look down 9 posts.
landing spot. will be interesting to see how he does.
look down 9 posts.
That said nothing about anything being announced.
That said they were looking to join.
If true, this is outstanding and also a bit scary.
I smoked pot with Johnny Hopkins.
I played a really wicked game of quarters with a guy named Johnny Hopkins 20 years ago when I did my overnight visit to JHU.
We are gonna get worked in lacrosse for the next few years. But this will make Michigan an even more appealing destination for east coast lacrosse players because they can play premiere schools 3 or 4 times a year now.
Yeah we'll get worked for a few years (we'll compete with Rutgers for not-last) but after that we'll be able to compete. M has been recruiting well, and although it will be a while before we're favored over teams like Maryland and Hopkins, we'll pick up some big wins starting in 3ish years I bet.
Wasn't this already posted?
Is it to express their displeasure with the move? I was the guy who put up the last one, and there weren't any hard details, so I am grateful for this hard info.
and Sloan Kettering. And they were blazing that shit up every day.
You don't know anyone named Johnny Hopkins...
any relation to Anthony Hopkins?
As an alumnus of Hopkins, I am very excited about this. Our alumni base is very mixed on this issue, however. The long tradition of independence is not parted with so easily by many. (yes, there are those who recently have been referring to Hopkins as the Notre Dame of lax - for a lack of return to championship weekend for too long.)
I think this is a great move for both sides. Hopkins needed to join a small league so that it could maintain its traditional rivalries (of course, the longest is with Maryland - remember the Michigan OSU hundreth game? Hopkins and Maryland did the same thing a few years before) While the B1G is not the strongest league, it does have enough quality programs to provide good Strength of Schedule through the conference tournament.
SOS is even more important than the AQ. Lax uses a godawful tournament selection process (no KRACH in lax) relying heavily on SOS. So since Hopkins's opponents had not great years this year, a 9-5 Hopkins team did not make the tournament (unheard of as little as 2 years ago - Hopkins with a winning record would have been a lock)
With two AQs with losing records making the tournament this year, it is clear that a team needs every chance it can get to make the tournament.
I have to say that the biggest thing I am excited about is my Jays coming to town every two years!
Hopkins won a national title in lax in 07 as well as one a few years before that...definitely not ND. And I don't remember a B1G lacrosse conference ever being announces, is this official?
It is not just the lack of a title since 07 - it is the lack of a final four appearance in four years.
This would seem to make the b1g lax conference ready to go in 2015. There would have been a lot of pressure from the lax playing schools to make this happen. Perhaps a b1g - acc lax challenge in the future?
Sounds familiar. It's gotta be true
I love lamp. Dude really.
Do you really love lamp or are you just saying it because you saw it?
Thank God this is happening since another member of the ECAC has jumped off the ship. Denver, who made the Final 4 this year.
Not a fan of partial members for the Big 10. If its in name only, there's no revenue sharing, and they join the CIC, then I'm okay with it, but I still think partial memberships are a bad road to head down. It dilutes the Big 10's identity while adding another voice to a crowded field of decision makers.
With everything you said.
What decisions in the Big 10 are separate right now? Sure, the decisions about bowl lineups can be separated, but most of the decisions span multiple sports and affect everyone to some extent. The BTN is a joint venture that will host lacrosse, so should Hopkins have a say there? What about the logo or additional members or voting to kick Maryland and Rutgers out for being awful? Should they have a say in that decision? It certainly would affect them.
The larger point is the Big 10 is a single entity and I don't think it can easily be parsed into lacrosse only or football only. The only way it works is if Hopkins shows up to lacrosse games when and where the conference tells them to, subject to minimal restrictions.
I hate the idea of partial B1G members, too reminiscient of the Big East ... or whatever that has become.
Edit: Lol that this was marked 'Offtopic' when I'm clearly talking about Johns Hopkins joining the Big Ten.
I hate the idea of a team only being in the conference for one sport. You are either in the conference or you or not. This is a terrible precedent.
hopefully Michigan will start fielding decent teams in the near future - we lose quite a few close games last year so hopefully going .500 isn't too far off.
I guess we need more money. Good add from a strictly lacrosse point of view, troubling as to the identity of the conference.
