Who is Notre Dame?
Has Notre Dame's hand been forced?
Some losers who lose 4+ games every year and have a coach who looks like a cabbage patch kid.
And who's most dramatic little green legend is also a white collar criminal.....RUDY...RUDY...RUDY
EDIT: Who WAS Notre Dame?
Fixed . . . . .
I like it when someone around here wakes those echos up
The baby seal we play every September to tune up for B1G play.
Everything isn't always about ND. Who cares what they do?
As far as I know they care...that's about it
Notre Dame is French for Our Lady which of course refers to Mary the Virgin Mother of God. It's a Catholic thing.
I doubt it. That said, if the likes of Michigan, USC, Stanford, Purdue and MSU start not to schedule ND on a regular yearly basis...it might have an effect.
I dont think the 9 conference game schedule is a done deal...but if it is...ya ND will be playing MAC teams.
Welcome to Philly, Coach Kelly.
USC, Stanford, Michigan and MSU replace their yearly ND game with a B1G or PAC-12 team respectively.
Those teams are the bulk of ND's SOS.
And see if all of those schools really want to force ND's hand. It would add another element to all of the rivalries if they decide to go through with it too.
Take USC off the list. That's untouchable. It is the original and still lasting national rivalry. The only one of it's kind. It dates back to Rockne.
I mean what's next, the Rose Bowl breaking up the Big Ten v. Pac 10 matchup or Texas and Texas A & M no longer playing?
Glad I won't live to see any of that ever happening.
Texas and A+M are no longer playing, at least UT's AD said that they have no room for out-of-conference games until 2017.
It's actually going to put USC and Stanford in a tough situation. They might not want to drop ND, but Larry Scott has said the P12 plans to keep its 9-game conference schedule. That means that if they play both a B10 team and ND every year, they will only have one game left to schedule. I'm pretty sure most Michigan fans would throw a tantrum if we ever boxed ourselves into a situation where we were effectively limited to selecting one different team to play every season.
The only one safe on this list is USC - neither side wants to drop that.
MSU, because of that historic 1966 game, is probably the next safest, but it could be dropped.
Anyone else think they might start scheduling more SEC teams?
The Big East, they'd get destroyed by most of the SEC.
True, but it doesn't mean they would need to schedule SEC West teams. There are certainly some beatable ones in the East. Kentucky, Vandy, Mizzu, Tennessee come to mind.
I doubt SEC teams are going to want to make their schedule more difficult by dropping a soft OOC opponent in favor of the Irish and put themselves at a potential disadvantage in the conference race.
I don't. They have a sweetheart deal to the BCS. They have absolutely no incentive to play a tougher schedule. As long as the BCS contract stuff holds for them, then just schedule a bunch of Big east/MWC teams and cruise into the BCS every year.
Well that was the general thought/hope anyways...
And go from playing the B1G/PAC12 to possibly higher rated treams? I doubt it considering ND's history of scheduling cupcakes outside of their games with the likes of USC and Michigan.
The possibility of ND remaining independent is high even if the conference schedules expand, but if there was ever a time where their hand would be forced this would be it.
They could be the New Boise - play/prepare for/win 1-2 tough games, then sit back and laugh their way into the BCS by playing MAC/WAC/Sun Belt competition.
Think about it, if they could spend all their time preparing for 1 or 2 decent OOC teams (say, MSU and USC) and with those games, then cruise over the likes of Army, Miami (NTM), and so on, what's to stop them from being ranked in the top 8 and going onto the BCS every year under the current agreements?
The only way that ND is going to be forced to join a conference is if they stop getting huge revenues from an exclusive TV contract and exemptions in the BCS selection criteria.
"That was my plan the whole time...play the 'seven sisters of the poor', Michigan, USC, Stanford and Michigan State. Split those last four games and you go to the BCS every year..."
...And we've got you surrounded... Now drop that peacock, and come out with your hands up!"
I think the OP absolutely nailed it. No matter if be design or simply a wonderful byproduct of a plan not involving them, this announcement absolutely forces ND into a conference or into a diluted scheduled of little consequence.
