"Anyone care to speculate on players that could go?"
Let's not do that here, please.
"Anyone care to speculate on players that could go?"
Let's not do that here, please.
As long as we have Hoke were okay.
I don't think it shows a lot of class to speculate on a very public forum which 18 or 19 year-old is going to get "advised" that he may get more playing time elsewhere. We're talking about kids who are giving their all to play at Michigan and keeping their noses clean; they deserve our respect. Until the second "incident," anyway. Then, I think it warrants discussion.
Offense Pos. # Name Class
SR 9 Odoms, Martavious Odoms Sr
SR 19 Grady, Kelvin Grady Sr
RB 20 Shaw, Michael Shaw Sr
WR 21 Hemingway, Junior Hemingway Sr
WR 22 Stonum, Darryl Stonum Sr ???
FB 49 McColgan, John McColgan Sr
OL 50 Molk, David Molk Sr
OL 72 Huyge, Mark Huyge Sr
TE 81 Watson, Steve Watson Sr
TE 86 Koger, Kevin Koger Sr
LB 9 Evans, Marell Evans Sr
CB 17 Anderson, Tony Anderson Sr
CB 29 Woolfolk, Troy Woolfolk Sr
DT 39 Heininger, Will Heininger Sr
LB 42 Fitzgerald, J.B. Fitzgerald Sr
DE 53 Van Bergen, Ryan Van Bergen Sr
LB 58 Herron, Brandon Herron Sr
DT 68 Martin, Mike Martin Sr
Diamond and Pipkins
Stop saying critical mass. As a nuclear engineer I'm obligated to inform you it means normal. Regardless, this is a great problem to have. I'd be happy with any of those mentioned including Burbridge and Wright.
It's one of those phrases people use that really bugs me. Same with "tiping point." People don't know what it means, and they use it wrong.
People use decimated in place of devastated. Romans would decimate their own armies as a punishment. They'd reduce a unit by 1/10th. A decimated anything is still 90% intact. Grrrr
Metaphor yo. If I say that a player is a "beast" I don't mean that he actually has fangs and sharp claws.
It would be pretty awesome if that's what you did mean. Think of the advantages we'd have with fangs and claws. Or better yet, if we fielded "Wolverines" like the guy in the comics and movies with those big metal claws. Oh well, that guy isn't that much scarier than Taylor Lewan when he gets angry . . .
dont forget wormley. I think when we talk about numbers, we will obviously not have the room that we wish to have to sign these talented prospects. Oh and dont forget about Jarrod Wilson that is a true safety that has us in the top 3 that Hoke is going after very hard.
You don't have to be a Nuclear Engineer to use a term that has entered the common vernacular. Critical mass has many other connotations - derived from the technical term. I wonder why that is?... you don't have to be a Nuclear Engineer to answer that BTW. There's a reason why Homer Simpson works in Nuclear facility.
With all due respect - I don't think you know what the Fukushima you are talking about...sorry I couldn't resist that.
Chengelis just tweeted:
Hoke also said he plans to sign a "full complement" of recruits 2012 "if not, will be 23"
Hoke told Chengelis at least 23. We can all stop speculating and use this number - the coaches know better than you/me on how they'll get there. 7 more kids in this class
Hoke also told AC "we don't know what we're going to do" re. Stonum
the last spots of attrition the coaches reasonably expect might happen around the same time the last top recruits wish to decide, after next seaon ends. I'm sure there's a fitting metaphor that fits here, one hand washes the other, one door closes while another opens...
I think up to 3, if I read correctly.
Jarrod Wilson said he plans on being an EE.
let's just see where this all goes, and trust in Hoke and the process.
This has been discussed. Where's that pic of the bunny with a pancake on its head?
Most people are saying this class grows to over 20. Just relax and see how it plays out over the next 7 months. Speculating on who leaves isn't fair to the kids and is a waste of time. Even if they only added two more, say Diamond and O'Brien, it's going to be a top ten class and probably #1 in the B1G.
It will work itself out. I'm sure the staff is aware of the numbers and has a plan. If they sign a full class, so be it. People transfer, leave school and yeah maybe a couple guys don't get a 5th year. But this isn't worth stressing out over.
Speculating on this or any other board about who might be gone, is just plain wrong (IMHO).
I respect your right to free speech and all, but you might want to follow this board a while longer before you start any more threads.
No need to pull rank just because you don't agree with the topic. I've seen plenty of examples of discussion of specific players who may not get a 5th year and those ppl were not negged to olivia newton-john. Just want to make it clear it's not a unanimous position.
I respect your right to free speech and all, but you might want to follow this board a while longer before you cyber-bully any more OPs for posting.
