Hello: Johns Hopkins?

Submitted by dayooper63 on

Inside Lacrosse is reporting that Johns Hopkins will joining the Big Ten for Men's and Women's Lacrosse.  The Women's team will start in 2014 and the Men's will start in 2015.  Details aren't known, but look for an announcement tomorrow (Monday).

 

Full Story Here

Jaqen H'ghar

June 2nd, 2013 at 5:35 PM ^

We are gonna get worked in lacrosse for the next few years. But this will make Michigan an even more appealing destination for east coast lacrosse players because they can play premiere schools 3 or 4 times a year now.

WolvinLA2

June 2nd, 2013 at 6:47 PM ^

Yeah we'll get worked for a few years (we'll compete with Rutgers for not-last) but after that we'll be able to compete. M has been recruiting well, and although it will be a while before we're favored over teams like Maryland and Hopkins, we'll pick up some big wins starting in 3ish years I bet.

phjhu89

June 2nd, 2013 at 5:56 PM ^

As an alumnus of Hopkins, I am very excited about this.  Our alumni base is very mixed on this issue, however.  The long tradition of independence is not parted with so easily by many. (yes, there are those who recently have been referring to Hopkins as the Notre Dame of lax - for a lack of return to championship weekend for too long.)

I think this is a great move for both sides.  Hopkins needed to join a small league so that it could maintain its traditional rivalries (of course, the longest is with Maryland - remember the Michigan OSU hundreth game?  Hopkins and Maryland did the same thing a few years before)  While the B1G is not the strongest league, it does have enough quality programs to provide good Strength of Schedule through the conference tournament. 

SOS is even more important than the AQ.  Lax uses a godawful tournament selection process (no KRACH in lax) relying heavily on SOS.  So since Hopkins's opponents had not great years this year, a 9-5 Hopkins team did not make the tournament (unheard of as little as 2 years ago - Hopkins with a winning record would have been a lock)  

With two AQs with losing records making the tournament this year, it is clear that a team needs every chance it can get to make the tournament.  

I have to say that the biggest thing I am excited about is my Jays coming to town every two years!

phjhu89

June 2nd, 2013 at 6:24 PM ^

It is not just the lack of a title since 07 - it is the lack of a final four appearance in four years.



This would seem to make the b1g lax conference ready to go in 2015. There would have been a lot of pressure from the lax playing schools to make this happen. Perhaps a b1g - acc lax challenge in the future?

DISCUSS Man

June 2nd, 2013 at 6:29 PM ^

Thank God this is happening since another member of the ECAC has jumped off the ship. Denver, who made the Final 4 this year.

 

Zone Left

June 2nd, 2013 at 6:30 PM ^

Not a fan of partial members for the Big 10. If its in name only, there's no revenue sharing, and they join the CIC, then I'm okay with it, but I still think partial memberships are a bad road to head down. It dilutes the Big 10's identity while adding another voice to a crowded field of decision makers.

Zone Left

June 2nd, 2013 at 7:59 PM ^

What decisions in the Big 10 are separate right now? Sure, the decisions about bowl lineups can be separated, but most of the decisions span multiple sports and affect everyone to some extent. The BTN is a joint venture that will host lacrosse, so should Hopkins have a say there? What about the logo or additional members or voting to kick Maryland and Rutgers out for being awful? Should they have a say in that decision? It certainly would affect them.

The larger point is the Big 10 is a single entity and I don't think it can easily be parsed into lacrosse only or football only. The only way it works is if Hopkins shows up to lacrosse games when and where the conference tells them to, subject to minimal restrictions.

Soulfire21

June 2nd, 2013 at 8:18 PM ^

I hate the idea of partial B1G members, too reminiscient of the Big East ... or whatever that has become.

