This list is completely arbitrary and not a genuine analysis of the relative merits of state fossils.
Heisman: Klein, Te'o and Manziel Headed to NYC
December 3rd, 2012 at 9:19 PM | 
This is exactly it. This is
This is exactly it. This is
December 3rd, 2012 at 10:46 PM |
There could be another reason
There could be another reason
There could be another reason defensive players don't win it. Since previous winners are voting members, and every previous winner except one plays on offense, there is likely a tendency to vote for the offensive player, more specifically, a QB or RB.
December 3rd, 2012 at 10:57 PM |
There could be another reason defensive players don't win it.
There could be another reason defensive players don't win it.
Defensive players don't win it because the stats they accumulate don't translate directly into points, with infrequent exceptions. By contrast, that's what QBs and RBs are all about, ultimately—points, and the vast majority of points in any game are scored by offensive players. And besides, defense may win championships, but offense sells tickets.
December 4th, 2012 at 10:33 AM |
I agree I don't think a
I agree I don't think a
I agree I don't think a linebacker is that outstanding if he doesn't even have to rush the passer. 1.5 sacks all year. His d line is good enough that he can constantly drop into coverage. Great player though of course.
December 4th, 2012 at 6:42 AM |
Why should he have to do
Why should he have to do
Why should he have to do something on offense to be the most outstanding football player? Why is there such a bias towards the offensive side of the ball. Johnny Manziel hasn't picked off anybody, made a sack, or returned punts. Teo has been outstanding he's played that position better than I can ever remember being it played. He's came up with some absolutely huge sacks and INTs. That team isn't undefeated without him. Also even though Klein is KSU's most important player I don't think you can discount Hubert. Overall my vote would go to Manziel because he has just been amazing, then Teo a close second, and then Lee. Personally if USC didn't suck so bad I would think about putting Lee first.
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
- Vince Lombardi
December 4th, 2012 at 11:34 AM |
Manziel only has 1.5 sacks
Manziel only has 1.5 sacks
Manziel only has 1.5 sacks less than Teo.
I'm being facetious, but only a little. I wouldn't say he has "some absolutely huge sacks" when he only has 1.5. How can you say he plays the position better than anyone you've ever seen when he has the numbers more resemblant of a safety than a linebacker (yes I'm aware that numbers are only a small part of defense.)
I don't think Teo is here if his back story of what he has had to go through this year isn't attached. He got in the conversation from the MSU and Michigan games right after that happened and he had monster performances.
BORK BORK BORK
December 3rd, 2012 at 8:55 PM |
I didn't notice this during the copy/paste...
I didn't notice this during the copy/paste...
but wow, Klein probably should have prepared a statement. That was pretty rough to read.
Go Blue!
December 3rd, 2012 at 8:55 PM |
Meh, not everyone is an
Meh, not everyone is an
Meh, not everyone is an eloquent writer and it was easy enough to read. Props to him for maybe actually writing his own statement versus letting someone else do it for him.
December 3rd, 2012 at 8:57 PM |
Yeah...
Yeah...
I went back and edited it to saying he should have prepared something. I agree the sentiment was great, but if it were me I'd want something more polished to comment on something this big.
Go Blue!
December 3rd, 2012 at 8:57 PM |
?
?
It was fine.
December 3rd, 2012 at 8:54 PM |
What about the Yell Leaders,
What about the Yell Leaders,
What about the Yell Leaders, Johnny?
Omnia mutantur nos et mutamur in illis.
December 3rd, 2012 at 8:57 PM |
No Marquise Lee?Thats not
No Marquise Lee?Thats not
No Marquise Lee?Thats not even right.
"Are you an official here?Because you've officially given me a boner."
December 3rd, 2012 at 9:06 PM |
Marqise...
Marqise...
at least spell the brother's name correctly
December 3rd, 2012 at 9:09 PM |
RACIST!
RACIST!
RACIST!
December 3rd, 2012 at 10:53 PM |
Touché.... but I said brother,
Touché.... but I said brother,
whereas you said the far more racist brotha - RACIST!
December 3rd, 2012 at 9:14 PM |
Marqise and Braxton should
Marqise and Braxton should
Marqise and Braxton should have been invited. They both had phenonmenal years. The three finalists are all deserving, but I feel those other two should have at least been invited, especially Lee.
