Hot for Harbaugh? Read this
Harbaugh's records at Stanford:
| 2007 | Jim Harbaugh | 4–8 | .333 |
| 2008 | 5–7 | .417 | |
| 2009 | 8–5 | .615 | |
| 2010 | 7–1 | .875 |
Hey guess what? If Michigan can find a way to beat Illinois and Purdue, and then win a bowl game, they'll be 8-5 in RR's 3rd year.
Mind=blown
November 4th, 2010 at 4:18 PM ^
To expand on this, it seems like in order to believe this coaching staff is doing a good job, you have believe that a whole bunch of people, from the media to Lloyd Carr to our admissions department to some of the players RR himself recruited (who transferred), all have it in for us for whatever reason. Now, I do think that the Free Press has behaved incredibly irresponsibly, and I won't read them. But not everyone else who is less than supportive has an ax to grind.
November 4th, 2010 at 11:26 AM ^
I expect a lot more no matter how young the players are.
If you expect "a lot more" despite age, I wonder what your reaction would be if Michigan's fourth-year starting senior QB and RB lost to a team like, say... App St.?
November 4th, 2010 at 11:44 AM ^
Very disappointed and upset with that team also. A lot of talent that was wasted in a 9-4 season which should have been probably 10/11 and 2. Were you ok with that result or something?
November 4th, 2010 at 12:13 PM ^
I'm simply pointing out your stated expectations of "a lot more no matter how young the players are" may be a little quixotic since Michigan has had embarrassing losses with senior talent before Rodriguez ever came here.
November 4th, 2010 at 10:30 AM ^
November 4th, 2010 at 10:32 AM ^
And what does she think about RR?
November 4th, 2010 at 10:37 AM ^
It's the Silverfox she's hunting.
November 4th, 2010 at 10:32 AM ^
I don't want to really get into this debate, however, I feel like this must be said. Harbaugh has beaten a ranked USC team multiple times - and once a major upset. He's also taken out a top ten Oregon team and is much better in conference. Not to bash RR but if we're talking purely statistics here even with two more big ten wins he's still got a terrible big ten record and the vast majority of his wins have come over weak OOC opponents. His 1 quality win IMO is the win over Wisconsin 2 years ago.
Harbaugh has also taken a team from bottom to top where as RR has taken us from top to bottom (which may or may not be because of other factors just stating facts here).
November 4th, 2010 at 10:45 AM ^
The word of the day is PERSONNEL, the team with the better personnel wins and Butch Davis approves this message.
November 4th, 2010 at 10:50 AM ^
Their "personnel" comes into Iowa city ranked significantly lower than the "personnel" of Ohio State, Michigan State, and Michigan. They will likely beat all three this year. Now, if you're arguing that their personnel is better "at this point", well then that just means their coaches did a better job than ours which blows up your whole argument that talent=wins.
November 4th, 2010 at 11:12 AM ^
The point is that a coaching change doesn't give you automatic wins, Kelly to ND comes to mind.
The point about Butch was that the most important thing he did for that blue team was hire a recruiting guy( someone to get the best players in the nation ), Right, that worked out well.
I don't think anyone takes inferior players and wins with them, if they did then good coaches wouldn't recruit, they would just pick their players from the students on campus.
That's not to say an inferior player can't become a good player but that takes time.
Coaches make a difference, just not night and day kind of difference.
November 4th, 2010 at 10:49 AM ^
Rich has no quality wins. Wisconsin was 7-6 that year, 3-5 in the BigTen and lost the Champs Sports Bowl by 29 points.
November 4th, 2010 at 10:33 AM ^
what is the metric for "Michigan Manliness?"
November 4th, 2010 at 10:33 AM ^
Stanford won 16 games in the 5 seasons before Harbaugh arrived. Michigan won 46 in the 5 seasons before Rodriguez. That's the difference here.
I'm not clamoring for Rodriguez to be fired and Harbaugh to come in and take his place. But let's not pretend like someone's record at Stanford is analogous to someone's at Michigan. Rodriguez won 48 games in the 5 seasons before leaving West Virginia. How's that working out for him now?
November 4th, 2010 at 11:58 AM ^
dear lord glad someone finally said it. the single most important factor ignored by the OP.
also worth mentioning (and others here have) - harbaugh is a recruiting MONSTER.
November 4th, 2010 at 10:34 AM ^
my mind is completely and utterly blown.
exept, you know, before harbaugh came stanford went 1-11 and had a total of 2 winning seasons since 1997.
but other than that. still blown away.
