I think our secondary will be our biggest problem next year. Lots of talented guys, but not a ton of experience. I don't see us winning against OSU, but I don't know how many players are leaving. Anyone else know?
How big is the gap between UM and OSU?
They return almost everyone, not sure who the few seniors are.
And yeah, I'm sick to my stomach, too (is it the Bucks or the alcohol?? Both?).
It has been said that up to 10 guys on their roster submitted paperwork to the NFL, so hopefully, and I emphasis hopefully, several of those guys leave. The only problem is they already have guys waiting to take their place.
I'm pretty sure both of their starting safeties, starting DT and starting SLB are seniors according to what I saw tonight.
One word sums up the difference: Defense.
Remember that the chronically-maligned UM defense played better against OSU than Oregon did. I am fully convinced that the defense finally "got it" agianst OSU, and that UM may have the horses to beat them next season.
Michigan will be a bigger, older, more experienced team next year. RR's teams always have a "quantum leap" year. I will not discount the possibility that 2010 will be that year in the Big House.
I definitely agree that the defense started to "get it" in that last game, but I'm not totally sold. The problem is that we have probably 3 or more guys that will need to start "getting it" for the first time as they will be new starters. I definitely think the defense can improve, but it won't be easy.
but watching Tressel and buckeyes celebrating right now makes me sick to the stomach. Its been too long and I hope these days come back to us. I feel like throwing my remote into my tv right now...
this is why I switched to the Sugar Bowl already. TVs are expensive.
As wide as Brittany Spears's vagina. Sad face
Is in position for a great 2010. I don't think you are pessimistic as much as realistic.
I think the gap is HUGE. And next year does not bode well for ANYBODY on OSU's schedule.
There's no denying the scope of this game for Pryor, Tressel and OSU. They won a game very few thought they would and they imposed their will on Oregon. I think that's the most impressive thing about it.
Like Grand Canyon huge.
The gap has widened the last two years, but it will close again. Maybe not next season, but we are putting the pieces in place. They have a ton of depth and above all, a fierce defense. It will get better.
They are saying that there is a big group of Bucks who are coming out.
Hopefully, the same uncapped BS that worked on Warren is working in Cbus as well!
Pryor is clearly a gifted athlete. However, I believe he is a bit slow on the uptake. Having an entire month to prepare for this game no doubt helped him learn the game plan. That is something the coaches couldn't count on him to do week to week in the regular season.
the benefit of bowl practices on overall development.
And I think you are a bit shortsighted if you do not think that Pryor will continue to develop next year...Maybe wishful thinking but his talent is there...painful to say, but it is true. Maybe not NFL quaterback talent, but that matters little in the games between osu and UM.
I don't understand how anyone can claim there is a massive gap between OSU and UM when Ohio State only beat Michigan by 11 despite 5 Forcier turnovers and all-around sloppy play by the Wolverines.
Believe it or not, if Olesnavage makes a 24-yard field goal and Tate doesn't throw the interception in the end zone, you're looking at a hypothetical tie game late in the 4th quarter.
A sizable gap, yes. A massive gap? I don't see it.
It's worth noting as well that we had to go without arguably our top two offensive players (Molk and Minor) in that game. I wish for once OSU would come into the game more injured than us.
Still, that was just one game, and we had more to play for than they did. Over the course of the season they looked a lot better than we did.
osu and Oregon?
But I think the real wild card is Pryor. I see your point about how the could-have-should-have would lead to a tie game, but somehow I think that Tressel could have let Pryor run a little more. I, for one, was not confident in our ability to tackle Pryor.
The thing is, Tressel usually only scores as many points as he needs to be able to start running out the clock. If we had put up a few more, then Tressel probably could have matched us.
Just my epinion.
Let's hope we get some quick studies in the secondary and
the new linebackers coach gets them playing solid quickly.
OSU's D was dominant.
I dont see how we beat them next year - a lot can happen in 11 months, but they look strong...I hope they send a lot of Juniors to the draft.
I think the worse part is how the osu D manhandled the oregan O. this game made me feel very bad for next year.
There is no question there is a gap right now but anybody chalking up our game agaisnt them next year as a loss is crazy. It's a long time away til that Saturday after Thanksgiving.
I don't see Pryor leaving after his junior year.
As for Michigan, it's going to be baby steps, unfortunately. At least in 2010. 2011 they may take a big stride. The gap between Michigan and some other B10 schools is more worriesome at this point to me.
For Pryor to leave after next year, I think he will need to have a very big year...which could happen...and maybe I hope happens except for that Saturday after Thanksgiving..
