someone cue the Billy Madison clip.
Tennessee is not recruiting well just because they got 18 dudes
someone cue the Billy Madison clip.
It is real hard for a coach to come in and swipe away in-state kids while being hired so close to signing day. It's definitely unfair to judge his prowess in getting the Michigan kids based on 3 weeks of work. I would wait until a year from now to judge that. I think he will do VERY WELL in recruiting the state of Michigan's best talent next year.
Your point is well taken. But Brady Hoke got the MEDIA in the state to commit to him instantly and that may be the biggest recruiting win so far.
Your conclusion may end up being corect or incorrect, but at this time it's neither. You're ready to debunk a myth after 2 weeks? Let's see how Hoke does in Michigan for his first two full classes, then we'll go back to your myth, k?
Hoke has been recruiting for less than a month, and regarding Rodriguez just look at the past top 5-10 recruits of Michigan in the past few years and see how effective he was.
Speaks for itself.
nor was he fired prematurely. How about 3 and 15 in 'red letter" games?
No where does it state that RR was fired solely because of his (in)ability to recruit. It talks about the myth that RR did not recruit enough players in the state of Michigan.
EDIT: Removed second paragraph because I was wrong.
IF RR could have gotten a top notch coordinator, it would have been right to keep him. Without a new DC who was allowed to, you know, coach what he knew, it was time for RR to go.
A response may be that RR was not given opportunity ti get a good DC. To this I say, rumors indicated the only dc rr pursued was casteel. There are other rumors that say he pursued others and was turned down. Either way, it would have been time for a change.
The opinion on RR's recruiting of Michigan probably manifested because Michigan signed two of the top ten players in the state in 09 and one in 10.
Head coaches don't normally recruit, that's where the staff comes in BH is limited in what he can do as the head coach.
... if the person asking the question provides a 500 word answer to it?
Hoke has been a part of closing all recruits. Plus, don't forget, he basically had to re-recruit all the commits we already had. Some were in for sure, but others I'm sure took convincing and persuading. I will go with the experts on this one and they have praised him for a job well done!
ABC. Always. Be. Closing.
Hoke gets coffee
He's been the coach for all of about two weeks. Did you expect him to flip Thomas, Arnett or Zettel? Those guys were all solidly committed when he came aboard and pouring the snake oil with them would have been a huge coup. Who else should he have tried to recruit? He has an incredibly short time and isn't going to waste his time on low probability guys. Enough of the crying about RR's mistreatment. Turn the page.
The point is that the worn out (should have been worn out) drumbeat of "Rodriguez screwed up Michigan in-state recruiting; ruined connections with in-state coaches"; blah, blah, blah continues unabated.
But, as noted in several other posts, bringing up facts in an attempt to overcome the Brady Hoke slobber fest that includes distorting the Rodriguez record is an exercise in futility, and is probably best shelved.
...why be irrationally negative about Hoke? He picked up Taylor and kept the other in-state recruits, which was a good recruiting job. That's not slobbering, that's a fact. The OP admits Hoke has done pretty well given the situation so if this is just another "oh, boo hoo, RR was treated unfairly by the media post," I agree with most other replies on here: Give it up, or at least title the post as such, and leave Hoke out of it. Time will tell how he recruits the state but 2-3 weeks is not that time.
Why would we want to "overcome the Brady Hoke slobberfest"? Isn't it a good thing that the media is on his side?
Not for people that love Rodriguez more than the program.
...the big beef regarding in-state recruiting came during 2009 & maybe 2010 when Michigan State got a ton of Rivals 4-stars (particularly 2009-Gainer, Carper, Norman, Spencer, Sims) from Michigan, many of whom apparently got completely ignored by UM (though not all, and there were some of MD's Renaissance commits, but not all). Rich Rod did much better in in-state recruiting this year, but the previous 2 years were not great.
I think that the topic is extremely dumb given the situation. It may have been long winded but to make such a statement at this point in the process makes no sense and makes me question the OP's motives.
Was your point that Valdez Showers has an awesome name?
Because he totally does.
speaking of which, there's a DB in next year's class from Southfield named Leviticus Payne.
Which, as you know, will not change the prevailing mass-media-promoted notion that RR didn't recruit Michigan or midwest kids, and that he only wanted players from Florida. Brady Hoke is their anointed savior, and that concept has acquired an unstoppable, train-like momentum that will last at least until we get back on the field next season. That's not Hoke's fault; all he's doing is trying to do the best job he can as Michigan's coach, and so far it appears as though he's doing a very good job at the immediate tasks in front of him.
