Except it will be VERY difficult to get to 7-5. Just FYI.
Harbaugh - For Serial?
is if the entire defense takes their Underdog super-energy pill before the Illinois game.
with them going 7-5 this year. I still believe that they have an upset or two left in the tank. Have some faith O Michigan brethren.
By saying they still have an upset or two left in the tank... that would imply that they actually have given us an upset win in recent history... I mean unless 08 Wisconson or 08 Minnesota count still....
Who have we really upset? Notre Dame sucks, UConn is a mid tier Big East team, Indiana turns out to be Indiana. We've only upset 1 team in the past 3 years.
And several hundred thousand others!
hahaha, that reply made me laugh... thanks
why would you suspect we will automatically go 7-5 this illinois team we play next week in more poised and dangerous than the broken excuse for a penn state team we just played
I don't believe upsets are possible with this team. The defense is just too bad and we have seen that week to week improvement doesn't happen. Year to year hasn't even happened.
My faith in 7-5 was trampled by a former walk-on this past weekend.
would forgive Harbaugh and would try to lure him into coming to coach for Michigan. With that being said, I don't see how Harbaugh would leave Stanford where he is in a good situation. He would see that Michigan situation is not good, not because of the defense, but the way the people from the administration aren't serving for the best interest of the University.
Stanford isn't a destination school. Recruiting there is always difficult given the academic restrictions. The bigger question IMO is how much he might want an NFL job.
but Stanford is a better situation right now than Michigan. I don't think Harbaugh would want to come to Michigan even though he loves Michigan. It's not a given, like most Michigan fans think it is, that Harbaugh will come to Michigan.
I definitely agree that it's not a given. The way these things go, you basically have to expect that your first option will say no.
If college football is in his blood, Michigan would be the long term career answer for him for reasons already articulated.
I'm a bit on the fence about a coaching change, but at this point, I guess I wouldn't mind seeing Harbaugh at the helm. I've never been completely comfortable with RR, although I think he's a generally good guy.
Also, from a recruiting perspective, Harbaugh has caché now, whereas RR has a bit of unwanted baggage.
Interesting dilemma for Brandon.
Current Verbal Commits with Rival's star rankings. Much better than Rich Rod's destination school....some more facts for the Rich Rod apologists to chew on. Appears that "recruiting will suffer" meme with a coaching change is bunk. Though you are right about the NFL...the Niners will come calling later this year....
Stanford: 8- 4 stars, 13- 3 stars, 1 -2 star
Michigan: 3 -4 stars, 8 -3 stars
Go back to the Rivals premium board. This bullshit you posted means nothing. Will Campbell.
You forgot: "Pat White was a two star."
Read the thread idiot...it was in response to Stanford not being a destination school and a difficult place to recruit for, while Michigan has these advantages....for elementary dolts like yourself that just want to flame instead of having civil debate. This was simple snap shot to demonstrate my point....Harbs can recruit anywhere and if he's the next head coach in A2, the recruiting will not suffer. To your flamed point, its what you DO with your recruits that matter and it sure appears Harbaugh and his selected coaching staff are doing more with his recruits than our beloved Coach Rod is doing.
Either way, nothing will be decided until the end of the season and entire body of work is reviewed by Brandon. I sure hope they can get that 6th win, as the seniors on this team deserve some type of post season reward for their commitment and dedication, and the extra practice time is beneficial for building long term success.
rabble rabble THREE STAR. rabble rabble TWO STAR rabble rabble UNACCEPTABLE.
That would be kind of short sighted to stick with Stanford just because currently they are better than Michigan.
As I've said three other times here WHY WOULD JH WANT TO LEAVE A PROGRAM WHERE HE IS SEEN AS GOD TO TAKE OVER THIS WOEFUL MESS ? By the way it does not rain May through October out here and it never snows except in the mountains. Stanford is a hugely prestigious University, much better than us, and far wealthier.Do you think being a Wolverine is enough to drop everything and bail ? They made me too smart at the U to think about moving back home and I presume he feels the same. Two years ago it was Miles who was going to be the savior.
Why? Because he took over a woeful mess in Stanford, and that woeful mess is actually a contender. Also, I'm pretty sure they beat USC more than any other team in the past 5 years.
Seen as God? What the fuck are you talking about?
Why would he want to leave a program where he is seen as God? Because Rich Rod did the exact same thing.
Please don't reference your Michigan degree a) because in most cases you only sound like a douche bag and b) especially when using such poor logic.
He was an enormous douche for saying that, but if it gets to the point where we are looking for a coach, who else is out there? Harbaugh has taken Stanford and turned them into a top 10-caliber team. Comments or not, he's a good football coach and seems like an excellent fit for the position. Water under the bridge in my view.
I would rather have Harbaugh than go 7-5 every year. Any fan who wouldn't is insane.
That being said, we aren't going to go 7-5 every year with Rodriguez (I don't think it will ever happen again after this season) and Harbaugh doesn't have half the resume of the guy currently residing in Ann Arbor.
currently residing in ann arbor has fewer big ten wins than tim fuckin brewster.
i dont care what he did at wvu. he's not there anymore.
I'm sorry you don't want to give the guy the chance to, you know, let the players he recruits get to their junior year. I'm sorry you think a coach who built a team that won as many major bowl games in 7 seasons at a school that had never won a single major bowl game in its entire century plus history is far inferior to a coach who won just as many major bowl games in 13 seasons at Michigan. I'm sorry you have no sense of context for what is happening to our team this season and what will happen down the road.