November 4th, 2010 at 10:34 AM ^
Assuming that Michigan beats Illinois and Purdue and then wins its bowl game, Rich Rod will almost certainly not be fired. Then, if Rodriguez leads Michigan to a 7-1 start next year, as Harbaugh has led Stanford this year, he will almost certanly be around for the 2012 season, as well. Thus, I am not really sure what your point is. The problem lies in the very real possibility that Michigan is looking at 7-6 or worse. If that happens, your point is null
November 4th, 2010 at 10:53 AM ^
We're going to lose to Illinois unless we have a TOM of +2-+3. Purdue is a toss-up. We no longer have JT Floyd. I'll believe we win a big ten game when I see it.
November 4th, 2010 at 11:22 AM ^
Tell us what does the future hold!!
November 4th, 2010 at 12:25 PM ^
to the story where IU got booted from the Big 10?
November 4th, 2010 at 1:34 PM ^
You realize they still have to play the game right? Crazier things have happened in college football.
November 4th, 2010 at 11:28 AM ^
November 4th, 2010 at 10:35 AM ^
Harbaugh is 1-2 vs. Cal so far.
This year's game?
In Berkeley.
Like Michigan, Stanford has 4 games to play against some tough opposition: Arizona (7-1), ASU (4-4, ok, not so tough), Oregon State (4-3) and Cal (4-4).
Before we fire that guy over there and hire this guy, let's exercise some patience, heh?
November 4th, 2010 at 11:15 AM ^
And how much you want to bet Stanford rolls Cal this year?
November 4th, 2010 at 11:33 AM ^
November 4th, 2010 at 10:35 AM ^
Even if Harbaugh were to come here, it doesn't solve the problems on defense. Harbaugh doesn't give the players experience with a snap of his fingers.
November 4th, 2010 at 10:36 AM ^
I think everyone realizes that Stanford != Michigan in football, but the point is that sometimes teams take a couple of years to grow into the personality and strengths of its coaching staff. The defense probably won't improve immensely in the next couple of years, but the offense has definitely made some strides.
And for the record, let's not act like RR took over a juggernaut. Look at the depth chart the past couple of years under Carr, and consider how virtually none of those upperclassmen are playing well right now. The fact that RR came in right when the wheels were beginning to come off the UM wagon shouldn't be discounted - if Carr had stuck around and muddled through some 5-7, 6-6, 7-5, 8-4 seasons, the "rebuilding program" meme wouldn't have been so easy to dismiss initially. I'm not saying that I am supremely satisfied with the performance by RR so far, but it is not as crazy to compare the rebuilding jobs both coaches inherited.
November 4th, 2010 at 10:49 AM ^
Do you think the upperclassmen you speak of would be playing well? I actually don't know the answer to this and I don't think anyone does. But I think its unfair to Lloyd to just assume b/c RR couldn't get Lloyd's recruits to play well that Lloyd couldn't have also.
November 4th, 2010 at 10:54 AM ^
Especially when Lloyd had a decade+ long track record of doing so.
November 4th, 2010 at 12:41 PM ^
I would imagine that if you looked at the track records for most established coaches, they would, on balance, show an ability to get the most out of their upperclassmen - you don't stick around in football if you can't. RR certainly showed an ability to WVU, and so far can point to guys like Brandon Graham, Mike Martin, Zoltan, Stevie Brown, large portions of the offensive line, and Brandon Minor and Carlos Brown (both when healthy) as upperclassmen who play/ed well under RR. Sure, Ezeh and Mouton have not been great, but on the balance RR has done a moderately good job with the upperclassmen he inherited.
I'm not knocking Carr, but player development is a fickle creature and, especially when you look at a small sample size, you might see one coach struggle because of what his predecessor left behind.
November 4th, 2010 at 7:16 PM ^
that Lloyd wasn't struggling to develop players over his tenure. It is unfair, IMO, to say x or y would have happened if Lloyd was still the coach (whether x or y be positive or negative). RR has been coaching these guys for 3 years, their development in that time is on him for better (Molk, Ommameh, etc.) or worse (Ezeh, Mouton, etc.).
November 4th, 2010 at 11:09 AM ^
everything you've said, RR's ability to field an above average defense with anybody not named Jeff Casteel is still my biggest question mark.
Harbaugh was able to "use" Shafer correctly. As far as that tune goes, how would Michigan have fared this year with a 68th ranked defense?
November 4th, 2010 at 10:37 AM ^
and Harbaugh won at the LA Coliseum in both 2007 and 2009. In 2007 his team was a 40 point underdog. Last year the beating was so severe that he had the great Pete Carroll whimpering about it after the game.
Rich has beaten the following quality big ten teams on the road:
Not denying the stats you bring up. However, marginalizing Harbaugh's job performance or even equating him with what Rich has done at Michigan makes the hard core "Rich must stay" crowd look desperate.
