Wow, a eulogy. I thought we would wait until the announcement is made (if it is made), to do this.
This is maaaaybe premature there, ESPN. Maryland #1 FWIW.
Wow, a eulogy. I thought we would wait until the announcement is made (if it is made), to do this.
Not meant to be a eulogy, just my take on RR and this whole shitty mess thats going on.
Didn't come off as a eulogy to me. Said pretty much what I've been feeling all day.
It may just be the case that RR isn't meant to succeed at Michigan. I hope that isn't true, that he stays, and we do well.
That being said, despite my fears for the future under someone else, I know I'll always be behind the team and whomever is the coach.
swirling and rich rods name now coming up at clemson. HMMM dabo could get the boot. i know one thing that is certain. if coach rod decided to leave before the decision is made I wouldnt be surprised. The treatment has been less than welcoming. and for those of us who support the team and the coach we could all agree. I want wants best for michigan, the players and coach rod. No matter what he is a michigan man, no matter what the brandon decision is.
I live near Clemson and they revere Rich Rod's memory as their best-ever OC. They would welcome Rich with wild enthusiasm -- no "he's not a Clemson Man" issues here. He would be a massive upgrade and do well for the Tigers.
real men of genius???
This week will be full of them.
Perhaps all of these coach posts should go on all of your livejournals.
Long live the King
Even though we just got blown out in a bowl game....and don't call me Shirley.
And it brings up a position that many here may be in: wanting to keep RR but believing in supporting whoever the coach is.
I really want RR to stay, but the worst thing people can do, after applying the "24 hour rule" to venting, is fail to support the new coach. I will be really pissed if a change does happen, and if it turns out that DB was lying to us the whole time, I will want him fired, but I won't whine about it after the first 24 hours or so, and I will support whoever the coach is.
Just because a person didn't get his or her way doesn't mean he or she should piss, moan, whine, or not support whoever the coach is for next season. This entire process has polarized a lot of the Michigan fanbase. I hope that whatever DB's decision ends up being, the fanbase pulls together and supports whoever is the head football coach at the University of Michigan.
Anything less would qualify as "Spartan-esque."
That's exactly where I'm at. I'd prefer that RR stay, with a complete overhaul on D obviously, but if someone else is brought in, so be it.
I am a supporter of the current coach at Michigan unless he's a criminal or something like that.
I'm with you. I've been beaten into submission by this emotional season. That said, I will be much more critical of the next coach if Rodriguez is fired after this season. The next person had damn well better produce or I am personally going to run Brandon out of Ann Arbor. No pressure, Mr. Brandon . . .
Slippery slope here. My biggest fear is becoming Notre Dame where coaches are consistently changed. For what it is worth, my biggest beef with hiring Harbaugh is that you are renting him. First 10 win season is the last stepping stone to the NFL. Then you are starting all over again.
Yes, we now know that Les is douche but you know he would have been the coach until he retired or was fired. I will not believe that Harbaugh retires from Michigan until I see it.
This is stupid. He doesn't need a stepping stone to the NFL -- he can go to the NFL right now. If he comes to Michigan, he is choosing Michigan OVER the NFL.
Seriously, I've seen a number of people make this same argument, and it is so stupid it makes my head hurt.
Maybe, maybe not; but remember he is young enough to give us 10 great years and still be the hottest name on the market for the NFL if that floats his boat. If he comes now it isn't because he had no other options. He comes because this would be his preferred option. That means something. Perhaps it means that the pull of this job and what he can accomplish here is impossible to resist.
If he wins here, we all benefit. We shouldn't be scared of being an ass kicking team with a wanted coach. We should embrace it. People forget that Bo was rumored to be going other places many times in the early 80s. On a couple ocassions it was no sure thing he'd stay. His heart was ultimately with Michigan. Why would anyone think Jim's wouldn't be too? This isn't the slums. It is one of the greatest jobs in all of sports.
Plus he can establish a line of succession much like Bo did to Moeller and ultimately Lloyd Carr.
And how is this different than 3 years ago? Every point you make applied to Rodriguez at that time (whether or not you supported the hiring).