Someone above mentioned scheduling more SEC teams but last time I checked they were not exactly thrilled about putting difficult non-conference teams onto their schedule and they'll have their hands full already with their expanded league.
Notre Dame is finally boxed. I absolutely love it - suck on that NBC.
It's not that people don't want to see difficult non-conference games; it's that people don't like the SEC.
Big slam on Michigan-Alabama game next year to argue that it is part of the strategy of an SEC team "not exactly thrilled about putting difficult non-conference teams onto their schedule..."
I assume that the Pac-12 (Stanford/USC) would follow suit as well and drop ND for a B1G opponent. Why would they want to make their schedule even harder than it already is. If that happens then ND is totally screwed and would have to join a conference.
Doesn't really affect USC, as they've always scheduled very aggressively. The Big 10 game just replaces their annual game against a team from an AQ conference (past 10 years they've played auburn, nebraska, va tech, arkansas, OSU, in addition to ND)
I don't like the whole idea of forcing ND into the coference concept. If they don't want to be in the BIG then I don't want them in the BIG. One sided relationships don't work.
Well Notre Dame used to be hot and sexy and never gave you the time of day. Now they are looking like the prom queen that got fat, old and desperate. In other words they might really want a date now.
Do you think Delany's diabolical plan is to get ND to beg for B1G admission so he can tell them "no!"
That would be incredibly sinister. And I'd enjoy it a lot.
Hey Guys! Oh you wann join now, sorry clubhouse is full.
I think we're forcing them into the resurgent Big East Conference. Along with Army, Navy, Rutgers and Louisville.
And Villanova and Georgetown.
I think Notre Dame can be a power in the FCS.
This puts Notre Dame in a horrible position.
Not only are they looking at all of their marque games disappearing, but they also may be looking at any possiblity of joining the Big Ten disappearing also. With ten out of 12 teams in a year already counted for is their room to add two more teams to the conference. This may be the Big Ten and Pac-12 forcing Notre Dame to join the Big East.
I don't know. They have a sweetheart deal with the BCS. The only thing that's going to force ND's hand is after the BCS is gone and the next system doesn't give them the same. We may not need ND on our schedule, but MSU and Purdue aren't going to give that game up easily. Those are big national games for them. USC could care less about ND's conference alignments. That game isn't going anywhere. There are alot of other schools (Florida State, Big 12 teams, etc) that would love to have a series with ND. Delaney isn't going force B1G schools to drop ND off the schedule because that would pretty much put an end to any future expansion with ND or potential relationship.
....as I was listening to the announcement of this scheduling partnership on the radio this afternoon is exactly that - "So, which conference does Notre Dame wish to join then?". If both the Pac-12 and and the B1G suddenly have no time (or very little time, say, playing only every few years) for them, then I think their status as an independent is questionable unless they want to play Wake Forest and every directional Florida school every year. Do they become an upper-tier Big East team or a middling B1G team? I wonder what their egos could handle...
ND has no good options left. Even the ACC option has major problems, most notably the size of the conference. ND would be the 15th school and the ACC almost certainly will not stop with an odd number so that means someone else will join to make 16. Even if the ACC sticks with its current format of 9 conference games, ND will limited to three OOC games each year. Assuming they elect to keep the USC and Navy games, which are the two they always insist are non-negotiable, they will only have one game a year to schedule. Bye-bye to Michigan, MSU, Purdue and Stanford.
Looks like ND will be joining the ACC now. A selfish move but maybe the beat one for them
IMO the ACC is already too big geographically. They go Big 12 or B1G. The Frankenstein Big East will most likely be no more by 2017.
Thats the smart move join the b1g but they want control. Money isn't everything. They know that they will be an equal on the big ten, they have to be the big fish.
The ACC already has the same footprint (if not a bit smaller) as the big east. The ACC would probably be happy to add Notre Dame which would give them a big name team and travel would barely change for any of ND's other sports. Plus, the cultural fit should really be considered too
The old Big East or the one that includes teams in California and Idaho?
ND. Their act has grown old.