There's virtually nothing you can do to change this in the larger world beyond MGoBlog, and you'll drive yourself crazy if you think you can. You can have an effect here, and that's about it.
The disease and rot afflicting mass-media sports journalism is just a subset of that which afflicts journalism in general, with unhappy effects on politics and public affairs. I won't say more for obvious reasons.
Perception is reality, especially in the media. The story was that Rodriguez recruited a bunch of speedy midgets (guys like Lewan, Hopkins, Campbell, Ash, and Washington become surprisingly svelte when viewed through media goggles) with dreadlocks and long rap sheets who didn't understand Michigan or deserve admission to our pristine bastion of higher learning. He then implemented a faggy offense (the "spread won't work" meme did die a little late in his tenure but was going strong for much of it) and an even faggier defense (the fact that we ran the 3-3-5 way less than half the time he was here and that our current head coach ran the same defense last year is irrelevant) so he could get more of his dumb dwarfs on the field at the same time and remove any chance of Michigan being competitive with the best teams in the Big Ten.
Hoke, on the other hand, is going to have tough, disciplined, hard-nosed teams that excel in the classroom and embody the virtues of baseball, apple pie, and democracy (which, as we all know, was invented in the Midwest just before smashmouth football). No one is going to write a lengthy article about how Rawls (a guy no other AQ programs have offered) doesn't deserve to get into Michigan in light of his academic struggles in high school and that Hoke is a devious bastard for even recruiting him, for example.
I certainly wish things had gone differently, but I don't see how being a media darling is a bad thing for Michigan. PR has its place in college football and Hoke is excelling in that respect (and will probably continue to do so for quite some time) no matter what he actually does on the job. I'll take more coverage like the front page Rivals article (on the main site a few days ago) about how losing Hart, Frost, and Crawford while stealing a few meh recruits from Minnesota, Indiana, and Purdue indicates that we are now "rolling" in the recruiting process. While it is certainly unfair bullshit to the guy who was here before, I'll take all the positive headlines we can get right now.
anything that helps put the 3yr nightmare behind us is a good thing. I don't see how articles emphasizing the differences in the two eras should be panned.
Oh my god get over it.
I will defend Beilein from the idiots that want him gone, but using his record against state as a measuring stick vs RR yields fairly similiar results(JB 0-4, RR 0-3)
I love that quote, not only because of the words but because Drew Sharp is a little bitch
Neither coach beat State in his first three years at Michigan (which was the poster's point). If the same standard had been applied to both coaches Beilein wouldn't have been on the bench last night.
If they were held to the same standard (not the "I expect to win at one sport and don't and/or don't really care about the other one" standard which you so eloquently exhibited), all we would have heard about is how Beilein has never finished higher than tied for 7th in the Big Ten (a feat his maligned predecessor equaled or surpassed in 4 of 6 seasons), "ran off" Ekpe Udoh, forced his "gimmicky system" (that of course will never work in the super awesome Big Ten) on Harris and Simms (much more talented than Threet/Sheridan), and doesn't get and/or can't win the rivalry game.
Luckily for Beilein and the basketball program, this school has a bunch of bandwagon fans who love following a winning football team but don't give a shit about basketball (SEE Crisler Arena, attendance) so our AD probably isn't going to fire two proven head coaches while they're in the middle of turning around subpar programs simply because the masses are dumb and/or impatient.
Michigan State is 12-8, .500 in the Big Ten, and just had a starter booted off the team. If they are a "decent team" then so are the 8-5 Notre Dame team (that blew out Miami in their bowl game and beat USC with a backup QB), the Illinois team (.500 in the Big Ten and blew out Baylor in their bowl game), and the UConn team (won the Big East) that Rodriguez beat this year. And like I said, this is year 4 for Beilein in a sport where recruits take less time to develop.
The standard Rodriguez failed to live up to is "win no matter how shitty a team you inherit because many Michigan football fans are dumb and spoiled." But feel free to keep patting yourself on the back because your genius "team lose = coach bad" mentality has carried the fucking day.
...University of Michigan has what is universally considered the worst basketball facilities in the Big 10 (and some claim worst in the country, but I'm not going that far) which is considered to make it much more difficult to recruit. Fact, Beilen went to the NCAA Tournament *and* won a game in his second season (the equivalent of which Rich Rod did not do in his second season).