Rich's argument is continued improvement from a very rudimentary starting point offensively. That has been impressive overall. Continuity is also a huge part of it. What he lacks is a legit skin or two on the wall in the conference. I am hoping Illinois is like a spike horned trophy and Wisconsin will be the 14 point buck. Leaving no doubt.
November 4th, 2010 at 11:12 AM ^
In 2007 USC's starting QB was injured. Last year USC went 8-4, so it's not like they were the juggernaut of years past. Oh, and last year Stanford lost to a Wake Forest team that went 5-7 on the year. Maybe that equates this this year's PSU???
What about our win over Wisconsin in the first year? What if we beat Wisconsin again this year?
The whole point isn't that they are completely equal, but that everyone expects that Harbaugh is going to turn things around in a year, when really, the defense is going to take a few years to grow. That's going to happen under any coach.
November 4th, 2010 at 11:19 AM ^
If you're going to downgrade Stanford's wins against USC for whatever reason, then you'd better do the same for our win over Wisconsin in 2008. They finished that season something like 7-6. They weren't particularly good.
November 4th, 2010 at 11:20 AM ^
than anyone Richrod. Beating USC at SC with Stanford's then poor talent was an significant achievement no matter who started at QB for SC. Knocking that win us the tactic of a person who does not have the facts to make a good argument.
<br>
<br>Comparing a 6-6 Wisconsin team to a 11 win SC team makes your argument look even weaker. Plus, UM won that game @ home.
November 4th, 2010 at 12:35 PM ^
You may be right about some fans wanting a quick fix, but it also might be true that the fans just want to feel like the guy in charge of the situation is taking this places.
On USC in 07, check my facts but I think they set a record in the 08 and 09 NFL drafts for most players taken from one school over a two year period. One of the years they had 12 guys on defense drafted. They were so deep and good defensively that non-starters were getting drafted.
Last year, wasn't that the USC that beat our conference champion in Columbus with a freshman quarterback.?
It was a very impressive win, both years. Rich has done himself no favors by A. Not really coming close to anything as impressive in conference. B. Not building off of the good wins he has had.
Beat Notre Dame on the road, struggle with an FCS school the next week etc. I hate admitting this, but this year looks exactly like 09 to date. This is on Rich and his w/l accomplishments and this ever extending timetable for the rebuild. At least from me, it is no witch hunt and I doubt from anyone else on this board.
It is about accountability and tangible win/loss results. He still has the opportunity to do enough to stay. I am pulling for him.
November 4th, 2010 at 10:40 AM ^
Expect to see a'lot of these
November 4th, 2010 at 10:53 AM ^
It actually looks like he's giving head to Taco Pants.
November 4th, 2010 at 10:43 AM ^
Speculate all you want. The fact is Jim Harbaugh is not our coach , Rich Rod is. Can we stop all this until and if the reality changes.
November 4th, 2010 at 10:59 AM ^
...the speculative Harbaugh threads are a collective subconscious attempt at creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.
November 4th, 2010 at 10:45 AM ^
Quack, Quack, Quack
November 4th, 2010 at 10:51 AM ^
Likely a lot better than our team would right now.
How do we do against in conference teams not named Indiana...?
November 4th, 2010 at 12:00 PM ^
um, not really fair dont ya think?
how does everybody do against oregon in 2010, numero uno team in america?
...quack quack quack
what other spread offenses have beat him this year?
November 4th, 2010 at 10:46 AM ^
Have you seen the teams he has shut out? And Harbaugh has a huge disadvantage recruiting-wise vs the rest of the Pac10, for many recruits dont want to deal with the academic rigors at Stanford. Harbaugh > Rodriguez.
November 4th, 2010 at 10:46 AM ^
than 4 victories in the Pac 10
November 4th, 2010 at 10:50 AM ^
Why do people even want him? He hasn't taken Stanford anywhere. Last time everyone wanted Les Miles, now would poop there pants if he was even considered. A hot coaching name doesn't equal wins. If you want Harbaugh we have another 4 years of rebuilding to a pro style offense.
November 4th, 2010 at 10:51 AM ^
Maybe I am in the minority, but look at what hes done at LSU. Sure, we'd have a few heart attacks, but I'm relatively sure he'd have more than 4 b10 wins if we had hired him in 2007.
November 4th, 2010 at 10:54 AM ^
I liked how earlier on in the early Miles was declared a poisoned stock. Yet he's 7-1 with his only loss to Auburn. He might be crazy, but he has "lucky" to offset that.
7-1 with your only loss to Auburn is pretty good even if you are nutty.