P.S. Who the f- is afraid of being an "ass kicking team with a wanted coach?" You lost me there.
How about every person that posts, "OMGZ! We can't hire Jim Harbaugh! He might leave for the NFLs!!!1!"
Notre Dame has had five coaches in the past 10 seasons. Michigan has had two coaches in the past 16 seasons (and four coaches in the past 40+ seasons). The two aren't really comparable. Just because a coach is (or will be) gone after three seasons doesn't make it a trend.
As for Harbaugh, what makes people think that he'd jump to the NFL after coming to Michigan? If he wants to go to the NFL, he could probably do it now. If he comes to Michigan, it will be because he wants to be there. I see no reason why Harbaugh couldn't be the Michigan coach for an extended period of time.
If some of the people on MGoBlog were Alabama fans in 2007, they'd have been calling for four more years of Mike Shula and his 26-23 record -- after all, you can't fire and hire another coach and run the risk turning into Notre Dame. Seven coaches in 12 years? Nobody can survive that!
Well, we all know how that turned out. Hire the right guy and it doesn't matter. Just because ND sucks at hiring coaches doesn't mean that Michigan/Dave Brandon/everyone else does.
It only makes sense for Harbaugh to come here if it's his dream job. He has a good offer for the NFL right now, and that's his goal there is no reason not to do it now. He comes to UM if his dream is to carry on the legacy of Bo. To me, that's pretty awesome. But the man has to ask himself what he really wants.
My guess is that JH and DB know already. If the answer is no, then we've got a week or so of sheer agony ahead of us, with the real prospect of disaster ahead. That's why college football is so exciting.
I agree completely. However If a change is made, please God please, don't let it be Brady Hoke.
Stop using logic.
RichRod has improved the team to the point that, based on talent level and past performance, we can expect at least 8-9 wins in each of the next two seasons. If Harbaugh (or whoever the next coach is) can't match that, then RichRod should not be fired.
This should not be an emotional decision. You don't fire a coach to placate your fans and make them feel better about the three rebuilding seasons the program just went through. What's past is past - it's a sunk cost. The only thing that matters is what will make the team better in future, both short term and long term.
As far as I can tell, Michigan has NEVER fired a head coach. Ever. If Brandon drops the axe on a 7-6 coach with a young team that has shown improvement, expectations will be sky high. And rightly so. There is no need to go through another 2-3 rebuilding seasons.
Nicely said. I agree whoever is the coach, we will win again. It's too bad more Michigan fans didn't feel this way when RR was hired.
Please stop blaming this on the fans who consistently fill up the largest football stadium in the country week after week even inspite of 3-9, 5-7, etc.
aside from the whole proRR/antiRR rhetoric, i think DB deserves to be considered using a different metric (as an AD versus that used for a HC).
if you (as i do) believe that RR has to have the chance to get his coaches and his guys in place, then i think the same can be said for DB. RR is not his guy, and if he chooses his own coach, i would never think of calling for DB's resignation until his coach gets his assistants and his guys in place.
as for this "was he lying / how much did he know / you cant be serious DB you're waiting until when to evaluate the program" commentary, this is the type of thing we may need to wait on to get the whole story before passing judgement. for example, my boss may have already decided to kill me on my performance eval despite the fact that my review date isnt for months. im sure she will consider all the data at that time, and there's a possibility i may change her mind, but not likely. she's not lying when she says she'll consider all the facts when the day arrives.
more and more im of the belief that RR is out and he and DB have already discussed the situation behind closed doors. RR certainly has carried himself this way for quite some time. the formal evaluation indeed shall take place at the end of the season, but im sure steps are being taken now to insure that whatever decision comes to pass in the formal review is a successful one.
As long as you don't take the record or NCAA sanctions into account.
Since you took "NCAA sanctions" into account.
I sincerely doubt anyone on this board would argue that RR is a quality guy who sincerely cares about his players. I think most of us would like to have him as a neighbor cause he seems like somebody who'd be a blast to have a beer with watching a game or while grilling up some steaks on a hot summer afternoon.
But as the head football coach for Michigan? Sorry, after today I've offically left the ranch.
