Harbaugh who?
So, I was listening to the radio early today (1130 I believe) as they discussed Michigan football, the recent misery and need to win now. Then they proceeded to delve into the Harbaugh talk. They argued that if we have another bad year, we'll be in a bigger hole the following season because Harbaugh runs a different style of football with completely different players.
Without getting into the how-many-games-does-RR-need-to-win discussion, I just don't get why it's either RR or Harbaugh. Are RR and JH the only coaches in the nation? ** disclaimer - I'd rather just win now with RR than even have to wait for 2011 **
That being said, I want to attack the notion that a coaching change (even to an "old school" coach like Harbaugh) would require completely different players. Here is a list of our commits who also fielded offers from, wait for it, Stanford:
Brennen Beyer
Kellen Jones
Jack Miller
Chris Rock
-That's nearly half of our current commits who also had offers from Stanford. Then, taking a look at top-100 rated "targets" (Rivals list), both schools have offers out to the following (although some have already committed elsewhere): George Farmer (WR), Christian Westerman (OT), Doran Grant (CB), DeAnthony Arnett (WR), Trey DePriest (LB).
So, here's the quick summary:
1. Win now and don't worry about a coaching change,
2. If we need to change coaches, why the hell is Harbaugh the only other option, and
3. Even if we lose and hire Harbaugh, the notion that his program would require a destruction of the current roster is inaccurate...but still, just win now
August 3rd, 2010 at 11:19 PM ^
someone posted about this today regarding lineman, etc.
August 3rd, 2010 at 11:21 PM ^
I think the major need would be an elite pro style QB and some more elite wideouts. Maybe also more focus on TE's. But that is a far cry from having to start all over.
August 4th, 2010 at 12:27 AM ^
The transition from spread to pro style would be much easier than pro to spread. I think Gardner could definitely run a pro style offense.
"... runs a different style of football with completely different players..."
This *really* needs to die.
August 3rd, 2010 at 11:21 PM ^
Hmmm...If that's the case, oops, sorry. I didn't see it.
August 3rd, 2010 at 11:29 PM ^
Devin Gardner could do well in a hybird style offense. I don't see why everyone thinks it has to be strictly one or the other. People seem to think there is no middle ground between Carr's pure pro style and RR's all out spread. That said RR will be our coach for a long time so it won't ever be a problem.
August 3rd, 2010 at 11:57 PM ^
See Terelle Pryor...
... Pryor is the poster child for a spread QB stepping up to run a pro style offense. His best work thus far has been with his feet and he really has only had one good game as a passer (and I said good not great). This is a big year for him and I don't see him panning out the way everyone thinks he will, you know NC and Heisman and all, but we will see.
August 3rd, 2010 at 11:36 PM ^
Win now and don't worry about a coaching change.
This team and coaching staff is very hungry, and ready to prove the haters wrong. I have a good feeling this team will come out with a huge chip on their shoulder and kick some ass this year.
August 3rd, 2010 at 11:39 PM ^
Can we just settle down until practice starts? Wait till you start hearing about Vincent Smith tearing up camp and Denard Robinson throwing TD's and making people look foolish with his feet. Wait until you hear about Roh eating people alive and Ezeh and Mouton plugging gaps and breaking up passes. Maybe I've had a few too many at Ashley's this evening, but come on people can we just enjoy this season without worrying about what will happen next year? Rich Rodriguez is our coach, and I believe he's a damn good coach. We're still young, but we're hungry and we're going to play like it.
Let's enjoy this season. Go Blue.
It'd be way too Ezeh to make a joke about plugging gaps.
Sorry, I just came from the fish thread.
August 4th, 2010 at 12:02 AM ^
This endless and exceedingly premature discussion about RR's "successor" reminds me of a popular sign on golf courses:
"Please do not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling."
August 4th, 2010 at 12:11 AM ^
Is this the tomhagan signal?
