How much attention should RR show the D?

Submitted by dahblue on

 

An interesting strain of questioning seems to be developing to which I don't know the answer and wonder if anyone here has good insight...How involved are most head coaches with their non-strength side of the ball?  Does a "defensive wizard" ignore the offense?  Do "offensive masters" hand off the defense?  What's normal?

Check out this from AnnArbor.com today from RR's press conference:

Rodriguez said he will personally spend 15 to 20 minutes with Michigan's defense Monday in practice.

And, this quote that Tim presented from RR's presser:

"I'll probably spend a little bit of time with them today. Our defensive staff I think knows what we've gotta do."

The defensive staff "knows what we've gotta do"?  15 to 20 minutes?  That's it?  Your defense is ranked #100 out of #120 teams and you show you concern by spending 15 to 20 minutes with them?  How much time was he spending before?  5 minutes?  2?  Maybe we're losing so many players on defense (1/3 of RR's recruits) because the head coach is an absentee manager?  Or...maybe that's standard practice.  I guess, if the defense were doing well, it's a question that no one would care about.  Since our defense is (and has been) poor, I'd imagine that the coach would want to be very involved.  If anyone has good insight, I imagine I'm not the only one interesting in learning.

dahblue

September 20th, 2010 at 5:41 PM ^

What does Harbaugh have to do with this?  I think the fact that you got +'s for this post is a shame.  It's a sad state of affairs when a guy asks a legit question and in response hears the tremendously weak and misplaced insults of a child.  

BigBlue02

September 20th, 2010 at 8:55 PM ^

Dahblue, I think I am pushing you up through the ranks to neg on sight status. I have become quite annoyed with you asking over and over why RichRod can't take a defense full of freshmen, sophomores, and walk-ons and make them amazing. It takes a lot to get to that point from me....I mean shit, I don't even do that with the few MSU fans and OSU fans on here. Congrats douchebag. It might be time to take the tired routine over to the freep or mlive where those thoughts will be better accepted by trolls like yourself.

dahblue

September 20th, 2010 at 10:52 PM ^

At no time did I ask why RR can't make a young defense "amazing".  I asked how much time a head coach spends with his "non-strength" side of the ball.  What's the problem with that question?  I did get one or two fact-based responses, like the one fron dennisblunden who gave good insight into his experience with his college football coach.  That's the type of info I was looking for.  If someone just barked about the coach being the man and whatnot...well, that tends not to be as helpful. 

Most comments, for whatever reason, focused only on personal attacks with extremely awesome comments calling me a "liar" (for mixing up DII and D-IAA) and "douchebag".  I've got no gripes with the negs.  Do whatever makes you warm and fuzzy and never let facts get in your way.

BigBlue02

September 21st, 2010 at 12:12 AM ^

Actually, at every chance you've gotten in the last 2 days you have brought up how RichRod only cares about the offense and how RichRod has the defense at OMG#100 in the nation. Then, when people give you the answer you so desperately were looking for (since in your OP, you definitely can't see an angle in pointing out why you think RichRod needs to spend more time with the D), you go on to suggest the exact opposite of what they are suggesting. If, as you suggest, you honestly didn't know the answer to your question, why on earth would you take half your original post framing RichRod's quotes in a negative way? If you truly didn't already have your mind made up, you wouldn't suggest numerous times that RichRod needs to spend more than 20 minutes with the defense. This is both why you are a douchebag and a liar. But those are just those pesky facts you were talking about.

MGoMike

September 21st, 2010 at 1:46 AM ^

How about we all calm down a bit. As fans there is not a whole lot we can do at this point but support the team. Let's not digress in "Notre Dame fan mode," where you consistently nitpick your coach and current players, and exhibit an all around douchebaggery that is despicable.

CRex

September 20th, 2010 at 4:58 PM ^

RR was hired primarily based off the offensive credits on his resume.  WVU definitely had good defenses in his tenure, but his teams lived off the idea of outscoring the other guys, not the Lloyd Carr "Punt, get field position and play defense" school of thought.

He's the head coach and all and as such the defense is his ultimate responsibility, but I don't see what he can teach the defense that the D-Coord and position coaches can't.  RR is an offensive guru more so than a defensive one in my mind.  

If anything RR should take over special teams and let Gibson focus solely on D-Backs. 

dahblue

September 20th, 2010 at 5:03 PM ^

I guess I would think that even if he can't "teach" as much as a DC, he could learn a good amount merely by paying more attention to that side.  Maybe he could get a sense of why we're losing players?  Maybe he could get a feel for other non-strategy points that a manager (of anything from a business to a sports team) should have his pulse on?  Or...maybe that's naive and he's got too many other things to deal with?

CRex

September 20th, 2010 at 5:09 PM ^

I would think that most of the non strategy stuff could be handled outside of practice.  I'm glad he's paying attention, but what do you think he could gain/contribute by hovering over Greg's shoulder?  Keep in mind, practice time is limited in college, unlike the pros.  So if he's over watching the defense that's less time he has to spend on Denard and the offense.  I feel like we get more value when RR spends time working with Denard and Devin.  

dahblue

September 20th, 2010 at 5:17 PM ^

How long is practice?  Roughly 2 hours, maybe?  So, I don't think spending about 12% of that time is so much.  But, what did he do prior to this week?  Nothing at all?  2%?  