But by all means continue to act with an unwarranted and annoying sense of being unduly wronged, it makes you soo appealing.
JB led a team noone expected anything out of to huge wins over top-5 teams in Duke and UCLA, then took us to the tournament. This year, we competed with three of the top teams in the country down to the wire.
See RR: Not even remotely competitive against any of the tough teams on our schedule this year. Understand his firing wasn't unwarranted, his situation nowhere near the same as JB's, and move on.
I'm pretty sure without Lucious, Beilein's squad is more talented than Michigan State's. In last night's game, a couple times they were playing what amounts to two walk ons at the same time. I think Michigan might be deeper and more talented as crazy as that sounds
You need to learn how to read. I didn't say we have higher ranked guys in the recruiting rankings, I said we have more talent. If you think Roe is playing like a five star kid, go ahead. If you think Nix is playing like a 4 star kid, great. The only thing he has done in 2 years is put back his own missed dunk while hanging on the rim. If you want to argue because Novak and Douglass were 3 star guys they aren't as talented as Byrd and Guana, great. You misplace star ratings with actual basketball talent. If they are so fucking talented, why the hell were there 2 walk ons on the court at the same time last night? And if you say because all their talent is really young but good, ill take that as you not seeing how extremely ironic that statement is.
So... if we are "so talented" than we should finish down the stretch much better than Michigan State, right?
dude, smoke some weed or something
Sure, Hoke may not have had to do much to get Taylor to UM, and the same will be for Rawls. But are you saying that in the past, when we were winning the B1G year in and year out that Bo, Carr and others had to really recruit the best players in the state? They were waiting for an offer and would commit as soon as they received it. If Hoke starts producing winners again, it will be the same as it used to be. The top kids in the state will want to play for UM and we will be able to select top recruits to target from the midwest and the rest of the country. That will be where he can really show what kind of recruiter he is. Not whether he can convince a lifelong fan of UM to come to play at his dream school.
A few weeks ago we were afraid this class would have a dozen guys and leave a crater in the program for years to come. Now, we're trying to figure out who to leave out. This has been a resounding success so far, and if they can add Cooper it will be a fantastic job considering the circumstances. Trying to blow up the old Rich Rod myths is pointless. WE know how it really went down, and isn't that good enough? Anybody who bought/buys into that crap isn't worth your time and effort. You'll just have to settle for rolling your eyes when some bluehair digs up that stupid myth. Just remind them where Gardner came from in a couple years when he's going Death Star on our opponents.
Yet another tearful whinefest from Section 1, the chief apostle for St. RichRod.
OP, just take a year off and follow RR to his next team. No worries.
and let his term at Mich fade away. He will likely be very successful at his next step and he will want this blot on his career record to slip from public memory.
Ah, but you've forgotten the lambasting of Braylon Edwards. Several times over.
i have not heard that any of them are married, so i suppose they are single.
You seriously need some help. TL;DR
Remember the thread on the poster that you like the least.
Yeah...i never commented on that one, but section 1 you get my vote. Everytime you make one decent comment you follow it up with crap like this. He has had two weeks to recruit kids that have been recruited by other coaches for years. If he only pulls 3 out of the top 10 MI kids next year we can revisit this topic. But lay-off the man.
And yes raymon taylor does count, as will Rawls and Fischer if they do commit. You can't just disregard this sooo easily because it makes your argument better.
First off saying a recruit came because of the school not the coach Is true with every coach at UM. Are they the coaches recruit or the schools? You could say that every recruit comes, in varying degrees because of the school. So do we now need to create a metric to measure that so we can gauge recruiting efficacy? Your premise is absurd. Sometimes being a good recruiter, much like being a good salesperson, is to let the product sell itself. Sometimes it's enough to not screw it up then to make it happen and knowing when is the appropriate time. Additionally, in your edit you profuse to be in the camp of blogging being more aligned with credible information sources like journalism than the banter of mere rabble. What smacks as insincere in your incredulity is the thinly veiled bias towards Rodriguez. So don't act offended when trying to make a point of comparison between Hoke and Rodriguez's recruiting abilities when all your really doing is attempting to have yet another debate as to why the ousted coach shouldn't have been ousted after the fact. Stop living in the past and move on.