A twelver with him. I like him alot. A really great football coach for us he is not. Don't worry, don't itch, I'm not one to bitch, but it's time for him to start fundraising with us and stop losing football games. Or go away. His call.
How did he not stand a chance here. Not to be a dick, but he ran off mallet because of his arrogance. Hopefully if harbaugh is the coach, he will use the talent that is already on the team rather than causing transfers. It's great what he did for the mealer family, but if we are talking about off the field, what about the violations. To me, that was the most embarrassing part of these past three years. I hope we never have that again.
ran off Mallett? Are you on dope?
Poor choice of words on my part. While he didn't run off mallett, he didn't do everything he could to keep him and was more focused on getting pryor. I hope if we have a new coach, that their first call would be to denard. You have to do everything you can to keep talent whether it fits your system or not.
Mallett has EXPLICITLY said RR did everything he could but it wasn't meant to be
"While he didn't run off mallett, he didn't do everything he could to keep him ..."
You're sure that he didn't run off Mallet, *and* you're sure that he didn't do everything he could to keep him.
How the @#$% do you know? Were you in the office (under the desk, maybe) when they met?
High brown blow job joke?
Not to be a dick, but he ran off mallet because of his arrogance.
So maybe you're not a dick, but you're definitely dead wrong.
Furthermore, if you're going to write such a high and mighty post, you might want to at least spell Mallett correctly.
If the sanctions were the most embarrassing part for you, then I really don't care what you think.
Leave Josh out of this one!
Is that now we have young talent. I don't think our turnaround will take nearly as long.
RR might turn out to be our Ron Zook at UF. Brought in talent but couldn't win. And then the next coach is able to put it together within a couple years.
Richrod gets seven-figures on his way out the door. How many employees, having failed to succeed, and have been sanctioned by their professional association, get that? In the state of Michigan? Richrod should be grateful.
get a chance, you're right. some people just weren't going to accept him.
but then, he never won either. could've consolidated the fans pretty easily with just one or two big wins.
Harbaugh didn't either at Stanford. He went 4-8, 5-7, 8-5 and 11-1 this year, which is year 4. I didn't create this to start a pissing match. Its just the way I feel about it, and surely others do too. Sure RR made mistakes. The sanctions are totally overblown, and the record isn't that great, but its getting better.
If DB thinks Harbaugh is the guy, then thats what he's going to do. He just be damn sure thats its going to work out in the end and he's not going to leave. And then we all should be questioning DB's decision making.
Just stop with the stupid bullshit "Harbaugh's first three seasons at Stanford were just like Rodriguez's first seasons at Michigan!" argument.
Rodriguez has not defeated a team that finished the season ranked in three years at Michigan. Harbaugh's teams did that all three years, including defeating then #2 USC in his first year (with a team that went 1-11 the year before).
In his third year, Harbaugh's team finished ranked #19 in the nation. Do you really think this year's Michigan team is the equivalent of that team? Do you think we're moving at the same pace, and are on target to be a top 4 team and finish 12-1 next year?
Just agree to disagree. Don't be an a-hole. His opinion is no different than yours - both are simply personal viewpoints.
No, the constant equating of Stanford's first three seasons under Harbaugh with Michigan's first three seasons under Rodriguez is not an "opinion" -- it is an objectively false comparison, for the reasons set forth above.
Are you, of all people, going to take the position that we can't call out stupid arguments on this board now? I thought that was your reason for being?
Things suck bad enough. My only point is to try to be civil. It can get out of hand, especially now that everyone is pissed.
Yes you can't compare year 3 Stanford versus year 3 Michigan. Stanford had better, more experienced players because of the previous coaching regime. RR was left with horrible young depth when Carr left. RR did more with less than Harbaugh. Your belief that Harbaugh did a better coaching job is wrong. It is objectively wrong. So yes you have a point that you can't compare the two situations.
You are utterly delusional if you think Harbaugh's remnants from a 1-11 Stanford team were better than the players that Rodriguez had when he took over. It is a complete lie.
How many of Harbaugh's inherited Stanford players are in the NFL right now? One?
