Michigan lands their first commit in the 2015 recruiting class from......kicker Andrew David.
All over twitter now and TomVH just posted a paywalled article about a 2015 kicker commit.
with Danny Clark. He is a class of 2017 QB and is already being touted as possibly the best QB ever to come out of Ohio (mainly because of how good he is now and his expected growth).
There is a strong possibility you may be onto something. Wouldn't hurt to have our coaches and his teammate in his ear for 3 years...
This is insane speculation, however, I believe Andrew David also plays QB. So they would be in the same "position group" for the next two years. If they were going to offer him anyway, might as well offer him a year early to get an extra year in that kid's ear. Kind of crazy though considering the other guy just finished 8th grade.
That kid looks huge out there. Solid qb prospect too.
2017. First time I have ever said this, but I am getting old.
So he just finished eighth grade
I'm surprised the coaches offered a scholarship to a kicker in this class since it's going to be a very small class. Interesting. Regardless, welcome to the family, Andrew!
Is for 2015 and Wile will graduate year before. Scholarship kicker is/was a must for that class.
That's a good point. I had forgotten that we needed a kicker in this class. Hopefully J. J. McGrath (2013 walk on) provides some competition as well.
Don't forget Kenny Allen (2012 walk on) who red shirted last season.
Brendan Gibbons is a senior this year (2014), and Matt Wile & Will Hagerup are seniors next year (2015). We haven't taken a scholarship K/P since 2011.
Not sure why we needed to offer this early, but trust the coaches...
Geez, Rich Rod was really good at picking those kickers, huh? I guess they don't count as offensive players?
Gotta trust Hoke and Co. Until they screw up, I can't question their allocation of scholarships.
Argh! But a great pickup, nonetheless. It seems like our kicking game is very solid going forward.
Ranked as the 6th best kicker by Chris Sailer: http://www.chrissailerkicking.com/player-profiles/2015.html
Top kicker in the midwest.
Not sure what makes him #6 compared to the other 5 above him. The top 13 guys have a rating of 4.5.
I don't understand his rankings. According to this guy nobody is considered a D-1 prospect. I guess all of them are marginal D-1 players since the guy rated #1 even has a rating of 4.5 stars. Or, perhaps it is too early to tell.
Woo! That's a really freaking early offer for a kicker. Hopefully he's good.
Rabble rabble hope he likes brunettes or some such rabble rabble
I just hope he kicks with passion.
Hmm..can a kicker carry the recruiting flag? This is quite the dilemma, from QB Morris, to LB Ferns to K David?
I'd say he's got a good shot.
One doesn't sit right with me, however...a guy with two first names. Not sure...
I guess you could say the 2015 class has started off on the...
Caruso, you kill me
he isn't a lefty. That joke would NEVER have worked...
Good deal, welcome to the party!
Jon Runyan, Jr.
This kicker has a 40 minute Hudl. In case anyone was looking for something to not watch. They also have his name as David Andrew. :(
Most importantly, welcome and Go Blue!
We already knew that there were a few players that could commit any day.
Has CoachBrown established himself as having real info, that tweet not included, or is he still just some guy?
Well he is one of the guys behind "The M Block", although their FB page reads more like MLive than anything....
I don't think this website understands their own ranking system. They rate him as kind of a D1 prospect, yet have nothing but glowing review comments. I guess we'll find out the truth when we badly need 3 points.
Assuming we end up grayshirting Brady Pallante, this is effectively the second commit for 2015. This class is going to fill up quite quickly since there is strong interest from many players (Runyan Jr, Crawford, Weber, Harris, Campbell, Cole, etc) and the class size is going to be very small (13+attrition last I heard).
Alabi? J. Campbell? Have we even Jayru Campbell yet?
For Jayru. Josh Rosen is the first 2015 qb offer. I suspect Hoke goes after the loaded California qb class first. Then of we strike out, I actually think Malzone from Brother Rice is above Campbell on the 2015 board
Gotta have him in this class.
This site has some quotes from his coach regarding the Michigan offer (LINK).
"Typically, kickers don’t get offered until before their senior season. This is before Andrew’s junior season. He’s one of the best kickers in his class in the country, if not the best in the country. I know he’s a huge Michigan fan. This is a dream come true for him." - Jason Hall, Massillon coach
The way that Hoke's staff seems to work is to identify top talent early, and then as a result, they get these top caliber verbal commits early on in the process. In this case, quite some time before they will even come to Ann Arbor. It is great to see that it is coming at a position that will be one of need by the time David arrives - you want a staff that pays meticulous attention to the future roster like that.