Also, he has an OC.  Does he hover over that shoulder?  He's the head coach.  He should hover wherever he wants.

CRex

September 20th, 2010 at 5:30 PM ^

 

It all depends on perspective.  When I think of our team I think of the fact that we don't have a stable running game and our QB depth chart is made up of two sophomores and a true freshman.  RR is known as the best overall offensive mind on the team.  He's credited with perfecting this flavor of the spread and while our OC and others are no slouches, RR is seen as the overall architect of the offense.  He's also seen as one of Pat White's most important mentors and having done a lot to develop Pat White.  Given those variables, it seems reasonable RR spends the majority of his time with the offense.  Be it 88%, 85%, 90% or whatever he feels he needs to do.  

You're right, he should hover where he wants and he seems to want to hover mostly around the offense.  Who are we to second guess him?

jmblue

September 20th, 2010 at 5:47 PM ^

All coaches, except maybe a few figurehead types like JoePa, have one side of the ball that they specialize in.  On that side of the ball, the HC is essentially the real coordinator.  On the other side of the ball, the coordinator essentially is autonomous.  

Bo and Moeller were our de facto OCs; Carr was our de facto DC.  (Jim Herrmann used to take a lot of flack for his passive defenses, but that really was Carr's preference, not his.)Today, RR is our real offensive coordinator.  He calls the plays.  Magee helps to come up with the gameplan and offers suggestions, but RR has the final say.  On the other side, Gerg basically does what he wants. 

The big challenge for any HC is to find the right guy to run the other side of the ball.  Jim Tressel has done a great job finding quality DCs (believe it or not, Tressel is an offensive guy).  Hopefully Gerg is in fact the right fit for us.   

RockinLoud

September 21st, 2010 at 2:40 AM ^

I actually remember reading that Magee calls the plays but RR can overrule if need be.  Too tired to look for the link.

Also, you're right on about the HC being primarily on one side.  Living in Husker land Bo Pelini is like RR is, except he's a D guy and the OC pretty much does what he wants.  Just interesting to see the general similarities coupled with the specific differences in two of the greatest football programs with new coaches in their 3rd year.

dennisblundon

September 20th, 2010 at 4:58 PM ^

It is standard practice. In college my head coach was an offensive specialist and spent little, if any time with the defense. What I imagine the 15 minutes is going to consist of is a good ass chewing followed with a very spirited practice. Basically he will let them know that no one is guaranteed a starting spot from week to week.

dennisblundon

September 20th, 2010 at 5:22 PM ^

Basically the occasional ass chewing when needed. Coaches have egos too and generally try to stay out of one another's way. In high school many players go both ways in college it's not that way. In practice you wear different colored jerseys and it is almost like you have two head coaches. The offense and defense break off into individual drills and really can't be over seen by one coach. When you scrimmage in practice one is in the defensive huddle and the other in the offensive. The head coach in our case only gets involved when effort and concentration are the issue.

trueblue262

September 20th, 2010 at 5:00 PM ^

did say that he "loves RR" Vlad Emelien.  I am sure there will be alot of overanalyzing going on in the days to come. But it is concerning that the head coach only spends that much time with the defense. I guess you could say we have 2 head caoches

Huss

September 20th, 2010 at 5:07 PM ^

Oh why would you want a guy with little defensive coaching experience telling our defense what to do?



Coaches stay out of each others areas of expertise.  Do you know why he is even giving the defense 15-20 minutes of his time?  To chew them the fuck out and motivate them to get better against Bowling Green.  What else can he do?  Urban Meyer doesn't do shit with his defense.  Nick Saban doesn't do shit with his offense.  Les Miles just shits up and down the sideline and doesn't coach anyone.  It's normal.

dahblue

September 20th, 2010 at 5:19 PM ^

Should he tell the defense what to do?  Maybe, but not necessarily.  Should he spend enough time with them to be fully involved with the team and sense any problems that his DC might miss?  I would think so.  A boss of any sort that isn't involved is a boss who will miss correctable problems.

Also, if you have any links or sourcing on the Saban/Meyer claims, please share it.  That's kinda what I'm looking for so that I can get a better sense of normal.

TheLastHarbaugh

September 20th, 2010 at 5:33 PM ^

Good bosses know their weak points, and how to delegate tasks to others who are far more qualified in certain areas of expertise. They also stay out of the hair of their employees, and don't micromanage.

Had our Frosh Punter not fumbled away a snap, and our Frosh Safety not fumbled an INT, no one would be talking about this shit right now.

dahblue

September 20th, 2010 at 5:44 PM ^

I guess the point is finding the line between micromanaging and neglecting.  That's why I was asking for details from those who would know more than I.  In any event, even without those two flubs you mentioned, we still would've given up ~400 yards to a D-II school and the same questions would be asked.

chitownblue2

September 20th, 2010 at 5:56 PM ^

You're going to say "it doesn't matter", but this is how you tend to insidiously work on the margins of truth.

