Hoke says right now first team OL is: LT David Dawson, LG Kyle Bosch, C Graham Glasgow, RG Kyle Kalis, RT Ben Braden
Hoke says right now first team OL is: LT David Dawson, LG Kyle Bosch, C Graham Glasgow, RG Kyle Kalis, RT Ben Braden
welp. see you 2015, folks.
Have you looked at our depth chart? With Magnuson out for spring with shoulder surgery and Bryant taking a medical, I thiink this was the most likely outcome. The only other player who probably was an option was maybe Bars. Mason Cole hasnt't taken a snap of college football yet, and Chris Fox was coming off a torn ACL. Kugler and LTT were expected to take longer to develop.
Ohio State is replacing 4 senior starters and has less experience coming back than MIchigan. It's college football. You need kids to step up and fill new roles every year. Hopefully, our highly touted OL recruits from the last 2 years continue to grow and surprise this fall.
LTT is out with an injury, as well.
I thought Kugler was a more ready to play kind of lineman due to his dad being a coach and all.
Henry Poggi is also a coach's son. But both of them were way too light to be immediate impact players and needed at least a year or two in the weight room.
Kugler is listed at 287 lbs BTW.
Sure they all need to bulk up but Kugler's scouting report says he has the technique and Brian's upshot included a "nonzero" chance of him winning a job in his first two years. LTT's write-ups seemed to carry the 'project' moniker have a Junior year or later outlook.
I think it has more to do with not messing with the Center position now that they have something that works in Glasgow than Kugler not being ready, but that's just my speculation. If it's clear through Spring Camp that he's clearly better, I think Glasgow get's bumped out to guard.
What's wrong with that? It's essentially our same starters at the inside spots, we assumed Braden would be one of the starting tackles, and Dawson is a placeholder until Magnuson gets back.
What worries me is that the 'placeholder' is at LT, which would imply he's passing Braden, no.
I wonder what's holding Braden up at this point.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, hopefully Braden is staying at RT for the sake of continuity, which is a good idea.
You mean for the national title game? Sounds good to me.
I just upvoted you and your score went from 4 to 6!!! 2 POINTS! I WIELD GREAT, MYSTERIOUS POWER!!!
Aren't up votes worth 2?
I upvoted you once and you went from 897 to 899 so it does appear that they are worth 2 points.
you're going to have more MGoPoints than Brian at the end of the year.
You're such a great fan.
Not a huge surprise with Mags out. We had heard Dawsom was competing at tackle. The news that LTT was out (per what I read on twitter) was surprising though. Hope he gets well. He has that prototypical LT frame. Hope he can learn to use it.
Hoke said LTT was having hand surgery around signing day I believe.
Thanks. I forgot, but now that you said it, it rings a bell.
That hand is injured!!!!
That Dawson makes a great all around O-Lineman. I guy that can play several of the positions well will be very valuable..
Damn. That's a young line. We all knew it would be obviously but it doesn't really hit you til the coaches say it directly. A lot of experience on the interior though.
Yeah, as soon as Bryant took a medical, there were really no older options. Who else is there? Miller as a RS junior, that's it. Kugler, Dawson, Mags, LTT, Bars...all underclassmen. But yeah, at least the starting line has a year of nomianl starting experience under their belt. And the most experience at center probably helps as well.
Dawson will have us forgetting about Lewan in no time!
Is it just me or do wasn't Dawson supposed to be a guard? The mean, short-armed road grader?
Yeah, Hoke even said at one point that they saw him more as a guard, but that they think he can help them out at tackle.
Dawson is an athletic beast. He moves his feet very well. He can play inside or out. This line has potential with prpoer coaching.
is arm length? Maybe he can work on improving that.
I bet Dawson could bench Taylor Lewan. Even Taylor Lewan can't bench Taylor Lewan, therefore Dawson is an upgrade.
Dawson at LT? Isn't he like 6'4? Well I hope they get all the different lineup variations out the way now so they can gell and develop some chemistry.
6'4" is still tall for an OL. 6'0" or 5'11" linemen, however, is cause for concern. And even that's relative.
Exactly, as long as he blocks someone, it doesn't bother me what height or weight he is.
Most prototype O-Lineman at the LT position are 6'6 to 6'8 range. Even if you look at our LT's, they're normally very tall. I don't expect Dawson to stick at LT and chalk this up as experimenting and dealing with the injury to Magnuson.
Actually, I think the ideal LT is 6'6-6'8. I believe Brian linked an article a couple years back about how the average NFL LT is about 6'5. One issue was that most guys are measured taller than they are and I think the article was meant to shed light on height not being indicative of success and it noted that the focus around height revolved more around the longer arms that came with height, I believe.
