Hoke-Speak - Can we put this to bed once and for all?
Every week now countless fans rant about Brady Hoke's responses after games and in pressers, but lost in those threads are the responses correcting them, and thus the message never seems to get through. So I thought I'd make a post to emphasize the following point:
We as fans have a long list of reasons to be frustrated with the state of the program and coaching staff, but Brady Hoke's comments to the media should not be on that list.
Most of you have read this before, but for some reason it doesn't seem to get through.
Hoke simply cannot throw Borges, Funk or his players under the bus.
Borges, Funk and some of his players have underperformed, but for the head coach to acknowledge this in any specific form beyond his bland "We need to execute better" retorts, would be tossing said coaches and/or players under the bus to some degree. Doing so would be counterproductive for Hoke's aspirations on three fronts:
(a) Drawing what little inspiration or drive remains from Borges and Funk and the players, given they'd likely mail it in themselves if alienated, thus further sabotaging what little hope there is on offense for the remainder of this season.
(b) Attracting decent replacement coordinators (assuming that is an option he is considering) because what coordinator would come work for a coach that didn't protect him.
(c) Recruiting because many players wouldn't appreciate a coach that didn't protect them to the media.
We're all frustrated and searching for answers to the debacle we've witnessed this season, and saw signs of last season (second half Nebraska/Ohio). But expecting those answers to come from Brady Hoke's pressers in the middle of the season is shortsighted.
Hoke's performance and that of his staff are fair game. But the answers we seek won't materialize until probably some time in early January when we can judge Hoke by his actions rather than words. He will either replace Borges and Funk which will answer many of our questions as to where his mind has actually been, or he will keep them on another year and live, but more likely die by the feint hope that a year's worth of recruits, weight training, practice reps and advancement in the program will right the offense's ship.
November 12th, 2013 at 12:37 AM ^
Sooner he's gone, the better. Nope don't want to go thorugh this again but what choice do we have -- assuming we want a winning program.
Late into year 3 is when a coach reveals where they are taking the program.
We have our answer.
November 12th, 2013 at 9:18 AM ^
It's never that simple.
Sure, in most cases year 3 gives you a good indication.
There are notable exceptions, though. MArk Dantonio, who everyone should concede is a pretty fricking good coach even if he is a ginormous bag of douche, started off at MSU going 7-6, 9-4, 6-7. By year 3, do you have a good idea where that program is going? Well, based on that alone, you might expect 7-8 wins will be his norm.
Oh wait. His next 4 years: 11-2, 11-3, 7-6, 8-1 (likely 10+ wins again, chance at Big Ten title).
You cannot hold every coach to a 3-year standard. It doesn't work that way. You can't act like Michigan is loaded with talent everywhere when reality is they are not. Oh sure, they have some great talent at skill positions...but I hope it's abundantly clear this year that the base of your team starts and ends at the lines, and without a solid base I don't care how good your position players are.
An example from the NFL: Eli Manning. He is a shell of a QB this year, because his OL was a disaster in blocking early this year and he got routinely sacked. Even his last couple of games, when the OL has improved blocking, Eli is still skittish. We're talking about a borderline elite NFL QB who has two superbowl rings here!
Point is, if the foundation of your team (the trenches) is a major weakness, then it doesn't much matter how much talent your skill players have. And who is responsible for the roster holes there right now? Not Hoke. His guys are too young. Yes, even in year 3, there are real reasons to believe Hoke will be much better than this year, and there are real reasons to think that the program is going in the right direction still.
Again, I find it asinine that anyone could think Hoke deserves to be fired after this season, considering we fired RR for doing MUCH more poorly, and even then many still felt he never got a fair shot (which honestly, he didn't).
November 12th, 2013 at 12:59 AM ^
I can't fathom, after 2 straight games with negative rushing yards, one of those games against a defense that has allowed a silly number of shitty teams to rush for over 200 yards, a coach even using coach speak to insinuate that the playcalling was in any way correct. He is basically telling us that the players can't do anything correctly if the playcalling was right. How else am I supposed to interpret that? If there is nothing wrong with the playcalling, and we ran for negative yardage, who does that fall on?
November 12th, 2013 at 1:26 AM ^
November 12th, 2013 at 1:53 AM ^
There are many many things to be upset/worried about this team. How Hoke answers questions during a press conference is not one of them.
November 12th, 2013 at 2:22 AM ^
November 12th, 2013 at 7:02 AM ^
November 12th, 2013 at 8:18 AM ^
November 12th, 2013 at 8:37 AM ^
Whoa whoa whoa. Why is it that someone has the right to demand half the necessary change but nobody needs to finish the job unless they're actually Brady Hoke? According to intertubez foolishness it's OK to DEMAND CHANGE because this is UNACCEPTABLE but hey, it's not my job to come up with an answer, I've pointed out the problem and that's all I have to do. Pay me Brady Hoke's salary and I'll talk about the rest? Silly.
November 12th, 2013 at 8:23 AM ^
November 12th, 2013 at 10:25 AM ^
Well Big Boy, that's why Brady gets paid millions, not me. Mack has won 6 straight with GERG.