It wasn't a D-II school. You know this, you're just overplaying your hand. If you want to make the case he's doing the wrong thing, you're better off using facts, and not embellished lies.

dahblue

September 20th, 2010 at 6:08 PM ^

Wait...really...?  Are you bothered that I didn't say they're a FCS school or whatever they're called now?  Whatever you want to call the division, I think it's the same FCS/DII/whatever that Delaware St was in.  Does that make any difference?  No.  What "lie" are you talking about???

We have been terrible on the D side and I'm curious to know how involved a normal coach is with such things.  Holy shit some folks are sen-si-tive.

dahblue

September 20th, 2010 at 6:35 PM ^

Really?  So, I mistook DII for I-AA/FCS and that is a "lie"?  Does it even really matter?  DII or I-AA?  Of course not.  Hell, even the radio guys confuse that every time they talk about one of these lesser division teams.  Say whatever you want about my positions and whatnot, but to call me a "liar" for mixing up DII and IAA?  That's pretty shitty.  Next time, just post a picture of a cat like one of these other retards.

Monocle Smile

September 20th, 2010 at 7:02 PM ^

is the stuff between your ears.

You seem to think you know more about Michigan football than Rich Rod, yet you don't even know the difference between DII and FCS. Furthermore, you don't even CARE what the difference it because "it doesn't matter" yet somehow the garbage you come out with DOES matter. Chitownblue has you all figured out.

With any luck, you'll do something stupid enough to get banned.

remdies

September 20th, 2010 at 7:57 PM ^

I have a hard time believing that our head coach who hasn't slept 3 straight hours in years because he feels like he could be using that time to watch film is neglecting anything that has to do with improving our football team.

Bill in Birmingham

September 20th, 2010 at 5:56 PM ^

I do not have links or sources, but living in the middle of SEC country, there is very little I hear other than Alabama, Auburn and Florida. The reporting on Saban is non-stop around here, including the status of his latest bowel movement. He is a defensive coach and knows it. His spends most of his time not just with the defense, but specifically with the defensive backs (his primary area of expertise). He is notoriously hard on assistants, but when he finds an OC he believes in, he lets them run the show. Meyer, as others have said, is an offensive guy. He focuses on his version of the spread and does it very well. He had a really good DC, Charley Strong, who just got the Louisville HC job. Meyer relied on Strong. Spurrier has always relied on on his DC. He's done pretty well. The feedback you have been getting is sound.

ish

September 20th, 2010 at 5:15 PM ^

RR is primarily an offensive coach.  he should spend the amount of time w/ the defense that he thinks may affect some improvement.  if that's but 3 hours, than that's what he should spend.  if he thinks spending 30 minutes w/ them will do just as much good as 3 days, then 30 minutes it is.

JC3

September 20th, 2010 at 5:27 PM ^

The last time RR got seriously involved with the D.. Purdue 2008. That was a disaster. Love the dude, he's a great offensive coach, but he's just giving a pep talk. He knows enough schematically because A. He's a head coach and B. He has to read defenses to teach offense. With that being said, he's not getting real involved. No worries. 

DenverRob

September 20th, 2010 at 5:33 PM ^

I think that there is a certain mentality with any head coach that resembles an authoritarian figure. A " get this right or go talk to RR."

Kind of like your dad after a bad report card when you are young. Of course you go to your mom first to make it easier on yourself.

Like Chris Rock said "aint nothing scarier than I'M GONNA TELL YOUR DADDY."

chitownblue2

September 20th, 2010 at 5:53 PM ^

Is now when we take an off-hand comment he made at the presser and make a BIG DEAL about it?

What's the point in getting VERY CONCERNED about how he spends his time? If we lose, he fails, and he's fired. If we win, he continues. Our thought on what constitutes "the right decision" doesn't matter. At all.

dahblue

September 20th, 2010 at 6:13 PM ^

So if "our thought on what constitutes the 'right decision' doesn't matter", why are you here?  Isn't this board all about what we did, what we're doing and what we should do?

While your ALL CAPS are sweet, they don't really contribute anything of value in answering the question.  People on this board have, for some time, been saying that RR doesn't bother with the D side of the ball.  Then, RR essentially confirms that.  I just asked if that's normal.  Why?  Because I don't know the answer.  The question applies whether RR is the coach or Monte Clark.  So, some folks have been helpful.  Others...not as much.

WolvinLA2

September 20th, 2010 at 7:12 PM ^

Please don't make it seem like you were just asking a question, because when people answered your question, you weren't satisfied.  If you really just wanted your question answered, when posters said "yep, that's pretty much the norm" you would have said "Oh OK, that's cool then" instead of insisting that RR is neglecting something, or now being a good boss based on the amount of time he spends on the defense.

You clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about, yet you persist.  I didn't mind you so much before, but you've convinced me otherwise today.  Can we get a banhammer?