How to get Notre Dame to join the BigTen
The BigTen has a available play which could land them their crown jewel of schools in Notre Dame.
Notre Dame will never join the Big East for football, but it needs the conference to facilitate their all non-revenue sports scheduling and financial incentives. The Big East, on the other hand, can survive without Notre Dame's presence in basketball, etc, but it might implode if one of their most important football schools were poached.
What the BigTen can do is inform the Big East that they're going to poach their most important school (Pitt/Syracuse/Rutgers), unless the Big East gives the Irish an ultimatum of joining for football or being kicked out in all sports. Now I don't think Notre Dame's athletic department can survive being independent in all varsity sports, so ND would be faced with the choice of fully joining the Big East or joining their Midwest brethren where they belong. Basically, it's help us get Notre Dame, or your football conference is done.
March 10th, 2010 at 12:11 PM ^
The big east wouldn't budge.
March 10th, 2010 at 12:13 PM ^
I'm not so sure:
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/1435/notre-da…
Notre Dame almost joined the BigTen in 2003 when the Big East was poached the first time. The whole conference is hanging by a thread.
March 10th, 2010 at 12:18 PM ^
pot of gold. Sorry I'd take someone else. How long do we have to offer them before we undestand the word NO.
Don't Leprechauns already have that?
March 10th, 2010 at 12:23 PM ^
To hell with Notre Dame
March 10th, 2010 at 12:26 PM ^
That horse is a squishy, bloody mess right now.
March 10th, 2010 at 12:34 PM ^
Colorado is the key to all of the conferences and the college presidents know it. If CU decides to bite the bullet on a about 9mil in short-term revenue (which is probably 50-50 at this point) and jump to the Pac-10 then the dominoes will fall. The Big Ten will go to Texas (which honestly I think the "preliminary" talks where about just this scenario) and together they will come up with a plan to the hook the horns. UT will say to the Texan Congress "we just lost the 2nd biggest media market in our conference, and for the good of the state we have to join the big ten." The legislator's will give the approval on one condition, that the big ten except Texas A & M as well. At that point the big ten will go to Notre Dame with an offer of 25 million dollars of annual revenue guaranteed a year. The Domers will have to make a tough to decision has to how much they really value their independence. If they say no then I think the big ten goes to Oklahoma so they can get a peace of the Red River Rivalry. Although it could be a number of schools that are their 2nd choice after Notre Dame. Honestly I don't think the Irish will turn down the big ten in this scenario, and it seems like they are already laying the PR ground work for such a move, especially considering some of the comments made by their AD in Manhattan yesterday.
Can I have some of what you're smoking?
Are you the kind of person that spends all day creating a machine to save you the two minutes it takes to walk to the mailbox for the mail? Because I can't think of a more convoluted scenario that doesn't involve an Expansion Fairy.
... the world is a perfect place where people never look at projected revenue. Just you watch though if Colorado announces they're going to the Pac-10. The Big Ten will go after Texas hard, and Texas will listen. Tell me what the next television market in the Big 12 is after Denver? We are no longer talking about simple conferences anymore, we are talking about television networks. That is a whole new ballgame. UT is a perfect fit (think like a TV executive), and Notre Dame with their national brand recognition is a great addition. The Big Ten made 22 million dollars per each school last year. With those numbers any university in the country will listen. Again if CU bolts...(which I think is 50-50).
Yes, but why does it take Colorado leaving to get the Big Ten to invite Texas if Texas is as perfect a fit as you say? Colorado is totally irrelevant.
And why would the Big Ten offer Notre Dame $25 million a year if the schools are making $22 million? That means either they're OK with Notre Dame making more money than they are (hint: they're not OK with that) or they think they can up their share to $25 million each with Notre Dame. That means Notre Dame is worth more than $33 million a year in revenue, and if Notre Dame is worth that, why would they take the Big Ten's offer of $25 million?
It's not like the idea of TV revenues driving the expansion is a revelation to any of us, but my point is, you're setting up a Rube Goldberg expansion machine here, which doesn't need to involve anything else at all if it's as natural and obvious as you say it is.
In his defense, adding the Texas/Oklahoma markets will probably push the Big Ten over the $25 mil/school mark, so that makes some sort of sense.
I can't defend anything else though.