Edit:  Lol that this was marked 'Offtopic' when I'm clearly talking about Johns Hopkins joining the Big Ten.

vablue

June 2nd, 2013 at 6:50 PM ^

I hate the idea of a team only being in the conference for one sport.  You are either in the conference or you or not.  This is a terrible precedent.

bouje13

June 2nd, 2013 at 7:19 PM ^

as a one sport member than Rutgers as an all sports member.  John Hopkins is the king of lacrosse and hopefully brings research dollars to the CIC.  I'm completely fine with this move.  

woomba

June 2nd, 2013 at 6:50 PM ^

hopefully Michigan will start fielding decent teams in the near future - we lose quite a few close games last year so hopefully going .500 isn't too far off.

maizeonblueaction

June 2nd, 2013 at 7:24 PM ^

this is probably the only time this would be a good move. They are joining for "all" sports they field, are strong academically, and actually are in the same geography as the schools which will be in the footprint, and of course bring research and set us up well if (when) Virginia and UNC join the conference.

vablue

June 2nd, 2013 at 8:03 PM ^

UNC joins the conference. It would be the basketball equivalent of us being in a different conference then ohio. And I don't see us adding UNC and Duke. Plus, given how much the NC schools run the ACC, I doubt they would want to go to a conference dominated by "northern" schools.

Zone Left

June 2nd, 2013 at 8:13 PM ^

If the SEC gets frisky, UNC and Virginia may become free agents pretty quickly. I can't really see either school ending up in the SEC, but I can see FSU getting pulled in with some other school outside the conference's footprint as a play for strength and TV sets at the same time. That could set off a wave of new expansion. If the endgame is 4 conferences, then the ACC and Big 12 are going to be the last one in. I'd bet on the Big 12 right now, which may leave UNC and Virginia on the outside searching for a home. If that happened, the rivalry with Duke and the other historic relationships would become unimportant pretty quickly.

Zone Left

June 2nd, 2013 at 9:07 PM ^

I don't really think Duke is an attractive addition next to Virginia. Duke adds great basketball, but that's really it. Besides, with how basketball works today, the next coach may have real problems doing what Coach K has done there.

On the other hand, Virginia presumably adds the TV sets for one of the most populous states to the BTN and has just as strong an academic reputation. Along with UNC, it's one of two schools I think are worth inviting to the Big 10. Everyone else is too far (UCLA, Cal), too toolish (Texas), or too SEC. Besides, all of those conferences are far too strong to raid even if the Big 10 wanted to do so.

Zone Left

June 2nd, 2013 at 9:31 PM ^

That wasn't an issue with Rutgers or Maryland.

Seriously though, if the goal is a more powerful "brand" and a bigger payout per school from the BTN, then the conference won't add two schools from the same state and osw schools will all be state flagship public schools unless Stanford feels a need to leave the PAC 12. Duke adds great basketball today, but that's really it relative to Virginia. It adds no significant fan base and has, in my view, identical academic prestige to Virginia.

Rage

June 2nd, 2013 at 10:05 PM ^

and feel you raise some good points, but as far as viewership goes, doesn't Maryland already attract the DC market?  Isn't the DC market the big draw in Virginia?  Yes, Virgina is a great academic school, but what do they bring to the table sportswise?  

I can see your argument against Duke (and that makes sense), but I don't see one FOR Virgina, assuming the DC market is already ours.  

Outside of DC, I wonder if VA has enough viewers to earn their share of the TV money.  I would be interested in those numbers if I could find them. 

vablue

June 2nd, 2013 at 10:17 PM ^

Most of Virginia's population is in the DC suburbs, which is technically already covered by UMD in terms of getting BTN on TVs. UVA adds much less than Duke in terms of TVs. I hate the Rutgers and UMD add, but it makes since from a pure BTN standpoint. UVA makes no sense from any standpoint.

Rage

June 2nd, 2013 at 10:34 PM ^

I like the idea of adding the Duke/NC rivalry to the B1G, but understand the point of those two schools already sharing the same market.  I wonder how much Duke would be worth to the conference, assuming they already pull in NC.  

I would agree with you regarding VA.  Great school, but where's the value?  If I had to choose between them and Rutgers or Maryland, I would take them in a second, but at least Maryland brought a market.  I still wonder about Rutgers.  

 

Zone Left

June 2nd, 2013 at 11:34 PM ^

Frankly, I don't know if the DC cable providers have agreed to put BTN on their basic tier or not. If they and the Northern Virginia providers have, then the UVA argument gets much weaker. Maybe it's the snob in me, but UVA has cachet that Maryland and Rutgers will never have, regardless of how many TV sets they bring in.