And so here we go yet another round of the wrongs of the RR firing. Some of you thought that 3 years wasn't enough time. It wasn't just 3 years it was 3 years of futility with no real hope of it changing significantly in the near future. The D was awful the ST were awful and the O was marginal. Looked great against weaker opponents but against worthy competition it wasn't good enough. The issues with the D and ST were inexcusable in my mind. The fumbling and poor ball protection. It was time for a change.
Be that as it may you posting like a fanboy about how unfair the criticism of RR recruiting is pathetic. You should expect to get flamed. The guy had good recruiting classes which makes the teams mediocrity even more damning.
Again get over it. We can't go back and our responsibility now is to get behind coach Hoke and hope that all the hype about his recruiting and coaching skill is true. If not we'll be back here again in 3 years to debate it endlessly.
You also can't make any accurate comparisons regarding recruiting until Hoke has a full season under his belt.
I saw a kid in the student section last year wearing a Stanford hat.
The commenters here lately are that kid.
This post is valid in that it is the same type of shit thrown about when RR was hired.
Kids from FLORIDA!??! NEVAAAR!!!!!!
Damn fine speech by Da Hoke-ster though. Damn fine.
You're just going to be insufferable all year long, aren't you?
I saw a kid in the student section last year wearing a Stanford hat.
The commenters here lately are that kid.
i thought you were trying to equate what was ostensibly that dude's fair weather allegiance to Stanford with mgobloggerdudes' zealotry for Michigan
cuz that would have been funny
I am butt hurt about how RR was let go when I believe he was on the rise and should have been retained. I admit that. Because of how horribley he was treated here I will not blindly follow Hoke because he promises to play "hard nosed football" etc.. I will let him win me over with the team he puts out on the field. Until then all he does and can do is talk.
I take issue with the blind faith this fan base has for him when they couldn't be paid to give the same faith to a man only three years ago because he happened to coach at Tulane when he was coming up rather than coach D-Line at Michigan. It's stupid. The fan base is unappreciative, entitled, whiney and terribly annoying and really doesn't deserve success based on their actions. I hope for those fans who actually do support the coaches, no matter where they happened to get their start, that we start to win again under Hoke. To say we deserve that would be way off.
This blog, at least, was very supportive of RR during some very tough seasons. I can't speak for the entire fan base, because - besides this blog - I stay far, far away from them, but I don't feel the posters here are any less or more supportive of Hoke than they were RR.
I think there's something you're misconstruing. From what I can tell, there are a lot of posters on this board who agree that RR was mistreated. Like, a lot. They also believe he didn't play the shitty hand he was dealt very well. And both of those things are true.
Should RR have been retained? It's moot at this point. BUT, I think what you're seeing is a lot of people getting behind the new coach because they don't want a repeat of what happened with RichRod. The posters here are a lot less whiny (save some of them) than the typical Michigan fan. My sister and brother-in-law are about as whiny and entitled as it gets - and they have a signed photo of Lloyd Carr on their mantle (not a joke). It seems to me that the MgoCommunity is throwing its support behind Hoke, because we saw what happened when we didn't do that the last time.
I'm guessing Rodriguez will get over his firing faster than you will.
Equating posters who are showing support for Hoke to some misguided idea that they wanted Rodriguez out is ridiculous.
Also, singling out our fanbase as unappreciative and whiny is stupid too. Any fanbase that is used to winning is going to gain a sense of entitlement. Look at the MSU boards last night after the game and you'll understand what I'm saying. Look at Texas and Florida message boards this year. There's a correlation between winning and whining....you should know this.
I was quietly optimistic just as I think most fans were when RR came in but he wasn't on the rise when he left, his improvement was incremental at best. RR had 3 years and didn't get it done and now I will give Hoke the same time frame. But Hoke isn't coming into A2 trying to bend the program to his will he's trying to return it to the traditions that made it great. I don't think the fan base has blind faith but you have to admit he's doing the right things and saying the right things which stands in stark contrast to how RR came in. RR came in amid controversy regarding his contract, how he handled himself when informing his team, rumors of him destroying documents, a court battle over breach of contract, changing UM culture with the #1 jersey. The list goes on and on. People were already freaked about what he was going to do on the field to change the program without having to worry about how he was going to completely change the culture. Hoke has none of these things going on. Now if he doesn't get it done on the field that is how he will ultimately be judged but for now what we're seeing looks good.