So I'm sure if Brady is as capable as his salary indicates he should have some ideas.
November 12th, 2013 at 3:53 PM ^
"t's Tuesday and you just fired Borges and funk. We have practice tomorrow. Who is coaching the OL?"
Adam Stenavich.
"Who is devising the offensive gameplan?"
Jeff Hecklinski.
"Who are you hiring today that you want to lead your offense for the next 5 years?"
No one. We'll worry about long term replacements after the season.
November 12th, 2013 at 10:48 AM ^
Query: would he have changed DC's mid season if that had not been the case?
November 12th, 2013 at 4:12 AM ^
November 12th, 2013 at 5:25 AM ^
Like you said CLord, it's been explained to them ad nauseam, so at this point I'm forced to believe they are either stupid or willfully ignorant.
One group can't be reasoned with, and the other simply refuses to accept reason in favor of "RABBLE RABBLE!"
Take your pick.
November 12th, 2013 at 6:07 AM ^
If it was all coach speak, all a mirage, then we would have seen some changes after PSU and certinly after MSU.
We did not.
Stop fooling yourselves.
November 12th, 2013 at 6:58 AM ^
As much as it sucks, we are stuck with the current staff until January. Will there be changes at that point? Perhaps , or perhaps Hoke believes that the entire problem is youth and wants to give the current staff another year for stability.
November 12th, 2013 at 7:19 AM ^
November 12th, 2013 at 8:43 AM ^
I'm not talking staff changes. Even I'm anti getting rid of Borges mid season. That's nonsense.
I'm talking gameplan changes. Throw some different looks out there.
If Brady Hoke truly did not like the gameplan, he would have changed it.
Instead, we rushed for negative yards for the second week in a row running into the middle of a dumpster fire line.
But yeah, Brady probably tore him a new one behind closed doors! Next game will be different!
November 12th, 2013 at 8:15 AM ^
November 12th, 2013 at 8:41 AM ^
I would have a) kept Borges, I don't know where you're referencing that I would can him midseason
b) done anything other than running power into a terrible line, game after game after game.
November 12th, 2013 at 6:10 AM ^
November 12th, 2013 at 6:55 AM ^
It's not a lie, if you believe it.....
November 12th, 2013 at 8:05 AM ^
November 12th, 2013 at 9:40 AM ^
judgy towards Hoke about it either, I get that I'm the minority I just remember Rodriguez being direct and honest and people went nuts about it like you said. I personally liked it because when people avoid the truth we all know what it is anyways and it feels fake and demeaning to me in the audience.
Although I absolutely do not like Dave Brandon's lies in press conferences and interviews because I feel like he acts like I'm stupid for not believing his lies.
November 12th, 2013 at 2:32 PM ^
You can't win with the MGoIdiots and the talk radio show goons.
Hoke uses coach speak and everyone bashes him for it.
Rich Rod was extremely forthright and everyone bashed him for it.
Rich Rod was totally on point when he said a lot of fans "need to get a life."
November 12th, 2013 at 6:27 AM ^
Thanks for posting this. Much needed.
November 12th, 2013 at 7:17 AM ^
Basically, i agree (and was even thinking of posting the same).
The questions is "when will we get more info on what Hoke really thinks?"
I think it is after the season. If the offense keeps cratering, and Borges does not get let go... well, draw your own conclusions then.
Until then, Hoke is just dealing with reality: there is no reason to make Borges look bad during the middle of the season. His answers even seemed prepared: he knew what the media was going to ask about, and he had simple and clear answers.
November 12th, 2013 at 9:25 AM ^
to indicate that despite what he actually says, he is aware of the issues.
I mean, how many wry smirks has he given at these pressers? Almost like he knows what the media wants to hear, but he refuses to give it to them.
It's really boring But it is what it is. Bill Bellichek is the worst press conference coach of all time...but obviously that has nothing to do with his success as a coach.
Every coach has their style. This is Hoke's.
November 12th, 2013 at 8:06 AM ^
November 12th, 2013 at 8:14 AM ^
November 12th, 2013 at 2:33 PM ^
Pretty much.
November 12th, 2013 at 8:20 AM ^
I appreciate what you are saying. And you are correct at the core. The pressers have no bearing on the results. But since the results are sooooo bad, I still reserve the right to make fun of him, right? Can't I still make fun of him? When you sound like an incompetent boob, you are going to be the butt of jokes. I am going to still make fun of him. Just want to be clear.
November 12th, 2013 at 9:49 AM ^
we probably should have called some of the plays differently, and we are evaluating what will work better including effective counters moving forward" would go a long way - instead of:
Do you still like the play calling after you looked at the film? “Yeah. There’s not even a question about it.”
My issue with Hoke-speak is by 100% supporting Borges and saying we just didn't execute / are too young, the blame is being passed from a high (over) paid coordinator who should be designing plays with counters that fit the capabilities of the young personnel they have to those young personnel (who for better or worse are who they are).