August 4th, 2010 at 12:26 AM ^
And originally got neg-banged, then got a wave of pos-bangs, and it was a very confusing 24 hours of my life. I went from feeling like the most hated kid on mgoblog to it being a surprise birthday party that I didn't see coming because my birthday was still two months away. Anyway, I agree with you. Hopefully RR just wins and we don't have to worry about it, but if he doesn't and we get JH, I don't think you are going to see the same type of transition as we saw from Carr to RR. If RR doesn't succeed I think JH is the logical choice because he has had some success, he coaches at a school that has similar standards as Michigan, and he's proven he can recruit a bit to Stanford (so he would have to be able to recruit for Michigan you would think), he's from Michigan and knows how to recruit the Midwest and hopefully now Cali, and he understands the Big Ten. Personally, I think he would take the job, but really that's not even a sure thing. Even less of a sure thing than RR not succeeding but probably not less of a sure thing than Les. Either way I think both RR and JH are great coaches, and both can win with the players we have (I hope and in case that hope doesn't come true on the first bit, then I really hope again).
So in summary, yes please to #1. People are foolish if they actually think #2 is true, but he is the logical next step if this doesn't work out. And IME, both can win with the players we have on our roster, so #3 would be true, but I think #1 is going to happen so #2 and #3 aren't relevant
has a collective change of mind, then stampedes off in another direction.
August 4th, 2010 at 12:22 AM ^
I agree that defensive recruits would be no different between RR and Harbaugh. But on offense, there are more differences. We would need way more TE's and probably none of the slot ninjas we have. Running backs like Vincent Smith would get used far less often, and Denard (and maybe Tate) would never be the QB. A guy like Andrew Maxwell would have come here instead.
Not that this is a wholesale change, but just like switching to a spread, switching back would see it's biggest growing pains at the QB position.
August 4th, 2010 at 12:31 AM ^
But I don't think changing to Harbaugh's system would be nearly as drastic as Carr to RR. Harbaugh, I believe, will adapt more than Carr did and more than RR did. This isn't a debate about if RR should have tweeked his offense the first year to fit his players more, I'm just saying I think Harbaugh has a more adaptive scheme within the prostyle format. I think our running backs would be fine. You can run the same exact run plays he runs currently, RBs can run like Barry Sanders or Mike Alstott, running style vary and a lot of running style can find success. Running is a very instinctual thing, and I think any of our running backs that could find success under RR could under Harbaugh. As for QB, I think Denard may be the only one that's moved, but even then Michigan wasn't that far from from option football when Harbaugh played here, so even he may get a shot if he is improved as we all hope. Basically, I just don't think it's as big of a change if it does happen.
August 4th, 2010 at 12:58 AM ^
they pronounce Jimmy Hairball the presumptive successor whenever RR leaves. David Brandon respected Bo tremendously; he's made that clear over and over. Jim Harbaugh directly impugned the academic integrity of the program that Bo led in statements he made shortly after he was hired at Stanford. There would seem to be a dramatic difference in viewpoint there. Why do the Harbaugh supporters think there is no other viable candidate in the country, especially when Harbaugh said specifically after his hiring at Stanford that it was his dream job, that it was the place he always wanted to be? What in David Brandon's tenure as AD gives the Harbaugh supporters reason to think that Brandon will ignore those comments?
David Brandon happens to be friends with both Jim and his father, Jack. With Lloyd out of the way, there's nothing stopping Brandon from hiring Harbaugh if Rich Rod fails this season.
Jamie Morris was able to forgive Harbaugh for what he said. Maybe it's time for you to get over it, too. Unless you're a former player, his comments had nothing to do with you, anyway.
Harbaugh not only took a cheap shot at the academic integrity of my alma mater but he waited until the person responsible for his free education while attending Michigan died before he took that cheap shot. I think as a U of M graduate I am allowed to dislike him for this.
Also, I slept with your mom, but that has nothing to do with you anyway, so you can't get upset. And even if you do get upset, your dad has forgiven me, so you should have no problem doing so.
true everywhere and instead of saying that (which is fine), he choose the cheap shot (calling out Michigan and his former coach specifically, soon after that coach died).
Harbaugh may in fact be a great coach, but he has a habit of being a jackass, and I'm not sure how welll that will play with the Michigan fans (e.g. lying about Cal's grad rate and then refusing to admit he lied, when showed the actual facts).