Even setting that aside, Rodriguez did not do "more" with less than Harbaugh, because he didn't do "more" -- his Michigan teams did not perform as well as Harbaugh's Stanford team.
If you're going to say I'm "objectively" wrong, you should try to back it up with objective facts.
now, I don't have to type all of that!
Dammit, what makes people think that Denard wouldn't stick around if Harbaugh came here? Is he afraid of being coached by someone who played QB in the NFL? If anything, I think Denard would use the opportunity to develop into more of a Vick style QB, using his legs when the pocket breaks down or the secondary has all the receivers covered. I really don't think Denard is married to the zone read offense. I mean, Andrew Luck of all people had 400+ yards rushing this year in Harbaugh's offense.
Its not the style Denard is use to running. There's always a possiblity he'd stay, but I just think he'll go. Not many coaches recruited him for QB, which is what he wanted to play, but RR did. And with all the crap that RR and this team has been through, I could see him saying peace i'm out. Maybe go play in the lesser divisions and transfer to a spread, maybe even where RR lands if he ends up being out. I don't think he'll be the only one either.
I would not assume that the offense Harbaugh runs now will be the same one he'll run here, if hired. He ran much more of a spread at USD, when he had Josh Johnson. Harbaugh just might be that rare coach who can adapt his offense to his personnel.
Boy, you sure are all-in for Harbaugh! I'll laugh at you if Harbaugh is not the next coach.
Well, that's mature of you.
If we don't get him, we don't get him - I will be ecstatic if it happens, but I know he's in extremely high demard.
I appreciate you actually responding. Let me ask a question: How do you get past the DUI conviction (Moeller was immediately fired for this same offense) and his degrading comments about Michigan and it's recruiting/academic standards? I honestly want to know because I will have a hard time reconciling these things if he is hired.
It better not be Hoke. I try and make a few games a year and if Brady Hoke is in there I doubt I make it to any.
Exactly. We know nothing about Brady Hoke. There are many more questions about Hoke then there would be about Harbaugh. Thats not what needs to happen right now.
Um, guys, in 2011 Brady Hoke *is* beneath the University of Michigan football program.
We know plenty about him. His ceiling at the moment (in terms of job opportunities) should be no higher than Indiana U. I've no @#$%ing idea why so many people are considering him a legit candidate (again, in 2011) for the UMich job.
I've no @#$%ing idea why so many people are considering him a legit candidate (again, in 2011) for the UMich job.
Who "are considering" Brady Hoke for the job? Have you been talking to Dave Brandon? Is he considering Hoke?
Ok we know nothing bout him?!!! He played for us n coached for us(DL). Have any of you looked at his record at ball st?!?!? Only one good year!!! ONE!! He has no recruiting in Midwest or really anywhere....cause who wants to be at ball st or sdsu?!?!? Fuck hoke!!!
I would like to see RR stay and the season for him to be judged on would be 2012. But, I don't think this will happen. I like the spread offense but I guess I don't mind the pro set as long as we win a lot more games. 2011 will not be a great season no matter who is coaching. The defense needs another year just to become an average b10 defense. I think in 2012 the defense will be good as long as they have some good coaching. I guess RR failing was not being a complete head coach. Once he couldn't get Casteel here in '08, he should have told the AD that he needed some bucks to lure a top notch DC and let this coach run the defense. RR did a great job improving the offense from '08 to '10 but the defense detioriated every year. I know some of it is to be blamed on the lack of defensive depth when RR took over but as a complete HC he should have realized this and gotten on the ball hiring the best DC possible. I wish RR all the best at his next HC job, may be he has learned some lessons from his stay here.
I would have agreed with you yesterday about wanting Rich Rod to get another year. But today sucked my faith right away. The team was not prepared and the coaching added nothing during the game. It is not just a problem with defense and special teams (2/3 of the team, mind you), but it is a system-wide failure to prevail. Sure MSU was probably better than we thought. But we got embarrassed like a second-rate high school team. I hate to say it, but it was a disgrace for a team composed of fine and dedicated young men, and that just can't be tolerated any more. I have pulled for Rich Rod all along and I still like him. But the man who coached UM today is utterly defeated. May God bless him at his next stop. He will benefit from this and be a better coach in the future because of this experience. Remember Bellichek with the Browns. This was Rich Rod's turn and his future has to be somewhere else.
this season has been a sad commentary on RR believers slowly falling by the wayside.
it seems like so many times after every loss we read about another supporter that has simply become bankrupt in his or her confidence in RR.
sc wolv, i think you put it eloquently by suggesting that perhaps things have run their course, and like all michigan men, we wish RR well on his next step in his career
This is exactly how I feel right now.