Yeah....because you are being totally the opposite of whiny and terribly annoying in your defense of Rich Rodriguez who IS NOT our coach anymore and was fired because of what his teams did on the field. It has become apparent through what you have posted on this board since Rich Rod was fired that you are a bigger fan of him than the University of Michigan. This is far worse than the words you used to describe your beef with much of the fanbase.
I am a student you fucking idiot.
You must be the William James of U of M.
Poor RichRod. He was such a victim. Everything that happened in the last three years was someone else's fault. Except the offense. That's all RichRod.
Can we please put the I <3 RR topic to bed. Yes, some felt he got a raw deal but its done now.
For the sake of Section 1, I pray that the media jumps all over Hoke. By the time the season starts RR will be out of heart and out of mind for most fans and media, and I fear Section 1 will have to reach even deeper to pull out his thought bubbling posts about the "conspiracy" that led to RR's ultimate demise, or how his name is still being dragged through the mud. It's ova. The tune will not change because the song is dropping off the charts. I no longer care what the media says about RR, and I surmise that I'm not alone. Out of sight, out of mind. This thing reads like a crazy dude typing shit in his mom's basement about how aliens are going to steal the first born of American leaders to weaken the country for an upcoming invasion. I don't believe that rhetoric, but at least I still read it from time to time, unlike these irrelevant rants.
I think you misspelled "the truth." The aliens are sure to capitalize on your lack of vigilance. Unless of course, you're one of them...
Run for your lives!
Perhaps. But I refuse to live in fear, even if that means a liquidated earth planet, and a probe or two.
You say probe like it's a bad thing.
It depends on the coldness and length of the probe, but, yes, pleasure is a fine line.
Those aliens aren't back there romancing your bottom. Anyone acting like an outer space anal probing is a good thing has obviously never been abducted in real life.
Another RR fanboy taking a jab at Hoke.
He'll have at least two four star prospects by the end of this class. The midwest is loaded next year, and I expect Hoke to start cleaning house in state, especially with Mattison behind him.
I'm not entirely sure how to take this comment...I'm not sure I like your tone.
in a little over two weeks with the recruiting train wreck he inherited. IMO, "excellent" or "amazing" would be more appropriate words. Of course, we'll see how things finish out.
Given that you seem to be more loyal to Rich Rodriguez than to the Michigan program as a whole, can we assume that those coveted seats in Section 1 will not be renewed?
Also, please enclose them in this self-addressed stamped envelope I'll be sending your way.
Perhaps he'll be switching his tickets to Section 8.
He will be tailgating outside the CBS College Sports studios on signing day to support his coach.
I was with you until you started flaming people and calling them dumb-asses. M-Live is over that way -------> (or maybe it is that way <------).
My personal belief is that "Doesn't recruit Michigan players" is a meme pushed by homer sports writers. Crazed individuals that somehow thing Michigan produces a lot of talent. Yes we have some good programs but when you have Ohio and its programs 40 miles to the south, this is no reason to spend a lot of time sorting through every program in the state for the few sleeper recruits when you could journey south and be knee deep in four stars. Carr never really recruited Michigan extensively. He grabbed some talent when he saw it (Woodley, Edwards, etc), but Carr worked across the entire MidWest, PA Coal Country and ventured down into Texas and Cali. He didn't spend his time sorting through all the various Michigan high schools, he went after national names for the most part. When one of those people appeared in Michigan, he locked them down but he didn't focus on the state.
So basically in my view this entire argument over recruits or doesn't recruit Michigan doesn't really matter. In my view both RR and Carr grabbed the top recruits in the state and then got the hell out of the state to finish up the class. Hoke has kept Hayes as a commit and gone national, just like his two predecessors. The only really difference was that Carr and Hoke seem to like the Texas area more while RR liked Florida.
Yes RR was treated unfairly by the media when he was coach, and he did recruit more locally than the media will give him credit for, but his tenure as coach is over now, and it is time to move on. Also, we do not know the specifics of his firing so to say that we let him go prematurely is not factual. What if the situation came about where DB told him that in order for him to stay he had to get rid of basically all his defensive coaches and RR said no? You can't necessarily say that he shoulda gotten another year because we really do not know all of the facts.
