Harbaugh Pro vs. College
I recently read a post and more often have been listening to the NFL talking bobble heads saying how Harbaugh would not accept the Michigan Job because it would be a step down in his coaching career to go back to college.
I just don't understand how this is in anyway a step down in coaching.
1. A pay raise in the millions is usually considered a step up in any career.
2. The opportunity to Coach his Alam Mater & Develop some great players.
3. The Great opportunity to develop young men into great men.
4. Not dealing with billionaires that even though you have taken them to several playoffs and the Super Bowl still want to trade or fire you as their coach? I really question this one, but am extremley happy about it because it opens the possibility of U of M fans getting the coach they have wanted for years.
I could come up with more but most confusing is has the NFL forgotten what came first College or Pro? Well we all know the answer to this is College Football came first. It is likely that Harbaugh coaching at Michigan would develop young men into great men that would eventually be drafted into the NFL. If it wasn't for the great coaching of a College Football Coaches developing the players into great players there would not be Pro Football.
They use the issue of dealing with young recruits & discipline as an issue. There are more colleges with a greater # of players on each team, but it seems to me that the NFL with less teams and fewer players on each team have some serious discipline issues of their own.
Can anyone explain to me why taking a Head Coaching Job at your Alma Mater is a step down?
This is NOT A COPY AND PASTE, just a point of view as to why NFL seems contantly say this is a step down. Just my own personal view and on WHY HARBAUGH TO MICHIGAN which I am contantly looking for a news update that it is a done deal.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:56 PM ^
Groh lasted 1 year in the NFL.
Dowhower was never a head coach in the NFL.
Dan Henning was never a head coach in the NFL.
Chan Gailey had a higher winning % in college than the NFL.
So far you have Mike Sherman to support your argument. Keep up the good work.
December 26th, 2014 at 7:29 PM ^
Dowhower headed Indy for a couple years but was only college head for 3 yrs at 2 stops
Grog was in nfl one year bc he left for college and preferred it... Not bc he was fired
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December 26th, 2014 at 7:30 PM ^
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December 26th, 2014 at 1:53 PM ^
Dave Wannstedt and Bill Callahan had a higher winning % in college than te=hey did in the NFL. That would tell me it's easier to win in college.
December 26th, 2014 at 2:17 PM ^
Maybe it used to be easier to win in college, things have changed college is more competitive than it was just in the past 20 years.
Sabans step down to college has made him very rich 7,100,000.00 richer. He didn't make it in the Pros, maybe he didn't have enough time ( I don't recall exactly, but it seems like it was a short stint) but it wasn't a step down. Great college coaches produce great pro players.
I am a huge fan of college sports. When I see a young kid on a college team make a great play I think wow that was great great play, watching the pros when I see a great play I think well he's making millions he better be making some great plays. College Sports is fun to watch. Huge Michigan Fan, I will also watch teams from the pac, mac, big 12, etc. they are all fun to watch because they are young men still learning and honing skills and hopefully getting drafted if that is their dream.
Pros an occasional a game and then the Super Bowl Party regardless of who is playing rooting for the Patriots (yeah this is Bradys year) this year.Would love to see Tom Brady win another ring and he is playing at the top of his game right now.
My point young kids in college still learning and honing their skills are so much more fun to watch. It takes a great coach to develop these players. From the last snap of a Michigan game until the first snap of the Michigan game Labor Day Weekend I look forward to it all year. College means more to me than NFL, maybe why this is my reasoning for not seeing this as a step down in coaching.
December 26th, 2014 at 2:21 PM ^
I also prefer College Football to NFL. I will watch Michigan play before any NFL game including the Super Bowl. But that doesn't change that college football is a step down.
The NFL naysayers are saying no one would ever do that. I'm not suggesting that. As I said before, many people voluntarily take a step down in their careers.
December 26th, 2014 at 2:04 PM ^
December 26th, 2014 at 2:04 PM ^
This is not an absolute argument anymore.
