High School Workouts
I was floored last year when Tate said he had never lifted weights, considering that Marv Marinovich was his personal QB Coach and he had his kid lifting since the age of 10. I'm still not sure I believe it, but the stories coming out of early conditioning where everyone was making fun of him brought me to 50/50.
Now we get even more news like this that Richard Ash has never lifted weights. So I guess I put this out to the board around the country. How is this possible?? Pahokee has one of the better teams in the state if I recall correctly and they don't lift weights?? I know it is a poor area, but the school has no weights??
I grew up in the 80's in Warren, Mi which is/was a very well funded school district, but not a rich area by any stretch. Our teams were mediocre and we couldn't even play for the team unless we completed the offseason weightlifting program and took weightlifting as our gym elective in school. This was 20 years ago before the importance of training took off. Do other schools not have weight rooms around the country??
Frankly listening to the recruits on the podcasts I was amazed that many of them weren't all too concerned about their offseason conditioning and they expected to start next year. Some were lifting weights, but I would have assumed guys like Christian, Carvin, Talbott etc... who had a chance to play next year would be in a Barwis designed workout regimen that they were grinding on getting ready, but it didn't appear the case. It sounded like most of them would run some track, work out a little and show up in June ready to start.
Curious what people think of this. Are the kids exaggerating and they are really lifting?? Do some poorer areas not have weight programs?? Do certain regions of the country not stress the weight program?? I find it all very bizarre, considering the attention on athletics and training nowadays.
February 9th, 2010 at 9:05 AM ^
I think that is their "weight-training program."
February 9th, 2010 at 10:35 AM ^
Hills in Florida? No such thing here sir! If anything, they should go do some training on the (Barwis) beach...that always kicked my ass.
February 9th, 2010 at 1:22 PM ^
There is a hill. I remember seeing a documentary about Pahokee football and the players ran a hill.
Here's a quote from an ESPN article about Pahokee:
"Soon, prep football players will climb up and down this hill -- backward, on their toes, on one foot, on their stomachs."
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=adelson/070416
February 9th, 2010 at 2:04 PM ^
didn't they also chase and catch(!!!) rabbits or is that another area?
February 9th, 2010 at 9:09 AM ^
In the old days, many coaches and parents thought that lifting would make kids bulky, less flexible, and more prone to injuries. This was especially true of certain positions or sports such as Qb, Pitcher, and Basketball.
This has been proven to be incorrect, but the myth remains and some cannot get past it. As an example, go to just about any sports site and mention that your middle-school aged son if lifting weights. 99% of the people on there will have a cow. Nevermind that the American Academy of Pediatrics not only approves of weight training in pre-puberty children, but gives program recommendations as well.
We went through this with my son. He started lifting when he was 9 following the AAP recommendations.
February 9th, 2010 at 9:17 AM ^
are 1 thing, but these are high school kids (say 14-17). In my HS (suburban NJ) we had a weight lifting club where athletes would lift (along with regular Joes). There is also a local gym where a bunch of football players lift.
I also don't understand why high school football players do not lift weights.
February 9th, 2010 at 10:17 AM ^
http://tiny.cc/5r5ud
In this link they are recommending weights for preadolescents (in boys 11-13 y.o.s).
Have they revised this again?
February 9th, 2010 at 11:00 AM ^
It's been several years and a few laptops ago. I'll see if I can find it if you are genuinely interested. It made note of pre-pubescent many times.
I'm not a Dr, so it's not my area of expertise. I was just researching because my son wanted to start lifting with me and I wanted to know as much as possible before telling him yes or no.
February 9th, 2010 at 4:27 PM ^
hypotonia (it's a long story) but regardless, I would like to get her lifting when it is medically indicated. She already does the 1 pounder with me in the basement - just to be like me (she's not too many pounds off.)
We have been advised not to do this for her joints sake until she starts preadolescence (this varies for girls considerably - but in general is 10-12), not to mention she's got a lot of hand eye coordination that can be worked out with normal activity and regular sports participation on her plate.
February 9th, 2010 at 10:27 AM ^
Good info, I have my first son on the way and its never too early to think about a strength training regime for him! Better keep him away from Kiffin though until he's at least 13!
February 9th, 2010 at 12:21 PM ^
9 year old lifting it's likely not because they are worried that the kid's flexibility or technique will suffer...it's because such parents that have their kids lifting at 9 are viewed as the sports equivalent of those psychotic stage moms that have their 7 year old daughter caked in makeup dancing on a stage at a beauty pageant...