True. If it's Harbaugh, some current players will (and should) go elsewhere. That sucks for them, and they'll be missed. But it doesn't necessarily suck for the program. Harbaugh won't need 15 slot-ninjas. RR stocked the cupboard with players who are "size-specific" even by spread standards. Harbaugh will probably want to reload as much as possible. So let him.
All true, but Harbaugh would not be inheriting that weak a roster. This is not the 1-11 Stanford team that he took. He also would have the benefit of next year's easier schedule. Overall, there is good talent on the UM team. It's just young. Next year it will be alot less young and experienced. This is a pretty good setup for JH. Let's hope he takes it.
when he reintroduces Wolverine helmet awards and we have blue hair down-in0fronters whining and belly-aching about "OMG TRADITION!", "The Team!", rabble....rabble...."but Lloyd Carr never"..rabble rabble and "but Bo Schembechler didn't...oh yeah! drrrr".
That should be a lot of fun.
For about 2 days.
Helmet stickers might be kind of cool. As long as the players are on board with it and we don't go all Buckeye-style with it.
You were never really given a chance the minute you step foot on campus.
Oh please. He didn't win - that was his first, second, third, fourth and fifth problem. That a tiny percentage of alumni didn't like his accent or command of the English language was about his 158th problem.
This line of argumentation suggests that the extraordinary and unjustifiable hurdles RR has had to deal with since day 1 has had no impact on winning, and I find that extremely hard to believe. From former players to the mediat, there have been a litany of off field issues, outside of RR's control, that have impacted the program in ways we probably can't even imagine.
We've reached the point when even Mike Patrick and Craig James are able to realize the patently obvious: the reason why RR will not got get a fourth year is a product of the disunity which has been created by few and perpetuated by the many (sheep) from the beginning.
I continue to stand by my argument that RR has been dealt the worst hand in the world and we are still better off in retaining him. But that doesn't matter. I've resigned myself to the fact that Harbaugh will be the coach and I will obviously support him. Heck, he's also an obviously good coach.
But none of that will help me overcome the shame I feel because my University and its constituency failed to show respect and class to an honorable man and a great football coach.
As always, GO BLUE. And if we replace RR with anyone other than Harbaugh, my head will explode.
EDIT for clarification: I am not saying that all or even most alums and/or fans have treated RR in an unclassy fashion. I'm arguing that no Michigan coach has ever had to deal with a fanbase which has been divided from day one for unfathomably ignorant reasons.
This line of argumentation suggests that the extraordinary and unjustifiable hurdles RR has had to deal with since day 1 has had no impact on winning, and I find that extremely hard to believe.
That's because you're a blind supporter of the guy and are searching for a way to rationalize his horrible record. Gene Chizik was treated far, far worse by Auburn fans when he arrived than RR was by Michigan fans. He was booed every week. He received hate mail. He was trashed on every talk radio show before he'd coached a single game. What's Auburn's record right now?
That response in no way addresses what I was saying. You chose to make an analogy which does not even remotely apply in substance to a legitimate argument.
You are suggesting that Michigan's performance the past three seasons cannot be rationalized, which is absurd. EVERYTHING CAN BE RATIONALIZED if you dedicate yourself to at least an attempt at understanding reality. I even helped you out by hinting at the factual basis which suggests RR never had a fair shot, yet you gloss over all of that in order to make an a-factual (yes, I just made up a word) statement to support an argument which you continue to make based on the absence of reason.
This extends beyond football to the history of literally everything. I am advocating a rational and fact-based discussion of Michigan football and that discussion has been rendered impossible because there is an utter refusal by many to engage in a discussion in an academic fashion. Your comparison of Michigan and Auburn is so outisde of the spectrum of reasonableness that I don't even know where to begin, and which also supports my notion that you are clearly not operating within the confines of reality.