Here are two posts that already discussed this thoroughly.
I don't think he was trying to cyber-bully anyone. It's been my experience on the site that that's not something that's really appropriate to discuss. I think it makes us all feel a little more like Nick Saban. It might happen, but there are always people that say we shouldn't talk about it, which makes me think maybe we shouldn't speculate. It's treating the athletes as place-holders instead of actual people.
So wait, he should have called him out for being a dumbass and posting a topic that has been discussed thoroughly instead of calling him out for being a dumbass and speculating on who will not get a 5th year? Either way, it is a pretty stupid topic, whether becauase it has been dicussed thoroughly or because he wants to discuss who is going to leave the team.
on who will be gone after this season but i think Hoke may be looking at it like this: a 5th year senior would show immediate results but you need to think about the next 4 years instead of one year, more value
I believe, per B1G signing rules, we are allowed to sign 21 players if we had 18 open spots. If we need more, there is always the option of grey shirting. (But unlike the SEC, Hoke will actually discuss a grey shirt with a recruit before he does it.) Also, were there any empty spots from last year's class? If so, then I believe that players that come in January can be counted toward last year's class.
See jethro? There are ways. The way that I am NOT a fan of is giving a young man that was fully committed to Blue the hook for being less talented. They have a phrase to describe coaches who do that: SEC coaches.
signee's are toward the 85 player hardcap if I recall correctly. Technically, we can sign 28 and backdate 3 to give us 25 for this class(the B1G limit).
This is the coach's job. If you think Hoke is incompetent, say so.
It is clear Hoke thinks there are atleast 21 spots...and according to Chengelis, 23. I have seen ways to get up to 26 spots, but that would take a lot.
So stop worry. We likely have 7 spots, and at a minimum, 5 spots remaining.
Trust in Hoke.
always wounderd about grey shirting if a student pays for the first semester at school couldn't he basically be a walkon his redshirt year? still practice and dress with the team? then go on scholorship in the spring?
As many upthread have said, this has been discussed to death and it isn't fair to speculate on individual players leaving. But, how do we get over 18 is a simple question to answer.
1. Not every 5th year senior will get a 5th year schollie offer.
2. Attrition - while I will not comment on players, there are certainly a few positions where we may see attrition. RB for example has large numbers and no real leader. If any of our backs ends up at the back of a large line, they might transfer for a shot at playing time. Same for our DBs. We took a ton over the past few years. If there is a crowd, a player who doesn't think that there is a realistic shot at playing might leave. Ditto for some of the tweeners that we took in the last few classes. If they don't fit manball they may transfer. Happens all the time.
3 . There is also the possibility that a player suffers a career ending injury and gets a (non-saban legit) medical redshirt.
I hope that none of these happen, but in reality there are all fairly common. In the end our number f open spots will likely be way higher than it curretly is.
And that's fine. But kids to fill those slots shouldn't be added to the class until those spots are available, and we haven't reached that point yet.
Accepting too many commits then miraculously waiting for kids to be injured or suspended is what Alabama does.
-10? Really? When the math says it can't be done but the coach says it can I get negged because it's breifly mentioned in every damn thread but doesn't have one of it's own? Because clearly none of you have ever started a thread that had already been talked about before. I could have gone all SIAP but then would have incurred a little more wrath.
Forgive me for wondering how the crap they can turn 2 into 7. Fact is it WILL impact kids and if another school was guaranteeing it could happen this board would go all SEC on it and say it's not right to the 18-21 year old kids that are victimized.
I do not doubt Hoke, if anything I'm more excited about his recruiting than I have been in several years. But "a good problem to have" is still a problem. Some of you need to seriously relax and get some fresh air.
You just picked an unlucky time to post and you caught people who don't want to talk about specifics and think it's wrong. At a different time you'd have a long discussion with almost no objection like this one below.
This post is what you're looking for:
I have no problem with your post. It is freaking June - what the hell else is there to discuss other than osu?
I don't understand the backlash against this post. I agree that speaking about specific kids is inappropriate, but asking how on earth we are supposed to take 9 more kids is a valid question. Not asking, and just saying "it will work itself out/I trust the coaches" is nearly word for word what Alabama fans say every year. It is a valid question. And before the strawman brigade comes - I AM NOT SAYING HOKE IS SABAN, OR AN OVERSIGNER, but given this is his first cycle, we don't know he's not, either. If we see him sign 24, and then get a litany of injuries and suspensions, color me skeptical.
I love when people say things like this:
"I am NOT saying Hoke is Saban and an oversigner.....but if he pulls a Saban and then oversigns, which I am basing on no information at all, then I will say he is Saban and an oversigner."