I understand the point you were getting at, and I think it has merit, though I'm not it really was that big of a myth for anybody other than those rely solely on 97.1 and MLive for their Michigan sports fix. UM recruits reasonably well in the state and usually gets the big-name kids, but it is a national program that can go into virtually any region in America and compete for the top kids. OSU can do that, Notre Dame can do that, and that's about it in the midwest. So while I guess it means something to people that Hoke is "fixing" the lie that RR can't recruit in-state, I don't see it as much of an issue.
On an unrelated note, though - there was no need to respond to specific "idiots" or "a-holes" in your post. The internet is filled with anonymous tough guys who take shots - look at Antonio Cromartie-Matt Hasselbeck for guys talking tough but whom I am fairly certainly wouldn't touch each other in real life - and it is best to ignore them or respond to them specifically. Calling guys jerks for being jerks doesn't really move the conversation along, and MGoBlog is the only place I've seen in the sports ecosystem that generally doesn't devolve into Godwin Law-level hysterics. Let's try to keep it that way.
When the AD spends part of his press conference emphasizing the need for a coach with midwestern recruiting ties, he either thinks it is an important problem that requires some change (which is dumb, but I wouldn't put it past Brandon at this point) or he thinks the meme is important enough that he has to respond to it, if only cosmetically. Either way, this nonsense does have an impact on how things get done at Michigan.
Can now live the fruits of their lack of support of him and the young team. We had the RB we needed committed and the kicker. A bunch of freshmen would have figured out how to be an average defense in a year or two even with GERG. Equals nationally competitive. Now we go the way of OSU, USC, Notre Dame, Miami, Washington, etc...before us. Sk it dense and unrealistic M fanbase (and of course David Brandon, whose chewy tasteless head I continue to eat).
Well if those young freshmen DBs could have figured out how to be a good defense with GERG (follicely endowed version) coaching them, imagine how much quicker they'll figure it out with GERG (follicely lacking version) coaching them.
We really need the neg button working to deal with the trolls.
And our offense will bottom out under Borges because his idea of "adjusting his offense to the players he has" is going to be a few "wildcat" plays. Just you wait. Denard will be nowhere near as explosive next year because Borges will be taking away his greatest offensive talent (his legs). Look at how great Pryor did in a pro-style (not great).
Pryor did poorly because he is a clueless moron. I can't wait to see if his Wonderlic is lower than Vince Young's. He is bad not because of his physical skills, but because he makes terrible decisions.
1. Pryor didn't do poorly. He's 31-4 as a starter and finished 10th nationally in passer rating.
2. I don't want to speak for His Dudeness, but I think rather than actually predicting an offensive cliff dive, he was just presenting a negative hypothetical to counter CRex's flowery assertion of vast defensive improvement.
Lets see, with Denard using his legs we had:
1. Burn Gardner's redshirt (in part also because Tate was in the doghouse, but still Gardner only came in because Denard went out).
2. Have Tate come in for that Illinois thriller.
3. Have teams send the entire house at Denard and shut him down since we had no running game (see 14 points in the bowl, the tOSU game, 3 quarters of the Iowa game, etc).
I think I'm okay with Denard passing a little more and taking fewer hits. I'd rather he have three more healthy years while showing us his arm strength (and that arm is strong). As a Philly area native I always remember the lesson of McNabb, an amazing running talent for the first years of his career and then all those hits caught him with and he ended up as a slightly above average mobile QB. I'd rather Denard take fewer hits in the interest of extending his career with both us and the pros.
Plus what is the point of having Stonum, Odoms, etc if we don't throw to them?
Wish we had Denard for 3 more years, Denard is a junior next season, but you knew that already.
There is only one way to win, the pure, the divine, the ONE SPREAD. Without it, we will fall into darkness.
"The real point of all of this has nothing to do with Hoke's skills or deficiencies, but rather with the exploding myth that Rich Rodriguez was somehow a deficient Michigan recruiter whose errors, in Michigan, are now being somehow corrected by Hoke."
So if the real point has nothing to do with Hoke, why the provacative title?
In fairness, a more accurate title would seem to be "the exploding myth that Rich Rodriguez was somehow a deficient Michigan recruiter". Isn't the point of your post to demonstrate that Hoke has not recruited Michigan kids in the current class, but that RR did?
I think his point is that both the "Rodriguez doesn't recruit in-state" and the "Hoke has restored Michigan's in-state recruiting efforts" headlines are both nothing but media constructs that don't necessarily reflect actual events, but rather an agenda on the part of the media outlets putting them out there.