Texas is not going to be able to leave the Big 12 as it is currently constituted b/c their state legislature will not have the political will to allow it. However, if Colorado leaves the Big 12 it will unbalance the conference, and cripple it financially (St. Louis would be the largest media market besides Texas, and if the horns say NO, guess who is next in line to say "yes please"?). Meaning that UT might have the political leverage necessary to leave the Big 12, although as I understand it they would have to take A & M as that would be part of the compromise to leave. The Big Ten can offer them 10 million dollars more per year, every school in America would take that (i guess besides the Domers)...if they could. Without political will they won't be allowed to. Colorado creates the political will.
As far as your number's go I don't know exactly what you are talking about. I was just using 25 million as a baseline minimum that would be offered to Notre Dame with the idea that Texas, and Texas A & M were hypothetically already in the fold. I'm sure a Super conference such as that with an expansive television network might even be able to offer more. The point being it would be difficult for Notre Dame to stare down all that money and still hold on to their independence. The title of the post was "How to get Notre Dame to join the BigTen." This was a scenario, and however convoluted you may think it, I believe is quite likely to go down if Coloardo goes to the Pac-10.
So you're saying that Colorado leaving is the only thing that would create "political will?"
You mean the millions of extra revenue and the chance to affiliate with the CIC and like-minded research institutions wouldn't be enough? The legislature somehow cares less about this than the Big 12 having Denver in its footprint?
Again: you've spent all day today building a machine that saves you two minutes tomorrow. Colorado is 100% irrelevant here.
Its Texas politics, and it is %100 true. And you have just made my case for me, I didn't even mention CIC, but it is a huge part of the game. Texas would be crazy not to join the Big Ten, every rational thinking person in the State can see that. The problem is that voters are not rational, they cling to things like tradition, and regionalism. If UT went to their legislature now they would be completely shot down (there is no way for the representatives to explain it to their constituency.) However if they go to them when the BIG 12 ship is sinking then they might (key would might) have enough political leverage to get out. Once Colorado is out, and you are staring down the possibility of losing St. Louis too, what incentive would UT have to split revenue with the likes of Iowa ST, and OK ST. UT would be better being independent. Colorado is the lynch pin to the whole deal, and like I said, all of the university presidents know that, if you want to except it or not.
You are insane.
I did not make your case for you by mentioning the CIC....don't be so narcissistic in thinking you're the only one that sees the benefits of adding Texas. But you are batshit insane if you think the Big Ten is gonna sit around waiting for - of all places - Colorado. Colorado is not the linchpin to anything, and the university presidents are not gonna sit around with their thumbs up their asses waiting for Colorado to get up off their duff and leave the Big 12. Seriously, why in hell are you so convinced that you have this window into the minds of Mary Sue Coleman and Gordon Gee, and how on earth do you see Colorado in there?
So the crux of your argument is that you don't like me? Strong position. I don't understand why you have taken this so personally but to each his own. To answer your question, the Pac-10's TV contract is up in 2012. If they were going to expand, it would have to be at that point in time. Colorado needs to give the Big 12 two years notice of leaving the conference or they will face a very steep revenue penalty. Nobody is sitting around waiting, these decisions will be made soon (in the next two years which is considered soon in TV world). If Colorado decides to stay the Big 12 will continue to exist, if not it will dissolve. Colorado is the lynch pin. Choose to disagree with me, but I'm not trying to be nefarious.
Denver is the #16 market
Other Big 12 markets
#5 DFW
#10 Houston
#21 St. Louis
#32 Kansas City, Mo
#37 San Antonio
#45 OKC
Denver leaving would be a big blow, but not a Big 12 killer if they swipe BYU and the #31 SLC market.
This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read.
A world a better place without projected revenue? How would companies ever be bought and sold? Please explain this to me. Thank you.
But wow wow wee wow that was hard to read...
Then what values does it have...
Really, though, ND is more likely than UT
Sorry meant piece.
March 10th, 2010 at 12:59 PM ^
If the b10 had him on their side, he'd get ND to come on down.
I actually think that's a pretty good idea.
i heard the only way to get them to join the b10 is to get them to say their name backwards. there are several ways to do this, like a rebus or a wordsearch puzzle.
As a Syracuse alum, I've been wanting the Big East to tell Notre Dame to shit or get off the pot. They need the Big East far more than we need them for a place to play for their other sports. The Big East rather than the Big Ten would allow them to keep their money rather than an even split (The Big East currently splits revenue based on results), but they bring very little to the table as a non-football participant, while reaping the benefits of having a relevant basketball team once again as they're in the Big East.