With the ACC moving to 14 teams it will affect ND even more.
BC and Pitt are not going to be looking for tough OOC games when they play a 9 game ACC slate.
they will play MAC teams and Big East Teams. With some CUSA teams thrown in.
While ND's situation is probably most relevant to Michigan, I am also interested in what other ramifications this collaboration will have. The SEC generally plays a very weak out of conference schedule (obvious exception is LSU this year). Will the SEC feel obligated to strengthen its out of conference scheduce and make a similar collaboration with another league (maybe Big12, ACC?).
If that is the case I suspect they would choose the ACC as the Big 12 is better at footbaw.
Or they can be like Boise State by playing one or two tough games a year resulting in 10 or 11 win seasons. But unlike Boise State, they have a clear method of entry into the BCS bowls.
They have and will always can recruit so they may continue to be overrated by the media/pollsters, so it may work for them to play in BCS bowls, but not for national championships.
They will schedule 2 games against ranked opponents. Lose both and still get into the bcs because they are a 10 win ND team. Thier only trips to the bcs have resulted in blowouts.
I would guess Michigan and USC are the two schools that if they took ND off the annual slate would make ND reconsider their independece. However, I would be shocked if USC dropped ND from their schedule. That is a big tradition game for both schools. The game has been played since 1926 and the series was only interupted during World War II. Additionally, USC has recently been unafraid of "strong" non-conference games. Michigan has taken breaks from ND before and would do it again if need be, but I highly doubt USC will do the same thing.
...it's that money talks, and historic rivalries walk.
With USC having a depleted roster and ND not a complete pushover I think USC won't have any problem dropping them.
Yea, that depleted roster really hurt them this year when they beat ND by 2 TD's...
If so, I think that any B1G or Pac10 team that plays 9 conference games + a championship game would risk putting a strong-ish team like ND on their schedule, especially if 1/2 of those games go to NBC and not ESPN/ the conference channel.
The Fighting Figure Skaters are screwed. There is nothing they can do now other than continue to win the September Championship and Heisman Trophy. Give it another decade or so and the media will have begun to figure it out.
Still getting use to this whole posting (and not just reading this blog) thing.
Link to ND figure skating video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwgiGRmdFZ0&feature=player_embedded#!
I like Notre Dame, it's a good school in a beautiful setting.
But they are a better fit in the ACC than in our conference or the Big East. The Big 12? Out of the question based on how they see their academic prestige.
And they're already playing basketball and other sports in the East.
What happened to "Irish"?
He was a good poster and would usually provide us with some insightful Notre Dame perspective. Did he just go into hiding after getting Denarded for the second year in a row or what?
Away taking grammar lessons
The last time I responded to this exact question it caused a shit storm of epic proportions and cost me over 10,000 points.
good guy act. He always seemed much more like a troll in disguise to me.
He'd take subtle jabs at Michigan and then wonder why people got up in arms. Hey, guy, you're on the prominent Michigan blog -- that shit won't fly.
The Big XII is cool with letting marquee programs keep thier revenue. ND wants to keep its revenue. Big XII needs more big name football programs. It's a match made in crazy college football realignment heaven.
I wrote this on the other thread...
I don't see why we have to get rid of ND...
Play 8 conference games a year.
Always play the ND home and home OPPOSITE the Pac-12 home and home.
You can still schedule a cupcake, you can still schedule a Michigan directional.
...am I missing something? How does this really change anything?
Our schedule could now look like this:
vs. Notre Dame
...8 B1G Games.
@ Notre Dame
...8 B1G Games.
How is that so much different from what we do now?
Basically we replace a home and home with a Pac-12 school for a 2nd game vs. a MAC team OR the SDSU game we got this year (Air Force next year, etc). You can still make a schedule with 1 MAC school, 1 Pac-12 school, 1 FCS school and ND and have 3 non-conference home games every year.
The general consensus is that it's only a matter of time before the B1G moves to 9 conference games, that's why. With the B1G/Pac 12 challenge, that only leaves room for baby seals.
Baby seals? Why would you want to beat one of them?
If that's the case...