For what it's worth, I don't want any other schools in the Big 10. I would like 10 schools and a nine game league schedule. We can dump Penn State and its scandal-ridden carcass to the wolves for all I care. Nebraska is a great addition, but I don't have any passion for them and would rather play Iowa every year.

Rage

June 3rd, 2013 at 7:43 AM ^

"For what it's worth, I don't want any other schools in the Big 10. I would like 10 schools and a nine game league schedule. We can dump Penn State and its scandal-ridden carcass to the wolves for all I care."

But am very happy with Nebraska.  I feel like there is already a rivalry budding with them and the rest of the conference, including us.  I would LOVE to keep the original 10 (no, not Chicago), but trade out Purdue for Nebraska.  If we did that and went to a nine game schedule, well, that would be close to perfection.  

vablue

June 2nd, 2013 at 7:50 PM ^

I see nothing to indicate this is anything more than JHU joining a big ten lacrosse conference. It will be a big ten affiliate member, nothing indicates the relationship expands beyond that. No matter what, it's a bad precedent.

turnberryknkn

June 2nd, 2013 at 8:53 PM ^

Johns Hopkins will join the B1G in every Division I sport it plays, just like every other member of the B1G.  It just happens that Johns Hopkins only plays one single sport - lacrosse - at the Division I level.

For the B1G, I think this is a no-brainer decision. In 2015, the B1G will have five lacrosse members (Maryland, Michigan, OSU, Penn State, and Rutgers) - but needs six to get an automatic qualifier berth in the NCAA Tournament. Increasingly, AQ is the primary - and only practical - means of getting into that Tournament. Hopkins itself saw its 41-year consecutive of NCAA tournament apperances snapped when AQ teams with worse records crowded independent Hopkins out.  In order to give B1G lacrosse players ready access to the NCAA lacrosse tournament via the B1G, a sixth team is needed.



Pushing up a sixth B1G team before they were ready isn't a good idea for many reasons. The B1G won't (and shouldn't) add institutions unless that institution is willing to commit all of its Division I teams to the B1G - but again, this is a requirement Hopkins is able to fullfill. And if you're going to add a sixth lacrosse team, you might as well add one of the most storied, most historically successful teams in college lacrosse history.

I would imagine Hopkins' governing and involvement would be completely limited to lacrosse.  As to revenue sharing and other financial impacts - lacrosse isn't even a rounding error, compared to football or basketball.  The numbers and sums are so small, pretty much nobody is going to notice except the lacrosse players themselves, who will benefit tremendously from AQ access and superior competition.



Basically, adding Hopkins is good for Michgan lacrosse players, won't bother anyone else at Michigan, and so overall, it seems to me a win.

Sac Fly

June 2nd, 2013 at 9:22 PM ^

It's a big If, but if the conference is willing to add a partial member, what about Johns Hopkins hockey?

The biggest issue for expansion so far has been rural areas like Iowa, Illinois, Indiana and Nebraska not having a rink that can be used for D1 hockey. Now that we add a school in a bigger city, if they can find a rink that will take them they won't need $88 million dollars to start a program. Kind of like DePaul having D-1 basketball that plays at Allstate.

MaizeAndBlueWahoo

June 2nd, 2013 at 11:50 PM ^

The rules that govern a school's membership in a particular division don't allow for splitting your sports into more than one division unless you have a historical sport that is worth D-I membership.  Like Hopkins lacrosse.  Otherwise it's all or nothing.

michlaxref

June 2nd, 2013 at 10:29 PM ^

Now that it seems there is a six team B1G Lacrosse conference on the horizon, does this add any impetus for other B1G schools to add lacrosse?  Now that the conference has a bigger presence, lacrosse wise, on the East Coast, is there more reason for Illinois or Minnesota or hopefully Sparty, to add Lacrosse as a D1 sport? 

Sac Fly

June 2nd, 2013 at 10:53 PM ^

The reason why I could see MSU adding lacrosse, is because they had a program before. The Spartans had varsity lacrosse but lost their program in 1997 in compliance with Title XI.

It could start to gain ground in EL, and we all know how Mark Hollis feels when Michigan does something nice.