I Like Burgers

January 18th, 2017 at 1:39 PM ^

Mentioned this before, but I wonder how much getting burned hard on guys like Devery Hamilton, Isaiah Wilson, and presumably Nico Collins just pissed Harbaugh off to no end.  Nico and Wilson were both Wheatley guys.  I don't think he was the guy for Hamilton, but that was a bad last second flip too.

For Wheatley, to lead for so long on a guy, to then get blindsided is a bad look for any recruiter -- whether its football or any other walk of life.  Like imagine telling your boss you had a multimillion dollar deal key to the future of your company locked up, fed him glowing reports for a year, and then have that client switch to someone who had very little contact with them at the last possible second.  And if you were also an employee that bitched publicly about having to go on a company mandated retreat/training or something...yeah it might be time to look for another job.  Even if you were very succesful with other accounts/recruits.

As for Fisch...who knows.  The passing game was pretty mediocre this year.  Not a lot of creativity or great usage for any of the WR/TEs.  Maybe it was time for a change.

Joined: 10/06/2012

MGoPoints: 30575

I Like Burgers

January 18th, 2017 at 3:27 PM ^

Yeah, I honestly don't buy my own theory either.  More of a playing devil's advocate kinda thing.  Like if someone is going to swoop in and offer "perks" WTF can you do?  And pushing out one of your top recruiters because he got blindsided by bagman antics, doesn't seem like a path to sustained success no matter how peeved you are.

The Wheatley thing just feels more like a mutual breakup.  I could see Ty being tired of the bagman antics himself, tired of Harbaugh's grinding offseason schedule, and just ready for a change.  But outside of my devil's advocate theory, I'm not really sure what Harbaugh's particular breakup beef would be though.

Joined: 10/06/2012

MGoPoints: 30575

alum96

January 18th, 2017 at 3:51 PM ^

"tired of Harbaugh's grinding offseason schedule"

I think this goes under valued by the community here.  Harbaugh is pretty insanse.  Last July while most coaches were taking it relatively easy in an otherwise hectic life the UM coaches were doing really crazy things like being in 39 cities in 30 days incl some going to friggin American Samoa and others to the Land of Oz.  Only so many people are built for that - I bet some of those guys saw their families just a few days that entire month.  And that's their "down time".  Another reason I think you will see a revolving door of coaches here; you get here - get your 2 years in with Harbaugh and get your promotion because you are part of your tree.

As for Wheatley specificaly, the NFL is "easier" than NCAA in my book in terms of off the field stuff for a coordinator.  Plus aside from this board, generally has more prestige.. if you make it there you are seen as the gold standard.  There is a reason Harbaugh himself jumped from Stanford to give it a try along with Saban and Chip Kelly etc.   If Urban had an offensive system that worked in the NFL I think he'd go try it too.  

Also I was trying to think the other day what guy in college or NFL ranks ever made it big after 10 years as a RB coach.  It's just not a position where people think the great minds are located apparently.  So TW has to find a path to OC very soon or he is going to be stuck.  He is road blocked here.

And as we all know Harbaugh can be intense just as a man - he is not for everyone.  Kids stay in the UM program just long enough where he won't wear them out or just wear them out late in their career, but coaches - again you have to really vibe similarly to a guy like this to last around him very long. 

So we won't really know until Bacon tells us about it in 12 years but I can see many coaches coming here just as a pit stop for some of the reasons above, among the typical ones (people want to elevate their careers) at other NCAA stops.

I'll also add for guys hopping between the NFL and NCAA you have to again have a certain sort of personality to take the recruiting long term.  Most grown ass men don't want to spend 10 months a year kissing the ass of a 17 year old.

Joined: 04/28/2012

MGoPoints: 82422

bronxblue

January 18th, 2017 at 3:58 PM ^

I assume most of this is true, but it's also not uncommon for seeing guys jump around positions even without a driving head coach.  Guys just jump around (much like untenured professor-types, as I'm seeing with friends going through that grind) as they try to find a better position.  I mean, Pep Hamilton is 7 years older than me and has coached at 12 different schools/teams/positions in 20 years, and was almost yearly changing jobs once he got to the NFL.  I do think recruiting must be a drag and Harbaugh pushes his guys hard and that could absolutely be a turn-off for guys with kids, but this is part of the deal with college football and I tend to think most guys, especially on their 3rd/4th job in it, know what what it entails.

Joined: 11/22/2008

MGoPoints: 171436

The Fan in Fargo

January 18th, 2017 at 4:12 PM ^

Ever realize that ones complaining about Harbaugh being insane and hard to work for are the lazy ones it seems? See a trend anyone? If he were that bad I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have the success he has had. Jim could make it easier on himself and tell these guys that there are no CRY babies wanted in the interviews though. Then do a stare down to see if they crack.