The only option Pryor would have to play football out of college right now would be the CFL. He's not leaving osu anytime soon and this Cinci game is getting ugly really fast.
I can see Pryor leaving after next year. If he performs at the level he did yesterday next season, he'll get drafted (possibly quite highly). And frankly, he doesn't strike me as a "Joe College" type.
about 11 points
11 points is the correct answer. We played with these guys. The Tater turnover fest hurt, but do you remember when it was 14-10 and Brandon Graham personally body slammed Pryor on two consecutive plays only to have him hit a little screen over the line for a TD on the next play? If we hold them to a field goal there, it could've been a different game.
With that said, it won't be easy to beat them next year at their place, but to think there's this huge gap between us is incorrect.
If Tressel thought our spread was anywhere near the threat Oregon's was, maybe he opens up the offense more like he did today (in Tressel-ball like terms).
I can't believe you guys point to the 11-point difference in the game this year and use that as some sort of benchmark in terms of assessing the difference between the two programs.
Using that logic, what does that say about Purdue closing the gap between themselves and the Buckeyes?
You really do lead a pathetic life, don't you?
Didn't you hear? Ohio State is the best team in the country besides Purdue and USC. And if we don't use the actual game played by the two, what would you suggest using? They played the game and it was close.
The biggest gap is in the defense. Michigan's offense is pretty good, but we don't have the talent level or the coaching to field a defense comparable to theirs. If that doesn't change soon, some heads will have to roll.
From what I have seen from OSU offense (mostly Prior), I do not think they/he have a large up-side left. His throwing mechanics are bad and are no better then they were last year. I also feel confident that following this win, there will be a number of OSU Juniors who go to the NFL draft. Add that to the potential of Michigan's offense next year and the "they can't be any worse" defense, I predict a more competitive game between the two teams next year. A win would be tough to conceive, but if Pryor continues to make poor/no reads it is within the realm of possibility.
But he has done pretty well in college...
Tebow's mechanics are almost flawless. Thanks to former qb coach Scott Loeffler, there might be a chance Tebow plays QB at the next level.
I do not see NFL scouts drooling over Tebow's throwing motion - regardless of what Loeffler may have done.
He has almost a baseball pitcher's windup, his footwork isn't good, and Florida has tailored their passing game to his talent level (which is to say it's really simplified).
But he IS a winner.
I don't think there's too much of a gap between our offense and OSU's offense. We have a lot of talent and explosive potential that will get a big boast with the added experience. The gap between our defense and OSU defense is unprecedented. There's where the worry should be. Their defense is tough and talented where our defense...well is just plain bad. But, hopefully next year the defense turns a corner.
but maybe that's just some New Year's optimism on my part.
1-2 years. That's when our talented underclassmen will be upperclassmen. I know we lose a lot on D because of BG and DW and it sucks that we'll have such a young secondary but our LB's could improve...Right? Right? Please tell me it can happen! We will have pretty good depth this year and it's great that anywhere from 6-9 recruits are going to EE. The O will make significant strides forward (please God, let Molk stay healthy) and the D will be adequate.
We have one a total of 3 Big Ten games the last 2 seasons, the gap is significant. People need to stop wordsmithing our ineptitude the last 2 seasons, we have sucked.
I am not in the fire RR camp, I think he should get a 4th season regardless of how 10 plays out, but things have been awful.
i don't think it's as big as most people would say it is having just watched ohio st win the rose bowl. all it takes is one win and the "gap" will be closed.
We have significant gaps between us and teams like Wisconsin, Illinois, Purdue and even Sparty right now. Oh yeah--and Penn State and Iowa. THEN there's OSU.
I KNOW we don't have a gap between us and Indiana, though.
Thanks for posting that info. I was just discussing how Oregon and Michigan compared against tOSU with my brother. Give Tressel credit for prepping the D so well in the month he had, and if Oregon had turned it over 5 times including a fumble at their own goal line this score would've been a blowout.
Oregon was not that good. They were dominated by Boise St. and could have easily lost to Purdue, Arizona, and/or Utah. Stanford moved up and down the field at will against them with an offense that basically consists of one play ("give it to the big white guy and everybody block"). With SC down, the Pac10 was downright crap this year (the fact that they went 2-5 despite playing down in most bowl games is pretty pathetic).
OSU has been the better team/program for the last six years and eight of the last nine. This is nothing new. This one game against Oregon certainly isn't cause for panic about Michigan's future. Let's just hope our guys continue to grow/improve and that the increased talent/depth/experience coming into the program pays off with big wins in the near future (which I'm certain it will).
...BEFORE the game...