I support the players. Much like GERG and Gibson failed the 2010 team, I think this offensive coaching staff is failing the 2013 team.
November 12th, 2013 at 8:31 AM ^
Fire Borges. That's all I can really contribute at this time.
November 12th, 2013 at 9:44 AM ^
about your signature doesn't match your sentiment...
November 12th, 2013 at 12:19 PM ^
I support coach Hoke but something tells me Bo would've canned Borges's sorry ass already, or at least he would know what's going on.
November 12th, 2013 at 8:43 AM ^
November 12th, 2013 at 8:56 AM ^
For those of you who are frustrated that people on here can't grasp the idea that what Hoke says to the media is indicative of basically nothing (despite nearly 3 years and probably around 100 press conferences), I'll say what you are probably thinking:
This board has recently become over loaded with the level of insight and thinking that is the hallmark of fans posing comments on MLive and Freep. It's drastically undermining the quality of this site.
Also, if you start your post with words similar to: "while I agree that he can't throw them under the bus, he still needs to", then you actually don't agree that he can't throw them under the bus. Because if he says much beyond what he always says, he would in fact be throwing them under the bus.
So if you want more, then you really want him to deeply undermine the team in the public. When he does that, you'll still pick it apart as unsatisfactory anyways.
Ugh.
November 12th, 2013 at 9:13 AM ^
"We're gonna believe in each other, we're not gonna criticize each other, we're not gonna talk about each other, we're gonna encourage each other."
November 12th, 2013 at 12:43 PM ^
we're not on The Team.
That said, I do hope they are doing this inside the Fort.
November 12th, 2013 at 9:15 AM ^
Hoke was trained to act in front of the media by Lloyd and Bo. It's the opposite of Les Miles.
Anyway, the problem is that Hoke is coming across as ignorant and a fool, with his generic answers to the press. That doesn't help him, Borges, Funk, or the players out.
When opposing players say they knew the play calls, because they were prediuctable and Hoke dismisses it, he looks ignorant.
November 12th, 2013 at 9:18 AM ^
but then the fans are allowed to not like what he does or does not say. He is the CEO of the football program and the buck stops with him. I have been part of a couple of companies that have gone through tough times. One CEO did a great job of rallying the troups (fans) to get us through it, without having to throw any management under the bus. The other CEO did not, and we lost a lot of great talent through the transition.
I think it is frustrating as a fan to watch two games with historically bad rushing, and not admitting there was anything wrong with the game plan. I know RR got a lot of heat for saying you can't fix youth in regards to his defense. Michigan has plenty of talent on offense that should be enough to hide the youth. Saying he doesn't owe the fans anything, is not understanding that his product is fully supported because of the fans.
November 12th, 2013 at 10:56 AM ^
November 12th, 2013 at 9:51 AM ^
So him saying the playcalling is bad would implicitly throw Borges and Funk under the bus. Fine.
But by that same logic, doesn't him saying the EXECUTION is bad implicitly throw the PLAYERS under the bus? That's even worse.
November 12th, 2013 at 1:10 PM ^
I guess you could interpret it that way, but blaming "execution" is generally considered to be within the pale. Some coaches will develop the point further to stress that if the players didn't execute, it's the staff's fault for not preparing them to do so.
November 12th, 2013 at 9:55 AM ^
even though half the people here got the vapors when he didn't say the things they wanted him to say. I only really cared about his actual staffing and player decisions and what happened on the field during games (obviously the two are directly linked), and what happened at game time is what ultimately got him fired, not his lousy instincts for public relations.
I don't really care about what Brady Hoke says at a presser, either, and it doesn't matter to me in the slightest that he's not directly criticizing coaches or individual players. I don't enjoy listening to him because he's less articulate than many 12-year-olds, but the only thing that truly matters to me is what staffing and player decisions he makes and what happens on the field during games. There's enough to criticize in the latter without getting all worked up about HokeSpeak.
November 12th, 2013 at 9:55 AM ^
The frustration is that by repeating endlessly about execution all of the time, Hoke sounds like either he doesn't see any problems with this team, or he doesn't have any ideas on how to fix them other than the players getting better. Execution is a fine explanation for one game. Every team has a game where they lose because they don't execute.
But when the team is clearly getting worse at the same things each week, and all Hoke says is that they didn't execute, that doesn't work any more. If the team truly isn't executing each week, then that is on the coaching staff and changes need to be made. Otherwise, Hoke needs to start acknowledging that there are problems and talking about ways they are going to fix them. Then, they need to actually change things on the field.
The anger and frustration from the fans doesn't come so much from the words Hoke uses, but more from that he uses the same words each week, the team performs the same or worse each week, and there is no reason at this point for the fanbase to have any confidence that anything is going to change any time soon.
November 12th, 2013 at 10:03 AM ^
He just doesn't know what he's doing all of the time.
November 12th, 2013 at 10:07 AM ^
I happen to share that view, or at least suspect that it's true, but not because of what he's saying at pressers. It's what's happening (or not happening) on the field that makes me think that.