IMO the conference began losing its identity when there were talks back in 2006 or so of Texas joining the Big 10. When adding Maryland and Rutgers, the Big 10 has completely sacrificed its identity. I guess the new Big 10 identity is $$.
this is probably the only time this would be a good move. They are joining for "all" sports they field, are strong academically, and actually are in the same geography as the schools which will be in the footprint, and of course bring research and set us up well if (when) Virginia and UNC join the conference.
UNC joins the conference. It would be the basketball equivalent of us being in a different conference then ohio. And I don't see us adding UNC and Duke. Plus, given how much the NC schools run the ACC, I doubt they would want to go to a conference dominated by "northern" schools.
If the SEC gets frisky, UNC and Virginia may become free agents pretty quickly. I can't really see either school ending up in the SEC, but I can see FSU getting pulled in with some other school outside the conference's footprint as a play for strength and TV sets at the same time. That could set off a wave of new expansion. If the endgame is 4 conferences, then the ACC and Big 12 are going to be the last one in. I'd bet on the Big 12 right now, which may leave UNC and Virginia on the outside searching for a home. If that happened, the rivalry with Duke and the other historic relationships would become unimportant pretty quickly.
Why wouldn't Duke come to the B1G with NC, as well?
I don't really think Duke is an attractive addition next to Virginia. Duke adds great basketball, but that's really it. Besides, with how basketball works today, the next coach may have real problems doing what Coach K has done there.
On the other hand, Virginia presumably adds the TV sets for one of the most populous states to the BTN and has just as strong an academic reputation. Along with UNC, it's one of two schools I think are worth inviting to the Big 10. Everyone else is too far (UCLA, Cal), too toolish (Texas), or too SEC. Besides, all of those conferences are far too strong to raid even if the Big 10 wanted to do so.
I can assure you that UVA will add no significant amount of viewers.
That wasn't an issue with Rutgers or Maryland.
Seriously though, if the goal is a more powerful "brand" and a bigger payout per school from the BTN, then the conference won't add two schools from the same state and osw schools will all be state flagship public schools unless Stanford feels a need to leave the PAC 12. Duke adds great basketball today, but that's really it relative to Virginia. It adds no significant fan base and has, in my view, identical academic prestige to Virginia.
and feel you raise some good points, but as far as viewership goes, doesn't Maryland already attract the DC market? Isn't the DC market the big draw in Virginia? Yes, Virgina is a great academic school, but what do they bring to the table sportswise?
I can see your argument against Duke (and that makes sense), but I don't see one FOR Virgina, assuming the DC market is already ours.
Outside of DC, I wonder if VA has enough viewers to earn their share of the TV money. I would be interested in those numbers if I could find them.
Most of Virginia's population is in the DC suburbs, which is technically already covered by UMD in terms of getting BTN on TVs. UVA adds much less than Duke in terms of TVs. I hate the Rutgers and UMD add, but it makes since from a pure BTN standpoint. UVA makes no sense from any standpoint.
I like the idea of adding the Duke/NC rivalry to the B1G, but understand the point of those two schools already sharing the same market. I wonder how much Duke would be worth to the conference, assuming they already pull in NC.
I would agree with you regarding VA. Great school, but where's the value? If I had to choose between them and Rutgers or Maryland, I would take them in a second, but at least Maryland brought a market. I still wonder about Rutgers.
Frankly, I don't know if the DC cable providers have agreed to put BTN on their basic tier or not. If they and the Northern Virginia providers have, then the UVA argument gets much weaker. Maybe it's the snob in me, but UVA has cachet that Maryland and Rutgers will never have, regardless of how many TV sets they bring in.
For what it's worth, I don't want any other schools in the Big 10. I would like 10 schools and a nine game league schedule. We can dump Penn State and its scandal-ridden carcass to the wolves for all I care. Nebraska is a great addition, but I don't have any passion for them and would rather play Iowa every year.
"For what it's worth, I don't want any other schools in the Big 10. I would like 10 schools and a nine game league schedule. We can dump Penn State and its scandal-ridden carcass to the wolves for all I care."
But am very happy with Nebraska. I feel like there is already a rivalry budding with them and the rest of the conference, including us. I would LOVE to keep the original 10 (no, not Chicago), but trade out Purdue for Nebraska. If we did that and went to a nine game schedule, well, that would be close to perfection.