Bo and Lloyd were jackasses, too. People love thier own jackasses and hate everyone else's. His comments only stung for more than a minute because it was so soon after Bo died. I am not rooting for a coaching change, but if one happens, I would be for Jimmy over Les MIles who has been ecposed to the slime in the SEC.
He pointed out how Michigan steered him towards a less demanding curriculum when, if not for his athletic ability, Harbaugh would never have sniffed a U of M education. For Jimmy, football was his major. His education was his minor. It is unlikely that he could honestly handle football and a more demanding course load. The counselors and advisors at Michigan protected him and guided him to a successful college experience, which lead to lucrative opportunities. Essentially, everything he said was true. However, does that really excuse him for denying reality?
If he were to become Michigan's HC, I'd of course support him, but I will forever think he is an asshole for throwing U of M under the bus as a preemptive excuse for his foreseeable recruiting challenges at Stanford
Harbaugh offers like 300 kids a year, well maybe not that many but its a lot, surprising only 4 of UM's commits have one
But those kids (the 300ish) that Harbaugh offers are, of course, kids that can play in his "system". I guess the point is that (other than the QB), it wouldn't be much of an issue to switch to Harbaugh (in terms of personnel, not that I really care to see it happen) because he has recruited so many of our current players. Thus the it'd-be-a-nightmare-to-have-any-coach-other-than-RR-because-we'd-need-all-new-players theme remains incorrect.
Wait...even our QB was recruited by Harbaugh...
I'll definitely be interested to see how it goes for Stanford this year. Personally I think Harbaugh is like the Dantonio of the Pac-10. He's taken a historically pretty average program and produced two mediocre seasons and one good one (good as in 8-5). Add in two big wins (at least one of which was arguably more about the other team blowing it) and a "RAARRRR ALL CAPS BLUE COLLAR FOOTBALL" act, and the media goes wild for the guy.
He's a decent coach, no doubt, but I'm far from convinced that he's a great one. He's gotten some very high expectations to live up to this year and I'll be surprised if he's as hot a name at the end of the year as he is now.
Without a 250 lb/4.3 speed heisman candidate at RB to rush the rock 30 times a game, I think he will have some trouble.
Stanford won a single game the year before he was hired. He took a mediocre San Diego team and went 11-1 two years in a row. Rich Gannon won an MVP award while Harbaugh was his QB coach. I don't know dude, that doesn't say mediocre coach to me.
what "San Diego" team did Harbaugh take 11-1 two seasons in a row?
The University of San Diego.
August 4th, 2010 at 10:57 AM ^
The mediocre San Diego team he took over was 8-2 the year before he was hired, and 9-2 the two years after he left. I'm not going to pretend I know a lot about Pioneer League football, but just at a glance USD looks to me like one of the better teams in the conference both before and after Harbaugh's arrival.
Yes, we all realize Stanford was 1-11 the year before Harbaugh was hired. They were also 4-8 the year after, and 5-7 the year after that. This is an improvement, obviously, but it's hardly a stunning turnaround.
I admitted he's a decent coach. I'm still very skeptical that he's an elite coach but the good news is we only have another month to wait before we can see how they do this year.
...not listen to sports talk radio. It's their job to be controversial and get people to call the show.
So....repeat after me:
MICHIGAN WILL REBOUND THIS YEAR. RODRIGUEZ WILL SOLIDIFY HIS POSITION AS HEAD COACH IN 2010. MICHIGAN WILL UPSET OSU IN NOVEMBER AND MAKE BOTH TP AND JUSTIN BOREN CRY LIKE THE LITTLE BEOTHCES THAT THEY ARE!
I don't understand the sentiment that JH is the only canidate. It's surprising that people don't talk about Les Miles anymore. If I had the choice I would take JH though. He's taken a program from the shithole to relevant. Miles took Sabans recruits and won.(IMO) Miles is too aggressive. RR is our most sure thing. Let's just win with him. GO BLUE!
He is my favorite Michigan QB and I guess he would be my next choice if RR has another bad season!