Hoke's First Miss? [Discussion of Montgomery]

I don't think you can call this a miss if the compensation pacakgages (not just money) aren't equal.  To think anyone at all can retain the best talent when others are offering more than you can is absurd.  I think it's unreasonable to expect all the young talent to stick around when there are better offers just because "This is Michigan (fergodsakes)."  To me, Montgomery isn't a loss, it's a forgone conclusion.  You have people who are good at what they do, prove they can be successful and others will come courting them and offering more than you can, that's just how business works.  Maybe I'm way off base here but my reaction to Montgomery leaving is "congrats to him, it was only a matter of time", rather than "wtf outrage aneurysm" but that's just me.

Edit: not to mention, this is far from the "first no." We have had plenty of recruits choose other programs under Hoke's watch, check out any recruiting thread and plenty will be mentioned.

Hoke has missed plenty of times already. It's impossible to NOT miss at a head coach you are never going to get all the best players or make all the right decisions. I think it's a bit ridiculous to blame this on Coach Hoke at all though honestly. When you surround yourself with good people good people are eventually going to get picked up by others who want to pay them more or promote them.

I understand Montgomery is supposed to be a good recruiter but wasn't there an article done recently surveying the Michigan recruits and only a couple put down Montgomery as the big influence? Whereas most recruits were more attracted to Coach Heck, Mattison and Hoke.

Also, I think Hoke is much more than just a "salesman extraordinaire". Developing this team into what he has takes more than just selling michigan

It makes sense for Montgomery to leave, even if the pay packages are similar if only because it allows him to get more recognitiion. Think about it, every time someone talks about the strides our D-lineman make right now, it is about how both Hoke and Mattison started out as D-line coaches. No matter how good a job he does here, Montgomery will always be overshadowed. Although I do think it is a big loss and that he is a good to great coach, his decision is perfectly reasonable, given the circumstances.

Also, maybe he was sick of sharing his coaching duties with the headcoach and defensive coordinator.

Montgomery is leaving but I can't blame him or pin any failure on Hoke and Co. It's a tough racket, working your way up through the assistant coaching ranks. For every guy who gets a head job opportunity somewhere, there are probably dozens who never get one. It's a lot of travel for assistants in the off season, a lot of bouncing around from program to program (some by choice, other times by getting let go when head man gets canned), a tough life on a young family. I don't know Montgomery's personal situation, but I do know a couple of guys in their 30s who are in the assistant ranks. There are some tough, lean years.  Sticking around to be the position coach at one school long term is not a priority for most fo these guys, I wouldn't expect  (esp. when they're relatively young like Montgomery). Getting experience in different systems, exposure to other HCs, networking, etc. is the road many take to increase their chances of bigger opportunities.  Thank him for his effort while at M and let him go. Between Brady, the two coordinators, and the other guys who've seen some years in CFB, I have no doubt they'll bring in someone who will be good for the kids, good for the program, and good for the staff. 

is Greene?

I wouldn't call this a miss. Maybe, Oklahoma offered more money and responsibility. Maybe, Coach Montgomery wanted more autonomy with the D line instead of having Hoke and Mattison always intervening with his players. Maybe, he likes the atmosphere in Norman better. Maybe, he has some personality differences with his superiors here. Maybe he is close friends with someone on their staff. LIke any of us who has the chance to consider a new job opportunity, I'm sure he had to weigh several factors when making his decision. 

Hell, some guy named Mattison ditched UM for ND for the same level job after the 96 season...only to miss out on an all-time great defense and NC with Michigan in 97. He also left Baltimore only to miss out on a Super Bowl championship two years later [wait, maybe we want Mattison to quit...only kidding of course].

I wish Coach Montgomery the best of luck...unless UM ends up meeting OU in a bowl game.

I'm gonna go with those arguing that the "first miss" speculation goes way beyond what we can support with the information we have available, and would point out that we don't even know that Hoke wanted to keep Montgomery (though that's the logical assumption).

Speculation is fun and all, but there is a difference between informed speculation and, essentially, wild guessing.  This isn't the former.

Good luck and godspeed, Jerry Montgomery.  I hope that you pass this way again.

Coaching trees need branches. Gotta sow the seeds away from the main trunk. When Hoke went to Ball St or SDSU, was it Lloyd's miss?  

This is not a well thought out diary. I am shocked that you're only at -25 on this sort of speculative material.

In future, please just do better.

Career move for motgomery isn't a miss by hoke, and to put that out is a bit foolish imo.  It's no secret Montgomery is a very good dline coach or that Michigan can essentially have 3 dline coaches...  so I would guess far more comes down to career move, more responsibility.  Reconnecting with stoops, also Iowa alumni.. and many other things in it for Montgomery.....

Hoke, didn't block it, offered to match compensation and Mongomery still wanted to move on.

Most likely our staff hires a olber coach....  rather or not they hire an olber or dline coach for the replacement I am good with Hoke and Mattison selecting assistants...something I think is a great strength of theirs.   

Ummm... no.  Not his first, and most certainly won't be his last.  We didn't land Treadwell.  We didn't land Brionte Dunn.  There are a number of other recruits we didn't land.  Also, I don't have a great view of the personnel Hoke interviewed for the assistant coaching positions, but I would guess that though he probably got several of his first choices, I would bet he didn't get all.