Go South (St. Street), Young Men
I think all these guys will be good. I'm just not sure as a whole they'll be good this year, which sucks.
Only one of those guys has the word "freshman" after their name. That's at least a step in the right direction.
And he'll likely get bumped when Magnuson gets back.
That's a young line right there. The lack of OL recruiting is really starting to stick out.
The 4th and 5th year guys are from the 2010 and 2011 classes right now. These were lost recruiting clases both on OL and for DT/NT. We're just young as all get out in the positions where you need 22-year-old grown men.
Best case scenario would have been all the 2012 recruits panning out after two years on campus, which is unrealistic and would still yield an incredibly young line.
not so long ago this would have been exciting news. What the hell happened??
Now I wonder if Magnuson were healthy right now, who would be on the right side, Dawson or Braden? Have to think that you would have the 2nd team guy take reps at left so the starter can focus solely on the position he'll most likely play, but who knows.
I think you're correct - Braden is playing RT because he'll be the starter there, and Dawson is in for Magnuson to get reps since he's likely the next healthy tackle, maybe even next guy in anywhere (like Magnuson was at the beginning of the season last year).
maybe they just think dawson has the most talent and has progessed enough. it can be argued hes most athletic OL theyve brought in so far although bosch and kugler would be in that conversation. as long as he does not have stubbier arms of 6'2" guys then 6'4" 300 is fine for OT as long as he has great hands and punch and moves his feet well. obviously not everyone has lewans prototypical size - and many 6'6" plus type kids just dont have the athleticism to get it done against edge rushers, theres only so many massive kids on this planet who will ever be remotely coordinated enough to excel at LT. many seemed to mention dawson this past season as being very impressive, including hoke, although im sure they tried to keep chatter to minimum given the situation etc. my guess would be they see dawson as their most athletic OL on the edge at this point with enough ability to reroute and mirror rushers. and i think most would agree braden, though hyped and penciled in as starter over past few seasons/offseasons, probably has not shown enough in 1v1 siutations for coaches to trust on island yet. ive been all for dawsons bump out to OT - not that it matters though considering the coaches recruited themselves into a corner with like 10 OGs and 2-4 earmarked OTs (with minimum 2 of those OTs being multi year projects in need of complete body overhauls before truly lining up)
They just have to execute.
Cannot. Too young. Need birthdays.
Both of the comments above are true. They need to execute, as every player does. They are young and relatively inexperienced, which means they will struggle to execute. Sad but true.
Why is everyone saying this is such a young line? When Mags gets back, you have four (4) third year guys starting in Mags, Glasgow, Kalis, and Braden.
That's no younger than any other team in America. Let's stop making excuses for third year guys. Time to put up or shut up.
I have my doubts about whether that's true or not. I would venture a guess that many teams - if not most - have at least a couple juniors and/or seniors starting.
Won't he actually be a RS Junior next year?
Will be Redshirt Sophomore. He's in his third season.
I don't think your point really hinges on this, but he's definitely a RS Junior.
Even older than I anticipated. Why in the world did I think Glasgow was a RS Sophomore. Definitely no excuses then. So correction:
3rd year across the line. The time to produce is now, not next year ---> which we hear every year.
Third year guys. They are technically juniors. Let's not baby them like they just got here.
magnus, do you view what seems as a lack of elite succession plan at LT, as a fail on recruiting? i mean, it seems that there is no elite recruit that was planned to take Lewan's spot in our glorified LT history.... maybe it was Braden...maybe it was LTT.. i dont know.. .but Magnuson from the sound of it doesnt seem like hes big enough. Im wondering where that elite recruit is.
If there's no one ready within the next year or two, then yes, I would think it's a failure in recruiting/development. However, I don't really think that will be the case. I don't see why Magnuson can't be that guy, and personally, I have been expecting Magnuson to take that spot. His injury obviously hurts that plan, but that's kind of a different subject. I also think Tuley-Tillman has the ability to be a high quality left tackle if he works on his body and technique.
In summary, Michigan has two highly rated tackles (Magnuson, Tuley-Tillman) who were recruited to succeed Lewan, and another highly rated guy (Dawson) who was a guard-tackle tweener coming out of high school. If Michigan can't find a quality tackle out of those three, then something is wrong.
They took our jobs!!!!
I would hope they didn't recruit guys who are not able to play until 4th or 5th year!
Magnuson is recovering from surgery, mind you.