In short, I'm sorry you are so wrong.
After this post, I truly believe you have the power to convince these kids to change their drink selection: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjgLb0HJ3VE
(If I had the ability to give + points, I would)
Thank you for that perspective. Didn't know the context of how well RR had done at WVa relative to that school's history.
As for RR's time at M, I hope we can win a couple more before it's said and done so RR gets another year. I'll stick with Molk's observation that the team is very close but not yet showing it. I know the players won't give up on this and I can't wait til Saturday to see what the team can do against Illinois.
I'm all in.
A third year of fail that you still think winning 2 bowl games, only one of which he even actually coached in (and the fact that he didn't coach in the other one was probably the motivation for the team to win that game) against two overrated BCS teams (maybe the worst SEC champ of the last decade who he just edged and the team that has lost just about every BCS bowl game they've played in for a half a decade or more) is comparable to losing to National Championship caliber USC and Texas teams (barely in one case...and putting a better showing than just about any team that played the Champ in another) and is more impressive than winning conference championships at an almost .500 percent rate in a much tougher conference than the crappy Big East, and oh yeah, won a National Championship, when the best season Rich put up was only equivalent to 2006, and that after the fact that he hasn't shown anything at Michigan, you still think that's a far superior resume.
But you'd be wrong.
Georgia was one of the worst SEC Champs in 2005?? Don't tell me you really think that's truth that you are typing. They beat 4 out of 6 ranked opponents that year including a dominating victory over number 3 LSU in the SEC Title game. They were a very, very good football team. The 2007 West Virginia team destroyed Oklahoma by the way. They didn't beat them, they manhandled them much worse than Oklahoma has ever been throttled in recent bowl game history. West Virginia was national championship caliber that year and would have been playing for the national championship if it wasn't for an injury to Pat White late in the season. So saying those two WINS aren't comparable to the two LOSSES at the hands of Texas and USC makes you look extremely foolish.
Rich Rodriguez has an extremely impressive resume that goes even beyond his impressive head coaching stint with West Virginia. Not that he needs any other evidence other than taking West Virginia football to National Championship level performance which is tough enough as it is, he also was wildly successful as a coordinator everywhere he has coached. Jim Harbaugh's coaching resume is a joke compared to RR's coaching resume. Maybe when Harbaugh actually wins something we can crown him as the coach that will save Michigan football. Until then I think we should at least let Rodriguez coach a senior class of his own players first!
Oh by the way how much did West Virginia improve after Rich Rod left the university with all of the talent he acquired including Pat White and Noel Devine? Oh they regressed? Wonder why??
How did he do against "can't win a bowl game" Oklahoma? An Oklahoma team that had lost 5 times on the season (not won the Big 12 championship)? Oh, that's right, he lost to them. In the Sun Bowl.
Jim Harbaugh has never won a bowl game as a head coach. He's done a nice job at Stanford, but acting like he's a sure thing and that a guy with a long track record of actual success at the highest levels of D-1 football should be dumped to get him is completely insane.
He's never won a bowl game at Stanford, at Michigan, or any place else as a head coach. I think he's a good coach. There is just no comparison between what he's accomplished so far as a college head coach and what Rodriguez has.
Rodriguez didn't inherit a good team. We just had a good team the year before he got here. The situations both guys inherited are pretty equivalent (and if folks can't see that by now they haven't been paying attention). The trajectories are also basically the same. I think the ceiling is much higher for Michigan with Rodriguez. Feel free to disagree, but how about we wait until next year and actually find out?
Why did that U-M team go 9-4? How many of the NFL players on that team did Rodriguez get to coach? He didn't "inherit" a 9-4 team. He inherited Threet/Sheridan, 7 offensive linemen, no experienced skill position talent, a roster with no safeties, and Brandon Graham. Would you rather have that or Toby Gerhart to build a team around? Not exactly a no brainer.
Of course, actually having a grasp on the facts of the situation wouldn't be as much fun for you as looking at the record and screaming UNACCEPTABLE!
Tim Floyd inherited an NBA championship team with the Chicago Bulls. He must really suck to have not made the playoffs after inheriting that championship team.
Are you being intentionally obtuse or are you really this dumb?
And yes, I think Rodriguez did cause Boren to leave (the others were gone no matter what he did and if you don't know that by now I can't help you). If he had given his little brother a scholarship I think he would have stayed. I also don't think that is the way he should run his program so I was fine with the decision.
Harbaugh's. You said in 13 years...you were comparing him to Lloyd. If you want to compare bowl wins to Harbaugh, go for it.
I was going two places at once when Los Barcos jumped in with his dumbassery. Merely pointing out that Rodriguez has a pretty comparable history of top level success to the guy he keeps pining for.
Because you don't have your facts straight.
Yes, Georgia, a two loss team that lost to Florida anyway, and only got to go to the Championship game because Florida managed to do worse (AND lost to Auburn, to end up as a 3 loss team) is the weakest champ in recent memory when you have -
2003 - LSU National Champ
2004 - Auburn undefeated
2005 - Georgia
2006 - Florida National Champ
2007 - LSU National Champ
2008 - Florida National Champ
2009 - Alabama National Champ
Yeah, I'd say they were far and away the weakest one in memory. So, I was right there.