I see nothing to indicate this is anything more than JHU joining a big ten lacrosse conference. It will be a big ten affiliate member, nothing indicates the relationship expands beyond that. No matter what, it's a bad precedent.
Johns Hopkins will join the B1G in every Division I sport it plays, just like every other member of the B1G. It just happens that Johns Hopkins only plays one single sport - lacrosse - at the Division I level.
For the B1G, I think this is a no-brainer decision. In 2015, the B1G will have five lacrosse members (Maryland, Michigan, OSU, Penn State, and Rutgers) - but needs six to get an automatic qualifier berth in the NCAA Tournament. Increasingly, AQ is the primary - and only practical - means of getting into that Tournament. Hopkins itself saw its 41-year consecutive of NCAA tournament apperances snapped when AQ teams with worse records crowded independent Hopkins out. In order to give B1G lacrosse players ready access to the NCAA lacrosse tournament via the B1G, a sixth team is needed.
Pushing up a sixth B1G team before they were ready isn't a good idea for many reasons. The B1G won't (and shouldn't) add institutions unless that institution is willing to commit all of its Division I teams to the B1G - but again, this is a requirement Hopkins is able to fullfill. And if you're going to add a sixth lacrosse team, you might as well add one of the most storied, most historically successful teams in college lacrosse history.
I would imagine Hopkins' governing and involvement would be completely limited to lacrosse. As to revenue sharing and other financial impacts - lacrosse isn't even a rounding error, compared to football or basketball. The numbers and sums are so small, pretty much nobody is going to notice except the lacrosse players themselves, who will benefit tremendously from AQ access and superior competition.
Basically, adding Hopkins is good for Michgan lacrosse players, won't bother anyone else at Michigan, and so overall, it seems to me a win.
It's a big If, but if the conference is willing to add a partial member, what about Johns Hopkins hockey?
The biggest issue for expansion so far has been rural areas like Iowa, Illinois, Indiana and Nebraska not having a rink that can be used for D1 hockey. Now that we add a school in a bigger city, if they can find a rink that will take them they won't need $88 million dollars to start a program. Kind of like DePaul having D-1 basketball that plays at Allstate.
Hopkins has a D3 club hockey team that appears to have 10 kids on it, not sure where you got the hockey idea from. Adding a different hockey only school is possible, but it won't be Hopkins.
The rules that govern a school's membership in a particular division don't allow for splitting your sports into more than one division unless you have a historical sport that is worth D-I membership. Like Hopkins lacrosse. Otherwise it's all or nothing.
Well, to be the best you gotta beat the best.
Now that it seems there is a six team B1G Lacrosse conference on the horizon, does this add any impetus for other B1G schools to add lacrosse? Now that the conference has a bigger presence, lacrosse wise, on the East Coast, is there more reason for Illinois or Minnesota or hopefully Sparty, to add Lacrosse as a D1 sport?
The reason why I could see MSU adding lacrosse, is because they had a program before. The Spartans had varsity lacrosse but lost their program in 1997 in compliance with Title XI.
It could start to gain ground in EL, and we all know how Mark Hollis feels when Michigan does something nice.
Conventional wisdom suggests MSU (once had a D1 program) and NW (has a dominant women's program, is in Chicago) would be the next ones to jump on board. However, I've heard rumblings that Minnesota is the most likely Big Ten team to add it next. Minnesota is a very all-sports focused athletic department, and high school lacrosse is pretty big in the state of Minnesota. There are four schools in Minnesota with MCLA1 club teams (including U of Minnesota) and a couple of them are actually very good, so there's talent there.
but I heard talk way back about Cornell joining up. It would never happen, but their football team at least is not BCS, so that's not an issue, so maybe this opens up them joining in hockey and lacrosse, or something, as well. I imagine that even if they sponsored soccer or something, the B1G conference as it stands could accomodate them fairly easily if it so chose, so they would technically be a member for "all" sports as well.
The Ivy League sponsors lacrosse. Soccer, too. In whose bizarre acid-laced fantasy world does the Ivy League let Cornell just mosey on over to another conference, or Cornell even want to leave?
Yeah that seems like a ridiculous idea. Cornell already has rivalries with the Ivey schools, and is much closer to them geographically. And competes on an even playing field with them. Outside of a few sports, Cornell would get absolutely crushed in the Big Ten.
We can remove the ? in the title.