But I think it's pretty much known that he will start at one of the tackle positions. In an ideal world, Miller would beat out Glasgow at center and we could go:
Mags - 3rd year
Glasgow/Bosch - 3rd year, 2nd year
Miller - 4th year
Kalis - 3rd year
Braden - 3rd year
If anyone else is going to take the center job, I suspect it will be Kugler
Did anyone else notice our offense sucked after Miller went to the bench. We put up 59 on CMU and 41 up against ND, and suddenly our great coaching staff decided they'd change something that was working (halfway decent at least).
because of Jack Miller. I don't like putting players down but Jack Miller should never see real minutes again unless he MASSIVELY improves everything about his game. Go back and watch the tape, Miller was consistently giving up penetration and getting beat play after play because he was so small. It was one of the most impressive things about Gardners performance, he took hit after hit and stared down the rush and still stayed in the pocket to complete throws (except for a few exceptions like "the worst play in the history of football"). Miller couldn't block guys from Akron and UConn and the coaches didn't want DG getting killed (though he did anyway). That is because we didn't have an adequate replacement for Glasgow at LG. The coaches were stuck between a rock and a hard place, take out the undersized Center who you KNOW can't hold up in B1G play and put in the Freshamn at LG who have sized but have technique and playbook issues so they are going to make A LOT of mistakes, which they did. Miller was consistently blown up at the line of scrimmage in the first 4 games and would have looked worse in B1G play. If we had one more at least adequate player we would have been alright this year but we didn't, hopefully our interior plays a lot better cause I'm not holding out a lot of hope for the tackles.
I mean Miller may not have been great, but the offense worked with him (against ND, a team with the best interior DL we played all year). The offense did not work against... well basically everyone else when it was Glasgow's responsibility to make line calls.
That's not to say Glasgow did not do a decent job on his assignments; I'm just of the assumption that we messed with something that was working. After we messed with the pieces that were working and putting up points, we no longer had a functioning offense.
This is nonsense akin to the line of thinking that says Eli is the better Manning because he has more Super Bowl rings. The end result (the offense scoring points) cannot possibly be attributed to Jack Miller alone, particularly when video evidence proves that he was not playing well.
Maybe the offense's struggles can be tied to Funchess's full time move to WR. We sucked after he moved. Must be because of the move. Doesn't matter that he was more productive at his new position or that his replacement, Butt, was pretty good. He moved, and the offense sucked after, so there's your reason.
It had absolutely nothing at all with teams having film to view at that point which showed them the best way to attack was up the middle.
Are you serious? Video evidence? So you're telling me that Max Bullough running un-impeded up the middle twelve straight times right at Glasgow shows he was a far and away a better option? I will take Miller getting pushed back by an All American at ND and 41 points any day over -48 rushing yards vs MSU and an offense that couldn't move the ball against a blind Northwestern defense.
I thought the OL got far worse after Miller went to bench.. .... maybe it coincided with the Big Ten schedule starting.... it appeared to be a panic move because they werent playing ideal, but then when Miller to bench, it did ok the first game or two then faded fast and appeared to be far worse... at this point Id rather see Miller at C.
I was never too down on Miller. I just thought that he wasn't physically strong enough at this point to hold up. It was a weird season. Like you mention, it seems whenever they made a move or switch up, it seemed to work well for a short time then it would fall apart.
Glasgow is also 4th year, as someone pointed out above.
Hopefully these young guys bond together, become a brotherhood, and wear a chip on their shoulders. The talent is there, and if they have the right attitude, approach, and scheme and they'll be better than our line last year.
I get the feeling this offensive line, while better than last year's, will struggle in a different way. I can picture an improved run blocking line, and probably a little better at handling the blitzes up the middle, but I would also be conerned about teams with good pass rushing DEs now. I'm not looking forward to OSU running Spence, Washington, Bosa, etc. up aginast our tackles. I am hopeful Kalis blossoms this year and Dawson and Bosch show that mean streak and give us a little toughness up front, but I'm a little concerned...oh well what else is new.
Good point. Taylor Lewan was Taylor Lewan, and nobody on the roster can come close to providing the one-on-one advantage he gave us on the edge. I can live with getting beat off the edge every now and then if it means more than 2 yards per carry.
Don't forget Schofield. He got no credit nationally but he's gonna be an NFL tackle too
Agree, but at the same time that's the 12th game in the season so the line will have a lot more experience and hopefully have improved quite a bit. If the OSU game was in September, it'd be a whole different story.
LT: uh....anyone wanna try tackle while Magnusson and LTT are hurt?
LG: The true freshman we were playing there last year.
C: At the moment we're not yet ready to move the best returning player of the unit.
RG: We're going to keep putting him here until he turns into Steve Hutchinson, because that is about the only way we're going to get a Steve Hutchinson out of him.
