Harbaugh vs the Spread Offense (Read Option)
So, I hope this isn't a waste of a thread topic, but in light of the travesty against OSU and the mailbag today which prompted me to look up Harbaugh at Stanford vs Oregon mainly, should we be worried long term against spread option teams with a running QB? Before anyone jumps down my throat, I know this isn't just on Harbaugh but the staff as a whole. With that said, pro style coaches have a history of poo pooing the spread and then not being able to stop it, which is maddening since you can find a library's worth of info on spread option football just by using Google.
So, will closing the talent gap, specifically the d-line, ultimately be more important than scheme?
Who should we worry/not worry about as a defensive coordinator against the spread option?
I know that great spread teams are hard to stop by anyone, but I fear an approach of "doing what we do" as opposed to adapting to your opponent, especially when the opponent is your biggest rival. I'm hoping that last game is looked back on as the blemish of the Harbaugh era. Urban ran his basic offense with little to no frills right down our throat and I hope that's the last time it happens, but I fear otherwise. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off).
December 7th, 2015 at 10:28 PM ^
MSU didn't seem to have much trouble stopping it. I don't think it's an issue with our offense/coach being pro style. I think it will be a significant point of emphasis in the offseason for the coaches and for harbaugh's next DC hire.
December 7th, 2015 at 10:32 PM ^
Right, it's not pro style coaches altogether. More concerned with Harbaugh and this team specifically.
December 7th, 2015 at 10:47 PM ^
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December 7th, 2015 at 10:59 PM ^
December 7th, 2015 at 11:13 PM ^
December 8th, 2015 at 1:46 AM ^
December 8th, 2015 at 12:43 AM ^
The rain explains a lot. it never rains in Big Ten country in late November.
December 8th, 2015 at 9:20 AM ^
used Google to find a way to stop the spread.
December 8th, 2015 at 5:57 PM ^
Well, Google is not much help, I searched for "spread" and this is what I got
December 8th, 2015 at 6:04 AM ^
But they stopped it 2 years ago.
December 8th, 2015 at 9:48 AM ^
OSU ran the same thing the two years against MSU and people were complaining about. Both games they basically ignored their beast of a running back. Hyde two years ago and Elliott this year. After the game two years ago people were freaking out wondering why they didn't keep giving Hyde the ball despite him getting massiave amounts of yards when it had the ball.
It seems like when a team like MSU goes all out to shut down the qb run Urban tends to crap himself and wonder why his qb is not getting free for bigger chunks. He replies by continuing to run his qb over and over until the game clock ends.
December 8th, 2015 at 9:11 AM ^
Last year MSU's back 4 weren't all that good. Against Oregon, OSU & Baylor watch how early before the snap the safeties would bail from their normal 8-9 yard depth. It was an admission they couldn't play their base D in those games.
BTW, in recent years Baylor has demolished teams that play a one-high deep safety. Worse than usual for them.
December 7th, 2015 at 11:31 PM ^
December 8th, 2015 at 12:10 AM ^
Poor scheme leaves players out of position to make plays other than after the damage is done. The scheme we saw against OSU repeatedly left an unutilized free safety far from the play without any compensating contraint on OSU's offense (unless you want to argue it successfully prevented the deep pass but I doubt you do).
December 8th, 2015 at 8:40 AM ^
December 8th, 2015 at 10:23 AM ^
December 7th, 2015 at 10:28 PM ^
Depends who he hires as DC. I'm not crazy about the names I've been reading on rivals.
December 7th, 2015 at 10:32 PM ^
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December 7th, 2015 at 10:40 PM ^
December 7th, 2015 at 10:43 PM ^
December 7th, 2015 at 11:04 PM ^
If fans want a DC with experience stopping the spread, Jim Leavitt is the guy. He did pretty well against Rich Rod's high powered spread teams.
December 7th, 2015 at 11:11 PM ^
By that measure half the Big 10 DCs of 2008-2010 should be well quaified to be Michigan's DC....
December 7th, 2015 at 11:22 PM ^
It's much easier to stop a Rich Rod team with Steven Threet, Tate Forcier and first year starter Denard Robinson. Leavitt actually beat him when he had Pat White and Steve Slaton. The team that beat Oklahoma (48-28) in the Fiesta Bowl.