And this is not a criticism of Hoke.  Statistically speaking, Brady Hoke will increase the probability of landing these high-quality individuals in both recruiting and assistant coaching positions.  But that doesn't mean the probability of landing and retaining everyone will go to 1.  It's just, better than it would have been without him.  And that's all any good to great program will have.  Even Nick Saban lost Poggi to us, and the Baltimore Ravens lost their DC.  It's the way it goes, and it's not something we should lose our minds over.  The preponderance of evidence so far still would indicate that Hoke has great abilities, and I'll eat my hat if he doesn't land a good replacement coach in some capacity.

It wasn't a miss. Hoke pulled his offer.

to be a HC at a top program. I don't see this as a Hoke miss, it is more of a resume building step for Mongomery.  You have Brady Hoke for whom you worked under and now Stoops, in a few years he may end up as a DC at a top program. I doubt his future DC job would last long since he will probably want that HC gig!  I wish him all the best on his career path!

What a dumbass post OP.  It was Coach Hoke who brought Montgomery to Michigan to begin with.  He stole him from IU who had just hired the assistant coach.  Montgomery is just a coach who is moving around to try to get up the ladder.  To call this a "miss" or even hint that it is a "miss" in any way, shape or form by Coach Hoke, would be one of the most spectactular epic dumbassian posts here by an "Michigan fan"...so dont do that.

I don't look at this as a "miss." Montgomery is a great coach and a great recruiter. He undoubtedly wanted to go somewhere that would help him advance his career. I do wonder how much autonomy he had with the defensive line being that Hoke and Mattison personally coach the line as well. My guess is not as much as he wanted, and if that's the case, there's little to nothing Hoke could have done to retain him.



Stoops probably came to him with an offer of more money and the ability to have complete, or near-complete autonomy over Oklahoma's defensive line coaching. Also, Oklahoma's recruiting doesn't seem like its been elite lately. At least not this year it wasn't, so they need someone like Montgomery.

even though 99% of the OP is positive.

I definitely agree that Hoke is sometimes underappreciated by a few commenters on this blog, and Brian's "Hoke poop" meme was certainly less fawning over the man than anything he said about Rich Rodriguez.

What I don't agree with is your original premise: that Hoke "failed" to keep Montgomery. You outline all the "successes" that Hoke has had, but ultimately you have to realize that you can't force someone to do something they don't want to do. We couldn't force Laquon Treadwell to commit to Michigan. Same goes for Jordan Diamond. We couldn't force Jim Harbaugh to take the HC job even though that's what a lot of fans wanted.

I really don't care anymore that Montgomery left or certainly why he left. I think because he was in on the most recent three commitments (and praise from Sam Webb for doing so) everyone is overshooting him as a "nationally recognized recruiter." All of our coaches recruit. Borges does, Mattison does, Hecklinski does, Mallory does, Funk (FUNK!!) does, and of course Hoke does.

Here's the thing you may have missed: Hoke's the one who hired all those guys. He hired Montgomery. He hired Mattison. Without Hoke, those guys aren't here. So in assessing "how big is the Montgomery loss?" you have to understand Montgomery, while important as any member of our staff, was not the heart and soul of the program, let alone the heart and soul of recruiting.

In the future I'd recommend you have a much less provocative title and first line. I imagine those are the primary reasons you are getting so many downvotes, even though the crux of your post is positive.

Fans are really overreacting to an assistant coach changing jobs. As much as I love Michigan, it is not a destination job for every person in this world. Coach Montgomery may have left for more money, responsibility or simply a change of scenery. Fact is people change jobs all the time. I moved from my hometown of Chicago and took significantly less money to go to Seoul because I wanted to try something different. Every person is different, and there is no need to panic when a young but talented coach decides to change jobs.

...do you have 2 upvotes? I demand a recount.

You're over thinking all of this.

I could barely get past the first paragraph. You killed your credibility by qualifying your "logic" with "I just got home from vacation". Meaning, my brain isn't functioning at a high level; I am still dreaming; I am drunk with euphoria.



Everything else, pure poppycock! Turrible!

I rarely hate on posts, but words cannot express my disdain for this one. I mean come on. People have been saying Michigan should be considered a final destination for a coach, but Associate Dline coach is most definitely not. Maybe he had better chance for upward mobility, maybe he wanted to prove his chops independent of Hoke and Mattison, maybe he just wanted to vary his own education by working with other coaches. The potential reasons are endless. Get used to it. Success inevitably leads to assistants getting hired elsewhere. This is not even remotely Hoke's responsibility.

Always be closing. Put that coffee down, coffee's for closers only.

I hate this post, not because it's idiotic- which it is.  But, because it makes Mike Valenti right. To think that a coach leaving to expand his resume' and take on new challenges is somehow betraying or tarnishing Hoke or the Michigan brand is just arrogant.  This is part of any person building a successful career in any business.  Michigan is certainly a destination for a Head Coach and possibly even for a coordinator, but NO school is a destination for a position coach. Simple as that.

Isn't it a compliment to Hoke that other big time programs want to hire away his assistants?

While I thought Jerry did a nice job recruiting and with development of the 3-5 techs, I'm not worried at all about it negatively affecting us on the field going forward. Where Jerry's departure does hurt is in the recruitment of the players he and the staff were currently in on. Being a young, energetic coach he obviously connects well with this generation more so then a lot of the older coaches. Obviously anyone he built a relationship with for the 2014/15 classes he has already begun talking them up on Oklahoma. It wouldn't be an issue if he left for Kentucky or Georgia tech, but leaving for a prestigious program like OU concerns me that some recruits may look at them just as hard as they will us when maybe before his move they hadn't even thought of OU.



Maybe I'm reading too much into this.



Going forward I expect Hoke to hire someone familiar with Michigan and someone that will make us all forget who this Jerry guy was to begin with.