I have, time and time again, admitted that RR is not without fault for where we're at. And after this last game I'm increasingly uncertain about our future with him. But what blows my mind is that people continue to argue that RR was afforded EVERY OPPORTUNITY to be successful at Michigan, like ANY COACH SHOULD.
You express yourself very well, but I feel like many people are arguing past each other here. That other coaches have been treated worse than RR does not justify any mistreatment RR has received. At the same time, mistreatment of RR does not justify all poor performances on the field. You are both right in that sense.
Auburn had a much better roster when Chizik took over. The two situations are completely different. You are a blind nonsupporter of RR.
that cetainly will not not reunite the program. Too many factions that are beyond my understanding that are tearing UM to pieces. I think RR said it best ... Are you IN or NOT... if not I say leave because you obviously never attended UM.
Grammer dude... Grammer.
Spelling dude...... Spelling.
He belongs at "school" like Clemson. Seriously. He's the ideal Clemson Man.
The offense is potentially very good. I say potentially because it has not produced what matters most in games vs good teams--points and wins. It has improved from year-to-year, so one can say that offensively at least, RichRod has things moving in the right direction.
However, the defense is God awful and has been so for three years. It has gotton progressively worse each year. There is little reason to believe that it will improve beyond the hope that with maturation comes a higher quality of play. But then one realizes that the defense was awful with players like Brandon Graham, Terrence Taylor, Morgan Trent, and Donovan Warren populating the roster.Upon coming to this realization illusions of future competence are then squashed as a child squashes bugs on a sidewalk on a hot summer's day.
In Year Three we see a program that has a nice collection of offensive talent,a defense the equal of the worst that college football has ever seen, and repeatedly ass whippings at the hands of the best teams in the Big Ten. How, my friends, am I supposed to feel optimistic about such a program?
Claims that glory is just around the corner ring as hollow as the spurious claims of grandeur made by our Irish friends not so long ago. There is little tangible evidence to present that will convince the masses that RichRod is going to win here. No signature wins, no marked improvement on ALL sides of the ball...just the development of a potentially dominant player. That is fine for selling jerseys, but not so good for winning football games.
I agree. Rich Rodriguez is a good man, regardless of the tripe that has been thrown at him since his arrival in Ann Arbor. No person should have to deal with the bulls**t that RR has for the past three years, no matter how much they paid him. It is unconscionable the people that have done things deliberately to undermine him from the start, he never had a fighting chance. Presuming that he will shortly be fired, there is a chance that some of the crap that has gone on behind the scenes will actually come out now. Even if he had had a winning record all the way through, there simply is a good portion of the alumni and fan base that would not have accepted him because he is still perceived as an outsider.
I think the handwriting is on the wall, though. Mary Sue Coleman was scheduled to speak at the pep rally in Jacksonville Friday night and abruptly canceled at the last minute. Ironic, since she was with Bill Martin in Toledo when RR was offered the job. A confluence of events in the past three years has just stacked the odds against him. Another poster this weekend on a different thread said it: maybe he was just not meant to succeed at Michigan.
I feel for him and his family. He has a $2.5 million buyout now, but what about the assistants? Frey is single, so he'll be ok, but the rest of them have kids, mortgages, etc. They don't have guaranteed buyouts. If DB's decision is what I expect it to be, I hope he does something for the assistants to give them some security, too.
What so many fans disregard is that these are people. I said the same thing during the last couple of Carr's years: I wish the haters had to undergo as much public scrutiny in their jobs, especially those who spew profanities and treat the coaches and their families as subhuman. Rich and Rita are wonderful people and I wish them nothing but success and happiness in the future. After all they have undergone in the past three years, they deserve it.
Look I respect all the RR supporters but how can you support a coach whos football team has not really improved in 3 years. You still see the same sputtering on big drives, not competing in big games, lack of tackling, etc. its the same old thing every game against relevant teams.
You're a good guy, but it's time to part ways.
Bring on Harbaugh.