And it's nice that they destroyed Oklahoma by 20. Who was coaching that team anyway? Oh, right, it wasn't Rich. He put the team together, certainly....but you think the fact that their coach left them had a "we'll show them" influence on how they played the game? To show you don't know your history ("they manhandled them much worse than Oklahoma has ever been throttled in recent bowl game history") USC would like a word with you, since they beat Oklahoma by 36 just 3 years before. So, no, it wasn't the worst. Not even close. And the point is that this is a team that's ranked high, often higher than their opponent, and then lays an egg in the bowl game.
|2009||Dec. 31, 2009||Sun Bowl||Oklahoma||31||Stanford||27|
|2008||Jan. 8, 2009||Orange (NC)||Oklahoma||14||Florida||24|
|2007||Jan. 2, 2008||Fiesta||Oklahoma||28||West Virgina||48|
|2006||Jan. 1, 2007||Fiesta||Oklahoma||42||Boise State||43|
|2005||Dec. 29, 2005||Holiday Bowl||Oklahoma||17||Oregon||14|
|2004||Jan. 4, 2005||Orange (NC)||Southern Cal||55||OKLAHOMA||19|
|2003||Jan. 4, 2004||Sugar (NC)||Louisiana St||21||OKLAHOMA||14|
Not so hot a bowl record recently.
So yes, I think that beating the worst SEC champ of the last 7 years (at least) and a team that is an annual choker in the bowl games (even though he didn't coach the team in it...who knows, if he had, they might have lost. Less motivation) isn't notably more impressive than losing to a National Champion USC team (while holding them to their lowest point total since week 1), barely to a Texas team that had the best offensive player I've ever seen and would win the National Championship the next year with a last second FG, and an admitted not so good loss to a team that should have been playing for the National Championship in USC, but for 2 strange upset losses, whereas our motivation was shot because the team was down after getting screwed out of a National Championship rematch. I contend, switch the opponents, and West Virginia is 0-3, and Michigan is at least 1-1 (we do just fine against SEC teams...Oklahoma, who knows? I like our chances against them in their choking era).
I never really compared Rich to Harbaugh. Might be good to not call people foolish till you can improve your reading comprehension. It's nice that Rich ALMOST won a National Championship. But we ALMOST won one in 2006...in 1999...and oh, yeah, we DID win one with the coach who the OP was comparing Rich's record with. So yes, I'll strangely go with has National Championship ring over guy who almost won one coming out of the Big East. Call me crazy. But before doing that I'll wait till Rich "actually wins something we can crown him" for...at Michigan. Because a couple of Big East titles doesn't excite me that much.
And I don't even really want to throw this out, because it's an unnecessary slam on Rich...but your logic is so convoluted, I just have to-
Oh, by the way, how much did Michigan get worse after Rich Rod came to the University? Oh, we regressed...? (I mean, I wonder if the West Virginia blog is writing a Decimated Offense Diary...)
You finally changed your sig. Didn't think it'd be any easier to auto-neg you, but there it is. Thanks, los barcos!
You're a miserable person.
I wish his signature wasn't the truth too.
Are you Tom Hagen? You're such a tool.
Take that! How dare you bring actual numbers to a conversation to prove your point that Rich Rodriguez deserves to be fired. I hate you so much...
Conan sucks too....so there
Ok so lets look at Harbaugh record since he's still there:
He was given enough time to build his program and recruit his guys. Why won't you do the same for RR? I'm tired of hearing "he'll come In and win right away". No he won't!
He was given enough time to build his program and recruit his guys. Why won't you do the same for RR?
Are you comparing Stanford pre-Harbaugh to Michigan pre-RR? Please tell me you aren't...... There's about 3-4 posts in this thread that detail what Stanford was before he got there.
Well, one thing Stanford doesn't have is half the recruits for a given year flunk out.. That probably didn't help. Of course they weren't good at football either, so whatever.
If RR can go 8-5 this year, as Harbaugh did in his third season, he'll most likely be retained.
Really? Does the Brewster comparison really make any sense at all on any level beyond a simplistic comparison of numbers?
I don't understand this argument. Brewster and RR are contemporaries. It's not like Brewster coached 50 years ago. They've faced essentially the same competition. If RR can't match Brewster's record, at a school which has far more institutional advantages, that's incredibly worrisome.
Harbaugh doesn't have half the resume of the guy currently residing in Ann Arbor.
Really? In 18 season RR has averaged about 6.5 wins per season. In 7 season Harbaugh has averaged a little over 7 wins per season.
Let's look at "big" wins. RR had 1 signiture win while he was coach and 1 coached by someone else using his players (of course that was after he failed miserably against a bad Pitt team with a shot at the MNC on the like). In the 2006 Sugar Bowl he beat #8 Georgia and in the 2008 Fiesta Bowl Bill Stewert with RR players beat #3 Oklahoma. Harbaugh led his team to a win over #7 Oregon and a 34 point destruction of #11 USC in 2009. He also led Stanford to what might be the single greatest upset, statistically, in history by beating #2 USC in 2007. Not to mention he's beaten the Pac-10's big boy 3 out of 4 years he's been at Stanford. At Michigan, RR has 2 wins over teams that finished with (or in the case of this year, currently have) a winning record. Who has had better success against teams that are superior in talent?