February 9th, 2010 at 9:17 AM ^
Some high schools really don't have a weight program as a result of funding issues. Others do, but with very poor facilities. One reason players from Texas are so college ready compared to other states is the emphasis they put on strength and conditioning. Of course, these schools also have the best facilities due to the incredible emphasis on high school football in the state of Texas.
February 9th, 2010 at 12:31 PM ^
coming from the high school I did (carson city-crystal in montcalm county), its hard for me to believe that schools don't have funding for at least a basic weight room. Our team was horrible, and still is. I think we have won 2 games in the last 2 years. plus its small, i graduated with 69 kids back in '01. if a small, hick school with a football team that has sucked since I have been around can find funding for a weight room, any school can. Oh, did I mention the school district is dirt poor also?
February 9th, 2010 at 9:24 AM ^
it is the use of improper technique that is the danger. My 7th grader started lifting last spring with our HS program and seemed to enjoy it so I took him over the summer during the HS dead period and was appalled at the total lack of technique. Everyone seemed concern with how much they could lift instead of during the lifts properly.
February 9th, 2010 at 9:31 AM ^
I still work out regularly and 90% of the people in the gym have no idea what they are doing and many of them look like they are in shape leading to the theory even if you do it completely wrong if you do enough there is some value to it.
The beautiful thing for your son and his buddies is that their bodies can bounce back from just about anything at that age so when they shred something trying to do their max bench, they can bounce back quickly. It's the 45yr old dude still trying to look tough with 2 spotters and 350lb's on the bench who can't even do 1 rep before they have to pull it off him that is in trouble, or the guy doing curls that doesn't actually move his arms, but rocks back and forth waiting for his back to lock up on him that scares me.
February 9th, 2010 at 10:36 AM ^
See the same thing at my gym. Most people with poor form no matter which age. I would definately start teaching a youngster who wants to lift/workout the proper form first, before adding resistance. Kids can bounce back from any number of things (I'm still alive after eating appx. 5,000 hot dogs and a million cookies as a youngster for instance) but be very scared about improper form and techniques being performed by a youngster; especially lumbar exercises. I really wish that someone would have taken the time with me when I was younger to teach me proper form with deadlifts for instance. Hurt my lower back in my teens performing deadlifts, and to this day it still aches. Nothing the Docs can do short of surgery, and an in-shape 29 y/o doesnt want to have back surgery at his age. Thankfully my lower back isnt getting worse and is actually feeling better as I strengthen the muscles around the area.
February 9th, 2010 at 10:43 AM ^
is with the way he was doing curls as on the decline they were only going down to 90 degree and using their back like you were talking about. Seeing as he plays QB/CB, PG in basketball, and is a catcher in baseball I really want him to be able to extend his arm fully.
Our local HS was blessed as we got a bunch of the equipment from the old weightroom at Michigan pre Barwis at a very good price. So while the room itself is small we do have some top notch equipment.
February 9th, 2010 at 10:18 AM ^
I coached at a school that was blessed with a phenomenal weight facility, but few kids that took advantage of it. Now there is a superb lifting coach who inspires the students to give excellent effort and teaches proper technique fundamentals at the middle school age. Now teams have mandatory in and out of season lifting sessions, and many/most of the students are really buying in to the potential benefits that consistent proper lifting can provide them. After ten years of following my own program, I switched over to what he was having the kids do, and loved the results. I totally agree that along with having the physical facilities, it is imperative to have proper coaching in the weight room.
February 9th, 2010 at 10:27 AM ^
This seems like as good of place to ask as any, as long as we're on the weightlifting topic.
Totally out of shape, skinny white guy w/ muscle weakness due to a genetic nerve condition plus a surgically severed sense of balance, but still 25 and still a man: How do I go to the gym and start lifting on just the bar with no weights (a 30 lbs bar for curls is probably where I should start, really), without feeling like a little girl?
February 9th, 2010 at 10:39 AM ^
You'd be better off doing 200 pushups (sets of 25) a day to gain a bit of strength in your peripheral muscles before lifting weights...couple weeks at least.