December 7th, 2015 at 10:36 PM ^
December 7th, 2015 at 10:31 PM ^
Are you close to a ledge? If so, I'll gladly come push you off said ledge.
December 7th, 2015 at 10:33 PM ^
If we get blown out again next year I will be.
December 7th, 2015 at 10:35 PM ^
December 8th, 2015 at 8:26 AM ^
Ty Butterfield is mgoblog's resident Debbie Downer.
December 7th, 2015 at 10:32 PM ^
You need a decent defense to stop any offense... Every team in this playoff has had their Defense talked about for a portion of this season...
December 7th, 2015 at 10:35 PM ^
I like the 3-4 as well against option teams. It can make the reads a bit more difficult, but it can also make stopping power and straight zone plays more challenging if the o-line gets to the second level.
December 7th, 2015 at 10:37 PM ^
And actually Stanford's offense and ball control was more effective than the defense. Harbaugh went 1-3 against them and gave up 42 in the win.
December 7th, 2015 at 10:41 PM ^
December 7th, 2015 at 11:58 PM ^
Stanford was Oregon's kryptonite? What box scores are you looking at?
December 8th, 2015 at 9:16 AM ^
Probably the 2012 (17-14 Stanford win) and 2013 (26-20 Stanford) games.
December 7th, 2015 at 10:37 PM ^
We really lack speed on defense to stop it. I know it sounds generic, but it just is what it is. Hoke did not recruit speed whatsoever. We essentially saw in the OSU game what we saw for the Carr years against the Syracuse, Oregon, Texas, OSU with Smith and Pryor, and App State.
December 7th, 2015 at 10:42 PM ^
I totally disagree. Our scheme (which has been talked about here ad nauseum) was dependent on our depleted line dominating and the adjustment was to put more responsibility on our LBs. We have plenty of speed in our secondary, but unless you're playing less man free (which is what Michigan loves) and more zone that speed isn't as big of a factor. Our LB issues have less to do with speed and more to do with indecisiveness and in that game, poor tackling. Michigan also rarely ran a scrape or a run blitz and often played with fewer in the box than there were blockers.
December 7th, 2015 at 11:38 PM ^
December 8th, 2015 at 12:58 AM ^
It is far more effective to have quickness and athleticism to maneuver just enough to shun them blocks. It might seem to you guys like small distances down there and that speed doesn't count much. The truth is that in the trenches when you have strong and quick footed backers busting shick up, it's like night and day. Don't lie to these guys reading this stuff. Are there any Penn State fans on here that can back me up? Geezus k-ryst. Or how about you ask Larry. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kea6kM3kbSY
December 7th, 2015 at 10:41 PM ^
To Indiana game, just had better players on D than Indiana did. Not ready for prime timers Strobel and Godin were clearly not ready, Hurst and Henry couldn't hold their exceeded workload. Add Glasgow and Mone -or just one of them- it makes a dfifference. Harbaugh was 1-3 vs lost one game by 7 IME this was Oregon's best stretch ever.
December 7th, 2015 at 10:42 PM ^
December 7th, 2015 at 10:43 PM ^
December 7th, 2015 at 10:52 PM ^
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December 7th, 2015 at 11:22 PM ^
Go back and look at the 2010 title game sometime.
What defeats a spread is when the guy they're optioning off of--and they had to option off Fairley because they couldn't block him--is so fast he can take away both options simultaneously.
Recruit that guy and the problem is solved. (And, yes, I know he's easier said than found.)
December 7th, 2015 at 11:33 PM ^
Hopefully Gary can be that guy.
Fairley - 6'4'' 282 lbs
Gary - 6'4'' 286 lbs
December 8th, 2015 at 12:02 AM ^
Gary and Fairley are very similar. And it's looking really good for M on that front.
December 7th, 2015 at 11:35 PM ^
To stop a really good run-spread, the D must have a disruptive d-line. They have to get into the backfield. A stalemate at the line of scrimmage will not get it done.
Thereafter, speed (either pure speed and/or super quick read and react) from other defenders seems to be important also.