RR took over a WVU program that was decent prior ot his arrival. WVU finished 7-5, 4-7, 8-4, 7-5, 8-4 in the 5 years prior to his arrival. Harbaugh took over a horrendous Stanford program that finished 1-11, 5-6, 4-7, 4-7, 2-9 prior to his arrival. I'll let you figure out which program is tougher to recruit to based on academic standards.
So, at worst, they have comparable resumes and you could argue Harbaugh has been more impressive based on where he is coaching.
Thank you for bringing out the facts to complete an argument unlike some yahoos who just curse and claim we need to wait another year.
4 conference championships in 7 years, 3 Top 10 finishes, and 2 BCS bowl appearances (both wins, however he left before the second bid) hold any water with you then?
I think his track record deserves another year.
We need to see him post success here at Michigan. He doesn't have Jeff Casteel as his right-hand man anymore.
Don't disagree in the least, particularly in regards to Casteel. Let's not forget, CasteeI wasn't exactly Jeff Casteelbefore he joined Rich either. Im simply stating that I think his track record affords him another year.
If he doesn't win some of the next four games, no, it doesn't. We're not in the Big East, it's not 2007, and the zone read is no longer an exotic new offensive wrinkle. He needs to show some success at this school to give the fans hope. The early struggles of another offensive-minded coach from the Big East (Brian Kelly) aren't helping his cause any.
Casteel has continued to thrive without RR. The reverse is not true. The knock on RR - that he's more a glorified OC than a good all-around HC - has not been refuted to date.
He had one great year at a BCS level college. Butch Jones probably did better at CMU than BK and nothing has changed at GVSU since he left.
Our O has improved significantly since RR has been here and it helps that he has a lot of players in there second and third year in the program. Lets look at the D without Mike Martin per most of Iowa and PSU. Dline- Banks( fifth year first season starting not good), Sagesse (fifth year never been a starter), RVB (RS Jr. acceptable, but IMO Roh would be better here with RVB in Banks place). LB- Demens (RS soph these were his first two starts), Mouton (no excuse- just doesn't get it most of the time), Roh (true soph better suited to DE). Secondary- Rogers (fifth year probably shouldn't be on the field), Cam (RS frosh played WR last year) Floyd (RS soph- doesn't have a full year in as a starter), Vinopal (true frosh) Kovacs ( walk on great head & heart lacks speed), everyone else is a true frosh or walk on. The D wasn't expected to be good before Woolfolk went down and Turner and Emilien left. Throw in BooBoo getting the boot and we are where we are defensively. Where are the upperclassman?
I understand it's the coach's responsibility, yet at the same time there were needs on the offensive side of the ball his first full recruiting year because of the switch in offensive philosophies. He recruited heavy to the defensive side last year and I believe this class will also end up with more players on the D side of the ball. Hopefully, one or two of them can be playmakers because that is what is lacking.
"Where are the upperclassmen?" is not necessarily an argument in RR's favor. He's had a terrible attrition rate every year. Should we expect that rate to suddenly stop all of a sudden?
And the point of the Kelly comparison is this: the fact that two Big East coaches have moved up the food chain and experienced disastrous results has to cast doubt on how relevant Big East records really are. Maybe we should stop looking at the BE as a BCS conference and starting looking at it as not much more than a MAC-caliber league. If the only plausible argument for keeping RR here is that he won at a Big East school, he won't be retained. We need to see him win at Michigan, period.
4 conference championships in 7 years, 3 Top 10 finishes, and 2 BCS bowl appearances (both wins, however he left before the second bid) hold any water with you then?"
It doesn't hold any water with me because he was in the BIG LEAST. Does anyone remember when the conference had to play all their games on Wednesday and Thursdays to get any national attention? And Louisville and Rutgers actually somehow bloated to the #1 and #2 spots? That conference is nothing but 7 completely mediocre football programs with no football tradition and 1 school that had Pat White and Steve Slaton for a few years.
Michigan could win 4 conference championships in 7 years if we got to play UConn-esque teams over and over every year... and the Voters always will put the Big East conference champion in the top 10 just to get a tv rating for the bowl games... Give me a break. The Big East is the worst AQ conference in the nation. The MWC is a better conference... albeit the best teams are all leaving for greener pastures... and by greener I mean more money.
Don't confuse the discussion with facts.
RR has gotten a lot of mileage out of that win over Georgia five years ago. Other than that, his big conference showdowns were against Rutgers and Louisville (especially after VA Tech and Miami left the conference). That's just not the same as playing OSU, Penn State and Wisconsin (or Oregon and USC) every year.
When VA Tech, Miami, and BC were still in the Big East, RichRod had more BE titles than VA Tech and BC combined. Don't act like his teams weren't good before they left.
It is true, though, that he became significantly more successful from 2005 on, when those schools left the conference. Prior to then he went 3-8, 9-4, 8-5 and 8-4. After he went 11-1, 11-2 and 10-2.
In any event, the bigger issue I have is that he no longer has Jeff Casteel, and while Casteel has continued to do well in RR's absence, the reverse has not been true.
Your first paragraph isn't really proving much. With a sample size of over two times the person he's being compared to, some regression to the mean is expected, the fact that he's only about .5 games behind Harbaugh with 11 additional trials is actually slightly in RichRod's favor.