RT: At least "he's a right tackle and nothing else" is a plausible response to why he didn't play when the interior was a tire fire.
Glasgow looked ok at G but not at C. He could pull well at G but at C appeared ineffective having to snap ball.
Am curious what big recruit was to be Lewans successor at LT. seems like its patchwork now.
Glasgow had TWO snap issues that I remember!!! Its not like this was a systemic issue where he had multiple every game or even ONE a game. Of the hundreds of plays he snapped the ball he had 2 mistakes, for a guy playing center for the first time in his life I'll take that. While it'd be awesome if Glasgow could be kicked back out to guard it's not because he's a bad center, he was more that adequate last year, it's because I think he is a pretty darn good guard and it would mean having a 3-4 year starter at center in Kugler which would be the best case scenario going forward.
I believe there were 3 or 4 bad snaps, actually, but regardless, the snapping issues disappeared by the last couple games (Ohio State, Kansas State). So that doesn't appear to be an issue, and I'm guessing he'll get that sorted out even better through spring ball and by the fall.
Im referring to actually slowing down, having to now snap a ball.... he could move well at guard...had decent 'movement' as Bo would say... but not at C. I wasnt referring to any bad snaps, at all.
I like the idea that the OL is going to have to develop a new leader from presumably Taylor Lewan. Nothing against TL, but theres something powerful about having to find a new leader, new direction and a do it yourself attitude (meaning as a group there are no more All-American type players to rely on).
Its one thing to weigh like an OL, quite another to develop that mass into a machine that can roll back aggressive DLs.
Last year seemed really disjointed in so many ways it was hard to identify a single cause. I've read that the latest strategy hints of desperation. I'll take a little desperation in the face of adversity (just not despair!), sometimes it can break down philosophical barriers and open up new ways of thinking or doing that previous conservatism or paternalistic thinking wouldn't allow.
Hoke is ultimately going to be judged on a 6 year body of work. I dont care if we find Saban crying and sucking on his thumb on the corner of Stadium and Main, wringing his hands and begging for a chance to coach the Maizen Blue for a dime a year. Hokes going to get 6 years. Personally I hope its an easy choice at that point to offer 6 more, because it will mean recruiting is stabilized and the orderly progression from underclassmen to upperclassmen will have stabilized as well, so the organization doesn't have to rely on throwing a bunch of first year players on the field and hope they don't get run over by the veterans from other squads.
I'm going to put up a sign post here (a little prematurely) but if Hoke can make it to the 12 year mark he's going to be my favorite Michigan HC of alltime. Not that I didn't like the others...but Hoke will have steered the ship thru the rocky shores of adversity without sinking it in a way that the others didn't have to.
was my question. I mean, if this is the starting five that gets us to Indianapolis, I'm all for it. Dawson always struck me as an interior guard, Magnuson and Kugler had frames better suited for tackle, although Kugler might be the best player so we'd put him at center. This was how I understood things.
Granted, I think Glasgow staying at center is good. I really don't want to see more "shuffling" like we saw last year. And the fact that Hoke is able to list a starting five OL this early should be something of a relief. Last year, we didn't even know who was center going into the spring game or coming out of the spring game or going into August. So, my gut says this is good that we have an answer this soon.
I JUST WANT THE OL TO BE EFFECTIVE DAMMIT! Then Green and Smith can each get 1,000 yards Wiscy-style and we can put all this nonsense to rest!
Any word on Chris Fox's recovery?
Yeah, forgot all about Fox. It would be nice to get him in the mix. He was one that alot thought would challenge for playing time early in his career.
I read the thread title and thought that the J. Ira and Nicki Harris Family Head Football Coach at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor had become so enamored with his new title that he also had made himself a first stringer on Michigan’s offensive line. (Now, has anyone purchased the naming rights for Michigan's offensive line this season?)
I think it's going to be FEMA.
What say you about the current line configuration and where do you think the player project best? For example a lot of people seem to like Glasgow better at Guard than center. Are Miller or Kugler capable enough at C to allow Glasgow to move back to guard or is that just weakening 2 spots in an effort to improve 1?
I realie you're not paging me, but asking if Miller and Kugler are capable of bumping Glasgow back to guard seems like kind of an odd question. First of all, Glasgow already unseated Miller for the center position. Secondly, nobody has seen Kugler play football since high school, so how would Space Coyote know the progress he's made?
Anyway, my opinion is that this is just about the best configuration possible. Miller looked bad last year, and I've never been high on Bars or Samuelson. Considering Cole is just a freshman and Tuley-Tillman is out with the hand injury, there aren't really many other configurations that could even make sense.