THOSE WHO STAY WILL BE CHAMPIONS
December 4th, 2012 at 10:23 AM |
Braxton Miller, has a high
Braxton Miller, has a high
Braxton Miller, has a high ceiling, but look at his numbers compared to .. say... T-Magic
| Completion % | Comp | Attempts | Yards | TD | Int | Rushing Atts | Rushing Yards | Rushing TDs | Total Yards | Total TDs | |
| Taylor w/o B1G Champ | 63.3 | 195 | 308 | 2483 | 21 | 8 | 156 | 833 | 8 | 3316 | 29 |
| Braxton Miller | 58.3 | 148 | 254 | 2039 | 15 | 6 | 227 | 1271 | 13 | 3310 | 28 |
Touchdown Michigan!
December 4th, 2012 at 12:18 PM |
The duel threat
The duel threat
Braxton Miller is what is wrong with modern Heisman thinking.
The duel threat QB is going to have a lot of yards and be a much larger percentage of the offense. By default, they will be in the conversation. We have two choices. We either evaluate the duel threat QB differently than a traditional pocket passer, or just give the award to the best duel threat QB every year.
In the end, the Heisman trophy is a popularity contest. That is fine. Rooting interest and award selection is a very subjective game.
December 3rd, 2012 at 9:17 PM |
Marqise.
Marqise.
Marqise.
"Are you an official here?Because you've officially given me a boner."
December 3rd, 2012 at 8:58 PM |
No way Te'o wins it
No way Te'o wins it
No way Te'o wins it, he is just there because ND is undefeated.
Klein blew his shot when he lost to Baylor.
Which means Manziel wins it, he's been unbelievable this year and he beat Bama, I think he deserves it.
December 3rd, 2012 at 9:57 PM |
And Manziel lost to LSU and
And Manziel lost to LSU and
And Manziel lost to LSU and Florida... 2 out 3 of his biggest games he was flat.
December 3rd, 2012 at 9:02 PM |
This feels like Te'o and
This feels like Te'o and
This feels like Te'o and everybody else, but nobody had really been a dominant story this year. Unless you love Johnny football, which is a fun story but doesn't feel dominant enough to be the first freshman.
To this day I still think that honor should have gone to Adrian Peterson.
December 3rd, 2012 at 9:22 PM |
I disagree.
I disagree.
He shouldn't have to be "dominant enough to be the first freshman." The award winner should have to be "dominant enough to have the best season of any other player in the country," freshman or not. In my opinion, he did just that.
December 3rd, 2012 at 9:05 PM |
Go Johnny Football. The kid
Go Johnny Football. The kid
Go Johnny Football. The kid is putting up ridiculous numbers against SEC defenses. He played the game of his life against one of the best defenses in the country. He deserves to break the freshman barrier. Klein plays in a league where defense is borderline nonexistent.
It would make me sick if Te'o won it just because he plays at ND. I want Woodson to retain his distinction as the only defensive player to win it. I know he'll lose that distinction at some point, but I don't want him to lose it to an ND player.
December 3rd, 2012 at 9:59 PM |
Ridiculous against who
Ridiculous against who
Ridiculous against who exactly? He had one good game vs Alabama and was non existent vs Florida and LSU. Loading up statson Sam Houston St is what is ridiculous.
December 3rd, 2012 at 11:00 PM |
Obvious ND troll is obvious.
Obvious ND troll is obvious.
Obvious ND troll is obvious. Don't go away mad, just go away.
Oh...as always, F*ck Notre Dame!
We ARE Michigan....COME GET SOME!!!
December 4th, 2012 at 12:24 AM |
Lets talk after the championship game.
Lets talk after the championship game.
We shall see who shines brighter against Bama.
December 4th, 2012 at 9:15 AM |
12 games aren't enough, since
12 games aren't enough, since
12 games aren't enough, since the trophy is awarded in December. T'eo 12-0, Manziel 10-2. T'eo made game changing plays in all the biggest games, Manziel was flat in 2 of 3 big games.
December 3rd, 2012 at 9:18 PM |
Johnny Manziel
Johnny Manziel
And in my opinion, it isn't close. He had a phenomenal season, and frankly I don't get the lukewarm reaction that many people have about him. If he doesn't win, its because A) he is a freshman, and B) he is a freshman. And that is really dumb.
December 3rd, 2012 at 9:57 PM |
That is the reason Griffin
That is the reason Griffin
That is the reason Griffin won't vote for him. I don't think he wants anyone else with a chance at multiple Heismans.
