
Is there a limit? Like my company will match up to 4%. Then again, 4% of even one million puts you way over the max so it likely won't matter.
Man tough crowd today. The article actually is somewhat interesting.
It is a good article. I didn't have anything negative to say until dude decided to bring race into this thread, which... why? Just why?
Because that's what Shakey Jake does.
Dude, he called somebody a grammar nazi. He just did it in an indirect way, attempting to be clever. You made a scene about it because the word "race" was in the terms he used. If anyone brought race into it, it was you getting all mad about race being brought into a thread for which it really wasn't. Sharpen up, buddy.
Wait, you seriously negged me because I made you feel embarassed that you were being a dumb asshole because you didn't get someone's joke? I stood up for somebody against a mob that was in the wrong. My balls are obviously bigger than your brains.
It's fine to defend the alternative intepretation, and I may have been in the wrong there and I apologize if that is so, but the punishment for Shakey Jake was based on several other factors as well. As for yours, in the spirit of trying to create a more amiable community, let's try to refrain from calling users "a dumb asshole" in the future, please? That's hardly polite.
I don't like bullying, and I will stand up to them (as well as to the moderators who join in with them and permit them to have a forum for their bullying).
If you haven't noticed, it is often this same group of posters that derail threads by specifically attacking individual posters who write something they dislike with a series of posts against them (and supporting each other in going against them), and gang-negging them. It's group bullying, and it's obnoxious. The guy's exactly what I called him.
I'll proudly consider these negative points a badge of honor for doing the right thing on the internet (instead of just masterbating to porn this time).
Lets try this out. I didn't do any of the things you're saying that I did, other than apparently missing the joke (sort of clever I will admit, but in very poor taste). I asked why he would bring race into the conversation, that's it, nothing more. I didn't carry it on, didn't critique anything else, nor did I downvote the op. But I'm the "dumb asshole"...
Oh, and I amost never contribute to the hive-mind mentality that pervades message boards everywhere. I don't like it, and I don't do it. So there.
Well, obviously still insisting that the joke was "in poor taste" shows you're feeling defensive, so at least I conveyed being the one on the other end of criticism isn't fun, so hopefully that sticks with you.
And it really wasn't in poor taste. The joke that was made can be spelled out as follows: "Well, since you're being a grammar nazi, I'm going to gibe you and point it out by suggesting you may share other undersireable traits that are very obviously associated with nazis." There's really not another reasonable way of interpreting it.
Also, this whole reaction (or as you frame it, "asked why he would bring race into the conversation, nothing more") was just absurd and over the top: "The fuck? Why would you introduce race into this discussion, of all discussions?" I mean, the comment was nowhere near any part of any ongoing discussion in any part of this thread. It was a specifically directed to a single quick reply directly to the original post that didn't have anything to do with any discussion. There really wasn't any introducing of anything to any "discussion." And even if he'd said, "well, I bet you hate black people," it still wouldn't have been a reply to or had any relation to any actual discussion otherwise going on elsewhere in the thread.
Plus, honestly, if you actually think the issue of whether wanting racially pure blood lines is right or wrong is something that ciould be brought forward as a reasonable topic for debate that would throw off from a primary topic of discussion, that's on you.
But, jeez, I guess the real harm is pointing out that dedicating half a thread to responding to a misinterpretation of some small thing that had no impact is worthy of -1500 points. And right when I was thisclose to cashing in for a boom box.
To be fair, Shakey Jake has made a whole bunch of controvsersial posts regarding race the past few weeks. It isn't all that big of a leap to think he's doing it again.
Maybe I'm not on the board enough -- I've just noticed Shakey Jake as being an irreverent poster. He definitely tried to antagonize here after the fact in response to having people go after him, but I guess the lesson there is don't bring a group to fight the weird girl who wants to first show you her chicken coop unless you're looking to get conked in the head with a shovel. Just let her be.
"Trey Burke met Sillman and Dumars while attending the University of Michigan. Both are alums of the Ross Graduate School of Business in Ann Arbor."