Michigan, Texas, Oklahoma, ND, USC, Alabama, LSU, OSU, FSU >>>>>>>>>>Oakland, Jacksonville, Carolina, Buffalo, Cleveland
Pittsburgh, NE, Denver, GB, Dallas>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Duke, Purdue, IU, MAC
As has been previously mentioned, there is nuance to this argument today, and the money and salaries shows this clearly.
December 26th, 2014 at 2:04 PM ^
This is not an absolute argument anymore.
Michigan, Texas, Oklahoma, ND, USC, Alabama, LSU, OSU, FSU >>>>>>>>>>Oakland, Jacksonville, Carolina, Buffalo, Cleveland
Pittsburgh, NE, Denver, GB, Dallas>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Duke, Purdue, IU, MAC
As has been previously mentioned, there is nuance to this argument today, and the money and salaries shows this clearly.
December 26th, 2014 at 2:12 PM ^
Again, you are isolating certain teams to make your argument. NFL jobs are cyclical. You point out Carolina and Oakland. Those coaches still get paid millions. The coach at Rice doesn't But BOTTOM of the NFL is marginaly worse than the top of College.
If it wasn't then top college coaches wouldn't choose to go take over tire fire NFL teams, yet they constantly do.
December 26th, 2014 at 2:19 PM ^
Absolutely I am isolating to make my argument. Because my argument is very simple: the comparison is no longer absolute. Therefore, it is possible for a coach to step up from the NFL into a college job, depending upon the job.
That all NFL jobs are better than all college jobs is old thinking and no longer relevant. On the average it may be true, but it is no longer an absolute argument.
Clearly a given coach when faced with a decision of M vs. Raiders would be viewed as stepping down into the Oakland job.
December 26th, 2014 at 2:24 PM ^
Harbaugh doesn't prove the point because he is an Alum. You gave a list that included ND. If Brian Kelly chooses to take the job in Oakland then where do you stand.
Again top college coaches leave to take over tire fire NFL teams all the time. That contradicts your arguement.
December 26th, 2014 at 2:33 PM ^
You are trying to make an absolute out of something that is clearly nuanced, ,as somebody else has already pointed out.
Yes, if Kelly goes from ND to Oakland, he is stepping down - regardless of salary.
Saban stepped up from Miami to 'Bama - regardless of salary.
Carroll stepped down from USC slightly to Seattle, but after having wrecked USC and built up Seattle it is now a step up.
Again, not absolute. That's alls I a am saying.
December 26th, 2014 at 2:36 PM ^
You can't step up from the NFL to College. You can't step down from College to the NFL.
If that was the case MORE NFL coaches would STEP UP to college jobs. It's not a reality, no matter how much you want it to be.
December 26th, 2014 at 2:46 PM ^
It has happened and is a reality.
Your argument is not absolute, and you cannot prove it to be so.
Your thinking is in line with the outmoded, old NFL shield lovers who think their league if the be-all, and end-all. Not any more.
December 26th, 2014 at 2:51 PM ^
You cannot prove your theory either. I guess we are at a standstill.
December 26th, 2014 at 2:53 PM ^
The difference between us is that I am a Michigan fan first, who accepts the reality. I prefer college over the NFL. You are a blind college with a bias who refuses to accept reality for what it is. My opinion isn't blinded by my love for something, yours is.
December 26th, 2014 at 3:01 PM ^
Saban - Step up - Miami to 'Bama
December 26th, 2014 at 3:04 PM ^
It's not a step up. You can't provide anythig that says it is.
December 26th, 2014 at 3:13 PM ^
If it was then NFL coaches from OAK, CLE, CAR, NJY etc would be stepping down to take jobs at ND, MICH, TEX, ALA quite often.
Just because Bobby Petrino left ATL for ARK doesn't mean that ARK is a step above ATL. Same goes for Bama. No college job is above a pro job at the very basic level.
There are of course underlying circumstances that would cause a man to choose college over pro, but that doesnt make it a step up from pro to college.
December 26th, 2014 at 3:44 PM ^
There are currently 27 college HC who earn more money than Atlanta HC mike Smith. They are all promotions over the Atlanta job on the most basice level.
Saban from Miami to 'Bama his salary was equal at the time and now he is paid much higher than most other coaches.