He's basing it on the information that we plan to sign 23 players for 18 slots. Also, he said "if" not "when." Remove your maize sunglasses and realize that it's just as wrong whether it's Saban or someone who touches butts and says tremendous. With that, I doubt we pull the Saban shit (though apparently I can't do that.).
So we are speculating that he will oversign based on information we don't even know is correct? How do you know we can only sign 18? Hoke has been a head coach for 8 years and has never oversigned...why would he start now?
You are clearly unaware of the term "hypothetical".
I AM NOT SAYING HOKE IS SABAN, OR AN OVERSIGNER, but given this is his first cycle, we don't know he's not, either.
I'm pretty sure he did not oversign at SDSU or BSU.
I'm not saying he did. What I am saying is that if he DOES oversign, "I think the coaches know what they're doing" don't cut the mustard.
I think it will be these 5 players we will get.
1. Diamond - offensive tackle
2. Wilson - true safety
3. Wormley - defensive end
4. Pipkins - defensive tackle
5. Wide Receiver
and if they "make room" for someone it will be Gunner.
Thats all based on 23 spots.
and brionte dunn
If the goal is 23, we have 16 now .. + your 5, that = 21.
have been doing this long enough now to recognise that attrition happens. It always happens on its own so they plan for it like they should. It doesn't really matter how or why it happens, they have to deal with it every year just like they have to deal with injuries, sideline reporters bugging them, other coaches scouting their scrimmage videos, ect. ect. ect. It'll just happen, it always does. Even though it hasn't happened yet, Hoke and co. would be negligent if they didn't plan for it, realistically. We worry andscratch our heads at this (myself included) but I think the coaches spend more time worrying about recruiting kids who'll change positions 2 or 3 times during their career and how to plan for that instead of worrying about attrition which is more or less out of their hands.
Looking at all the prospects out there that are interested in us makes me wish we could sign about 35 kids!
those who care are reading. I don't know what you are talking about wrt "-10" but there's no reason to go there - stay the course. Strobel's commit...every commit going forward... adds interest to what the final class will look like, and what is going on in A2 this summer.
...is that the Michigan venue is being perceived as a "first come, first serve" destination of choice among recruits and they know if they don't accept the offer first, someone else will take the coveted spot.
What I'm really wondering with regard to recruiting right now, is this: do all of the recruits who have verballed to us have their commitments accepted if there is someone more highly desired at their position? I don't know how common that practice is, and I can't really see Hoke doing that, but I was wondering if that'd ever be likely to occur. This is the first year I've really followed recruiting.
Is Stefon Diggs out of the picture for us? I just ask because I havn't seen anything about him lately and we could REALLY use a wide reciever in this class.
I don't see him coming here. He looks to have his heart set on ACC or SEC.
Stanford seems like our best bet at WR, but I read an article on 24/7 that they were gonna lower his rating. Any speculation or insite on why that might be?
Burbridge wants to be here.
We'll have 23 recruits, most likely a full 25.
There is no point in trying to figure out the how, but to focus on the little that we actually do know, which is the numebr. We finally have a number. After weeks of people being unsure on the number, we finally know that Hoke and crew will bring in a full class, which most expected. From here on out, Michigan needs two more DTs, another DE, two more OL, at least one WR, and a S - Jarrod Wilson fits perfectly, esspecially if he ends up an EE, which means his number will count for last year.
That's seven, and gives Michigan 23.
Adolphus Washington and Dwayne Stanford would put us at 25.
I think we'll make room for that package, if they GO BLUE!
anyone who has been around for the past few years can write "assuming no further attrition" with a straight face. We have a new coach, a new staff, and a new scheme. There will be more attrition (unfortunately). It's simply what happens after a dramatic shift in scheme. It won't be because Hoke is running kids off to make room just like past attritition was not because RR was a family-valueless monster.
To lose some current kids to attrition who really have no place within the new scheme? How will all of those 5'8" slots fit into the new scheme? Wouldn't it be best for them to look elsewhere so they might get on a college football field?
They'll realize that pretty quick if they're not seeing the field. Guys like Jeremy Gallon are good players (4-star) but he really isnt suited for the pro-style offense. I'd love to see them succeed in the maize and blue but sometimes they just need to move on to be successful.
This is the exact post we should look at and realize we shouldn't specualte about anything because it is just plain stupid. Do we really think Gallon, who has already used his redshirt, is going to play this year, transfer, and sit out his junior year so he can play 1 year as a senior on another roster. In fact, the only slot receiver who hasn't already used his redshirt is Drew Dileo. That means unless Roundtree and Robinson would like to play this year and then transfer so they lose their last year of eligibility, we probably won't see any slot receivers transfer. This board is becoming Mlive.