December 3rd, 2012 at 10:01 PM |
It took me a second to
It took me a second to
It took me a second to realize you were talking about Archie. You realized the last Heisman winner was named Griffin too, right? Kinda confusing.
December 4th, 2012 at 12:25 PM |
He could have won 2 as well
He could have won 2 as well
RG3 was very good and could have been the second Griffin to win two.
December 3rd, 2012 at 9:22 PM |
If Manziel doesn't win, it'll
If Manziel doesn't win, it'll
If Manziel doesn't win, it'll only be because people won't vote him as a freshman. He SHOULD be the clear cut winner.
If you need drugs to be a good writer, you're not a good writer.
-Rod Serling
December 3rd, 2012 at 9:23 PM |
TELL IT TO THE PEOPLE
TELL IT TO THE PEOPLE
TELL IT TO THE PEOPLE
December 3rd, 2012 at 9:39 PM |
Let's compare the candidates
Let's compare the candidates
Manziel:
Klein:
I can't find a handy gif, so here's a youtube video instead:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEkWVMhvGvg
Te'o:
Ok based on the evidence, I've gotta give it to Manziel. Te'o is overrated, if he wasn't on ND he wouldn't be in the conversation, and while Klein is decent, he's not spectacular. Give it to Johnny Football!
Twitter: @MikeCohodes
My Blog - posts on movies, tv, and books; politics; and fatherhood Updates minimum 3x a week
December 3rd, 2012 at 10:02 PM |
Maybe you should post
Maybe you should post
Maybe you should post something from this year. When Teo was in Robinsons face all game.
December 3rd, 2012 at 10:04 PM |
You are easily the most
You are easily the most
You are easily the most annoying ND poster on this board. We got it, you think Te'o should win. We're all shocked.
He's still 1-3 against us though.
December 3rd, 2012 at 11:04 PM |
For God's sake, get the F*ck
For God's sake, get the F*ck
For God's sake, get the F*ck off our board, you Domer troll!
We ARE Michigan....COME GET SOME!!!
December 3rd, 2012 at 11:53 PM |
Maybe when you Domers stop
Maybe when you Domers stop
Maybe when you Domers stop trying to justify Te'o winning with "HE HAS SIMILAR INTERCEPTION STATS AS WOODSON!"
If you need drugs to be a good writer, you're not a good writer.
-Rod Serling
December 4th, 2012 at 12:27 AM |
Funny, I never mentioned
Funny, I never mentioned
Funny, I never mentioned anything about Woodson. In fact in another post where someone else compared the two of them, I said that hands down Woodson was the better player. But Woodson isn't up for the Heisman this year. A QB who got smacked down by Baylor and a QB who had a great game against Alabama are Teo's competition.
December 4th, 2012 at 1:49 AM |
More like a QB who set the SEC record for total yardage
More like a QB who set the SEC record for total yardage
which had previously been held by... Cam Newton. And before that, Tim Tebow. That doesn't seem like an easy feat.
"That's right. It's an off-tackle play. It's coming right over you. And there's not a thing you can do about it."
December 4th, 2012 at 9:17 AM |
No it doesn't.
Until you
No it doesn't.
Until you
No it doesn't.
Until you actually analyze the statistics. T'eo did it against a better body of work. There are no Sam Houston St.s, Lousiana Techs or SMUs, not to mention the dregs of the SEC.
December 4th, 2012 at 10:31 AM |
But there were:
Navy, a
But there were:
Navy, a
But there were:
Navy, a horrible BC team, a bad WF team, and triple OT against a 6-6 pitt team.
I respect the schedule, but i think it's bigger in name, but most of these programs were a shell of their former selves.
Touchdown Michigan!
December 4th, 2012 at 11:08 AM |
not to mention
not to mention
only beating 6-6 Purdue by 3 points, and playing 6-6 MSU as well.
Really the only quality wins on ND's schedule were Stanford and Oklahoma. USC was having a down year, and we shot ourselves in the foot with turnovers. A true championship caliber team would've killed us in a game with 6 TOs, instead of only beaten us by 7 points. Can you imagine if we turned the ball over 6 times vs Bama? We would've lost by an additional 42 points.