Couple that with his bonehead comments and hot head attitude and I think we have a winner!!! (Yes, I'm being sarcastic)
There is no comparison. Harbaugh hasn't won anything. Harbaugh hasn't even won a bowl game let alone a BCS bowl game! Don't even try and compare these two programs. Stanford is a nice story this year and might play in a BCS bowl game but they couldn't even win the Sun Bowl last year so lets not jump the gun on Harbaugh's Stanford run being comparable to RR's West Virginia run.
West Virginia had a team that could have won a national title in 2007 if it wasn't for a late season Pat White injury. Stanford has a long way to go before they reach that level of success. Lets not forget that Rich Rod in a short time did things that had never happend in the history of West Virginia football. He had them ranked higher than ever before in their entire history. So comparing Stanford to West Virginia isn't as easy as pointing to academics. West Virginia's most successful seasons were under Rich Rod. Harbaugh hasn't even won a bowl game let alone had the most successful seasons in his school's history.
Actually, Stanford only needs to go 3-1 the rest of the way to match WVU's 2007 record. That's very possible for them. And they are competing in a far tougher conference than the post-Miami/VT Big East.
West Virginia PLAYED for the National Title after the 1988 season. They didn't beat Notre Dame, but technically that's close to a National Championship than losing before you can play for it. They also went 11-1 in 1993, so that at least matches the best Rich put out. He had some of their most successful seasons, yes. But it wasn't like W. Virginia was a football wasteland for it's entire history, and he's the only one who ever made them any good.
Well, they're not comparable, seeing as Harbaugh has only been there about half as long at this point.
Harbaugh doesn't have half the resume of the guy currently residing in Ann Arbor.
I have some issues with Harbaugh as a person, but his track record is impressive. At USD he went 7-4, 11-1 and 11-1. Then he went to Stanford, inherited a 1-11 team, and has gone 4-8, 5-7, 8-5 and 7-1. He may take them to a BCS bowl. At this point his résumé is not that different from RR's before he arrived here.
As for RR, at Michigan we've learned about his shortcomings on the defensive side of the ball that we did not know about three years ago. Without Jeff Casteel, he's been unable to field a quality defense. Maybe Harbaugh has his own coaching Achilles heel that we don't know about yet. We'll see.
He hasn't been able to let go of Jeff Casteel aparently, because he keeps trying to make coordinators into him.
At this point I'd try anything. Bring Lloyd Carr back for all I care. This RR experiment isnt working and Harbaugh is looking real good right about now.
This is literally the dumbest thing I have ever read. Let him take care of the defense. If we failbomb last year... sure fire thim, but come on!
I cannot stand these sorts of fans.
How many more years do we give him to fix the D?
Next year is it. Look at this offense. He has it down. We just need an average defense. You would forsake this offense at this point?
Not to mention... recruiting apocalypse all over again.
A recruiting apocalypse could happen when you bring back a lame duck coach because you want to give him "one more year." You don't think that will be used against us in recruiting?
Illinois is picked by most to beat us and they had the lamest of lame duck coaches. And they lost their season opener. What turned things around? Their defense. Their offense sucks, but is manageable enough.
And with recruiting, we had to fight all those "Lloyd is gonna retire next year" rumors and still had some decent teams. Negative recruitig happens all the time, regardless of the coaching situation.
I would be okay with us going the Illinois route (assuming that we make a bowl), but RR has to give the DC room to do what he wants. He's got to realize that the way he's been handling defense is going to do him in. The problem is, how does Brandon get this message to him without micromanaging?
IF RR gets canned, what if Harbaugh says no? Who then?
Has already turned it down once.
He's never been offered the job. He wasn't on our radar three years ago, when he had one year of experience at this level.
I spy 3 mid majors in the top ten rankings. I'm sure one of them has to like money.
Zwaag, you sure you didn't get lost on the way to the Alabama blogs? : P
Do you even have 3 years in of watching college football in general? I don't think you do.
Fuck Jim Harbaugh. He coaches Stanford, RR coaches Michigan. Sorry for this post not being very articulate but it is short and to the point.
I'm only concerned with coaches who coach at Michigan.
We had a discussion in the thread Replacement Coaches on Harbaugh and this particular subject. I said it there and I will say it again. My view is if we let Coach Rod go, the last person I want is Harbaugh. I would vote Dan Mullen.
I support RR, but if they naysayers have their way and want to let RR go, then Dan Mullen would be a good choice. Croomes didn't do much with Miss. State, and Mullen has them turning the corner already. There just isn't a high ceiling at MSU.
Well in 4 weeks we will be talking about no coaches who coach at Michigan cause this one will be fired. I can forgive Harbaugh if he picks Michigan over the NFL, either way I think its Harbaughs last year at Stanford.
I think the fact that Harbaugh has other options could play into the decision making process. We have absolutely no idea what DB thinks about the situation. He hasn't come out with a ringing endorsement of RR so it looks like he's at least keeping his options open.
If DB thinks that Harbaugh is a long term better fit at Michigan, he might HAVE to do something this year before he gets away. If Harbaugh takes another job (Cowboys, Panthers...) he'll be off the market for a while.
Of course, it's entirely possible that DB thinks that Harbaugh is a jackass and would never hire him at Michigan. It'll be interesting to see how the next four weeks play out.