The national media has basically been saying OSU and the Big 10 are garbage for the last few years, despite the fact that last year's OSU team went down to the wire with Texas. I also think most folks not living on the west coast only saw UO's highlight reel performance against SC (still ranked #5 at the time) and bought the hype, even though their overall resume/performance wasn't all that impressive. As the bowl season has played out (before Rose Bowl kickoff), I think it should have tempered some of the pro Oregon sentiment (though ESPN didn't seem to flinch in their Duck-love).
I guess my point was merely that this win shouldn't do anything to change our perception of OSU (unless you thought they had become some donkey program incapable of winning on the national level, as ESPN and co. seemed to buy).
Right up to the pregame with Desmond, Jesse dnd Lee making their picks. Though "Duck-love" does sound like Chris Fowler involved in beastiality.
And while to be fair I'm pretty sure you were NEVER one to say "OSU is going to get rolled, AARRGGHHH!" in any one of a number of threads (usually right after someone would say hey, OSU might have a chance here), there was a lot of it going on here, not just ESPN talking heads, and I get the feeling there may be some overlap in the Oregon will kill them/Oregon was never any good really posts (and posters).
Not exactly. The BIG difference in this game tonight was that Oregon never got its passing game going. Almost all of the "Duck love" on ESPN came with the caveat that the huge key for Oregon was to be able to throw the ball to further open up the run. That never, ever materialized. As one who thought OSU would get rolled, and having seen all of OSU's games this year and all of Oregon's games this year, it never seemed like a realistic possibility to me that Chip Kelly would COMPLETELY abandon the passing game. That was really stunning to me.
with all your points in these 2 posts, however, reading mgoblog i thought the spread would dominate the big, clunkier, "slower" big10 teams. its a little disconcerting seeing what the osu D did to the vaunted oregon spread offense attack.
Scary, ain't it?
What do you mean exactly by "seeing what the osu D did to the vaunted oregon spread offense attack"? With the exception of about two or three possessions Oregon moved the ball at will on OSU's defense. It doesn't show up in the stats because of the awesome field position that their special teams gave them time and time again and it doesn't show up on the scoreboard almost entirely because of mistakes that Oregon made (missed FG, fumble in the redzone). About the only place that you could really make that statement is third down conversions. Ohio State's defense was helped out in a major way by the fact that Ohio State's offense controlled the time of possession. Both teams had nearly identical yards/play, but Oregon had 36 less plays than Ohio State did.
Also, you do realize that our offense outgained Oregon's offense against Ohio State this year, right?
It doesn't show up on the stats or scoreboard? Well, hell, Oregon won the game! My bad.
Beyond the fact that scoreboard is ALL that matters, I love all the rationalization that playing smart football, keeping it away from the other team's offense, not making mistakes, and causing them, is all "luck".
I didn't see ONE person on here saying that "well, Oregon wins, but their defense sucks, so it will be a shootout". I DID see "dude, how do you expect OSU can even score 24 points?" and a lot of Oregon 40+ point totals.
Come to the realization that the spread isn't some magic wand to kill the OSU dragon, and you better have a lot of talent, and a whole hell of a lot of it better be on defense. Florida last night is the goal. A ridiculous offense? Yes. But Cinncy had a great offense that had everyone hiring Kelly a few weeks ago. But the Florida defense destroyed them. And when the Gators played an even better defense? Their offense wasn't so good either.
I never said the scoreboard didn't matter. It obviously does. However, I was obviously talking about measurables and comparables.
OSU played probably their best overall game of the year today against Oregon. One of things I hate about the bowl season is how much time their is between games. Had this game been played December 5th, Oregon probably wins, but the month slowed their big momentum and they did not look good. Too much emphasis given to bowl performances, where often one team prepares and plays a lot harder than the other.
OSU's defense looked dominant in part today because of Oregon's ineptitude on offense (how big a part, who knows).
The gap between Michigan and OSU is not getting wider that's for sure. They don't have as much room for improvement as we do. I do think we are at least until 2011 away from winning however.
Side note: Wish we had the schedule we had in 2009 in 2010. Our improvement might be hurt by having to play at ND, at PSU and at OSU next year, at least as far as record improvement.
Vs. OSU lite? Hey, the long break works to the Big Ten advantage! Don't move those games back next year!
RR needs to somehow break the Glenville curse and snake oil Latwan Anderson. (It isn't going to happen, but there will be much rejoicing when Michigan can actually enter the conversation in a serious fashion.)
unfortunately the difference is still huge. don't forget, this is a buckeye team without a dominant tailback (beanie left early) and with good but not great receivers. they stifled an offense that we can only hope to emulate. furthermore, some of their weapons were suspended for the game. we're at least two years away from competing.