So, anyone else see the irony in an article about Trey's fiscal responsibility, yet the first picture is of him getting into his brand new Porsche Panamera?
If I learned one thing from the documentary 'Broke', and I forget who actually said this in the documentary, but that sports isn't a career; it's just good head start. Taking that money at the beginning of his career and investing it (hopefully) wisely will ensure financial security in the future and help protect him from possible basketball playing ending injuries.
Shakey Jake at time of thread post: 970 mgopoints
Shakey Jake currently: -899659 mgopoints
He got what he deserved.
This is a nice recap! I saw a bunch of TMZ like posts from SJ and then he's in Bolivia today.
So, just to get it right, one OP gets you a handful of points. Eight posts in a day crashes the computer and you wake up in Bolivia.
Pigs get fat; hogs get slaughtered!
That the Burkes did a fine job raising Trey and that he has followed their lead with appropriate financial management as assisted by the management company.
Let's hope that he continues in that manner throughout his career. One never knows how short that career can be. Stuff happens that leads to no more playing time.
The percentages of NFL and NBA players that ultimately have financial problems is stunning.
It sure was a strange post. Jake may be setting a record.
Shakey Jake, can't stop won't stop
I worked with someone who dated a Detroit Lion in the early 90s. She said that she knew for a fact that a number of the players she knew are now broke and live on government assistance. She also said that others used their football money as a springboard and made more money in business than in sports. This article shows that Trey is on the better of those paths. Good for him.
I actually think the Jordan Dumars connection makes total sense. Jordan was a DI level player and presumably learned about the business side of sports from his father. It seems that once he realized that the NBA wasn't in his future, he developed a solid plan of his own. He studied finance at a damn good B-school, made the most of his connections and started a managmenet company for pro-athletes. He is in a unique position to target a very well to-do niche that needs his services and can pay for them. I bet that this is a very tough niche to break into, but Dumars was uniquely positioned. Trey also knew him from Michigan so it is a very logical connection. I bet they both do very well.
UM retirement matching is better than the NBA-- the only thing I took from this article.
Shakey gonna Jake.
Also, I love it when I read an article that doesn't surprise me in the least (that Trey and his pops have good heads on their shoulders) but is still worth every second of reading.
No more threads from Shakey Jake!
You clearly weren't following board rules and you were just trolling everyone. I'm glad you're at negative forever.
"The younger Burke’s rookie salary is about $2.4 million, but his monthly budget for spending money is about $5,000. He admits that having access to so much money is exciting, but it also requires discipline."
Maintain this and he'll be just fine.
Was on Trey's financial advisory team before he ever got drafted. Those two and another dude were on Bloomberg Works a couple weeks before draft day last year talking about managing generational wealth and whatnot.
With that connection, I was positive Trey was going to be a Piston when they were on the clock and he was in the green room. Maybe working with JoeD's son is part of what sealed his fate in not coming here after all.
...and draft Burke like I, the internet know it all, said...and he might have his job right now. Hell, he might be watching his team knock off the Pacers and get to the Conference Finals ala the Wizards.
(And trade Knight and co for a SG)
Your last sentence was my thought when the Pistons didn't draft him -- that Dumars might have wanted to avoid raising the question of whether nepotism played a role in his draft decision. KCP was the player I was hoping they'd draft when I thought Burke wouldn't be available when they picked, so I wasn't that unhappy with the pick when it was made, and he's not a bust by any means, but man, Burke's game would go so well with our bigs.
And I think the Jennings trade would've made us that much better too -- 2 scoring PGs is a better chemistry balance for a backcourt than 1 scoring PG and a traditional SG (I always thought we played better with Billups/Hunter than Billups/Hamilton or obviously Iverson/Hamilton, and, while they were a pretty bad combo on D, Hamilton played better with Arroyo), and 2 scoring PGs is what GMs should be going for in today's game, since both good pure PGs and efficient straight scoring guards are so hard to come by and thus require big salary cap hits. Our big frontcourt was perfect for offsetting a small backcourt too (and would've required less from Smith on the perimeter, which is a clear less is more).