Welcome to the Michigan family, Andrew David!
Two first names? Impressive.
Touche' my good man
I know a guy named Tucker Harrison Carter , and he doesn't think it's awesome. He particularly doesn't like Harrison.
I guess we'll find out soon how extensive is Ace's advance "Hello" pool data. Why do I think he probably did NOT see this one coming.........
in his HS team this upcoming season...I get the feeling we'll see him in some weird fake FG situation sooner or later.
How good is Andrew David among kickers? I'm fine with adding Brady Pallante and Runyan but after that we should hold off for elite talent because we only have like 15 spots.
Because you coach division 1 college football?
On Xbox he does, that counts for something right?
I wonder if he is going to make shirts like Ferns.
Or be a recruiting juggernaut like Shane...
Either way should be interesting having a kicker as the ring-leader :)
Does he have luscious locks of hair and appreciate the goodness of brunette girls?
Kickers are so vital to success. I remember during the Rodriguez campaign It would be 4th and 5+ yards on the 15 and HAVING to go for it.
That will never not be too soon. Gibbons had miraculously cleared his freshman season from my brain, now I remember it all again
Laces out, Andrew!
They say kicking ass and taking names.
How about "Kicking Ass and taking first names"
That is the heart of Ohio football right there.
Brady Hoke drinks from your milkshake, Urban.
You snooze, you lose Runyan!
Welcome aboard, Andrew. PK and LS are spoken for in 2015. Now we just have to figure out the holder situation over the next few years. I'm a little concerned...will we nab a top 5 holder?
Who's the LS?
Sorry for the confusion...I was counting Scott Sypniewski as the long-term LS since we probably won't explicitly recruit one for awhile. That being said, I'm sure preferred walk-on status could be bestowed on another LS-type for Andrew's class.
Never trust a man with two first names!
Like Tom Brady?
More like Tshimanga Biakabatuka, IMO.
Sorry, just had to clear my throat for a moment.
Well, good for Andrew David and good for Michigan. Trust in the coaches.
Now here's a question ... imagine a kicker who's really consistent inside X yards, but his production outside X drops off.
At what value of X does a kicker really become a strong asset?
For exmaple, a kicker who's consistent out to 60 would be the #1 recruit and the top NFL draft pick. Worth their weight in gold. But they don't come along very often, if at all.
So at what value of X does a kicker's stock really start to rise? 35 yards? 40 yards? 45 yards?
Are you saying that a kicker who consistently hits from 60 yards and in would be the number one recruit and a first rd NFL draft choice? If so, I have to disagree.
Yeah, I am ... if you have a kicker who can put 3 points on the board every time the team touches or cross the 50, that's worth a bunch.
What I'm not saying is a team can win with only such a kicker. Obviously there needs to be a balanced team around that.
I might have indulged in a bit of hyperbole ... but I do believe such a person would be highly valued.
If there is a guy that can hit from 60 yards with the same consistency as an average kicker does from 35 yards (no such player exists in real world), I would take that kid with the very first pick in a heartbeat. You are talking about HUGE point differential between having him and not having him.
And you would eclipse even Matt Millen as the worst GM ever.
He was one of the rare kickers taken in the first round (wikipedia link). While there was some rule changes after his college career (e.g., no tee on field goal attempts allowed any more), he did have a great career at Texas but never did much in the NFL.
As an aside, I had no idea he did time for securities fraud.
This isn't to say a great kicker isn't valuable, but just that it's not always easy to identify one.
Well guys who can constantly hit 50 yarders and have range out to 60 yards are currently going in the 6th round, Blair Walsh and Greg Zuerlein.
Blair Walsh definitely had a great year with Minnesota. And you're right ... he went 6th round. But he also went "only" 21 for 36 his senior year at Georgia, with 56 his longest. I wonder if his draft stock took a hit because of it?
Look, I take your point. But I think you're looking past mine. The point I'm trying to make is that a good kicker is of value to a team, and a great kicker is worth even more. And by great I meant someone who was banging 60 yarders like PATs. Blair Walsh is not that guy. Very good, but not that guy. Nobody is that guy. But if such a guy existed, I'm saying he'd be highly valued.