As others have pointed out, however, it doesn't really matter at this point and I'm certainly not going to get mad if the media is now biased in favor of the Michigan head coach.
state recruits. He could have made more and lesser offers (and filled the class) in state and not. I was of the mindset that he should do exactly that as of 2 weeks ago. I'm pleased with the progress since. If he can get Cooper, Bryant and/or Fisher at this point...I would be ecstatic.
In state vs out of state is not a UM issue. We want the best. RR had some doors closed to him that Hoke doesn't. Let's wait and see what happens here before raising this spartan topic.
As long as the media and the HS coaches buy into the Michigan Man thing, and perpetuate the perception that goes with it, good things will happen in Ann Arbor. Hoke's first class, next year, will be the first one we can truly judge anyway.
Hoke walked into a clusterfuck and is doing the best he can. Honestly, he is doing a much better job than I thought he could possibly do and I am very pleasantly surprised. As for those HS coaches, I hope they hear "Hoke" and "Michigan Man" at least a thousand times each by next recruiting season.
I want to neg you so hard.
I'm bookmarking this thread for that purpose.
The OP is making distinctions without any functional difference. It seems he has defined "recruiting" so narrowly as to mean something like "stealing five star recruits who are already committed to Florida, Alabama, Texas and USC." As far as I can tell, he is extending offers and people are committing to come to the university. He is also filling areas of need for this team. He is doing it with no lead time. A positive first couple of weeks, I would say. Whether you think RR got jobbed or not is irrelevant in terms of evaluating Hoke.
Going forward, it does remain to be seen whether or not he can compete for the nation's top athletes going head to head with the nation's top schools, but that is a discussion for next year and the year after. For now, I would give him and his staff a positive grade.
Just throwing that out there...so, I don't really understand the point of your post. I mean, sure the media is ridiculous, but is that really breaking news at this point?
Also anyone saying posters here have "blind faith" need to stop. Seriously. Give the majority of us non-trolls a bit more credit than that. I support Hoke, because why would I not? He's the coach, he's done pretty good job with recruiting. Am I upset with how RR was treated? Absolutely. But let's not bring Hoke down because our fanbase is actually doing what they never did for RR.
In short, it sucks for RR. But he was fired for a reason. I wish him the best, but we all need to stop looking back so much and move forward with the program and the new coach.
Call me crazy, but I don't remember a whole lot of the "RR doesn't recruit Michigan" meme. I mean, yeah, Section 1 creating a tempest in a teapot is nothing new, but I honestly don't remember that criticism being lobbied too hard against RR, nor have I seen it get used a heck of a lot in the last few weeks, either...
...going around. Basically people thought that MSU was taking over the state in recruiting because RR was looking down to Florida to fill the roster. There was an article in the Freep this week with a national recruiting expert talking about Hoke repairing the damage that RR did in-state with HS coaches. A lot of folks in the media and blogs (not this site) went with the theory that MSU was taking over the state in recruiting. It was an ignorant, superficial look at where the in-state kids were going. They were grabbing more in-state kids than we were, but it most cases, MSU did not beat us out. We were not actively recruiting the kids.
I agree with your post. The main reason RR failed is due to lack of support from Bill Martin and Dave Brandon. It was a twofold lack of support in both Martin and Brandon. First, they would not pay for a defensive coordinator. Greg Robinson was paid $270,000. I don't believe Casteel was going to come to Michigan while taking a $70,000 pay cut. He was making $340,000+ at WVU. The SEC pays $500,000 to $700,000 for DC and Texas paid $900,000 last year. If you want to play with the big boys you have to pay like the big boys. No leadership from Martin or Martin. Secondly, never, did either Brandon or Martin voice public support for RR or ask for alumni and former players to back the then current coach as is being done now for Hoke, who I like a lot. Failed, ineffective, cheap, shortedsighted, weak and stupid leadership from both AD's. There is no way RR was going to succeed in making the massive changes he was trying to make. Now we go back to smashmouth, Big Ten style football, which will get us competitive in B10 but not a national championship. B10 is a doormat. 9000 student TCU beats Wisconsin, and B10 goes 0-5 New Years day. RR would have changed that with some standup, visionary leadership from our AD's
Damn it, the image was too wide...
But between Section 1's mental breakdown just about being complete, and His Dudeness giving up any pretense of doing anything but trolling, their utter failure is just kinda funny now.
"The answer, I think, given a reasonable definition of "recruit," is No."