Open with ND EVERY single year...home and home
Play your FCS team at home every year...
Play your home and home with the Pac-12 every year...alternating with ND.
a 9 game conference schedule? So 9 conference games, 2 home cupcakes, and 1 home/ home with somebody (maybe ND some years, or someone else)?
the damn cupcakes. we need to watch our figure. but seriously, only schedule one mac school, if need be. and only schedule western, central or eastern as that mac game. with a 9 game conf schedule that leaves two other games, one against a Pac-12 school and one more. should that be against ND, sure you gotta love kicking their ass almost as much as you love kicking FOSU asses. but what to do with that 12th game? how about a round-robin set up where Michigan plays any other school from an AQ conference.
I always want to beat ND. And I like seeing their hand forced. Their arrogance and hubris in avoiding conference affiliation is long overdue for comeuppance.
However, I would be intrigued by another possibility that I didn't see listed in the thread. What if PSU left the Big 10, and ND took their spot? Frankly, it is going to take time for PSU to clean things up, if ever. Sadly, they will be diminished for some time. Like toxic waste, their problems are so huge, they won't go away in the foreseeable future. The kind of things that happened could warrant the dreaded death penalty.
And to my way of thinking, ND is a better fit geographically for the Big 10 than PSU ever was. ND is better academically. ND is a good fit culturally. With Nebraska stretching the Big 10 to the west, this change would make Ohio State the furthest east school, and Nebraska the furthest west. While losing PSU would diminish TV market reach, it would be worth it from my perspective.
The reality? I doubt this happens, unless it is clear behind the scenes that PSU is going to be drummed out, ND is given a "come to Jesus" offer, and it is made clear that if they don't fish or cut bait immediately, the Big 10 will wash their hands of ND forever and approach Missouri. And if the Big 10 Conference is fine with keeping PSU indefinitely, well, then this speculation doesn't matter anyway.
EDIT: I also agree with the above poster, that my favorite possibility would be to have ND & a Pac 10 team scheduled at home alternate years, so that there is always somewhat of a marquee game scheduled in Ann Arbor, every year.
Indiana has been "diminished" forever and they're not going anywhere. I'd rather see a diminished Penn State every year than those arrogant donkeys in South Bend.
....about ND being clearly academically better than PSU.
I've recently interviewed some PSU EE grads that were pretty sharp and well-prepared. Whoever is running their EE program seems to have a good grasp of what is required to prepared new grads for current professional practice.
Now, I've never had the chance to speak with an ND engineering student, but based on what I've read their Engineering program is not one of the more significant programs at their institution.
about it. . . I agree. Whether it puts ND in a vice or not, it increases pressure on them. Personally I am happy if they are left out to dry. The B1G needs ND less this year than it did a year ago, will need them still less in the future. And as a small, private, Catholic institution with its head so far up its ass its own tonsils look like testicles to it. . . they don't fit the general profile.
...they lose the NBC contract, followed shortly by loss of their special BCS status. NBC is not going to drop $1M+ per game to broadcast home games against Ball St. and EMU.
You guys don't seem to get it. The BIG holds no cards of relevance towards ND. Stop playing us? Thats fine, we have other avenues to go. When we beat FSU tomorrow that will be 4 ACC teams we played this year.
Now before I get ahead of myself here I know we all can't schedule 8 home games. We all can't play East, West, Northern Michigan Polytech, UMass etc which is the power house that is your schedules.
But before you break your arm patting yourselves on the back, consider the following. ND starts to schedule MAC teams. ND starts to schedule the mid-majors. Hell I hear the Big12 will be dying for some OOC games. So now instead of playing the BIG we have 1 or 2 difficult games a year with 2 or 3 midrange games and the rest all cupcakes. 10-2 gets ND into the BCS.
So by virtue of the BIG "forcing NDs hand" you are locking yourselves out of a BCS game potentially for your own conference. And we laugh all the way to the bank.
Sorry to darken your days fellas, but ND needs you about as much as you need them. We don't need each other. So basically until Texas figures out what its long term plans are, you aren't forcing anyone into anything. In fact your joyful cackling glee is slowing being melted into sweet honey glaze that will adorn our BCS cheques.