Again, not absolute. Not difficult to prove.
December 26th, 2014 at 3:54 PM ^
College salaries are inflated beause of the pull from the NFL. The NFL is a for profit business. NFL teams are not going to pay $10 million for a coach when they can profit with a $4 million coach. The same does not go for college. College is a non profit, they stick everything back into the program because they don't pay out profits to anyone in particular.
As shown by the revenue stream of the worst NFL team being substantially greater than that of the best college team, college teams need to win eventually, or at least give the idea that they are trying. Pro sports teams profit by exisiting.
December 26th, 2014 at 2:46 PM ^
It has happened and is a reality.
Your argument is not absolute, and you cannot prove it to be so.
Your thinking is in line with the outmoded, old NFL shield lovers who think their league if the be-all, and end-all. Not any more.
December 26th, 2014 at 2:34 PM ^
You are trying to make an absolute out of something that is clearly nuanced, ,as somebody else has already pointed out.
Yes, if Kelly goes from ND to Oakland, he is stepping down - regardless of salary.
Saban stepped up from Miami to 'Bama - regardless of salary.
Carroll stepped down from USC slightly to Seattle, but after having wrecked USC and built up Seattle it is now a step up.
Again, not absolute. That's alls I a am saying.
December 26th, 2014 at 2:19 PM ^
Absolutely I am isolating to make my argument. Because my argument is very simple: the comparison is no longer absolute. Therefore, it is possible for a coach to step up from the NFL into a college job, depending upon the job.
That all NFL jobs are better than all college jobs is old thinking and no longer relevant. On the average it may be true, but it is no longer an absolute argument.
Clearly a given coach when faced with a decision of M vs. Raiders would be viewed as stepping down into the Oakland job.
December 26th, 2014 at 2:10 PM ^
December 26th, 2014 at 2:21 PM ^
1) The way college football has developed over the past 20 years that gap has narrowed considerably in terms of money and prestige from a coaching perspective.
2) Michigan is a far above average program in terms of prestige, resources available, name recognition if the coach is a successful one, etc.
3) Let's face it. We are talking about this from the lens of Harbaugh and his decision. Objectivity has very little weight here. The issue is, subjectively, how would Harbaugh view this choice? Particularly if the choice is consistent tire fire Oakland Raiders versus his struggling but otherwise prestigious & beloved alma mater Michigan. Other subjective issues are living arrangements (he's got like 6 kids--three young school age. One applied to Michigan's incoming class, another wants to break into coaching and could easily be hired by his dad in a new coaching regime in Ann Arbor), perceived stability perhaps as his kids go through schools for the next 5-10 years, ultimate power and control for successful coaches on campus, developing young men vs running a locker room of millionaires, etc.
Ultimately what matters is what Harbaugh views as his best choice, and individuals don't normally simply follow the most objectively prestigious option in front of them. They factor in their own personal and family needs & wants as well.
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December 26th, 2014 at 2:25 PM ^
Well said.
December 26th, 2014 at 2:27 PM ^
December 26th, 2014 at 2:35 PM ^
one of the better threads on the ramifications of Harbaugh to Michigan under these circumstances.
I think that you could see this again IF a situation similar to what happened to Jimmy Johnson in Dallas occured AND there were a high profile college job that opened up (and that would depend on the nature of the coach's contract with said pro team)
Under those circumstances, if...let's say the Oklahoma or Florida State job was open and if I were Johnson's (or fiil in the name of the NFL head coach...I'm just using Jimmy Johnson as an example) agent then, sure, I might put out some feelers and who knows what might bite.
December 26th, 2014 at 3:29 PM ^
That said, Michigan is the best place, nay, the ONLY place for Harbaugh.
It's happening.
December 26th, 2014 at 3:50 PM ^
December 26th, 2014 at 4:11 PM ^
December 26th, 2014 at 4:14 PM ^
Yet you can do nothing to substantiate your claim. John Madden would obviously disagree with you.
December 26th, 2014 at 4:56 PM ^
Let's be real here. Harbaugh was made for college football. He was trained by Bo, who also was made for college. And also Woody Hayes.