In honor of Steve Spurrier and facts...
Today I'm going to buy a Michigan t-shirt and a Dominos pizza.
Steve Spurrier's coaching record at South Carolina:
2005 7-5 and lost bowl game
2006 8-5 and won a bowl game
2007 6-6 no bowl game listed
2008 7-6 and lost a bowl game
2009 7-6 and lost a bowl game
2010 9-5 and lost a bowl game....again
2011 11-2 and won a bowl game
2012 11-2 and won a bowl game
2013 11-2 and won a bowl game
I know, some detractors will say he has credentials, history, winning pedigree....blah-blah-blah. My reply is it still took him 6 years before he started winning at the other USC. Does this mean Hoke is the right coach? Who knows. What it does offer is some perspective, which I find much more relevant than panic.
As far as other prospective coaches go, there is a pattern with Les Miles. At some point we need to quit blaming everyone else. He knew the job was available. Why couldn't he drive his damn Lamborghini up here and take it....if he really wanted it that bad.
Harbuagh had his chance too. He chose to pull his khakis up to his nipples and go to San Francisco.
Hoke said he would walk here for the job.
Yeah, lets fire the guy over some adversity that seems historically normal.
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:03 AM ^
Harbaugh and Miles were never offered the position. So...
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:08 AM ^
Yep, that's the narrative. I've managed to get hired for jobs I was not offered and who the hell am I? Are you really trying to convince me that if Jim Harbaugh and Les Miles really wanted the Michigan job that they could not figure some way out to make that happen? They both seem pretty resourceful and determined.
September 23rd, 2014 at 10:24 AM ^
I don't know if I believe the narrative of them not being offered the job, but at the same time, it's not out of the realm of possibility. As soon as Brandon was hired, there were 'reports', rumors really, that Hoke was Brandon's guy even when RR still was coaching. And seeing Brandon being completely out of touch, and sometimes plain incompetence, on other aspects of the job, I wouldn't be surprised at this point of Brandon only offers the job to Hoke, and meeting with Miles was just window dressing and such.
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September 23rd, 2014 at 9:23 AM ^
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:18 PM ^
Everything I've heard suggests we did, in fact, contact Harbaugh (who apparently had some interest but his family not so much). If we didn't offer, it was only in a literal sense of us not actually giving him a contract to sign.
Miles though probably was not offered.
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:04 AM ^
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September 23rd, 2014 at 9:04 AM ^
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September 23rd, 2014 at 9:59 AM ^
September 23rd, 2014 at 10:01 AM ^
The punt thing is valid. The pace... jury's out. It might have been a Borges thing. Nuss says he wants to go faster but not before the offense starts making fewer mistakes. That's valid. Hoke has run every type of offense and defense everywhere he's been, trusting his coordinators to make the right choice. We had a psuedo spread here too to suit Denard's skills. Yeah, it felt like we were doing that grudgingly at times, but the caricature of a stubborn man stuck in the past isn't entirely fair either.
September 23rd, 2014 at 3:06 PM ^
...there's about 80 FBS coaches on the hotseat.
Not to mention the entire NFL.
You might prefer something else, you might even have data that suggest something else might be better, but it's a silly reason to fire someone.
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:05 AM ^
This time last year, Spartan's were calling for Dantonio's head after a historic slow start on offense. Not saying that Hoke is going to get the job done but things can change quickly.
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:10 AM ^
can make a lot of mediocre teams look good. That is really our only hope.
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:14 AM ^
the season has even started yet!
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:28 AM ^
Sure, people grumble all the time. But the level of dissatisfaction here and now for Hoke is way higher than any complaints about Dantonio last year - and rightly so. It's silly to compare the two.
Everybody keeps saying wait and wait and wait, and in the meanwhile, Rome burns.
September 23rd, 2014 at 10:04 AM ^
The expectations are different too at the two schools too, even as recently as last year. Dantonio's first 3 seasons would have seen him under just as much fire as Hoke is now and probably gotten him fired.
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:51 AM ^
September 23rd, 2014 at 10:22 AM ^
...were just the loudest of the funny farm minority. At this point, Hoke's supporters are mostly related by blood or marriage.