If Notre Dame went to the Big Ten, I'd be entirely fine with it. It won't happen, but I'd like to see Penn State and Maryland in the Big East. Add Army and Navy (every conference has its bottom-feeders, just look at Indiana and historically, Northwestern, though Navy can compete respectively today) and you have a 12-team league with some stability.
That, and it'll force the basketball-only schools out and I'd like to see Georgetown (or Villanova for that matter) go to the Atlantic 10 and disappear into mediocrity.
I think everyone should tell ND to shit or get off the pot. ND gets to "have its cake and eat it too," and other schools still enable their spoiled behavior.
As Yogi Berra might put it, Notre Dame needs to realize that "Notre Dame ain't Notre Dame anymore."
This isn't a new idea, and Frank the Tank already debunked it.
http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2010/02/28/choose-your-own-adventure-…
Best point being: you don't think the seven other Catholic schools in that conference are going to go along with that, do you? Every single one of them is a non-football member, most of whom don't even play football, and none of them give a shit about the conference's football side if it means losing association with the nation's leading Catholic institution.
Personally I would rather have Pitt, Mizzou, Texas, or some qualifying Big East school over Notre Dame.
I'll do my best at an analogy of why:
Notre Dame is like that chubby girl on MTV's Super Sweet 16 or Teen Cribs. She's been handed stuff her entire life, told she's beautiful by her parents, and sucked up to at school so kids can come over and use her pool.
At this point she's so out of touch with reality she's not even worth tapping. Sure, it can be alluring to bed her, but in the end it probably won't work out, and you'll never get a share of her parents' money. All you will be left with is some overweight bitch.
And that's what ND is - an overweight bitch.
The super hot non-slutty goody goody "friend" of the fat bitch?
Texas is the super-hot girl who doesn't put out until the second date.
I like that, although I'd change second date to third or later.
Texas, in my eyes, is the girl who knows she's super hot and uses it to the best of her abilities. She only sleeps with the upper echelon of men (in her eyes), which in this analogy is the state of Texas. Sometimes she will flirt / fool around with "losers" just to piss her dad off. In this case, the "loser" is the Big 10, and her dad is the Big 12.
(of course in no way is our conference a "loser", I'm just using that for the analogy of what people in Texas think of non-Texans)
With the big hair.
Texas is the ubber hott girl who gets everything she wants because she creates the market place.
I'd prefer over all other options that Syracuse go to the Big Ten, and screw Notre Dame.
Step 1. Collect Underpants.
Step 2. ???
Step 3. Profit!!!
The Big Ten schools are doing too much with ND already. Don't get me wrong, I love our football games with the Irish - but if we want them to join make them an all or nothing. No more footabll games, basketball, baseball, softball, soccer, tennis - all of the non-rev sports. Why does the B10 schedule these with them - it helps ND and avoids another MAC schoool. You want ND to join - The Commish should mandate that no school in the B10 can schedule ND in any sport until ND joins the conference. Kick the Irish out of the CCHA too. With 6 hockey schools in the B10 (ND joins) you won't need the CCHA anymore either. Just my thought.
The need the B10. The B10 is just fine without them. They'll be on the outside looking in without the BCS berth permanently soon enough. I hope that the Big East makes them get in/out very soon too.
Why do people keep insisting on begging ND to come in? They haven't been relevant in FB for several years except for the old guys that remember when they were good. Their basketball program isn't a world-beater either.
You seriously said that Notre Dame is the "crown jewel of schools"?????? Fuck Notre Dame. They belong in the Big East or on their own. The conference already has plenty of private, religious schools...it's much more their thing.
Anyway, if you really want an answer to your post of "how to get ND to join the Big Ten"...I'd say to just sprinkle some alter boys in a path from South Bend to the Big Ten office in Illinois.
Honestly, I don't know that I want a school that flat-out doesn't want to be in the conference. This isn't like PSU where the alumni were split around 50-50 at the time. ND alumni are like 95-5 against this.
ND alumni are like 95-5 against this.Isn't that, like, a really good reason to want ND in the conference?
While that might be amusing at the outset, I can picture ND acting like a spoiled child once it's in the conference, threatening to withdraw (or join a different conference) everytime it doesn't get special treatment (like an extension of its TV deal).