As much as I would hate seeing the UM/ND game go away, in the end all it means to CFB is a great rivalry shelved.
can go 10-2 when I see it.
ND has been 'returning to glory' for some time now:
how about this Willingham?
decided schematic advantages...
some guy in New Mexico...
overstated resume glory...
oh, and this guy...
Schedule all the cupcakes you want, you'll still find a way to lose 4 games every year.
Crack on it all you like, but you know its true. Seems on your way to head us off at the pass, you got re-routed off a cliff. Time to update your GPS maps.
It's more likely that if your hardest games are against Toledo and Air Force that one loss will keep you out of the BCS.
What is a Notre Dame fan doing even talking about the BCS anyways?
Both times you've been there you've gotten absolutely destroyed. Maybe you guys should stick to the Hawaii Bowl.
ed: further, we're not talking about just losing Michigan on your schedule. We're talking about losing UM, MSU, Purdue, Stanford, and USC.
USC will never drop off our schedule.
While that may be true. They will play 9 conf game and Big Ten opponent, ND and one other. Somehow, I think they will seriously consider it. Nd shouldnt be worried, the way things are going all rivalries are going to be destroyed.
What you're saying now, is pretty much verbatim what ND fans were saying when their current agreement with the BCS went into effect.
How's that workin' out for ya?
You may not play Umass, or WMU or EMU but you have your equivalents like Navy, Air Force and South FL. Take Purdue, MSU and UM out of your schedule and you might find 1 or 2 FBS schools to replace them but probably not 3 and that means your record get discounted. It's not just about AP/USA rankings that gets you a BCS bid. Go ask Boise State about it.
We are one of 4 schools to never play an FCS team, I doubt we'd be in danger of losing out.
MAC fill ins...
I think we are all set.
Your nuts if you think an ACC or SEC team is going to drop a soft OOC oppponent to pick you up and make their schedule more difficult then the rest of their conference. Padding you schedule with MAC fill ins isn't going to help you out either.
Helps you guys.
If it works so well for you, why don't you go do it? Who is forcing you to play B10 teams? You didn't need to wait for the B10 and P12 to cut this deal before rearranging your schedule as you just wrote down. What are you waiting for?
You play the military academies still because of the historical significance of the games 50 years ago. Just join the big yeast infection already fire Brian Kelly and move on with your life
You play AirForce next year, congrats.
Yeah we've played them once in 1964.
One of the main reasons Notre Dame has an NBC contract is because they schedule teams with a lot of cachet, like Michigan, that will attract a lot of viewers whether they blow or not. While you say Notre Dame can go ahead and schedule say TCU, Oklahoma State or Boise State as replacements, you will find that this approach is all downside. Until Notre Dame emerges from its seemingly perpetual malaise they will be better served scheduling fewer schools whose quality exceed their noteriety, not more. Put another way, how much fun would it be playing a schedule of USFs, with an occassional Kansas State mixed in?
of arrogance and igorance. Thanks for so aptly reminding us all of that fact. If you guys lose UM, USC, Stanford, MSU and Purdue from your schedule it just hastens your continued slide into mediocrity. The NBC deal pays you less than the B1G network pays Indiana. Not to mention the fact that it is has been:
24 years since the last heisman
23 years since the last national championship
19 years since the last BCS bowl win
3 1/2 years since the last victory over Michigan..
Arrogance? You talk like the BIG is the end all be all? 10-2 and you are back? You backed into a BCS game, backed into an easy matchup. You pulled a miracle out of your ass to beat ND, you should have lost to OSU.
You are predicting the downfall of ND because the BIG is taking its ball and going home. Well boohoo.
pulled a miracle out of our asses to beat ND? LOL. we should have lost to FOSU? how do you figure we should have lost to FOSU? please expand on how a team that wins a game, actually should have lost that game? how did we back into a BCS bowl game? did michigan not finish in the top 14? since when has the responsibility of the BCS expanded past getting #1 vs. #2? that is the only matchup that matters to the BCS. all other bowl games are exhibition (sp?) games, nothing more, nothing less.