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:06 AM ^
And I'm pretty sure Mr Spurrier had a fairly decent track record prior to S. Carolina at Florida did he not? So he had proven he sort of knew how to coach despite his lackluster initial record at Carolina.
How's was Hoke's prior to Michigan? At which school did he demonstrate the same abillity to develop a long-term winning program like you see in Spurrier?
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:15 AM ^
at SC, and still comes up a little short. I don't think he scares the crap out of kids like he used to at Florida, which--genius football mind that he had to go with it--got him results.
The ideal coach, for me, has a great xs and os mind, inspires kids, and keeps his program's nose clean. I think that Hoke--nice guy though he is--has arguably come up short in all three of these categories.
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:55 AM ^
Plus, South Carolina has NE-VER been an especially dominant program in their market at any time in their history. Lou Holtthphfssphz was hardly a resounding success there and I don't think anyone doubts his ability to coach a football team.
They could afford to have patience with Spurrier because for that program the prolonged mediocrity of 6-7 win seasons (along with regular wins over in-state rival Clemson) and continuous bowl eligibility was an improvement over where they've been historically.
None of anything I've written in the prior two paragraphs adequately describes Michigan's football program...at least not until a fair bit of the most recent ten-year stretch.
Michigan is not South Carolina.
September 23rd, 2014 at 10:15 AM ^
To say that South Carolina has never been especially dominant is pretty generous; Holtz's first win there broke a 21 game losing streak. Evaluating Spurrier's performance there is much closer to looking at Fitz at NW or Glen Mason at Minny than it will ever be here...
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:07 AM ^
I'm still unsure about my opinion of Hoke. I guess it depends on how this season finishes. Look how long it took Dantonio to get that dumpster fire program to where it is. That is more proof that more often than not, it takes time to build a good program. Not all teams get to win right away like Urban was able to do.
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:12 AM ^
what is being interpreted as Hoke "falling apart" right now may simply be Hoke showing incredible resolve to keep his wits about him during a diffiicult time that he knew was coming but other people did not. In other words, he may be showing brass balls and walking through the fire instead of changing in order to avoid it. I have yet to fully reach a conclusion about what this time in Michigan football and his response to it really mean.
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:16 AM ^
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September 23rd, 2014 at 9:52 AM ^
September 23rd, 2014 at 10:29 AM ^
Ah yes, you are correct, I remembered it wrong. Dantonio's year four 11 win season featured that terrible road loss to Iowa where they basically lost it by half time (TO fest by Cousins I believe). I was thinking about Dantonio's year five 11 win season where they lost to Nebraska on the road (and ND too, but beat Gerogia in the bowl). My bad.
September 23rd, 2014 at 10:43 AM ^
The year 5 is interesting, as two losses were not that close (31-13 @ ND, 24-3 @ Neb) and it includes a 10-7 win @ OSU.
Those games saw an average MSU offensive output of 26 (8.7 per game). The rest of the year, they scored 291 points against B1G teams and Georgia (36.4 per game). It's also interesting to see that they didn't have the turnover bug that we did, finishing +7 in TOM. Their issues appear to have come from penalties.
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:59 AM ^
They were blown out by Iowa as their lone regular season loss. Then they were of course murdered by Alabama in their bowl. Still a pretty solid team, though.
I just want the comparisons to MSU to end. Firstly because the fact that MSU is now something to look up to, makes me want to vomit. Secondly, apart from 2009 and 2012, the kind of down years that any program is going to have, Dantonio has had them on an upward track since coming to EL. Hoke's teams have regressed every year and with the data currently presented, it's delusional to imagine this team finishing with a better record than 2013's. Dantonio, loathsome bastard that he is, is a far better coach than Brady Hoke, and is running a program he has personally made far better than Brady Hoke's. I'm tired of, "Look at Dantonio's first few years," or, "Look at MSU 2012 and then MSU 2013, and how their offense started." That kind of turnaround is not coming with this coaching staff.
September 23rd, 2014 at 3:42 PM ^
I wouldn't say it's delusional to think we can finish 8-5 or better. I'm not going to say it's hugely probable, but it could happen. Our defense should keep us in most games, so if we can get anything out of the offense, we could have something of a turnaround.