February 9th, 2010 at 10:46 AM ^
Honestly there's no shame in how much or little you can lift. If you have a problem with how you would look at a gym while starting out, shop around to find a gym that fits you and one you are comfortable with. It would probably make you feel dejected by going to a meat market-like gym were everyone benches 200+ and whatnot. For instance I joined a gym where due to its location and cost (ie cheap), it brings in people from all walks of life. Its not uncommon to see an older person in a wheelchair doing what lifts they can, along side a person that is benching 200+. With a mixed clientele of backgrounds and body shapes, I feel very comfortable there working out and lifting what I can, rather than simply feeling the need to max out on every lift. Wouldnt you know it, in a year after starting and sticking with it, you will definately get stronger. The key is to pick a place you are comfortable with and stick to it. Start a work out regime that has you at the gym 4-5 days a week, working a different body area each time. Four lifts or so on that body area, coupled with 15-20 min of cardio, you should start to feel much better with your image in a few months.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:17 PM ^
started lifting at 18 as a skinny, white freshman. I remember that the first lesson was that there was "No pride in the weight room." It seems like an oxy moron but it keeps you from overloading the weights to impress someone and hurting yourself in the process.
February 9th, 2010 at 10:51 AM ^
OK, no one else has responded with advice, so I will. research your options. You are far more likely to stick to a program if you are comfortable with the environment you work out in.
In your case, a place that is more family fitness oriented, versus a "muscle gym", may surround you with a more varied set of fellow patrons, so you'll feel more like you fit in. This versus the "muscle gym" where most patrons are big number benching monsters.
February 9th, 2010 at 11:42 AM ^
Hey, that's nothing to be embarassed about. Those huge guys you're worried about working out in front of? They had to start somewhere too.
Really, everyone's been there. No one cares how much you lift. We're just impressed when you show up to work.
February 9th, 2010 at 12:25 PM ^
Don't worry about looking weak in front of others - when I started lifting, I could barely do the bar without struggling, now I'm up to 200lbs. Focus more on good technique using whatever weight you feel comfortable with, even if it is just the bar. Talk to a trainer or a friend who lifts consistently for some pointers on form, or just watch guys and girls who don't seem to be killing themselves each lift for some good examples of lifting.
I would also suggest thinking about free weights instead of the bar. That way, you can practice your form at whatever weight feels best for you. If you really struggle with even the bar, this is a better option than adopting bad lifting habits early on.
Finally, focus on a full-body lifting program. Don't just focus on the bench or how much weight you can move. Do push-ups, curls, squats, leg presses, pull-downs, etc. If you strengthen your whole body, you'll make natural gains at almost all of the exercises.
February 9th, 2010 at 9:31 AM ^
I live in North Carolina. When I was a junior in high school, a friend of mine on the basketball team came up to me the day after playing Kinston High School on the road. He said, "You've got to come to our game in a couple of weeks when we play Kinston at home. They've got this kid who could play in the ACC right now. And he's 14."
So I go to the game and got my first look at Jerry Stackhouse. And he was right. He was already about 6-5 and looked like a beast. He had that same "older" look that Greg Oden had...like they could buy beer at any bar in the country without anyone ever thinking of carding them. Stackhouse was probably 230 at the time.
He never lifted weights until he got to Oak Hill Academy as a senior.
Several years later, I was talking to a fellow reporter. We were talking about college football recruits in the area. He told me about a rising junior at Southern Nash High School who would probably be one of the top recruits in the country. He was a 6-5, 240 pound running back....named Julius Peppers. He had never touched weights either until he got to UNC.
Those kids are freaks...but they certainly exist.
February 9th, 2010 at 9:38 AM ^
I think we all know certain guys growing up that were just naturally monsters amd these are generally the guys that have the genetic make up to go far in athletics if they choose, but I'm always curious how that went. Herschel Walker is one of my favorites. He said he never lifted weights just push ups and the like. So here's Vince Dooley back in 1980 at Georgia "ok Herschel this is the big time now son I want you to start lifting with your team so you can get stronger". So Hercshel just ripped off his shirt and did 30 pull ups and said "naw coach I'm good just give me the rock" and walked out??
February 9th, 2010 at 10:14 AM ^
I recall a Sports Illustrated story about Herschel per pushups/situps during commercial breaks. I'd committed it to memory as perhaps urban legend but, thanks to Al Gore and the internets, here's the archived article: http://bit.ly/bekxeF
[edit] excerpt from article: As to just how rara an avis he is, consider that Norm Van Brocklin once said that Walker could join any NFL team, that day, and be a starter. Walker was 17 years old. Consider also that at a height of between 6' and 6'1" and a weight of approximately 222 pounds, he has had a vertical jump, without a run, of 40½". (One way to determine the output of physical power: multiply the subject's weight in kilograms by 2.21, and then multiply that product by the square root of the subject's vertical jump measured in meters. Walker's leap of 40½" [1.03 meters] at his body weight of 222 pounds [101 kilos] produced one of the highest power outputs ever recorded—226.5.)