Harbaugh brings inspiration for all lifelong michigan wolverine fans because we know he understands what michigan football is all about. He played for Bo and yes he's a hot head but so was Bo. We would not miss a beat in recruiting if harbaugh came here and even if we did he would still be able to get the most out of the players he had. Harbaugh maybe took some shots at our program but what were those exactly? and maybe he was correct on some of them? Maybe humbling ourselves wouldnt hurt too much. The "We are michigan and nobody can talk shit about us" attitude hasn't really been helping. Harbaugh can say whatever he wants about michigan right now and im fine with it, our program really is in the dumps, he's calling a spade a spade. But I think he also would be the best to turn it around. Just my thoughts.
Totally agree w/ this. You need to take 1 step back to go 2 steps forward.
Harbaugh's Stanford team would be middle of the pack in the big 10.
I don't think that's a rational response. Stanford is ranked #10 in the country in the AP.
The link is worth visiting, not for anything Harbaugh said, but as a demonstration of how much Brian's writing has improved.
He strokes a beard he does not have thoughtfully and comes to conclusions that show deep concern for the welfare of student athletes.
A sentence like this would be unlikely to appear on mgoblog these days.
First of all, Harbaugh loves living in California with his family and has said so on numerous occasions.
Second, if anything, Jim Harbaugh wants to coach at the next level. He doesn't really need a stint at the divided and caustic UofM program to make a name for himself anymore. He's already arrived by taking a program driven into the dirt by Willingham, Teevens and Walt Harris and revived it into a better team than those of Jack Christiansen in the early 1970s. The 49ers, the Browns, and many others will want Harbaugh more than Michigan as it is.
Third, Jim Harbaugh has unfinished business at Stanford - which won't be done this year. Next year they'll have his best recruiting class ever and he'll have junior Andrew Luck returning as a starter ready to light it up.
Fourth, Harbaugh made those comments about UM for a reason. He's pissed off. He says a lot of stupid and embarrassing things. His delusions of grandeur and other personality flaws prevent him from ever apologizing for them.
Andrew Luck is a redshirt sophomore and currently Mel Kiper's Number 1 draft pick, so I wouldn't put it in the bank that he'll be back.
is projected to go #1 overall pick and he would be crazy to pass up the money before the lockout and a possible draft slotting value. He can always come back to Stanford and get a degree.
The lockout would be in this upcoming draft, so its wise for him to stay another year, instead of delcaring for the draft and then sitting out a year.
where there is no draft slotting value so money wise, Luck would be wise to cash in the money.
Despite the fact that he's sucked everywhere since, Ty Willingham had no part in running that program into the ground. In fact, he's more like warning sign that Harbaugh isn't guaranteed to pan out:
|1999||Stanford||8–4||7–1||1st||L Rose †|
I feel like I am losing my mind everytime I read someone defending Rich Rod. I understand the Jim Harbaugh talk is premature, but how can anyone really be happy with the direction this program is going? I'm not talking about this season, I'm talking about the progress of the team since Rich Rod came over. The less Lloyd Carr people on this team, the worse the defense gets. The recruiting has hit the fan, the press conferences are embarassing. John L Smith had more wins in his first year in the big ten than Rich Rod has now, when will people put the pieces together and realize this just isn't the right fit. To end this on a high note and to prevent from getting neg banged, Mike Hart looks good tonight doesn he?
Have you ever even watched our offense this year? we have been racking up yards and I know yards don't equal points but you have to give this offense another year to come together as a group. Think about it this is really only the second year RR's offense has been implemented and run by people who can actually play in it. I definitely don't want to throw all that away especially not for Harbaugh who probably wouldn't leave Stanford anyway.
In my opinion, I feel that a good coach is able to coach up his players, mainly in college because most of the players are raw. Rich Rod has not coached up any one unit of this football team any year. If you truly think he deserves another year I want you to give me a good reason besides the offense, just one good reason that he has proven he deserves another year besides the offense getting alot of yards.
Read: "I want one good reason, other than the best reason."
You are noise. No intelligent fan, even one who wants RR gone yesterday, would say "Rich Rod has not coached up any one unit of this football team any year." No evidence, no point, certainly untrue. You don't have anything to add to the conversation, please GOD return to MLive from whence you came.
What good is 500 yards of offense if your continuously down by 21 pts? Have you not witnessed the last 3 weeks that our offense hasn't produced until the second half after teams have big leads. Its human nature to let up a little bit if you are up by that many pts, and all 3 games after we have staged a "comeback", when the offense was counted on most, they couldn't get a score. I appreciate the people that feel they have to bully the other bloggers because they are frustrutated and want the best for this program and havn't seen any significant progress being made. Maybe I am thinking irrational right now, but I have a hard time thinking this is the right fit, when in year 3, we can't even beat a mediocre Penn State team, and have only won 2 conference games in the Big House. Its depressing, if he finds a way to win the next two games I may be willing to give him another year, but I won't be happy unless major staff changes are made, not just GERG but some of the position coaches at well.
getting a lot of yards. Like over 500 yards a game. Like top 5 in the country.
Oh, you don't like that reason. How about you start with the reasons you will accept and we'll go from there?
I'm pretty split on whether he should go or not but that has to do with the defense....to ignore what he's doing with the offense is willful ignorance and suggests you're just as irrational in your dislike as those who are blindly supportive.
Using your logic, the Lions (leading the NFC in scoring) are good.
if you take away the offense I'll admit RR doesn't look like a great defensive coordinator which isn't surprising I'm fully for getting in a good DC right now
I wrote that last night but by noon it was 3 pages back in the diaries so I doubt most people saw it. It proves that a good coach can overhaul a poor team and make them good in his first season. I was actually shocked how much Pelieni improved the team his first year.