By "stifle" you mean an offense that was more productive on a per play basis than their own? I guess, using that logic, Oregon's notoriously weak defense then stifled the OSU offense?
Where was all this notoriety before the game? Till they start measuring winners on a per play basis, scoreboard, dude.
Oregon's defense couldn't get Ohio State's offense off of the field. Ohio State's defense didn't "stifle" Oregon yesterday. Fairly obvious point that I was making, dude. You think you're making some grand point by saying "scoreboard" (no shit, Sherlock), but you're missing the point that when you're talking about measureables and comparables (which obviously most everyone here is doing) other things matter.
I noticed how you ignored all the stuff I said other than the score-
"I love all the rationalization that playing smart football, keeping it away from the other team's offense, not making mistakes, and causing them, is all "luck"."
You know, the intangibles that win football games. They may not be measurable, but there's a reason they play the games rather than have engineers determine the outcome beforehand. Because the "comparisons" here weren't all that favorable before the game according to most measuring it here.
What is shows is that denial is not just a river...
The point that I was making (I can't speak for anyone else) is that you use measureables and comparables (yes, score is ONE measureable) to compare teams when all of the teams haven't played each other. I never said anything was luck. I'm not quite sure why you're trying to be such a jerk in your posts to me. It's really isn't called for, though. I think it's obvious that you disagree with my posts, why not just leave it at that instead of trying to be an insufferable prick about it?
AND you responded condescendingly ("you do realize our offense blah blah blah"). If I'm being insufferable, it's only because you're losing the argument. So don't act like I just came around and started picking on your posts. So let's not live in denial there too. You, uh, started it. :-P
And BTW, since you don't seem to have an answer for anything else, it should properly read scoring is THE measurable. That why they, ahem, keep score. If that's changed be sure and notify ESPN right away so I don't have to here about OSU winning for the next 9 months.
Edit: But if you took that much offense to arguing football, my apologies. I don't think you're a whack poster or anything, we just disagree. No negging here. Just strong differences of opinion.
Fair enough with the last statement, just a difference of opinion. It's just come across like you were saying that I didn't realize that the score was the most important measurable. Again, obviously it is IF the teams have all played each other. My overall point was to a poster who was trying to say that Ohio State shut down Oregon's (more experienced and more talented) spread and that should be bad news for us in the future. I disagree. Oregon moved the ball pretty well, they just didn't score (i.e. the most important measurable). We actually moved the ball better on Ohio State than Oregon did, but we just didn't score. That's not taking anything away from Ohio State's defense, it's just stating that their defense wasn't "stifling". Stifling was Nebraska versus Arizona, which is definitely NOT what we saw yesterday.
Osu is way ahead of UM. I'm thinking like 3 or so years and it is mainly b/c of their D.
OSU held the ball for 41 minutes. Added to that was a fumble in the endzone and that Tyree esqe catch made by Ballard. You beat a spread tram by keeping them off the field. As far as the gap it doesn't natter how big or little it is, win next year or this whole thing might get blown up with the new AD. Watching FLA- CIN I was amazed at how the Gators overwhelmed the Bearcats. If we can get our offense running like that then who cares about The defense. Well be back there is no question about that. Michigan football has been around along time......it will get fixed!
Just score, D doesn't matter? You didn't catch that they scored so much because they had the ball back every 30 seconds because their defense DESTROYED the Bearcats high powered offense? If anything yesterday's games renewed my belief that while these offenses can be fun, I really wish we had one of these dominating defenses.
I think we will show more improvement than OSU from this year to the next. They also will lose some key players. We outplayed them for much of the game this year, but we forced plays, which led to turnovers.
Just because Pryor played well today, doesn't mean that he won't have anymore Purdue games or that his knee will always be 100%. Why get worried about a game a year away?
Whatever the gap, Coach Rod needs to close it fast. Another losing season, or another year with losses to our main rivals, and he'll probably be gone. Starting 0-3 against OSU after going 8-16 in his first two seasons would probably cause him to lose his job, or at least put it in serious jeopardy. Let's just hope the D improves after a year under GERG and the new recruits make an impact.
Barring major violations being uncovered, none of which will happen out of this Free Press nonsense, or a total collapse next year, RR will be here for at lest four years. Marry Sue has all but guaranteed it with her comments. That being said, the gap is zero on offense, negligible on special teams, and massive on defense. We have to hold on to hope that players finally in their second year in a defensive scheme will offset the loss of two huge talents.