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:09 AM ^
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:29 AM ^
"Hoke is a good football coach"
Objection, assumes facts not in evidence.
September 23rd, 2014 at 10:57 AM ^
Good football coaches to not send only 10 people on the field multiple times
September 23rd, 2014 at 11:22 AM ^
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:11 AM ^
Shield punt or pro style punt? (I looked for images on this but didn't find any. The underlying question is: how open is he to evolving with the game?)
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:12 AM ^
had something like 4 winning season in the previous 15 before Spurrier including a gruesome 1-10, 0-11 stretch. He's done an admirable job there.
But JHFC are we really looking to South Carolina for solice. SOUTH CAROLINA!!!
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:14 AM ^
Um, he took over for Lou Holtz who had had a pretty good run at USC.....again, facts vs panic and hyperbole.
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:22 AM ^
Holtz left SC with 10 NCAA infractions as well so Spurrier had that put in his lap as well.
I think Holtz did this everywhere. ND and Minn as well
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:55 AM ^
Holtz was 16-19 in his last three years at USC. Hardly a great foundation to build upon.
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:13 AM ^
Michigan ≠ South Carolina. I can't believe I even have to make that statement. Spurrier took a historically crappy SC and made them good. Hoke has already had 2/3 substandard years, and is about to make it 3/4. At what point do we hold our coaches to a higher standard? To quote Hoke, "this is Michigan fergodsakes!" 4 years is plenty of time, and at most big-time schools it would even be considered generous.
September 23rd, 2014 at 10:59 AM ^
this. good talk.
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:13 AM ^
Yes, lets compare a mortal lock HOF head coach at a historically completely inept program that was on NCAA probation/sanctions for his first three years to Brady Hoke, taking over an admittedly down but nevertheless top-10 program and regressing every single year.
The worst part about the "wait and see!" theory is that it simply glosses over clear and undeniable errors committed by this coaching staff. If, and that is a HUGE if, Michigan were to somehow become successful under Hoke, it would necessarily be in spite of those errors, no? Why should fans settle for that? "We know you absolutely gloss over and fail at certain aspects of your job because reasons, but lets all ignore that because you may [evidence still being out] do certain other things well!" Seriously, it's like having a world-class heart surgeon who doesn't wash his hands.
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:13 AM ^
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September 23rd, 2014 at 9:17 AM ^
During Spurrier's 4th year, did his offense score 3 points over 8 consecutive quarters against non-cupcake opponents? It would be one thing if there were signs of improvement. There are not.
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:17 AM ^
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:25 AM ^
lost their last 5, albeit against a pretty tough schedule. The following fall they dropped 2 of their first 3, making it a 1-7 stretch, that same team lost its last 3 games. Over those two year SC went 13-12, but were just 7-11 after a 6-1 start to 2007.
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:21 AM ^
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:24 AM ^
The 2006 South Carolina team had the following losses:
0-18 @ #12 Georgia
17-24 vs #2 Auburn
24-31 vs #8 Tennessee
20-26 vs #12 Arkansas
16-17 @ #6 Florida
They were competitive in nearly every game against very good opponents in Spurrier's second season. Michigan is getting manhandled by mediocre Notre Dame and Utah teams in Hoke's fourth season. I'm not seeing the parallel.
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:31 AM ^
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:59 AM ^
"Yeah, lets fire the guy over some adversity that seems historically normal."
There is absolutely nothing historically normal about not getting into the Red Zone against power confrence opponents. For the last time, it's not just the wins and losses. It's that Michigan looks like one of the most poorly-coached, offensively-inept teams in the entire country, and does so with a bevy of extremely talented players.
Every single thing Hoke has preached since his arrival has been a complete disaster. Protect the ball? Dead last in turnover margin. Limit negative plays? 85th in TFLs allowed. Punishing running game? 3.3 YPC against Utah. Strong special teams? 84th in net punting. Force turnovers? 124th in takeaways. It's the opposite of everything that used to make Michigan a feared team.
If Hoke had 7 double-digit win seasons before coming here, including a national title, 2 Orange Bowl wins, two Sugar Bowl wins, and 9 conference championships, he might be getting a little more leeway. But he doesn't. He has a mediocre record with a MAC program and one decent year with SDSU.