Bo is a defensive minded coach. His defenses at LSU were good. Combine that with Nebraska's talent on D and of course it's going to be a quick turn around.
Also, didn't Nebraska play in the crappy side of the big 12 division?
We have a piss poor D RIGHT NOW that WILL get better with experience regardless of who the DC is. If we manage to bring in a reputable DC then we will be instantly better. Other than that, the direction of the program is not in shambles. If we recruit well on the defensive side then we will be fine.
If we finish at .500 the direction is still UP. It's just taken longer than expected.
I hate that I'm even thinking about this. Common team....win on Saturday, beat Purdue and win a bowl game. 8-5 will buy one more year and I've got to believe a new DC and defensive staff.
Harbaugh at Stanford:
2010: 7-1 (thus far)
Rich Rod at Michigan:
2010: 5-3 (thus far)
Even before that Harbaugh built things up gradually at Univ San Diego:
Rich Rod’s career had a similar trajectory at WVU getting to 11 wins each of his last 3 seasons.
Yeah, great idea. Let's put all of the anti-RR, wrist-slitting, cliff jumpers in charge. These are the kinds of idiots who would fire Jim Harbaugh at the end of the 2008 Stanford football season. Typical short-sidedness. Let's throw out this offense, which is only a few components (namely a RB) short of 2010 Oregon and the most prolific thing ever seen in Maize and Blue since the point a minute teams at the turn of the century, and just blow up the Wolverine football program. We want our pro set offense and wide receivers to wear the No. 1 jersey. Tell Les Miles and Jim Harbaugh that the time is now "to come on home". Send the West Virginia guy to hit the Country Road.
Rodriguez has made a lot of mistakes. Maybe he deserves to be fired. I don't think so. There's 4 games to be played and this team proven that, although it is young, it does not give up. I wish I could say the same for those who want to be in charge.
A) Stanford didnt' have half the talent Michigan had
B) Its tough to recruit players to Stanford cause of the academics
C) That looked like a pretty quick improvement in my mind at San Diego.
You do realize that Stanford is a PAC-10 right? The PAC-10 over the years has had 2 good teams in it. The big 10 is a tougher conference.
Sure there are some head to head match ups to compare to, but week in and week out, the big 10 is a tougher and more physical conference to play in.
Sure Boise State can win against any given team in the big 10, but week in and week out? No way.
I'm not convinced the Pac-10 is that much worse than the Big Ten, but even if it is, Harbaugh's Stanford teams haven't just beaten the equivalent of Indiana. He's 3-1 against USC. If RR had three wins against a Big Ten team of that caliber, his job would be safe.
agree with the guy above. Leaving out the state of the programs before your examples is either intentionally dishonest or you're just blinded by the point you want to get across.
In addition to what has been said above, it should be noted that Harbaugh is winning in the Pac-10, a considerably stronger conference than the Big East.
You're talking about Standford in the Pac-10. In 2007, Stanford upset USC and then went on to go 8-5 in the following year. UM hadnt missed a bowl game in 40 years and was always a contender in the Big Ten. Strikes me that they are such drastically different starting positions that this thread either 1) should be ignored entirely or 2) persuade those in the RR-camp to take a harder look at Harbaugh
Why on earth would any coach want to come here knowing he will feel heat after their first season??? Why would a coach want to come here knowing he only has 3 years to win a national title and fix the god damn economy? (That's for all you so called LOYAL and RATIONAL fans)
A good coach can handle the pressure and deliver a press conference with confidence. Unlike someone who we might aswell call Rich Marinelli.
I've said this before, but that is an easy one.
Because guys that get to the level of big time D1 coaching have enormous egos and most of them would jump at the chance to be the savior of the winningest program in college football history. It's really not that complicated.
Who is being irrational? I don't expect a National Championship, but a .500 record in the Big Ten would be nice......and that is REALLY lowering expectations for Michigan.
Put me in the camp that wants Harbaugh.
UNCWolverine wants Harbaugh, very telling.
I always seem to make the mistake of confusing MGoBlog's forums with a spot where Michigan football fans can have actual intellectual discussions on relevant topics. I forgot that there are "posters" like you on here that don't have the intellectual fortitude to actually add anything to these discussions. From now on I'll just lurk and read Brian's posts while you keep racking up those valuable MGoBlog points.
That thread was one of the greats. The "very telling" meme kicked around for a month or so, Norfolk Wolverine got about 140 points for one of my favorite posts, "Thank you for adding nothing." and UNCWolverine lost over 100 points. Of course it helps that it was one of UNCWolverine's last ten posts and easily retrievable.
And you're still the prick who made a joke about the ND kid's death 6 hours after it happened and then doubled down on your douchebaggery with your follow-up comment. http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/ot-where-irish
Yep, still pissed.
Still not apologizing. You can stay pissed as long as you'd like.
If you die I'll be sure to make jokes about it for weeks to come!
I'd highly suggest wearing a clown costume to my funeral.
I'd much rather go out with people joking about my death then crying over it.
You can be in the next flavor of the month camp though. Maybe the head coach of Baylor camp?
Ok here is my two cents, since I know you all have been waiting for it.