Joined: 09/04/2016

MGoPoints: 1877

umbig11

January 18th, 2017 at 4:35 PM ^

On Fisch....not forced out at all. He took a promotion with Jim's blessing and encouragement. He will be a HC one day and and a very good one. On Wheatley....he signed a two year deal to help bring back the prestige back to Michigan football. He wants to coach at a higher level and he Doug Marrone are very close. Henson is reaching here.... You could argue that Wheatley likes the NFL better and would prefer that over the recruiting grind.

Joined: 07/21/2010

MGoPoints: 115573

Mongo

January 18th, 2017 at 7:26 PM ^

Wheatley did his duty plus got Ty Jr in a good spot to flourish as a TE as well as his youngest son off to college. I can see the attraction of being an NFL position coach with no recruiting responsibility for better pay than the $350k he was making on the UM staff. Plus, the Marrone connection means instant credibility and maybe more potential OC type duties as he builds his new staff.

Joined: 06/25/2016

MGoPoints: 9585

TrueBlue2003

January 18th, 2017 at 3:09 PM ^

if Drevno's opinion won out and the offense underperformed (certainly did from the Iowa game onward, even accounting for competition, although not sure how much much Speight injury had to do with it), it would seem like he'd have been more responsible/accountable?  It makes more sense that Fisch would want to leave after being over-ruled in the passing game by the running game coordinator, as is also mentioned as the reason for the departure.  So Harbaugh effectively demoted him (to not good effect it would seem in retrospect) and he left for a better gig.  

It seems like everyone won in the end here, so good for Harbaugh and Fisch.

Joined: 01/05/2010

MGoPoints: 38075

I Like Burgers

January 18th, 2017 at 3:29 PM ^

Isn't that an indictment of Fisch though?  Like if Harbaugh was annoyed enough to strip Fisch of playcalling duties and hand them to Drevno, that's not a good look for Fisch.  Not really a ringing endorsement for Drevno either considering some of the play calling beef people (myself included) had.

Joined: 10/06/2012

MGoPoints: 30575

StephenRKass

January 18th, 2017 at 4:09 PM ^

I won't blame Drevno for the OL. It has been substandard for a long time. Part of this is coaching, but only part. A lot of this is the players on hand. Without a solid OL, the running game struggles, and it makes the passing game harder. In one sense, you could argue that the failure of the OL to protect Speight led to the injury against Iowa, that loss, and indirectly, to the loss vs. OSU. Whatever happened to Speight, it clearly limited his ability to stretch the field. 

Joined: 07/15/2008

MGoPoints: 23004

Mr Miggle

January 18th, 2017 at 2:06 PM ^

in blaming Wheatley for losing Collins well before it's even happened and Wilson when the staff is supposedly up in arms at Georgia's methods and hasn't given up on him yet. The idea of getting rid of one of your best recruiters because he lost out on a recruit or two you wanted seems pretty ridiculous. Further, why would you push out Wheatley now with no one to replace him on the recruiting trail? It could hurt us with other recruits. The idea makes no sense on several levels.

Drevno recruited Devery Hamilton. 

My take is that Wheatley wanted to move up and Harbaugh wasn't making room for him to do so. Spinning that as Harbaugh engineering his departure is also a stretch. Just with Greg Jackson last year, he's making the best possible hires even if that doesn't align with the aspirations of some on his staff.

As for Fisch, I kind of believe it. I think Harbaugh was already planning to bring Hamilton on board. A little like Saban with Nussmeier and Kiffin, but he was less obvious about it. The way it worked out was the best for all concerned. 

Joined: 10/07/2010

MGoPoints: 47586

I Like Burgers

January 18th, 2017 at 3:38 PM ^

Just playing devil's advocate.  Personally, I think it would be way too petty of a move to push him out for something like that.  But if Harbaugh really did want him out, that's the only plausible reason I can come up with.  Everything else Wheatley has done has been excellent.

But I do think Nico is long gone.  This feels like a Laquon Treadwell recruitment to me.  Lots of visits early, lots of talk about Michigan early, Michigan is the presumed favorite early, yet no committment which makes you wonder if he's holding out for...."more."

And we all know Georiga seems to be offering "more" these days.

Joined: 10/06/2012

MGoPoints: 30575

Pepto Bismol

January 18th, 2017 at 3:48 PM ^

It has 5 upvotes.  Somebody understands this.

I've read it about 10 times and have no idea what that post is trying to convey.

Joined: 02/03/2015

MGoPoints: 7857

Marvin

January 19th, 2017 at 1:14 AM ^

He is talking about twerking. His running changes included twerking, which Harbaugh thoght was counterproductive. So he changed the machine (the boom box machine) to play only smooth jazzk which is impossible to twerk to (or so I'm told). That's my read.

Joined: 08/17/2010

MGoPoints: 4214

Wolfman

January 19th, 2017 at 3:28 AM ^

and their is little doubt, in my opinion, that is no doubt it was a mutual understanding. Harbaugh was fully aware that in order to realize his aspirations as a coach, he had to move on from UM because he is not qualified, at this time, to be an OC, a step he'll need to obtain to his ultimate goal. He has a relationship with his ex and now current boss again. For all we know this might include a promise of promotion, dependent on a few occurences that together, they could make happen. 