Did you miss the freshman QB chewing up your defense like yesterdays cud?
I'd ask if you were Damefan of Youtube fame, but I'm pretty sure that dude can't write.
So what good teams will ND play? If the B1G and PAC12 play 9 conference games a year and one other team from the other conference, then I can see Purdue, MSU, Michigan, USC and Standford all dropping ND. Would be a lot of teams to replace.
You're a great school down there in South Bend. There are a LOT of schools that would like to play a school like Notre Dame. You've got a lot going for you; you'll find some other rivlaries, or some other conference. It just hasn't been working between us, and really, it's not your fault. We know how hard you tried.
Section 1: Since the Under the Lights game, we've said a great many things. You said Michigan was to do the thinking for both of us. Well, we've done a lot of it since then, and it all adds up to one thing: you're getting on that plane to your bowl game with FSU, where you belong. You have any idea what you'd have to look forward to if you stayed with the current schedule? Nine chances out of ten, you'd wind up losing to Michigan, Michigan State and Purdue all in one year. Isn't that true, Louie?
Captain Renault: I'm afraid Coaches Hoke, Dantonio and Hope would insist.
phork: You're saying this only to make me go.
Section 1: I'm saying it because it's true. Inside of us, we both know you belong with the MAC. You're part of that culture, the thing that keeps Brian Kelly going. If that conference takes a 14th team and it's not you, you'll regret it. Maybe not today. Maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of your life.
phork: But what about us?
Section 1: We'll always have The Big House. We didn't have, we, we lost it once on a late field goal, until you came back to Ann Arbor. We got it back last September.
phork: When we said we would never fail to renew our deal.
Section 1: And there will plenty of deals for you. South Florida, Central Florida, Florida A&M, Florida Christian, Florida Gulf Coast, Florida Atlantic, Florida International, Nova Southeastern. But we've got a job to do, too. A Conference schedule to play. Where we're going, you can't follow. What we've got to do, you can't be any part of. Phork, I'm no good at being noble, but it doesn't take much to see that the problems of one little independent in northern Indiana doesn't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy college football world. Someday you'll understand that.
Here's looking at you kid.
But wait, its a touchdown.
he's a poor thrower
And where is it you are going? Beat OSU and play in the Rose Bowl? Congrats.
ND Nation is getting lonely. Go back and mingle with your brethen.
go ahead and schedule the MAC. just getting to a 10-2 record will not get ND into a BCS game because the SOS for ND with all those MAC schools will not get ND into the top 14.
ND has to be top 8 if I'm not mistaken.
top 8... special rule for ND. pretty lame.
People make a big deal about the "top 8" ND rule but, really, what elite program wouldn't get an at-large bid if it ended up in the top 8? We just got one by being ranked #13. If it was an exception offered to BSU or KSU, sure it would make a difference. But there is no scenario that ND would not get an at-large bid if it were ranked in the top 8. In practice, it's a totally worthless rule.
Yea but at the same time, they could do what Boise St has been doing for the past few years. Schedule one big time opponent opening week (Georgia, Va Tech, Oregon) and then have one or two respectable teams sprinkled in (Utah, TCU, San Diego St). Run the table or possibly even one loss could get them BCS. They may not get us, Sparty, USC, or Stanford, but they could still pull home and homes with some bigger programs.
selling season tix with a shitty schedule like you suggest.
10-2 guarantees ND is in the BCS if they are in the top14, just like you. Just like you, we are a big draw and would selected over the likes of Boise etc. Its not 100%, but its pretty close. Top 8 is 100% according to the BCS rules. And we only have to have 9 wins.
I'm not sure it necessarily effects either team all that much. This year, for instance, M plays ND, Bama, and Air Force. In 2017, a P10 team takes either of the latter two slots on the schedule. No biggie.
I just hope the B1G does not allow them to join. It would really do me good to see ND stuck playing all the military schools and a bunch of MAC teams. They were always to good for the Big Ten.
The hell with Notre Dame ....