February 9th, 2010 at 10:46 AM ^
He claimed he never lifted even while in college. Instead he supposedly did 3,000 pushups and situps a day.
February 9th, 2010 at 9:54 AM ^
I coached varsity basketball in Maryland for 4 years and it wasn't that we didn't have a lifting program....but more of trying to convince the kids it is necessary. I know basketball is way different than football and we weren't necessarily trying to add a lot of bulk but we couldn't get our best players to be serious in the weight-room. They were much more interested in playing grab-ass and fake rapping to everything. We tried everything we could think of including taking away playing time but in the end the kids just didn't want to lift. I wonder if this could be part of the problem. As mentioned above some kids are just naturals and don't think they need to work to get better.
February 9th, 2010 at 9:57 AM ^
I think you have probably hit it on the head with respect to weightlifting in High School. It is dictated by the economics of the high school and the community. In most of the schools where there is a pay-to-play program in place, the last thing they need is to have to buy weight-lifting equipment.
Aside from that, there is the liability issues, improper supervision, technique, etc will only lead to injuries. No school district wants that. Most places if they have anything use progressive resistance machines and no free weights, since it's harder to hurt yourself, but those too, improperly used will cause injuries.
February 9th, 2010 at 10:09 AM ^
Pahokee doesn't have a weight room. The kids have to lift at the local YMCA/Community Center place thing-a-ma-jiggy. They talked about it in a special article in the daily last semester when they wrote on Hawthorne, Odoms, and Smith.
February 9th, 2010 at 10:21 AM ^
I lived in G.R., MI and we lifted weights all the time... The weight room was open at 7 am before school and they had it open for kids to show up 5 days a week, in the mornings during the summer. The City league even had a Team Power Lifting meet every spring where you competed in weight classes doing, bench, squat and deadlift's.... I am floored that kids in HS football in today's advanced training technique age, do not lift weights...
February 9th, 2010 at 10:42 AM ^
I seriously can not belive that someone who is 17-18 years old and planning on playing D1 football doesnt lift weights.
February 9th, 2010 at 11:03 AM ^
pat summerall
February 9th, 2010 at 11:06 AM ^
It's crazy that some kids arent lifting weights, but again, its all about the school district. My high school luckily had 3 trainers on staff (4,000 students) and a good weight facility. In terms of trying to get kids to understand the importance, you have to talk about the goals of weightlifting. For lacrosse senior year, we were on a 3-day-a-week program preseason to gain muscle mass and strength, then in season 2 days a week to maintain strength, lifted more reps, less weight that kind of thing.
I feel like most areas even if they cant afford full time trainers/weights could probably set something up even if its a training program of the sit-up/push-up variety that would help the kids out a lot. That said... I can't wait to see what Barwis does to the kids who are this talented already without real training
February 9th, 2010 at 11:14 AM ^
...I can tell you that it is essential that your program have a good lifting program. However, it is against the rules to tie membership on a team to participation in off-season workouts. It is allowable to limit or eliminate playing time because of said participation levels, but once you get into the season, you're going to play your best players regardless of how many weights they lifted in the off-season. If you have a player who's clearly better (especially a D-1 recruit) and you sit him/her based on principle, you run the risk of that player transferring to another school. If you want to establish your program as a top program, you don't want to run off the blue-chippers unless there's a serious discipline issue, or you have a stable full of other blue-chippers who will do things the way you want them to.
Most teenagers' minds are only focused on the here and now. Sure, they can dream about the future, but they often don't have the ability (due to brain function development) to see how today's choices can impact the future. In other words, if a teenager is dominating the competition today, he/she feels he doesn't need to lift weights. He/she feels that he/she will always dominate his/her peers. He/she doesn't realize that his/her peers are working hard in order to get better. Only when he/she arrives on the next level does he/she realize the impact of previous decisions. Now, not all teenagers are like this (to be sure), but some are, and I can totally see how some blue-chippers have never lifted weights because they didn't need to.
February 9th, 2010 at 1:09 PM ^
He has apparently set up football camps in nursery schools across California looking at engaging recruits at a younger age.