He was perfect for his role here because the RB coach is unlike any other position coach. It requires far less technical knowledge and the primary quality is being a damn good recruiter, something he has obviously proven. I hope he does realize every goal he has. He's a damn good man, a very good coach and a tremendous father and role model. We were fortunate that he agreed to coach here and if things unfurl in a certain fashion, I can see the circumstances that might lead him back to AA. Good luck Coach and thank you. 

Joined: 07/23/2008

MGoPoints: 8259

Soulfire21

January 18th, 2017 at 1:16 PM ^

Successful coaches will develop successful assistants that will move on. It is a byproduct of greatness.

That said, as the offense sputtered from Iowa on I did wonder if there was some hard feelings between Harbaugh and some offensive assistants.

Joined: 03/18/2010

MGoPoints: 22716

alum96

January 18th, 2017 at 4:00 PM ^

JH needs to take responsibility too.  It's his system in the end on offense - defense its the DC running the show.

If it was play calling he knows all the plays - he is a guy who developed many of the plays himself I am sure.  He can give a different package to Drevno or Fisch to call after it wasn't working at Iowa.  These 7 plays....remove them, people have figured them out and/or we suck at them - they didnt work vs Wisconsin or Iowa, they wont work down the road.

I think it had to do a lot more with not having a running game and solely counting on a QB vs solid defenses late - Iowa, OSU, FSU.  There was a very putrid running attack, especially in the first 2 games.. .so it was all on Speight.  Who is allowed to have bad games - JT sucked at OSU vs MSU, UM, and obv Clemson but OSU won the first 2 while UM lost all 3 they had similar QB struggles (and I dont think OSU was a game of struggles on QB - you put a Wadley of Iowa on this team vs OSU and we win, same with FSU and possibly Iowa too).

Bottom line - JH is the architect of the offense and as Wayne Fontes would say (as he cut coaches in the offseason to save his job) the buck stops there.  If the offense is stagnant he can go in there and shake things up in the week leading up to the next game.

Joined: 04/28/2012

MGoPoints: 82422

The Fan in Fargo

January 18th, 2017 at 4:18 PM ^

I wonder if that maybe isn't somewhat of his plan. Him being the main play caller and let the new Assistant Head Coach handle the rest while he's doing just that with Drevs?

Joined: 09/04/2016

MGoPoints: 1877

HateSparty

January 18th, 2017 at 4:20 PM ^

This thinking assumes he saw an issue with it.  Many people here over the last month have also mentioned what we saw all bowl season, etc. The offensive line was avaerage.  Average lines can be hidden by dynamic runners.  Michigan had a workman runner.  The line was average.  Coach might have felt he got the most they could out of it and all this spewing is a waste of time (time i thoroughly enjoy).  

 

I wish both coaches infinite success. Go Blue!

Joined: 12/17/2014

MGoPoints: 27141

schreibee

January 18th, 2017 at 5:54 PM ^

Here's where I think the team should go in '17 - Drevno should focus more on OL coaching and less on play calling. How playcalling then gets delegated I'm not sure. I'd personally like JH to call the game, but don't want him over extended. Pep might be the answer then?

The O gameplan deteriorated as the '16 season progressed, and the use of Peppers was a waste. We can and must do better!

Joined: 11/02/2009

MGoPoints: 21129

FrankMurphy

January 18th, 2017 at 1:44 PM ^

I don't like the guy, but his reporting on the coaching search was spot on. He was the first one to report that DJ Durkin would be Harbaugh's defensive coordinator back when all of the NFL sportswriters were still saying that Harbaugh-to-Michigan was a pipe dream. 

Having said that, the fact that he's a grade-A douchebag is probably the main reason why his career hasn't gone much further than Pittsburgh radio talkjock despite having such good sources. 

Joined: 08/19/2008

MGoPoints: 31940

chrisu

January 18th, 2017 at 3:46 PM ^

but take it all with a grain of salt. I really don't care for him on Twitter. Bad look to chirp back and forth with people. Just block them and move on. Making your point as a dick is not greater than making your point...which is lesser than blocking and just moving on. 

Joined: 12/27/2014

MGoPoints: 3240

charblue.

January 18th, 2017 at 2:18 PM ^

personal dislike. He was an arrogant radio host, I get that. But he was also pretty informed and his Michigan sourcing has always been pretty spot on, or as well as it can be. And quite frankly I've seen lots of media guys who offer less credible information in their line of work than he regularly offers when he does post about Michigan-related stuff.

In any case, this story makes more sense than simply guys moving on based on the coaching opportunities they took. It wasn't like their pay scale was dramatically altered by the jobs they took, so what would be the motivation to leave for parallel positions? I mean Baxter left after one year, too. And Michigan didn't exactly suffer because of that change.

I hope for the best for Ty and Jedd regardless of why they left and I hope that Hamilton makes the passing game even more productive for Michigan next year, especially since Hamilton was born and raised where I now live.

Joined: 05/25/2010

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