I'd posbang you but I'm Karma zero'd. Thanks for this.
1 - I don't think the OP was trying to be malicious, so I don't think he deserves the flaming of the century. Maybe his points just didn't translate well or whatever to some people.
2 - Glad to hear that Chengelis tweet, so big thanks to Bluebrains98, as I probably would not have seen that, left to my own devices.
3 - My best guesses then, based upon a 23 man class. Wilson seems to me to be the most likely DB at this point. I think that if we got Wright, we could probably shift Standifer to FS, but Wilson seems the more likely get. Fot the D-line, Wormley has been with us from the start, but he better act fast or it might be Pittman. Washington seems the least likely. Pipkens and Day seem the most likely, as Pipkens still considers himself from Saginaw, and Day is relatively local, being from Indiana.
On the O-line, Diamond has always seemed like our most likely OT, as he just seems to feel the love here, and his mom speaks well of the school also. Now it gets tougher. I think we do take at least one more OT, and it could (ideally) be Thurston, Banner, or Garnett. A player I don't hear mentioned much is Jonah Pirsig. Maybe someone knows more than I do, but I have no reason to think he doesn't like us, and he is a good looking prospect, if you want a dark horse candidate. I don't know the nature of the Olson offer, but he doesn't really seem to fit too well with the directions we are going in, so if he wants in, he'd better call today and do some convincing to the staff.
I am going to say that Dunn flips and becomes our 23rd. The OSU poopalanche has only just begun, and I think he likes us.
Since I have gone this far, I will say that if we do go up to 25, we go for 4 OTs, and that 25th spot is where we could put a WR. I don't know too much about WR prospects besides Stanford and Burbridge, so I will say Burbridge. We have his teammates, and I think Stanford ends up leaving the midwest.
"Crazy scenario" - I have to pick something interesting as a far out possibility, so this is it. Gunner Kiel was supposedly about to go with Oklahoma, but decided to hold back. If, and this is a big if, he does change his mind and goes Blue, I am going to say that he brings Dorial Green-Beckham with him, and he gets the "super class" that he had wanted.
And of course, if a super talent like Jarrod Jones or Aziz Shittu breaks our way late in the game, Hoke and Co find a way to make the numbers work . . .
I beleive we will finish with these f making class 23
I keep reading people saying five names, but saying that's if we take 23, but we have 16 commits right now, that would be 7 - not 5 - that gets us to 23, and 9 for a full class of 25.
We have 16 commits, do we not?
Ray Vinopal, Cullen Christian, and DJ Williamson have transferred. That's three more. Darryl Stonum might have a tough time keeping his. (Even though I'm REALLY hoping they don't give up on him). We did NOT however only have 18 spots even with the transfers. We had 21. We will have between 25 and 28 spots open assuming we can backdate. That news has been everywhere I've turned. Speculation over. If you don't believe me, hang around a while. Hoke and Co are getting it done in extremely good fashion! That's the real topic here. To speculate as to whom should transfer, dude, you know all the players read these boards right? Why would you want ANY of them to read something that demeaning? They are all people who DO take some things said by fans very personally. After all, they are still in their developmental stages of life and don't have the thicker skin more grown adults do. See twitter accounts.
2 DTs: Pipkins, Shittu
2 OTs: Diamond, Banner OR Thurston
WR: Dorial Green-Beckam
RB: Brionte Dunn
Those 9 additional recruits would make for a class of 25 when added to the 16 commitments we already have.
The mega-class will happen, Hoke uber alles.
As for how we get to 25 available slots: We'll run into the 85 man total limit before we run into the 25/28 per class limit. That's the one we need to worry about.
Per the depth chart by class, right now we have 18 available spots. Also, per the DC by class, it also states that if we need room, T. Rob and Mike Cox are unlikely to be brought back for 5th years.
That brings us up to 20.
If Matt Wile is the real deal, and makes a strong statement, I could see Gibbons transferring.
Now we're up to 21.
Now we're only 4 spots away from having 25 available. That amount of attrition is definitely feasible between now and NSD. Between this time last year and NSD this past year, off the top of my head, we lost: Turner, Vlad Emilien, and Austin White.... That's 3 players I can think of right now. There was probably 1-2 more I'm not thinking of.
So, to expect 4-5 more roster spots to open up between now and NSD, allowing us to take a class of 25, is definitely feasible.
1) Diamond OL
2) Kyle Kalis/ Magnuson's team mate from small school OL
3) Paul Thurston OL
4) Pipkins DL
5) Shittu DL
6) Wormley DE
7) Dunn RB
We take one less OL/DL to accomodate elite QB I'd say