Twitter: @MikeCohodes
My Blog - posts on movies, tv, and books; politics; and fatherhood Updates minimum 3x a week
December 4th, 2012 at 10:13 AM |
i dont get it
i dont get it
Teo isn't even the most outstanding defensive player Michigan is going to face
Follow me on Twitter @gfraley05
December 3rd, 2012 at 10:00 PM |
T'eo has had an amazing year,
T'eo has had an amazing year,
T'eo has had an amazing year, but I find it hard to give him the Heisman. I'd find it hard to give any defensive player the Heisman. Woodson made such a strong case because he was a playmaker in every phase of the game. I think T'eo is just as much of a defensive playmaker as Woodson was, but he lacks the versatility that Woodson had. He doesn't have the ball in his hands enough. That's not his fault, but that's just the way it is.
Manziel has had so many Heisman moments this year. He beat Alabama. In Tuscaloosa. Where Alabama never loses. He broke Cam Newton's records. As a freshman. He's the fifth player in NCAA history to pass for 3,000 yards and run for 1,000.
Notre Dame would not be undefeated without T'eo, but it would still be having a solid year. A&M would be nowhere without Manziel. No freshman has ever won the award. That ends this week.
It's been a lot. Its been a roller coaster that for some reason seemed like it would never get good. But you know what? We kept fighting. It's like that old saying goes, "Those Who Stay Will Be Champions." -David Molk
December 4th, 2012 at 10:03 AM |
The Heisman people should be honest and re-write their criteria
The Heisman people should be honest and re-write their criteria
like so:
"The Heisman Memorial Trophy annually recognizes the outstanding college football player on offense whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity."
How can you purport to recognize the single most outstanding player when routinely, every year, half of all players are excluded from serious consideration purely because they play on defense? Let's not kid ourselves—Woodson won the award because Lloyd Carr had the wisdom to let Charles play on offense. If he'd been limited to defense and kick returns, Charles wouldn't have gotten any closer to the trophy than Deion Sanders did, and Peyton would have it in his own trophy case.
The Heisman Trophy as it currently stands is an anachronism, an outdated relic from the era when all players played both ways, and for that reason I think Woodson is the only truly legit winner since two-way play disappeared, going by the Heisman Committee's own language. Of course I think that Desmond was the legit winner in '91 since he was by far the most outstanding offensive player, but only by the unspoken rule that has been in force since two-way players went the way of the dinosaurs.
December 3rd, 2012 at 10:22 PM |
Last year Luke Kuechly had as
Last year Luke Kuechly had as
Last year Luke Kuechly had as many solo tackles as Te'o does total tackles this year, and Kuechly was nowhere near the Heisman discussion. Te'o will have earned AA status, and a 1st round draft pick with a big contract, maybe even the Butkus Award (though Jarvis Jones 22.5 TFL and 12.5 sacks with only 5 fewer solo tackles against tougher competition would argue,) but he hasn't earned the Heisman this year. When A&M left the Big12 for the SEC West everybody pointed and laughed. Noone's laughing now. Manziel deserves the Heisman.
How many times have you been on the freeway and had someone fly by you at 100 mph then end up 2 cars ahead of you at the off ramp? What's the point? -Mark Harmon
December 3rd, 2012 at 11:53 PM |
It's called hype.
It's called hype.
All hype, man.
December 3rd, 2012 at 10:27 PM |
Is it just me, or do others
Is it just me, or do others
Is it just me, or do others have a really empty sense of "who cares?" about this year's NC and this year's Heisman? It's the oddest thing ... normally I care more. This year? Not so much.
Midwestern born and raised ... now living in the heat of the Arizona desert
This is exactly it. This is why defensive players don't win it (and a defensive player who only plays defense has never won it). You just don't have that big of an effect on your team as a defensive player unless you're just crazy. Te'o is not crazy, he's just a great linebacker. One of the best college linebackers in a while, for sure.
He has 7 picks (tied for second in the country) for a total of 35 yards, and has never been in the endzone. He has 1.5 sacks. Ed Reynolds, the safety from Stanford (on an equally good defense, and nearly as successful team) has 6 picks for 301 yards and 3 TDs. Where is his Heisman love? A kid from Fresno State has 8 picks, 3 TDs and 4 sacks (!) which are all better than Te'o.
You need to be dynamic to win the Heisman, you need to put the team on your shoulders. I don't think Te'o has done that. I can't see someone winning the Heisman without ever sniffing the endzone.