Purdue has become the make or break game for RR. If we lose the entire coaching staff should be canned. If we win, RR should be given another year but the entire defensive coaching staff still has to go.
In the event that we lose against Purdue we should pursue anyone who gives us the best chance of winning. I do not care if he called Michigan the Ohio State of the North, bring him in if it means we win.
If we beat Purdue, Gerg still has to be let go and the decision on a new DC should be made by David Brandon in cooperation with RR. RR should not have the sole voice in the matter. I do not know who we would hire as DC but it has to be someone who can help us immediately and is not afraid to take risks. Someone who will bring the game to the offense instead of sitting back and letting the game come to them. At this point even if they score quickly atleast our offense has more time to answer.
The fate of RR and our football program now rests squarely on the outcome of the Purdue game. If we win we get 15 extra practices plus RR keeps his job. If we lose its transition time in Ann Arbor.
Purdue is a must-win, but I'm not sure that alone would "make" RR. If we beat Purdue and lose the rest, we'll be 6-6 with wins over a weak nonconference slate, Indiana and PU. (We'd also be 0-4 in conference home games.) Winning two of the last four would give him a much stronger case for returning.
It is just an expression. I am just saying that if we beat Purdue and gain bowl eligibility then I believe RR will be kept around, not that he would be "made." If we lose then everyone is gone.
I know what you're saying. What I'm saying is that I'm not sure that would do it. He may need seven wins. I think it's hugely important to win on Saturday. We need to beat a halfway decent opponent.
Well I am still hoping for a 9-3 season. Lets hope all this conjecture proves pointless and the hot seat becomes cool as a cucumber.
My concern, and I was at almost every home game the guy played at Michigan, is that even if he came here, it wouldn't be a terminal job for him. Not saying it would be for RR, but it was for Bump, it was for Bo, it would have been for Moe, it was for Carr. However, I don't really believe it would be for Harbaugh. Maybe, but I don't think it would, there would always be the NFL out there. Maybe that's ok, just saying, it is something to consider. I guess if he got it going, and left in 5 years, at least he got the program back. That might be what the program needs. At the very least, and people probably don't remember this, but Harbaugh would have to make that Bo decision, the one where A&M offered Bo a lot of jack to go, but he stayed true to Blue.
FWIW, I have heard Harbaugh's name as a potential replacement in San Fran for the 49ers if they continue to sail below expectations.
Also, Brandon and Harbaugh are good friends, that will undoubtedly come into play at some point.
Not saying you were implying this but I know others have...but how is it a bad thing that Harbaugh is getting NFL attention? If he somehow wound up at Michigan how is that for a recruiting pitch "hey kids I could have had my pick of pro and college teams but I came here since it offers the best x y and z...." kids would eat that up. Harbaughs popularity is definitely a positive imo
Also first ive heard about db being friends w Harbaugh. Anyone else know about this
Didn't work for Weis. Well, actually, it did in recruiting. He just couldn't coach.
It worked for his contract, but I'm not sure it ever was a factor in recruiting...I don't think he ever had enough legit offers to make it look like he was turning anyone down. The fear of it just made ND do something stupid. But it's not like he could say "I turned down the Vikings to coach YOU, son".
And yet, RR's press conference style is so much like George W. Bush.
What does the op title mean? Serial killer?
Southpark refrence. "ManBearPig is real and a serious threat, I'm super SERIAL"-Al Gore
Don't underestimate what the NCAA could do to Michigan. That is going to be a BIG, BIG factor in how this all plays out at the end of the season.
I'm bias! If RR doesn't pan out here then I'm all on board for hiring Jim. He was QB while I attended UM. He was quite a team leader who had a cocky sense of confidence. Something we may need in this program. I guarantee, if he was hired as our head coach, during the first day he would send a message to old sweater vest about how things were going to change!
Jim would make a great coach here and if he wins us a national championship, I would suspect he would get an NFL coaching gig. That would be fine by me.
If Michigan doesn't hire him at the end of the season. He will be an NFL coach somewhere.
Evidence for this? Not your opinion or your hope, but evidence with a source?
I'm far from a Harbaugh fan and have been a strong supporter of RR, but that's just a silly statement. Jimmy Hairball has proven that he's a damn good head coach at two schools, one of them below FBS level. RR has been a damn good coach at two schools, one of them below FBS level. He's been, so far, a huge disappointment at a third school.
Harbaugh still hasn't even won a bowl game! He hasn't won a conference championship. Rich Rod has been successful everywhere he's been. He made West Virginia into a national championship caliber program. At Michigan Rich Rod has had numerous problems with player loss on the defensive side of the ball. If Harbaugh was coaching this defense he too would be unsuccessful. The failures at Michigan have to do with talent, they are not a result of poor coaching.
Rich Rod has been successful everywhere he's been.
Except Ann Arbor - and that's the problem.
I don’t know if this is just Jamie measuring his words, but he didn’t exactly serve up a wild endorsement of Rodriguez and admitted that Harbaugh would be welcomed back to U-M if he were the Michigan football coach at some point beyond RR’s tenure.
That's from Jamie Morris by the way, the guy who was really pissed off at JH's comments.
I certianly agree. If you walk into a job and accuse managament of misappropriating funds or misleading the public about its employees, guess what? You don't get hired. I am willing to bet that Lloyd, Brandon, and some of the other Bo disciples still remember that.
what about a coach like urban meyer? Also, I think this is all a little premature... :/