He was a 1st rounder and hits within 50 and 60 yards on a pretty regular basis
Knocking the touchbacks through the uprights and think "he'll be in the league forever"?
But a guy who could hit 80 yarders like PATs would be even more valuable, if no more or less likely to exist.
Yes, of course. That was the point of my original question ... to explore at what point the value curve really shoots up. Apparently asking questions and encouraging discussion is flamebait nowadays. Whatever.
But wouldn't the curve have to remain in the realm of current reality?
Of course, which is why I asked the question the way I did -- if X is the yards at which a kicker is strong and consistent, at what value of X does a kicker really become valuable.
Clearly a kicker who's good to only 30 but inconsistent after that would be average at best ... probably less than average at the D-1 level. He wouldn't even be invited to tryouts for the NFL.
The answer is probably in the 45 yard range where D-1 kickers start to be seen as worth a good look and maybe a scholarship. Consistent at 50+ (such as is the hoped-for promise of Mr. David) and the value curve starts to spike in college, but probably is the low-end in the pros. Really consistent (90%+) all the way to 60 is extremely rare, which is why I said they'd be highly valued. I made the mistake of using too much hyperbole. That proved too much for some.
Taken to the absurd extreme, someone who was 100% from 110 yards would be paid a lot of money. A guaranteed minimum 3 points per possession would probably mean Super Bowl title for any team with even a half-way decent offense and defense.
Andrew David appears to be that kind of guy who's strong in the 50+ range. Which is probably why the rating folks were high on him, and why Michigan offered him.
That kind of discussion was really all I was seeking with my question.
Well, no one wanted to answer your question regarding X so I will share. I think in college it would be around 45 yards. Get inside the 30 and feel very confident you will be getting at least three points. Once in the pros you would have to be all day from 50 and in. I don't have the data, but isn't that how Jason Hanson was so good for so long?
I asked the original question simply to stir some discussion around kickers' value. I had no desire to stir up any dissent. So I very much appreciate your response.
Jason Hanson's career stats:
So it looks like he was darn close to automatic out to 39, but less so further out. Some years were better than others. For example, 2008 was a great year for him ... he hit 8-for-8 from 50+.
There's a fair amount of articles on the web about kicker value and draft levels. There's also some articles about fantasy league drafting, and it appears kickers are an often overlooked value item in that space.
From what I can gather there's an ocean of decent kickers so NFL teams tend not to spend draft picks on that position. My comment above about high draft pick was supposed to be for the case where someone was clearly superman ... all day, every day from 60 with no hint of inconsistency.
I refuse to answer this question as I have proudly gone 1788 days without Using algebra and I am not starting now
Welcome Andrew. Look forward to seeing you split the uprights in the Big House.
Does anyone know what Fred Jackson's evaluation of Andrew is?
He kicks like a combination of the Karate Kid and Remy Hamilton. If Mike Gilette had icewater in his veins he'd kick like Andrew David. When Shane Morris gets nervous he calls up Andrew David for an encouraging word. Footballs don't get kicked by Andrew David; his foot blesses them with the laces.
Remember.... Think BRUNETTES
I bet everyone gets a kick out of you having two first names, huh?
Welcome to the Maize and Blue Mr. David
wonder if he prefers blondes?
The real question is will a Kicker hurt our 247 Composite rankings for 2015 especially this early in the class!
Obviously UM will drop in the rankings due to our newest commit not being able to consistently hit 85yd field goals.
if he has a committable offer from Urban?
I love Hoke getting quality players, even at very important positions such as kicker. a bad kicking game will cost a team games....painfully. I always wished Carr would have taken the same approach.
welcome to the team.
Oddly stated first sentence. Nevertheless, I want quality players at every position all of the time and I understand what you are saying.
14/15 you say. Does he think of brunettes?
Alabama vs LSU November 2011 comes to mind.
As does the entire damn 1979 season.
To hit 14/15 field goals from 50 yards in front of the coaches is big time.
Team 135 has begun. Any quality player from ohio is fine by me.
You mean 136.
With both Hagerup and Wile Graduated by the time the class of 2015 gets on campus will Michigan offer a scholarship to a punter or do you think they will go with WO Kenny Allen. If they do offer fo you think they will try to snag one early like they did with the kicker, who are some prospects instate and out?